How does this sound like ?

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Hello,

I have a bit of trouble to find my type even though tests seem to converge (I will not tell you because it will introduce bias and I probably biased myself the result by answering what I want to look like).
Thanks in advance.

I am a 26 years old data scientist working in France and I studied maths then engeeneering then business (double degree). I did this because I want to work on projects which involve strategy and where I can actually influence a company future. Despite being very shy and somewhat clueless in social things, I usually expect to have an influaential role on a company and somewhat to "be the best".

At work, I usually like to work on massive projects I take care by myself (from conception to execution minus "low value" tasks like normalizing data, connecting it to the server and so on...i.e. as soon as my solution proves to have good validated (by operational people) results, I tend to be reluctant in the next cleaning steps even though I judge my program well organized and production ready.
On the other hand, I tend to do "low value" stuff because I want to reach a better role in my company. My ideal role would be an external consultant who provide solution and give directions while also actually building solutions by myself.
Telling me to adapt someone's work is less appealing to me and I end up generally putting my own style on code and adopting a "proprietary" philosophy of coding.

What I HATE in work is :

- discussing theory to challenge my idea before it has be done (if it works, there is no need to prove it theoritically)
- following the "classical" way when I judge the steps waste of time compared to the benefit expected
- work meeting

In general, I am a developper 80% of the time and I like it because it helps me materialize a solution but I am not at all into "geek" things. I dislike discussing coding in a theoritical way (when I read a documentation or speak to someone, I just think "Ok what is the use of it ? Cannot they show a ****** example and speak in a simple, concrete way ?" ( I learn by trying a lot and reto-engineering code). I usually learn code fast but I am slow to use the "coding language".
On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).

Apart from that, I am generally very stressed ans anxious at work. I think about consequences of my actions which make me doubt. I am so on the same time quite sure and directed on my work referential but very insecure on the inside ("maybe they will not use it or discard it". While not stressed (it is not that common !), I am pretty careless of the etiquette.

My problem solving style is always directed into finding a concept of solution (more than a really precise one : I see clearly how curves will move and process will go but implementation details can be reviewed during implementation). I like to materialize the problem by drawing matrices, plotting by hand, and so on... While alone, I also think out loud. I have also a roadmap sometimes like "ok The V1 will be this, this will do the job and have sufficient efficiency for the beginning, the V2 will add this ..." and so my V1 is ready for V2 addition before V2 has already begun.


On a more personnal level, I like to tease people I know like my girlfriend of my parents. I say things like "do you remember when X has done this..." to trigger a conflict (a conflict I judge funny but not on a serious subject). I am very childish in the close private sphere and somewhat obssessive around things which - I guess - people will not expect from what I appear usually. I like to imagine conversations, stupid thinks like "imagine my boss will tell me "this is your new job, you replace the dog"", playing with plushes. I am impatient and impulsive. When I have an idea, I stay obsessed by it and want to do it so I buy it (goid to theme park, ski). When someone tell me "you cannot do it", I try to prove him wrong (eating a big chili pepper, going out dressed very oddly, ...).

I would say that I love "adventure" but on the other hand I am quite anxious and physically sensitive so I procrastinate on things I judge "dangerous".

When in love, I can do completely crazy things like going on another country to execute my plan (I succeed once) and become bery romantic. While am I very practical at work, I also enjoy fundamental things like litterature, language and mathématics. I am very competitive around these topics (and others) and so dedicate to it until overdose (in the past, I wanted to become a master in French to performn in society and so I read many books, wrote down vocabulary with extreme semantics details and so on). During my adolescent phase (16-20), I was howver of the "poet" type (reading clasical romantic books, writing books, seeing the world as doomed, imagining me as a kind of dark knight, etc.) and wanted to leave engineering (my pragmatical part told me otherwise).
I am very concerned to expressing ideas and thoughts in the more accurate way possible.

I generally want to do many things and end up doing not that mluch because my time is short and I prefer doing nothing that doing it half. This frustratres me.

Here are also some random insights :

- I am somewhat paranoïd (in a sane way but I imagine hidden agenda everywhere)
- I do not like people stating problems and complaining about it without proposing solutions
- I HATE when people state judgements and then retreat when - angry - I told them to support their thinking, I can become very arrogant and angry at these moments
- I do not like people having an opinion and so accepting verything related instead of considering cases separately given context
- I can cry easily and I see pros and cons to be seen crying
- I am not able to relax, almost never
- I do not like sanbox games, an action must have a mean else it is waste of time
- I challenge mainstream ideas and HATE when people tell me "we do it because thie is the way to do/ because it is polite/ etc." (I consider it hypocrisy or pointless actions)
- I usually value PERSONNAL points on view as long as they are not stating something as truth (I consider that there is no truth about everything). I love the ones who gives a "color" of their judgement instead of prosaic material
- I HATE people who speak about the director of a movie instead of the movie itself to defend it (I do not care about who done what, I care about the "what")
- I can in some way be "influenced" easily by esoteric thinking since there is no proff it is wrong. I do not think it is true but it might be. I so had a hard time with Tarot since I could'nt prove it wrong and these cards have a lot of allegory inside which helps to make decisions. I am not a real "religious" person but somehow I seek to find meaning in an general way of thinking
- I am of "all or nothing"
- I prefer seeing a word, an idea as a painting than on a single point (I do not like synonyms because they do not capture meaningful differences, I do not like putting judgement everywhere when it is not justified and does not add value - destroys it instead)

 

[Pionart]

Talks about:

Ni - processes in time
Te - "provide solution and give directions"
Fi - talking about likes/dislikes
Se - "My problem solving style is..." etc.

