Type me? (Type me!)

[Lady Lazarus]

It's been 200 years since I made 200 threads that taught me so many things. I'm curious.

Also, this title is no ksfkfjjlcjsofpefjc,mc0w-30ie but it will have to do.

Also-also this is the only good questionnaire that isn't the one that is exclusively enneagram.

Personal concepts
1. What is beauty? What is love?
Beauty is rawness and abandon.
Love is acceptance and forgiveness.

And Derrida? Is absolutely correct.

2. What are your most important values?
Individuality, empathy, authenticity, strength, intimacy.

3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
I can’t quite make up my mind. But when I did have them with certainty, I had them because when the cosmology makes room for heaven then life is not a tragedy I was drafted into and instead becomes a prelude for something less wanting. Still, I am far too aware that it all makes little sense.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Typical. We just gain more refined ways to communicate/perform on our primal ways. And this is because we see their inherent as being very strong.

Power is being loved (here, is inserted my definition of love as stated above as well) for who I am. Then what do I possibly have to fear or feel anguish over from this world?

Interests
5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Anything. Mostly I am curious about other people however.

Literature, music, fashion, philosophy, and psychology are some of my interests.
Because they all satisfy some part of myself or another.

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
Not as a casual conversation topic. To a reasonable extent.

7. What do you think of daily chores?
To think of them would only double the pain, I prefer to space out.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
Demian, Ten Nights of Dreams, Madness and Civilization, The Red Book, Gender Trouble, Blood Meridian, Autobiography of Red, The Waves, and Adonis, Attis, Osiris.

Arrival, La Jetee, Black Swan.

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
Frustration has made me cry. But I rarely ever cry.

I smile a lot, I’m not a very serious person although I think I kind of come off that way in text form sometimes. I’m kind of easily amused.

Why? Because I am far better at pretending I am human than Mark Zuckerberg.

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
I never feel a sense of belonging but I always feel at one with my environment.

Evaluation & Behaviour
11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
Sensitivity, Insensitivity, moodiness, laziness, dramaticism, hostility, defiance, self-pity, reclusiveness, obsessiveness.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
Passion, honesty, easy-going, creativity, humor.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
Someone teach me how to cook.

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Well, I exist, so...yes. Some of the causes were too many deaths. My reaction was catatonia.

People & Interactions
15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
From a very young age I have not been able to stand people who are not genuine.
So, I like people who are genuine.

Um...potentially all of them.

16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I can’t feel attracted to someone sexually without being attracted to them romantically as well and I can’t feel romantically attracted to someone without it resulting in sexual attraction. I also don't think my sexuality is at all performative. Which makes perfect sense given what I know I do not want through its expression.

I need someone who will not try to protect me but will instead know that what I need is for them to support/encourage me. I also need someone who is as sensitive to intimacy as I am and therefore wants to have something greater and more perduring together than what we have as individuals. And lastly, I need someone who is more adventurous than I am because I’m not a troublemaker, I’m an opportunist.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
I would want them to understand it’s always best to be themselves and I would want them to become an accepting person.

I wouldn’t judge them on things I perceived as being more definite manifestations of their personality and I would attempt to get them to ask themselves why people or things are the way they are instead of doing something like categorizing them into bad and good.

Because possessing both of these attributes will give them a better shot at being happy than not possessing them would.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Inwardly I would feel curious and outwardly I would either ask them questions about it or present my side. I may be forceful depending on periphery factors I perceive though.

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
Hmm. I don’t think about society too much outside of maybe microcosm ways that aren’t on purpose. So I almost feel like I don’t have one. I don’t even use slang like most others my age do, it feels very “not me” and I always feel out of the loop. There’s also nothing I hate more than the fact that being hired anywhere requires you to use your connections, I want to be evaluated solely for my own merits...

I see people as often disappointing.

Donald Trump.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I just feel drawn to certain people and even when they’re bad for me, I can’t stay away from them. I like a person for the unique occurrence they are and much like my romantic attractions, it’s very individualized.