(Ne - "Here are also some random insights" , afterthought rather than conclusion, so I would say it's not in the main stack)

So my vote is INTJ.

Also, data science is the area I am looking to go into! I study maths, largely because I found it the easiest subject for me to stick with, but I enjoy anything abstract.

What do you think of a Feeling type going into data science? I'm unsure if I will be satisfied with it since I can't align my values with it too easily, and also I'm not great with computers. :/

 

[Butze]

On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).

My INTJ boyfriend would spend hours and energies talking about inconsistencies in a movies, he would be outraged if physics wasn't respected in making a scene etc.
Also I've seen something looking like Si and Ti... couldn't he be INTP?

 

[Keila]

I like to imagine conversations, stupid thinks like "imagine my boss will tell me "this is your new job, you replace the dog"", playing with plushes. I am impatient and impulsive.

This wreaks of Ne and that last part seems anti-J

I am somewhat paranoïd (in a sane way but I imagine hidden agenda everywhere)

That looks Ne as well.

In general, I am a developper 80% of the time and I like it because it helps me materialize a solution but I am not at all into "geek" things. I dislike discussing coding in a theoritical way (when I read a documentation or speak to someone, I just think "Ok what is the use of it ? Cannot they show a ****** example and speak in a simple, concrete way ?" ( I learn by trying a lot and reto-engineering code). I usually learn code fast but I am slow to use the "coding language".
On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).

My problem solving style is always directed into finding a concept of solution (more than a really precise one : I see clearly how curves will move and process will go but implementation details can be reviewed during implementation). I like to materialize the problem by drawing matrices, plotting by hand, and so on... While alone, I also think out loud. I have also a roadmap sometimes like "ok The V1 will be this, this will do the job and have sufficient efficiency for the beginning, the V2 will add this ..." and so my V1 is ready for V2 addition before V2 has already begun.

This kinda strikes me as Ti-Ne..with Ti being in the lead because of focusing less on the theoretical.

I find that I always want to ask Ti-potentials if they enjoy jigsaw puzzles. >.>

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Thanks for your reply !

For The first guy (sorry I am on mobile mode and cannot de your post while typing) :

Even of I am Data Scientist, I do ont think I am the traditionnal one compared to other people in my teams so I may not provide you a real overview of the field.
For my point of view, there are two important things to ne effective fie fulfilling this role : open-mindness and operational thinking. To sum up, it is like being a modeler who seek to represent reality using mathematical tool and being eager to do not have preconception around which method should address this kind of problem.
In a way, the best is to see maths as a tool and not as a truth holder. I would say emotion can carry some opinion on solution which I like more than general solutions which are not contextual.
Many of my colleagues are more on the reverse way of thinking and I know one who produce I think better solutions at the end of the day but makes a lot more time to make it work...when it works !

---

Regarding my typing, I doubt I am really an INTP since I have no real inner logic. I am more of a contextual thinker.
Taking the example of logic in entairtainment movie (or Sci Fi/esoteric ones), I do not like talking about it since I actually do not care and I think this is waste of time since this is not the aim and the framework of the movie (the aim is just to entairtain).
When seeking out something in movies, I am more of getting the global smell of the movie : either a sensory one or a insight or a kind of "meaning" or a lesson.
I relate more to Ni in a way that I see my mind as a collection of unordered paradigms which can contradict themselves but which can all have practical use even used in combination. I would even say that I not even see them as paradigms but as continuous yet volatile component of an inner see.
I do accept rhetoric and finds it funny since I generally finds more the result than the correctness. I like pointing out inconsistencies in reasonning but more for the purpose of "winning".
I think I also hold a LOT of contradictions in myself and find it natural since they are not on the same world. Like I hate pure philosophers but end up being a kind of one sometimes. I cannot stand pointless movies but like Jackass. This appears contradictory to people I relate but for me it is normal since there are hidden contextual beliefs behind (it has more to do generally with values than pure logic even if I try to explain it to myself and others in terms of logic).
So here is the spoiler : I generally type as INTJ (obviously very turbulent). I generally do not relate well with INTP in terms of functions since I do not feel any Ti in me (apart from occasional use of it). I think as young I played with Tx on a blog on pointless topics but I usually do not LIKE to think that much (gives me headaches).
I would more eventually refer to shy ENTP but it seems unlikely.
I do not really care about precise typing (reality is continuous afterall, it is pointless to model it as exclusive classes apart from production purposes) but I would like to have a hint on personnal functions to help me perform better. The only thing I am sure is my enneagram which is either 4w3 or 3w4.

 

[Butze]

Why not ENTJ? You kind of strike me more as a Te dom than a Ni dom...

 

[Keila]

In my experience..

Te typically appears very organized and structured.
Strong Ne usually looks like chaos. >.> or very scattered.

Te tries to get to the end result in the most efficient way possible so might be slower to take action while figuring out what's efficient.
Ne user will launch right in and reassess a million times along the way, and eventually get there but realize it would have been much faster if they had just done 'X'.

Te users I've come across like to make factual or absolute statements.
Ne users (including myself) tend to make alot of hesitant "maybe this or that" type statements. Out loud brain storming happens but they'll make a statement one minute, change their mind and then contradict it as new information occurs to them. I(INTP) personally struggle to make any kind of absolute statement unless I'm dead certain I can support it. I've caught Te users making a statement that sounded like fact, but they were really just guessing (and wrong).

As Legion stated, Ne will make a bunch of random insights, go down rabbit trails, or jump a conversation to something seemingly unrelated to what was being talked about before because their mind went somewhere else but they failed to properly segway so everyone ends up blinking at them like "what are you talking about?"

Te users that I know do like making charts, graphs, lists... I will make lists as well, but mostly cause I'll forget if I don't. I like reading charts and graphics as a means of getting a quick summary or overall picture of what's going on. Data comparison. I don't typically enjoy making them.

I do not like sanbox games, an action must have a mean else it is waste of time

I could just be and odd INTP or Ne user because I don't like sandbox games either. I know plenty of Ne users that do, but I typically like having a point to what I'm doing.

Despite being very shy and somewhat clueless in social things,

Maybe it's just the small subset of INTJs I've been around, but they never struck me as socially clueless. In fact, just the opposite actually. Of course, that doesn't mean they always played nice with the social structure or adapted themselves to fit in.

I hope you can glean some information from all that...?

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Hello guys,

I come back from a afternoon in theme park and I finally found my answer (not really one in a logical term in fact but sufficient meaning for me).
Pardon my wording in advance, I am not native english speaker.

During this afternoon, I read a lot of content accross forum around Ni/Ne, types and so on. But to be honest I found most of content not even conclusive and generally too abstract to be used as it is. The thing which bothered me a lot was that most of the insights was reviewing BEHAVIOUR and TASTES instead of actually disserting about FUNCTIONS and DIRECTIONS.

To make you understand how I came to the following conclusion (I am here to have insight about me afterall ^^), I will tell you how it came to me. After a lot of read, my brain was quite painful and I saw that trying to draw conclusion from what I read will not push me to success, I gave up and just left it as it was. I then went to a coaster (I enjoy speed and things which "saturate" my senses so that my brain goes zen) and finally - I don't remember and know how - but at the exit I had a "vague" (in terms of wording) but meaningful (for me) answer.
I do not remember well because I then refined on it but here is what I wrote down (not original though but close to the beginning) :

Ne Ti ! Ne extracts potential to solve problem in reality and inner abstract logic will process it
Ni Te : some potential will emerge internally from immediate experience and will be tried to be fit in concrete process

Now I see it, I see it is a bit different now but here is the idea : ordering of the functions does not change acting process and necessities.
I read a lot about Ni "just seeing the answer" or being a kind of "prediction tool from the void" and I think this is basically bullshit.
A potential or a link exists if points exist. In a more intelligible way : intuition exhibist candidates arrows which exist bewteen objects or which derive from object. I say potential because in any system, this is LOGIC which is the rule decidor and validator, that is why intuition is labelled as a "perceiving function". In that way, we always need data...without data, no intuition.

From common sense : data ==> intuition ==> logic/feeling ==> action. It is the concrete case of action. I will not dissert about the generalization of this to steps and so on because it is not the topic here.

So what is the point of this ?

Based on this cartography, we can more concretely captures function in our personnal life. What is a function ? A function is at core an "object" which transforms input into output. What if we add the notion of extra/intraversion ?
I would say that an introverted function tends to act like a HardDrive. Introversion means "directed toward inner self". That means that a way to know what you use more as is to see what you stores most when you live your life and what you crave for. While watching a movie tonight, I saw me "processing to store" MEANING and FEELING. Why I know that ? Because who says INTROVERTED STORAGE and PERSPECTIVE says also REFLECTION. REFLECTION is an intepretation process which translates and adapt content to inner self.

This leads us to a second insight about it : because it is intepreted and stored inside, these functions tend to be more STABLE in thei manifestation while EXTROVERTED ones are more volatile and contextual (I do not say convergent or divergent, all judgements are convergent and perceptions are at least flat)
Why ?