I tend to feel afraid of seeming as invested in others as I am because I spent a good portion of adolescence feeling unwanted so, I can seem distant and like I don’t like the people I most like sometimes due to my uncertainty.

I tend to tease my friends a lot but in my old age, I also have grown to feel compelled to exhibit slightly nurturing tendencies toward my friends. Or at least I try to help them with my understandings of them and what they may need. Although I’m not really a good person to be friends with because I can be a total jerk sometimes as well.

21. How do you behave around strangers?
I’m a little more quiet and aloof around strangers unless we have an objective.

 

[Forever]

COOL

ISFP seems right, but don’t let type be the end all for you. For good friends like you, I ignore type really. I usually use type for people who I don’t know well or try to avoid which is counterproductive to waste time with haha

 

[Lady Lazarus]

COOL

ISFP seems right, but don’t let type be the end all for you. For good friends like you, I ignore type really. I usually use type for people who I don’t know well or try to avoid which is counterproductive to waste time with haha

But I'm so lame!

Aww, thanks. Yeah, I don't really take type very seriously. And lol, I appreciate the typing anyway.

 

[Lord Lavender]

I'm seeing a lot of Fi/Ni as well as a healthy dose of Se so ISFP fits well. Tritype 4w5 5w6 9w8 Sx/Sp.

 

[Metis]

459?

469?

- - - Updated - - -

Tritype 4w5 5w6 9w8 Sx/Sp.

I was thinking 459 as well.

 

[Metis]

But I'm so lame!

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I've always wondered: What lead you away from typing as a core 4? And why Sx/Sp over Sp/Sx? I just want to hear your thought process.

I'll go from there.

 

[Hiraeth]

Based on this questionnaire, your whole aura screams 4, quite honestly. If I didn't know you, I would have said 4w5 sx, no questions asked. There is way more of a dramatized intensity at play rather than an airy lightness found in 9s, moreso than even an sx 9, imo. Your feelings as well as interests have this otherworldliness that is most commonly found in 4s. And your most important values are all 4 stereotypes without a peace-driven 9 desire in sight.

Besides that, a lot of your forum posts have this 4ish quality about them too. Even if it's not your core, it's definitely a very close fix. I wouldn't flinch if you changed it.

For MBTI, a very Fi-Ni introverted ISFP.

 

[Norrsken]

I was so close to giving you the INFP typing, but the way you write certain things so eloquently that is hard to put into words seem like tertiary Ni to me. The part of you being comfortably a part of your environment also seems like Se to me, so, ISFP would be the better choice here. Lucky you! ISFPs really are a fascinating bunch.

Enneagram wise, I agree with the others and say you are a core 4w5, I can't see the more flamboyant 4w3 for you, a lot of what you write has a distant scholarly vibe to it that the 3 just wouldn't make sense. I may argue core 5w4 or 5w6 as well, but tell me what you think by these lists I found online below:

Type 5
Key Traits
​

• Defence mechanism: Isolation, deal with anxiety by isolating feelings from thoughts
• Thinking: cognitive orientation, replace living with reading, mental classification/organization, connect with others through sharing knowledge
• Emotional Detachment: unconscious interference with the generation of feelings
• Fear of Engulfment: hold onto boundaries, fear of being "used up" by others
• Autonomy: self-sufficiency rationalizes their distancing from others
• Hypersensitivity: they detach from emotional pain because they are so sensitive to it inside, guarding against loneliness, fear, emptiness
• Shadow/Lost Self: blind spot to their emotions and ability to love
• Core fears: Intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, annihilation, not existing, obligation
• Passion: Avarice, hoarding of ourselves, our time, our energy, or our things, to avoid depletion, fearful grasping of time, space, and energy
• Fixations: Stinginess, detachment
• Want: Discovery

Comparisons with other types
5 vs 4: Fives periodically feel overwhelmed by their emotions and have to detach from them while fours are at home in their emotions and can't amplify them enough.