Because a function which is exteroverted is based on external immediate data. An extroverted function is mainly a "script" function : it gives an input to another function. Because it is directed towards external world (judging) or just lived in present (perceiving), it is not hold inside and so will not constitute a remaining experience.
I managed to see it in the cinema. I was sitted and some people (especially one) were laughing out loud then being serious, etc. This is a sign of Fe in a way the emotion triggered is shared among others and vanishes (their mood changes quickly). As for myself, I had a more internal approach to the movie. I was actually more sad about the movie. My judgement about this was STABLE whereas I observed the traditionnal "contagion" of laugh around. I do not know if I was clear.
I also saw my Te+Fi in action while hearing this. Angryness raised fast ("can this f***g s***t stop laufghing like a retard ?") and I cannot help me think about moving from my seat. I had this action in head, just change my seat but at the same time I felt trapped by my inner values (integrity, politeness) and I tought that I couldn't act like that since I wanted order in this room (I am completly anti-chaos in the inner world but accepts it in my head, not really chaos inside but "impressionist painting"). But I felt too bad hearing it, so I just done it.

This example and another will support somethng else : behavioural analysis made to infer preferred functions is pointless.
[MENTION=32741]Keila[/MENTION] : can you elaborate on why yu do not like sanboxes ? What does "pointless" means to you ? I think there is possibly a proof of my point. I will not say mine not to influence you.

So come back to me. Why do I label me as xNTJ now ?
Because my logic is directed outside. I do not stores it (proof : I fogot half of my demonstration in my car, I had cool things but now...), I use an external reference to it (classic logic and practical validation) and I want it to materialize in world as an "object" (I want things to be done my way and can be quite bossy when not in a "shy" situation).

Concerning Ne and Ni, I have come to a way to tell them apart. First, notice that intuition is something unconscious. To compare it with a programming language, intuition is a "bytecode" : something we see as a black box but efficient. It shows candidates bonds. For me Ne, as an extroverted perceiving function captures a possibility in the outside world. But as an extroverted function, its result is volatile. There are two routes to follow : going up in the environement (saying out loud to someone for example "you see that knurr ? It could be used to burn fire" or processed by a judging function to acheive an internal or external action. Ti will process it to draws a conclusion an see if it possible). Ni however is an inner stored connection inducer. Some people label it as "predictive" because it is more stable (because introverted). In fact, it is stupid to say that Ni or Ne is more able to predict since seeing the future is impossible. Actually the quality of the forecast is not defined by its result but by its insight (that is why I consider forecast to be like the intuition function, the decision being strategic) but it is another topic. Ni relies more on inner experienced language, that is all...not a superpower of something far-fetched like I read all the time.
In my case, I know I favor Ni because I thrive by inner meaning. I usually do not search for logic or organization/building inside but for meaning/meta-view. I store "potential" and spheres of meaning (a word for me has a color, that is why the word "reflection" was pushed to my head tonight even if I NEVER reflect on it, it had contextual and personnal meaning on its own and was also a Te translation of Ni).
I am also certainly not Fe because I never use external reference for feeling and not has a direction toward creating an external feeling sphere for the sake of it (i.e. outside serving own motives). I also keep F for myself and live it internally.

For the E/I part, I think I am more I in general but I would label me as shy ambivert. I love making presentation and I am also quite good communicator when prepared. Professors always told me they did not expect I was capable of it (since I am very shy and solitary). Especially, I am good at explaining clearly my point and supporting it interactively from a chart.

[MENTION=32741]Keila[/MENTION] : When I said clueless, I would best say : clueless in making bond in the traditionnal way (feeling). I however not that bad to see social patterns. I went to a one week sport holiday and my objective was to live my dreamed inner self by being the "social butterfly", being a kind of VIP who jumped from group to group. I also wanted to pickup a bit I end up making crazy things I did not suspect and was quite successful at it (picking up too, someone told me "wo you are the man !"). I like being the centre of attention, trying "thrilling" social things. But I fear failure and am very low in my confidence of being capable of staying emotionally stable. I generally feel intense emotions. I am afraid of making the wrong thing and so killing my whole plan. Therefore, I am very shy in a constant environment (work, school) and in general. This kind of periods are rare.

To finish, I will add that there is no proof that we cannot switch functions. Why would someone who value logic use BOTH type of thinking ? Common sense, fact that life is continuous and even Jung label extra/intro- vert movements as fluctuating and not clear boundaries. Therefore I would say that this labels more inclination but not generalize to all action. Adding to it MOTIVES (enneagram) and you will end up not trying to infer things from behaviour.

 

[Pionart]

To finish, I will add that there is no proof that we cannot switch functions.

Correct: in fact, we use all 8 functions, and we use these through the function order of multiple types.

For example, an INTJ has generally a fairly well developed INTP side and vice versa, and within those 2 are contained all 8 functions.

I am glad that you've come to a firm conclusion on your function use.

For my point of view, there are two important things to ne effective fie fulfilling this role : open-mindness and operational thinking. To sum up, it is like being a modeler who seek to represent reality using mathematical tool and being eager to do not have preconception around which method should address this kind of problem.
In a way, the best is to see maths as a tool and not as a truth holder.

This is what I fear in going in this direction... as an INFJ, I prefer Ti to Te, but on the other hand, I have a well developed ESTJ side, so likely it would be a collaboration between the Ni and Te dominants of each respective side, so an INTJ is probably better suited to it since they can just look at it from the one perspective.

Although, I'm thinking about it more, and deciding it may not be the path for me, and even when I thought it was, it was only going to be a temporary path, and I had planned to move into another area. Instead, I am currently thinking that I will do further studies, and while this will prolong being in a poor financial position, it should be good in the long run as I can get into a more suitable area at a better pace.

On the other hand, I could be overthinking the importance of type for doing jobs like this or any other, and time will tell what path I go down.

 

[Keila]

[MENTION=32741]Keila[/MENTION] : can you elaborate on why yu do not like sanboxes ? What does "pointless" means to you ? I think there is possibly a proof of my point. I will not say mine not to influence you.

There's no end goal. I have no absolute need to reach the end goal when there is one, but without any kind of goal, I have no direction and nothing to work toward so I don't see a point in playing the game; or I don't know what to do in the game if I actually make myself sit down and attempt it.

I'm curious as to the point you're trying to glean from this?

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Legion : I actually was recruited alognside another Data Scientist who has been fired two months later.
You know why ? He constanly bragged about this and this paper, claimed current system was flawed and so on. But in front on computer, he did not had the willingness to do simple analysis tasks.
Here is my point on this : it may be French related but at first you may not be caught up with complex stuff, familiarizing with data and so on. At the beginning, we must accept to do a bit of "dirty work" as a kind of test. I studied it management in fact, so maybe if you find the right company (more like small trending ones) you may learn a lot.
Keila : here is my point, you seek potential from game material in a pretty direct way ( I do not mean lesser, I mean meaning from the object). As for me, I more do not like this kind of games in general because I do not see point in an "indirect way". I tend to wait a more general meaning which fit in my sphere.
Sorry I used you to prove to myself the problem of infering function from behaviour and judgements

 

[FiyaXiii]

doing not that mluch because my time is short and I prefer doing nothing that doing it half. This frustratres me.

Here are also some random insights :

- I am somewhat paranoïd (in a sane way but I imagine hidden agenda everywhere)
- I do not like people stating problems and complaining about it without proposing solutions
- I HATE when people state judgements and then retreat when - angry - I told them to support their thinking, I can become very arrogant and angry at these moments
- I do not like people having an opinion and so accepting verything related instead of considering cases separately given context
- I can cry easily and I see pros and cons to be seen crying
- I am not able to relax, almost never
- I do not like sanbox games, an action must have a mean else it is waste of time
- I challenge mainstream ideas and HATE when people tell me "we do it because thie is the way to do/ because it is polite/ etc." (I consider it hypocrisy or pointless actions)
- I usually value PERSONNAL points on view as long as they are not stating something as truth (I consider that there is no truth about everything). I love the ones who gives a "color" of their judgement instead of prosaic material
- I HATE people who speak about the director of a movie instead of the movie itself to defend it (I do not care about who done what, I care about the "what")
- I can in some way be "influenced" easily by esoteric thinking since there is no proff it is wrong. I do not think it is true but it might be. I so had a hard time with Tarot since I could'nt prove it wrong and these cards have a lot of allegory inside which helps to make decisions. I am not a real "religious" person but somehow I seek to find meaning in an general way of thinking
- I am of "all or nothing"
- I prefer seeing a word, an idea as a painting than on a single point (I do not like synonyms because they do not capture meaningful differences, I do not like putting judgement everywhere when it is not justified and does not add value - destroys it instead)

You actually remind me exactly of my ENFP friend tbh. I see Inferior Si in you. You can read about it there and see whether I'm onto anywhere or not. Overall, the functions I see so far for you are; Fi, Te and Si.


You should also fill out some forms, or at-least 1, just saying. Will make it easier for people to help you figure out whatever you want to talk about, whether it be MBTI, Enneagram, Socionics or even Temperaments? People I reckon need more information to help you and you'll find it more worthwhile yourself.

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

To be honest, I wanted to avoid at all cost being an INTP and I used kind of rhetoric to escape it.
However, even if I must admit I use Ti and that I am generally sensitive to others, I do not fit at all at INTP in my opinion. I must be biased but do not see me as a leading thinking person and I am in fact not very interested in deep understanding of theory.

Example :

At work, we had a third-party forecast engine which tend to be criticized by operationnal people. I was not in charge of this and I was kinda frustrated because I saw it as both a potential topic to increase my "social" influence at work (I mean being recognized as a vital person and so having the opportunity to be in charge of forecast/supply area) and I tend to love the forecast topic since it interconnects many fields (maths, strategy, psychology, ...) and so is a totally unknow territory to explore. I see it also as a realm to try all the algorithms concept I like.