Type 4
Key Traits

• Defence mechanism: Introjection, taking another person inside the self to control it, ex. if someone criticizes you, you criticize yourself
• Inferior self image: envy means that others are good and the self is lacking
• Focus on suffering: attracting love though pain, hoping someone will notice and help, also staying disappointed to avoid the shock of inevitable disappointment
• Emotional Sensitivity and Empathic Ability: feel emotions deeply that other types avoid like hate/anger/melancholy, dramatize small problems, empathetically offer emotional support
• Aesthetic sensibility: artistic process is a way of communicating authentic truth, love of beauty
• Push-Pull Relationship Pattern: idealize loved one at a distance, but focuses on what is missing when loved one is present, addicted to longing for something else
• Shadow/Lost self: can't always access their positive self-image, can't see that they have what others have and that they are deserving of love
• Core Fears: Being inadequate, ordinary, flawed, abandoned​
• Passion: Envy, frustration over not being enough, worrying that others “got a better deal,” shame
• Fixations: Melancholy, Dissatisfaction, Disappointment
• Want: Depth

Comparisons with other types
4 vs 5: Fours are in the feeling triad so feelings are their home base unlike fives who have to periodically detach from them to prevent from feeling overwhelmed.

Which sounds most like you?

Tritype wise, I can very much see 459 or 549, 4w5-5w6-9w8 or 5w6-4w5-9w8. You seem too soft for a 8w9 typing, but that could just be what I'm seeing from your posts. You may very well be 8w9 in person than you are on text, but for now, I can agree with 9w8, just not as your core. The 4 in you is just.. screaming from everything you wrote in the questionnaire that it's hard to ignore it.

459, 495, 549, 594, 945, 954
Nicknames: The Withdrawn, The Contemplation Pool, The Fetus, The Wilting Life

Life Purpose: To delve deeply into the mysteries of life and share it with others, a philosopher, want to write about and discuss your discoveries with others, never ending quest to make sense of your world

Blind Spot: To focused on inner world, inhibited, indifferent to others, insecure, moody, expect others to initiate and come to you

Traits: Intuitive, knowledgeable, accepting, original, wise, peaceful, self-aware, reflective, shy, reserved, self-conscious, need regular quiet time to reflect on thoughts/emotions, easily flooded with emotion, difficult for you to voice your ideals/feelings. The 459 is the most reclusive type on the Enneagram. They are humble, modest and discreet. They can be ethereal and dreamy They are passive and unassertive. They are shy but usually display a pleasant countenance. They have complex inner worlds. the objective with the subjective. They are gentle, sensitive and avoidant. Since they are so reserved, they express their anger in a passive-aggressive manner. Their withdrawal and withholding feels harsh or very uninvolved. Naturally reserved and reflective, you see yourself as intuitive, introspective, perceptive and thoughtful. Responsible and diligent, you resist taking action that is not first well considered and thought out. You dislike making sudden changes and prefer to take time to think things through before acting. When opposed, you tend to take a step back or move away from others to evaluate your circumstances to manage problems. A true introvert. The withdrawn likes to delve within them self in order to release their tensions and stress. The more problems that arise in their life, the further they find themselves from the external world.

Instinctual wise, well, I'll be honest, you can be a bit hard to know and that could be because you may be an Sp dominant type. Social norms be damned, at least to you, so I wager you are So blind. Sp/Sx therefore would make the most sense. Sx/Sp people would be more likely to continuously reach out to a special someone or something to get heavily entangled with because of their Sx intensity, but with you, you're more caution driven and careful with who you cast out your net.

This was fun and thank you for the thread tag.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I'm seeing a lot of Fi/Ni as well as a healthy dose of Se so ISFP fits well. Tritype 4w5 5w6 9w8 Sx/Sp.

Well, Jar Jar don't you look lovely today. I'm a proud mother, walking 100 steps to hatch your pokemon egg was definitely worth it. 10/10 would do that again.

That aside, I'm glad to have your stamp of health.

459?

469?

- - - Updated - - -



I was thinking 459 as well.

Thanks for the videos, I've only seen the 469 one due to narrowing things before coming across them. I relate more to the latter than the former, just because there is a lot more discomfort in the seeker and that matches my experience of life.

<3

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I've always wondered: What lead you away from typing as a core 4? And why Sx/Sp over Sp/Sx? I just want to hear your thought process.

I'll go from there.

Don't read my novel PD, it's just like Twilight.

Like most teenage girls I once thought I was INFP 4w5 sx/sp because I was (am?) weird and creepy. But we all know that if I were actually INFP, I would be better at coming up with thread titles.

Anyway, when I was a teenaged girl on this website who came on here to fight with everyone for reasons I can't really remember I did identify with a lot of the 4's symptoms but deep down did not identify with the root of those symptoms, AKA an excessively strong sense of self, which is why I would make 200 threads like this in order to make people reassure me of my identity attachments and therefore essentially tell me who I am.

Someone eventually suggested e9 to me after the 197th thread and of course I was like "hell no" initially because to this day I still don't relate to most of the other 9's. Especially not when they talk about how they got overlooked as children, I was (and possibly still am?) actually kind of a bitch as a kid so I don't identify with most of their experiences. And I still don't relate to all of the non-subtype/general e9 descriptions and like, social 9 descriptions. I wanted to understand this suggestion though (apparently the fact that I'm generally a reasonable person is very e9 of me) so I did research over the years that is now this excessively synthesized, jumbled mess in my head. Eventually I began to understand that I am in fact a 9 in a way that is highly reflected in my feelings of not having any real idea how to have desires of my own and for myself. 13 years of my life are essentially me trying to be what the first person I loved and did not love me thought I should be. Without this I feel directionless and like I don't have a good grasp of how to have desires that are really purely my own. I can be passionate and all of that but it feels confused and directionless without that. Like screaming into a void. The location of my psuedo-identity here is why I chose sx/sp 9 instead of sp/sx 9.

At this point I see how there is a lot more nuance to the way I relate to e9 than they way I can relate to some aspects of 4. As Lotus astutely pointed out, I can connect to 4's stereotype and I would indeed fall into it a lot. However, the way I relate to 9 transcends stereotypes into something more complicated and is much more reflective of the way typology can be applied to a human because of its complexity.

With regards to sp/sx 4 specifically, because they're the countertype I kind of align them with cp6's as people who bark loudly without biting but want to be told it's ok to not do that. But whereas 6's want to be told it's ok to let things go and be calm (9), I think sp 4 wants to be told it's ok to be as sensitive of a person as they are deep down. I'm actually not an excessively sensitive person deep down, instead I'm kind of blunt and hard inside but these things aren't obscuring one another the way it works for cp6 and sp4, instead they're in tension with one another due to my anxiety. To illustrate with an anecdote, when I was first dating my first boyfriend my mother tried to keep him away from me because of how emotionally unstable I was as a teenager and the fact that she was afraid he was going to take advantage of that. As a teenager I never spoke to my mother about my romantic relationships because once again, ugh teenagers, but as an adult I did retrospectively and after I told her what our relationship was actually like she said something completely different. She said that all along she should have been trying to protect him from me. She said that I can seem really delicate on the outside but when it comes down to it, I am strong on the inside. So with sp 4 it's like we have similar elements in play but the way they're arranged is in fact opposite. By which I mean, what I want to be told is that it's ok to be is strong/agressive-ish, not that it's ok to be weak.

The time I cracked a little at the other LL over this typing was partially due to stress and partially because I hate being told I'm an obvious anything (I also hate telling others they're obvious either because people aren't) so clearly I should stay away from typology lol.