I first start off to write an engine using genetic algorithms. Why ? Because I find it cool conceptually even if I never took a deep look about it. The fact which makes me think I am far more Ne than Ti is that I usally tends to search for potential first and tries it than analyzing deeply the topic. I seek to try my algorithm because it is "grandiose" and I usually want to be seen as an innovator. After having written my algorithm, I usually tries it and see if it fits. If not, I can eventually look about theory and other refinments but it happens more at second step and I consider it more as a tool than a field to study. While I enjoy speaking about abstractions and possibilities, I tend to be less inclined into accumulating knowledge about it.
Someone also told me "genetic algorithms are hard to converge" and my boss told "GA are not usually the best approach to take because...[theoritical stuff]..." which makes me a lot more driven to "prove them wrong" at all costs by building up a grandiose software to prove that at the end of the day...I am "the best" and they must now see me as a creative and independant superhero (giving me money and a better position too !).

In this way, I feel like I have always have a "different" approach to mathematics to many of my peers. In one hand, there are the "real" scientists I consider more interested and skilled than me to use the scientific content and on the other hand the "classical informaticians" who prefer using widely used frameworks and so on. I tend to use core libraries and to write functions on my own, not for the sake of understanding but because I find it more productive, expressive (I do not understand easily "coder language" and I am not interested in using it) to write my functions. I also hate to admit it but I do want other people to use my library so that I use a "passive" promotion of it (writing on team reports, writing extensive documentations, etc.).


Here are data which points out to Ne-dom instead of Ti-dom :

- From my young age, I was usually always the guy who have the solution to daily concrete problems. When someone does not know how to use a software, a remote or how to make something work for the first time, I jump to exploration and find the solution quckly by trying and making quick intuitive moves. I tend to jump direcly into trying/exploring instead of analyzing it. I then sort trough my experience and I explain how I did.
- I was not at core a thinking person when I was younger, I was in fact not very good at
- Even if I am very shy, I usually think people are not enough "into the world" and I tend to prefer going to see people at their desk instead of writing an email/a message. I am somewhat anxious being watched but I do enjoy being the center of attention. Overall, I feel like I am more directed towards world and ironacally this is what makes me anxious. I usually see potential problems from many things ("if I do this, it will trigger this") ; coupled with my care for social image (I am aware of my image and tend to put a good amount of efforts to look like a kind of "superhero of problem troubleshooting" to impress people) leads me to some kind of paralysis.
- When someone propose me a crazy thing, I tend to jump direcly into the proposal. I can retreat then if my social anxiety arises too much but my first impulse if to take the challenge especially if people tells me "it is not possible"
- I prefer being around people. I do not mean to chit-chat but I prefer having people around me even if I do not speak to them.
- I read some of my 16 year old writing ; I critisized philosophers because their activity was only a "game which do not bring anything to humanity" in terms of concrete solutions ; I praise however classical novel writers which for me wrote in a clearer way while being more "human" and involved in real life
- I have not really an wide "inner world" even if I tend to pretend otherwise to girls to appear deeper
- I feel good when people talk to me (quickly, more will let me become very anxious) and I usually tend to "exhibit" myself
- I chose several times to go on sports holiday with many people. I use to go solo because I like settling new ephemerial bonds and I tend to start going around isolated people to create a "social web" on which to rely "in case"
- I enjoy using inter-displinary frameworks to solve problems
- I tried many exams around a wide set of disciplines because I saw lot of potential experiences in them (army, litterature, engineering)
- When someone introduces me a problem, I usually tend to make connection quickly in my brain whith abstract unordered relations, sometimes backed by memory
- I impressed my professors because I am quite good and energetic at making a presentation
- I tend to sort my toughts out loud because it helps me ordering them
- I buy and set up many things "in case I need it"
- I enjoy eccentric clothes and I am concerned with appearing successful
- I took the test "A Quick Guide To Double-Checking Your Type" which confirmed to me I am not an INTP (I relate a lot more to "Get things going" style of communication)
- I am not that much interested in anylyzing myself inward, I do it generally when I am into crisis and I search for solutions in an obsessive fashion
- I share my theory eventually after experimentation but I almost never build theory and sort out things without any empirical data before (example : after having tried to be a social butterfly at some parties, I wrote a field guide/model to socialize as a "lone wolf") : extroverted observation first, introverted sorting after
- I have been a mega troll back in the day (when I was younger), posting massive posts to destroy beliefs or games and so on choosing the minority side (if 90% people hated something, I was part of the 10%)
- I think every ten seconds to a new thing to add to this list and which relates to others

Why I think I am not Fi :

- I tend to play the devil advocate for fun but I must admit it is more a reactive reaction to society instead of real values : at core, I am somewhat genuine to social harmony and I value a lot the Justice (as concept)
- I generally use classical moral code and care for excluded people in movies
- I think always about end user when I deisgn something; all end users, I want my solution/global design to be understandable for them and meaningful

Thanks for the insight about lower Si because I relate to its description. I do not think I am F type however even if I do not see this function really low in my stack (not the last at least).