I hope this makes sense. It was extremely difficult to answer this, especially while trying to be not even less succint than this, and I still feel like this isn't perfectly reflective of my experience.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Based on this questionnaire, your whole aura screams 4, quite honestly. If I didn't know you, I would have said 4w5 sx, no questions asked. There is way more of a dramatized intensity at play rather than an airy lightness found in 9s, moreso than even an sx 9, imo. Your feelings as well as interests have this otherworldliness that is most commonly found in 4s. And your most important values are all 4 stereotypes without a peace-driven 9 desire in sight.

Besides that, a lot of your forum posts have this 4ish quality about them too. Even if it's not your core, it's definitely a very close fix. I wouldn't flinch if you changed it.

For MBTI, a very Fi-Ni introverted ISFP.

Yeah, I think my emotional stuff is mostly in the realms of anger and anxiety though. Once a long time ago I told my sister I was a peacemaker and she laughed at me! I don't relate to that e9 archetype of "peacemaker" at all, but someone suggested that's because I have a line to counterphobia. When I do act like a pushover I obsess over it and I feel like I can't be fine until I "redeem" myself to myself. So basically that 5% counterphobia link won't let me exist comfortably, it's fun. I do get tired of fighting though and am in the end perhaps too willing to sue for peace. I also think fighting over certain things is stupid and too much work so I will let them go. Anyway, I think "seeker" would be a better title for e9 but they apparently just named every type after their coping mechanism.

I actually think being depressed during the 2 year phase of catatonia helped me learn not to be so dramatic, as bad as that sounds lol. Before that I was more like that. So now I'm not usually like that but I still generally have trouble controlling my emotions too well. But right now I'm more inbetween the overly emotional of before depression and the flat, zombie quality of depression. As I mentioned in one of our convos before, I don't really indentify with the indifference a lot of 9's exhibit. It's more like I usually don't know how to express some things.

But I also think it's because my stronger emotions tend to be "disembodied" and almost guttural. I don't have the refinement you guys have, I'm more basic and I also think I hold these values almost instinctively because I don't understand myself or who I am.

But yeah, I do think it's my second strongest fix because I relate to the head triad types least of all. The way I exist seems so different from the way they do.

Thank you for the typing, you mentioned some really insightful things.

 

[❀༺♥༻ℭ𝔞𝔢𝔩𝔦𝔞_𝔄𝔦𝔰𝔩𝔦𝔫𝔤༺♥༻❀༺]

I think ISFP suits you really well. I dont see you as any other type. Enneagram wise, here's some stuff on 469 since you said you relate to it more ^^ And sexual 4s, as a variant enneagram combo, that helped me figure out my core enneagram and my variants

Organically Written • Enneagram Tritype 469 - The Seeker

[Enneagram Type 4] Sexual Four description (according to Beatrice Chestnut).

[Enneagram Type 9] Sexual Nines (according to Beatrice Chestnut)

 

[Hiraeth]

Yeah, I think my emotional stuff is mostly in the realms of anger and anxiety though. Once a long time ago I told my sister I was a peacemaker and she laughed at me! I don't relate to that e9 archetype of "peacemaker" at all, but someone suggested that's because I have a line to counterphobia. When I do act like a pushover I obsess over it and I feel like I can't be fine until I "redeem" myself to myself. So basically that 5% counterphobia link won't let me exist comfortably, it's fun. I do get tired of fighting though and am in the end perhaps too willing to sue for peace. I also think fighting over certain things is stupid and too much work so I will let them go. Anyway, I think "seeker" would be a better title for e9 but they apparently just named every type after their coping mechanism.

I actually think being depressed during the 2 year phase of catatonia helped me learn not to be so dramatic, as bad as that sounds lol. Before that I was more like that. So now I'm not usually like that but I still generally have trouble controlling my emotions too well. But right now I'm more inbetween the overly emotional of before depression and the flat, zombie quality of depression. As I mentioned in one of our convos before, I don't really indentify with the indifference a lot of 9's exhibit. It's more like I usually don't know how to express some things.

But I also think it's because my stronger emotions tend to be "disembodied" and almost guttural. I don't have the refinement you guys have, I'm more basic and I also think I hold these values almost instinctively because I don't understand myself or who I am.

But yeah, I do think it's my second strongest fix because I relate to the head triad types least of all. The way I exist seems so different from the way they do.

Thank you for the typing, you mentioned some really insightful things.

Don't 4s also seek answers in order to find their inner calling? I feel the identification becomes apparent only after they find themselves, otherwise they still feel lost about who they are. So they can be without an identity as well if they haven't crossed that line yet.

The 9's repression makes sense, but it's kind of perplexing because your desires align so perfectly with a 4's. I always thought that was the most significant part of the enneagram too. My sister is also a 9 and she doesn't have that sense of self either, but I don't think she cares much about 4ish concerns like individuality and authenticity. Then again I don't think she has 4 in her tritype, so that probably adds to the difference as well.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I was so close to giving you the INFP typing, but the way you write certain things so eloquently that is hard to put into words seem like tertiary Ni to me. The part of you being comfortably a part of your environment also seems like Se to me, so, ISFP would be the better choice here. Lucky you! ISFPs really are a fascinating bunch.

Thanks, I do like some of the other ISFP's on this website, so I agree.

Enneagram wise, I agree with the others and say you are a core 4w5, I can't see the more flamboyant 4w3 for you, a lot of what you write has a distant scholarly vibe to it that the 3 just wouldn't make sense. I may argue core 5w4 or 5w6 as well, but tell me what you think by these lists I found online below:

Which sounds most like you?

Agreed, I'm not influenced by 3 at all. The 4 list sounds a little like me. But neither one fits too well. I actually think head types are the types I least relate to because they seem the least naturally human of all, and I feel like I'm a very natural human on the usual. Their detachment when regarding the day to day and their type of anxiety both feel foreign to me.

I think my posts are just so precise and complex because when you major in Lit they force you to explain absolutely everything in great detail and take on weird angles for the sake of not having to read about the same thing for the nine thousandth time so I think that's where the scholarly thing plays in.

Anyway, can I ask where you found these? I haven't seen these in particular before (maybe I just don't remember?) but I like them. They're well organized.

Tritype wise, I can very much see 459 or 549, 4w5-5w6-9w8 or 5w6-4w5-9w8. You seem too soft for a 8w9 typing, but that could just be what I'm seeing from your posts. You may very well be 8w9 in person than you are on text, but for now, I can agree with 9w8, just not as your core. The 4 in you is just.. screaming from everything you wrote in the questionnaire that it's hard to ignore it.

Haha, it's ok, I'm not more like an 8w9 in person at all. I think I'm probably even less intimidating in person than in text. I'm like a thousand times more easy-going than they are from what I've seen.

Instinctual wise, well, I'll be honest, you can be a bit hard to know and that could be because you may be an Sp dominant type. Social norms be damned, at least to you, so I wager you are So blind. Sp/Sx therefore would make the most sense. Sx/Sp people would be more likely to continuously reach out to a special someone or something to get heavily entangled with because of their Sx intensity, but with you, you're more caution driven and careful with who you cast out your net.

Lol, yes that's me. I should probably read how to win friends and influence people.
Ah, yes, sorry about that. I am very withdrawn IRL too but sometimes I have strong streaks of sociability.
I actually suspect my social anxiety gets in the way of being sx/sp but then again I could see how sp/sx would lend itself to exhibiting that sort of thing in the first place but that's all very complicated.

This was fun and thank you for the thread tag.

And thank you for the typing, I like your format and style. It's very clean.

 

[Norrsken]

[MENTION=22089]Lady Lazarus[/MENTION]

Oh honey, don't apologize! I greatly appreciate you for who you are as a person and the strong introvert that you are. That book by Dale Carnegie is a really good one, but I don't want you to think you are flawed in some way, you know? I like you very much so, and you are already such a sweetheart anyway!