The reason why I mistype INTP is - in my opinion - because I am shy and I somewhat avoid too prolonged social bond.
Apart from social anxiety, the underlying reason behind this behaviour is that I do not want to be the prisoner of a group where I end up being bored. I prefer starting steps fo relationships instead of having to "feed" them. When I invest in a group, I feel then trapped between the energy I must use to maintain my social image and fulfiil my "duty" to stay in the group not to to be excluded from it and my delight in experimenting new things when the group has been already "consumed".

Thanks for the insight about ENFP, it actually makes me came to this conclusion !

 

[Butze]

You are not a Ni dom anymore? This quick changes do actually seem pretty Ne dom XD

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Yup you nailed it ^^
To be frank and illustrate my Ne type, I mostly wrote it to trigger contradictory posts and have more data
I also did not want to be INTP but I saw too much matching points to Ne and Ti so I elaborate a quick theory from my experience in theme park (which does sound ok in fact) to reassure myself. Last night I tried to remember my youth and I somewhat reconciliate with my feeling part (I have unlocked lost memories in fact !), so thanks for it !

 

[Butze]

Hey, whatever floats your boat Glad you finally accepted yourself.

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

In fact it is so crazy it made me realize realize things in a consious self-observing level at the point I question the possibility to be trapped in a Barnum effect
I tried to jump again to Ni but when I come back to ENTP I see almost every relevant points (I exclude very archetypal behavioural descriptions because many types can fit...) checked.

This research allowed me to realize that I relied a lot in Ne and that I was probably neglecting a lot my rational side because I am de facto a kind of "math" engineer but I saw that in fact I was much more driven by an uncontrolled Ne lot of times (especially under stress). When I sort out loud to myself the possibilities in a rational way, I feel more balanced.
I reealize I do it rarely because I am never alone to do such. During my last year of stydy, I lived alone in an apartment where I could speak out loud frankly and I felt more balanced. Same when I began to work one year and half before, I reached my workplace by car and so I could sort things out loud for 30-40 minutes before working. Now I am ALWAYS around people.

Being Fe as tertiary somewhat makes me feel a bit more empty because I liked to saw me as a romantic guy (in an abtract fashion in fact because in reality I am not that much into it action-wise). I feel a bit less "human" in fact.

And here I know go back to a Ne-Fe loop because I just draw incousious connexions between humanity and feeling (defined in a cognitive fashion). I think my 4w3 (of 3w4 whatever) is representative of my huge interest around my identity which I tend to view (in terms of conscious dreams) as defined by how I am seen. I see it a concrete evidence which shows that F/N (cognitive process) and identity (motive) are separate topics. That is somewhat turbulent but 4+3 is so...

Stop disserting and go back to actions I see to be beneficial :

- using more my rationality to sort out things instead of letting me overwhelmed by my "what if" connections
- indulging in myself facing that I am in fact concerned by others view of myself (that does not mean I will never again prove people wrong )


That is quite good for now, I think I have two brand-new approach (I already though about the seocnd to be honest, but never on the first) to improve. I tried many things to help myself but the first advice is by far the best. These days, I tended to rush things out, never allowing myself to reflect.

 

[Yutopas]

I might be wrong but I feel the "identity seeker" vibe in your writing which leads directly to at least Fi. You seem also definitely more introverted with identity issues (NiFi or FiNi loop). At least I will place Fi in your top three.
Use of quotation marks shows also that you have a deep bound with imagery.
I would say so INTJ or ISFP depending on your own analysis. I found your theory about functions very interesting and you went to essence of them, which points to Ni.
Note that your preferred function is not the one you are aware of the most since it is an automated process. You can ask yourself which function you can use without any or barely any support of others and which is your main weekness.

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Yes of course I am not in my best fit else I would not have came here to ask that sort of question.
I think I have reached to a conclusion and my behaviour seems to illustrate my core functions but I will not tell you and defer the logic to you.
To go much deeper about my problem solving style, I will explain it to you.
Generally, I do not remember well how it comes. In fact, I do not remember any thought process which have lead to the solution. I remember just my justification which arrives after tought.
Last day I encounter a problem in my forecast system, it seemed too high. I same the problem and told to myself "hmm, something must have done that". Then something popped on my head "just shift seasonality left" while drawing a graph to represent the conceptual curve.
This comes generally like this and I stay with a single solution. My brain never really diverges consciensouly to find a solution, it diverges when it comes to implement it because I want usually to have a solution which crunch numbers fast. My solution looks like generally "hand-on" and I build around it. Going to another route is hard because I feel it is the right solution even if it is generally hard to justify it in logical terms.
My implementation is generally not concerned about strict accuracy. I think about what are my bosses ttrue expectations and what is the cost of marginal errors. I am therefore very attached to my idea but not so much about tuning it which has to be validated by people at stake. I am perfectionist in terms of what appeals me : fast number crunching for example.
To sum up : an idea which is almost a solution pops and then I ask myself : how will I represents that in a concrete solution ? My thinking/conception comes after the idea.
I generally avoid to think logically to figure out a problem since it causes headaches and is not really productive. I can do that but I am generally not able to say "this problem is a case where the features are xxx so I use yyy". This explanations comes after the idea. In general my conscious thinking is more about people stuff ("wow she is such grace, she must be so..."), future actions (posting here for example ^^) or extracting meaning from something. I am also prone to daydream, sometimes being completely disconnected (I remember staring at a girl for minutes without realizing it, I was disconnected without thinking about anything).
I tend to see my solutions (final products and core ideas) as an extent of my personality, I mean my "signature" which exhibit my uniqueness and efficience. It is an end and a mean to have a concrete marker on the company, a product.