The website is called The Enneagram of Personality Joseph Simone and I really love it for its clean organization and how nicely put together it looks. It has all things enneagram related and definitely worth checking out when you have the time. Lots of information in general packed in one website, and I especially love the archetypes descriptions for all the tritypes. It's how I found yours.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Don't read my novel PD, it's just like Twilight.

Like most teenage girls I once thought I was INFP 4w5 sx/sp because I was (am?) weird and creepy. But we all know that if I were actually INFP, I would be better at coming up with thread titles.

Anyway, when I was a teenaged girl on this website who came on here to fight with everyone for reasons I can't really remember I did identify with a lot of the 4's symptoms but deep down did not identify with the root of those symptoms, AKA an excessively strong sense of self, which is why I would make 200 threads like this in order to make people reassure me of my identity attachments and therefore essentially tell me who I am.

Someone eventually suggested e9 to me after the 197th thread and of course I was like "hell no" initially because to this day I still don't relate to most of the other 9's. Especially not when they talk about how they got overlooked as children, I was (and possibly still am?) actually kind of a bitch as a kid so I don't identify with most of their experiences. And I still don't relate to all of the non-subtype/general e9 descriptions and like, social 9 descriptions. I wanted to understand this suggestion though (apparently the fact that I'm generally a reasonable person is very e9 of me) so I did research over the years that is now this excessively synthesized, jumbled mess in my head. Eventually I began to understand that I am in fact a 9 in a way that is highly reflected in my feelings of not having any real idea how to have desires of my own and for myself. 13 years of my life are essentially me trying to be what the first person I loved and did not love me thought I should be. Without this I feel directionless and like I don't have a good grasp of how to have desires that are really purely my own. I can be passionate and all of that but it feels confused and directionless without that. Like screaming into a void. The location of my psuedo-identity here is why I chose sx/sp 9 instead of sp/sx 9.

At this point I see how there is a lot more nuance to the way I relate to e9 than they way I can relate to some aspects of 4. As Lotus astutely pointed out, I can connect to 4's stereotype and I would indeed fall into it a lot. However, the way I relate to 9 transcends stereotypes into something more complicated and is much more reflective of the way typology can be applied to a human because of its complexity.

With regards to sp/sx 4 specifically, because they're the countertype I kind of align them with cp6's as people who bark loudly without biting but want to be told it's ok to not do that. But whereas 6's want to be told it's ok to let things go and be calm (9), I think sp 4 wants to be told it's ok to be as sensitive of a person as they are deep down. I'm actually not an excessively sensitive person deep down, instead I'm kind of blunt and hard inside but these things aren't obscuring one another the way it works for cp6 and sp4, instead they're in tension with one another due to my anxiety. To illustrate with an anecdote, when I was first dating my first boyfriend my mother tried to keep him away from me because of how emotionally unstable I was as a teenager and the fact that she was afraid he was going to take advantage of that. As a teenager I never spoke to my mother about my romantic relationships because once again, ugh teenagers, but as an adult I did retrospectively and after I told her what our relationship was actually like she said something completely different. She said that all along she should have been trying to protect him from me. She said that I can seem really delicate on the outside but when it comes down to it, I am strong on the inside. So with sp 4 it's like we have similar elements in play but the way they're arranged is in fact opposite. By which I mean, what I want to be told is that it's ok to be is strong/agressive-ish, not that it's ok to be weak.

The time I cracked a little at the other LL over this typing was partially due to stress and partially because I hate being told I'm an obvious anything (I also hate telling others they're obvious either because people aren't) so clearly I should stay away from typology lol.

I hope this makes sense. It was extremely difficult to answer this, especially while trying to be not even less succint than this, and I still feel like this isn't perfectly reflective of my experience.

I'll come back with a more detailed response when I have time (bug me if I don't), but I just wanted to say that it's actually a bit of a misunderstanding that 4s know exactly who they are. In fact, they can only build an identity based on comparisons with others, and they evolve a lot over time, molding themselves into who they want or don't want to be.

 

[The Cat]

I think ISFP suits you well Lady L.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Don't 4s also seek answers in order to find their inner calling? I feel the identification becomes apparent only after they find themselves, otherwise they still feel lost about who they are. So they can be without an identity as well if they haven't crossed that line yet.

The 9's repression makes sense, but it's kind of perplexing because your desires align so perfectly with a 4's. I always thought that was the most significant part of the enneagram too. My sister is also a 9 and she doesn't have that sense of self either, but I don't think she cares much about 4ish concerns like individuality and authenticity. Then again I don't think she has 4 in her tritype, so that probably adds to the difference as well.

From my understanding, all of the types in the 469 tritype are seekers but I think 9 most seeks with an inclination to existence itself. For example, for me, procuring my identity would make it possible for me to consistently even exist for myself even before it would make it possible to consistently orient myself in the world. So it's like someone cut my tether to my self more than someone pushed me really far away from my self but my tether remained. And the act of finding a calling as a way to find oneself kind of feels more like it carries the implication of even a vauge sense of an identity (preferences for example) whereas for a 9 I think even the vaugest sense of that is abscent. In other words, I feel like 4's do have some sense of who they are and it is just significantly developed and refined through things like what you mentioned. I think I may have misunderstood some of 4's problems as meaning that vauge starting point implied an almost excessively defined self though I guess that's not true. I guess it's malliable and not necessarily exact, but, it feels more coherent than any way a 9 could be before integration. So it's like 9's don't even realize there's a line to cross or that they're people and sometimes it feels like they've forgotten they even exist. So it's like 9's seek answers to find out that they are by finding out how they are then they can actually move into realizing there's a line and crossing it. (I feel like I moved too far from the point...)

I don't know if it's also because I'm an sx 9? (Unless you're sister is also an sx 9) Because in order to make real connections with people, you have to be authentic with them and similarly, you have to be an individual.

 

[Hiraeth]

From my understanding, all of the types in the 469 tritype are seekers but I think 9 most seeks with an inclination to existence itself. For example, for me, procuring my identity would make it possible for me to consistently even exist for myself even before it would make it possible to consistently orient myself in the world. So it's like someone cut my tether to my self more than someone pushed me really far away from my self but my tether remained. And the act of finding a calling as a way to find oneself kind of feels more like it carries the implication of even a vauge sense of an identity (preferences for example) whereas for a 9 I think even the vaugest sense of that is abscent. In other words, I feel like 4's do have some sense of who they are and it is just significantly developed and refined through things like what you mentioned. I think I may have misunderstood some of 4's problems as meaning that vauge starting point implied an almost excessively defined self though I guess that's not true. I guess it's malliable and not necessarily exact, but, it feels more coherent than any way a 9 could be before integration. So it's like 9's don't even realize there's a line to cross or that they're people and sometimes it feels like they've forgotten they even exist. So it's like 9's seek answers to find out that they are by finding out how they are then they can actually move into realizing there's a line and crossing it. (I feel like I moved too far from the point...)

I don't know if it's also because I'm an sx 9? (Unless you're sister is also an sx 9) Because in order to make real connections with people, you have to be authentic with them and similarly, you have to be an individual.

Oh, that makes sense now. So you're saying a 4 would have at least level one figured out and a 9 would still be at ground zero? It's true that I did have sort of an idea at first, but it was more like me trying on different suits until I found the right one that fit best. And then I'd customize it as I go.

Actually, that does sound a lot like my sister. The thing with her is that she's always talked about not having a real identity, but it never really bothered her. At least as much as it would with me, since I know that would be the bane of my existence. I'd be searching frantically for that something that can be used symbolically for myself, as that's what gives me a reason to live. I'm not sure if my sister is an sx first, but I know she at least has it second in her stacking.

Sometimes I wonder if we make this WAY more complicated than it is.