Concerning my personal life, you are right about something : I value a lot my identity...when I have the self-confidence to support it. I used to have an abstract dream about my ideal self since my childhood but it is more a concept (I can dream in concrete forms about it which vary). It is about love, power and self-realization as a kind of hero but I cannot really describe it, it is more an atmosphere.
I lost this dream since I tried to realize it in reality. There were two components : a special love and a special achievement in life. The first was pretty obvious but the second was very hard to fit in reality, that is why I have been a lot indecisive about it (no job could capture all my expectations). I think being isolated led me to have a too grand abstract goal and it was impossible to set (I was confident but not now...).
My friend told me I do not use to do things half-way, it is either all or nothing. He told me I should not be that hard with myself, my goals where too high for a beginner and that I'm usually tacking with very difficult problems.
First, I hesitated about my job. My core favorite discipline was litterature even if I liked maths which were for me different personas of the same abstraction. Litterature was the best to represent my atmosphere but it failed me to grind the social ladder. Then I hesitated about becoming officer or engineer. Officer was making my love dream to fall even if it was the consecration of my child dream about "knight". Engineer could also but my values were not met.
I chose so eengineer, it was the best course and made me realize that dreams must be pondered by life limitations.
It was an acceptable step and it could have worked if lové have not failed. I have lost my ideal I think after a huge sentimental issue. I had a big goal and I worked a lot around, I went to UK to save a relationship. It was my unique goal and I invested all, analyzing a lot. We finally broke up and since it is like I have lost my sight, I need to reconnect with myself.
I am now so in a predicament, I lost connection with my abstract goal.
Usually I regain it by finding my values and symbols, reflecting on them trough things which have a deep meaning for me. It is hard to explain even in French in fact.
For example, while many people takes a laugh around Star Wars 3 (I dislike the serie apart from it), I have a deep interest in the Anakin's path, he is a kind of ideal self radiating this tortured but grandiose mind. He had a dream and he tried to realize it failing in a tragic but in grandious romantic fashion. When I watch this movie, my brain just keep what interests me and what can help me rebuild my sens of direction.
My parents views me as a bit rigid, "military" they say but also a bit overnalyzing, not enjoying enough the present+what I already have, and too hard to myself. I am seen as somewhat insensitive even if I think I have a huge sensibility. When in Torment, I try to hide my tears.
Usually I am altough easy-going even if I can be irritable for these causes : disorder (not about tidy environment but when people does things in chaos), repeating something to me when I already answered yes, invading me when I try to figure out by searching information, violating my secret garden. I tend to be the "officer" when I see this and I give some semi-orders/directions ("you : build this part ; you : this").
With others, I am less directive because I am not in a power/deep relation. I do it indirectly by sending a report skeleton to fill, suggesting an idea while thinking in my mind "this is the best answer to the problem". I am shy and I consider that forcing people to do something can lead to rebellious attitude and so fail of the group...including myself ! At work, it is even worse because I am not de facto the leader (hierarchical ladder). Hopefully, I have had good leaders. Current one is OK but he is somewhat not very precise about what he wants. He is more suggestive so I take initiative and produce things to build up m'y personnal project and the company wealth too.
That's it, I hope you will be able to tell me what you think. You know, the last day I thought about functions and I immediately tried to draw without thinking. It was so strange to see what I can produce, weird drawings. I start with some lines and it triggers a meaning in my head. I add on it and then I can see several perspective. I then add to have a drawing coming from the void without any thinking. It makes me feel so good because I attend a sort of zen-state which happens rarely (I am stressed because I do not do the necessary actions to build my life farther). I identify well with Anakin : I am impatient because I feel that I do not receive the position I merit. Yet I see differences I envy : he is action-packed in a more raw vision than me (I am more about building a kind of "kingdom") and seems much more feeling.

 

[Yutopas]

Your type is hard to point out, maybe others will be better to figure it out. What is sure is that, being an engineer and having lived what you say, you probably end up with high Ti AND Te. Ni seems pretty obvious. You might be an ISFP but you seem more analytical towards your feelings than really a feeler. I think you are an atypic INTJ (your enneagram is not very common for this type) with an interest in romantic stuff. Auxiliary Te has been clearly a way for you to escape your identity seeking loop.
Admiring ISFP is quite common among INTJ, so this seals the deal. In fact this is not very important, once you narrowed important functions of yours, you will be able to see the route to go forth. Hope it'll help.