Enneagram up for grabs

[Dreamer]

So initially, I was dead set on 7w6. I was then introduced to e2 and did see a lot of characteristics of myself in that type, but to be honest, I just didn't relate all that much to the type because I don't help out others for their love, but really just because well, why not? If it doesn't take much effort or time away from me, why not? Then, I started looking into 9. This one does sound like me too. I have this internal emotional core that I like to defend and keep secure as much as possible, so that usually means I'll take the least stressful or combative route to get to where I want to be. The general notion perspective of not seeing that much value in trivial things adds to that though too. This means that if I deem something as truly not that big a deal, where others me, I'll come off very apathetic towards it, because it's just not worth any emotional expenditure.

So, anyone out there have any e types they could peg me as? Any tritype? Thanks!!

 

[Starry]

So initially, I was dead set on 7w6. I was then introduced to e2 and did see a lot of characteristics of myself in that type, but to be honest, I just didn't relate all that much to the type because I don't help out others for their love, but really just because well, why not? If it doesn't take much effort or time away from me, why not? Then, I started looking into 9. This one does sound like me too. I have this internal emotional core that I like to defend and keep secure as much as possible, so that usually means I'll take the least stressful or combative route to get to where I want to be. The general notion perspective of not seeing that much value in trivial things adds to that though too. This means that if I deem something as truly not that big a deal, where others me, I'll come off very apathetic towards it, because it's just not worth any emotional expenditure.

So, anyone out there have any e types they could peg me as? Any tritype? Thanks!!

If there is one thing I know about you Dreamer... one thing that is so obvious I think anyone that has had but a few minutes of exposure to you would agree...

You are Positive Outlook dominant. As both your nature and conscious will dictates... you find and keep your focus on all that is good in this world.

^^So wow...that really narrows things down doesn't it? as we've gone from nine possibilities to just three for you 2, 7 or 9. <-But I'm going to immediately take away one more. For while 9s are definitely positive outlook and Dreamers for that matter...it is generally expressed in more of a "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" type of way. They are minus the Enthusiastic part is what I'm saying...as they remain detached/cut-off from all of their emotions... fearing that strong emotions of any kind... even the decidedly joyful can rock a boat they do not wish rock. Their positive outlook is of the sleepy-zen variety...not the "in your face, cannot be denied, tangible" variety.

So now we are staring down two points. 2 and 7.



I actually don't know how this came about...perhaps Riso and Hudson are to blame. But somewhere along the way...someone that wasn't thinking all that clearly possibly due to heavy 60's style drug use...named each of the 9 points by their 'commonly expressed coping strategy'. stupido! Stupido, stupido, stupido!

What has this done? Well, if you are not part of the coping strategy mainstream...if you pioneered your own way around your core fear... you're kinda fucked when it comes to knowing what your type is. I mean, we have been schooled since our earliest education to take significant meaning from these type of labels/names/titles... so now how will a scrappy, feisty, firey 9w8 fit themselves into the 'Peacemaker'? Or like with me...do you know how long it took me to find my way around all the sex, drugs, rock & roll and Robin Williams of the e7? My Mom used to introduce me as one of her 'introverted children' no shit. Happy...check. Excited by new possibilities....check. Other 7 stuff...check. But there was no way in hell I would have readily seen myself in 'The Crack Doer' or 'The Enthusiast' (I've actually seen 7 titled 'The Rock Star' as well which had me loling and yah righting.) Basically, all you have to work with is a core fear you keep hidden from yourself and an enneagram point title that you *think* is supposed to describe everyone of that type that you don't relate to. Now go type yourself Dreamer!


The problem seems a bit compounded when it comes to 2s. I used to wonder why it was that male 2s mistyped as 7s...like always. Like Haven is the only accurately typed male 2 I have ever seen here...and I've seen an okay amount of male 2s. Well, having read most of the Helper/Giver descriptions... I feel pretty stupido having wondered about this because from them I think it would be quite safe and sound to conclude male 2s don't even exist. I mean, I don't really give a shit how gender-not-cool I'm being here... In a world where so many women don't want to identify with being a "Helper" and "Giver"...men are going to read that and be like "omg that's so me! I'm just one big Helper."...?

Men lead...direct...coordinate...rally...initiate...encourage... That's how men phrase it on their resumes in lieu of "years of proven helping and giving service." Still...not all 2s do any of this. Many 2s only offer their acceptance...or their love...or their attention...or some combination of those three. Not all 2s cope with the 2 core fear by helping.


I'm running out of time right now...and will need to come back. But you need to understand that 2s are some of the most dynamic, seductive, magnetic people out there... not that you would know that though from crap on the internet.

 

[Dreamer]

If there is one thing I know about you Dreamer... one thing that is so obvious I think anyone that has had but a few minutes of exposure to you would agree...

You are Positive Outlook dominant. As both your nature and conscious will dictates... you find and keep your focus on all that is good in this world.

^^So wow...that really narrows things down doesn't it? as we've gone from nine possibilities to just three for you 2, 7 or 9. <-But I'm going to immediately take away one more. For while 9s are definitely positive outlook and Dreamers for that matter...it is generally expressed in more of a "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" type of way. They are minus the Enthusiastic part is what I'm saying...as they remain detached/cut-off from all of their emotions... fearing that strong emotions of any kind... even the decidedly joyful can rock a boat they do not wish rock. Their positive outlook is of the sleepy-zen variety...not the "in your face, cannot be denied, tangible" variety.

So now we are staring down two points. 2 and 7.



I actually don't know how this came about...perhaps Riso and Hudson are to blame. But somewhere along the way...someone that wasn't thinking all that clearly possibly due to heavy 60's style drug use...named each of the 9 points by their 'commonly expressed coping strategy'. stupido! Stupido, stupido, stupido!

What has this done? Well, if you are not part of the coping strategy mainstream...if you pioneered your own way around your core fear... you're kinda fucked when it comes to knowing what your type is. I mean, we have been schooled since our earliest education to take significant meaning from these type of labels/names/titles... so now how will a scrappy, feisty, firey 9w8 fit themselves into the 'Peacemaker'? Or like with me...do you know how long it took me to find my way around all the sex, drugs, rock & roll and Robin Williams of the e7? My Mom used to introduce me as one of her 'introverted children' no shit. Happy...check. Excited by new possibilities....check. Other 7 stuff...check. But there was no way in hell I would have readily seen myself in 'The Crack Doer' or 'The Enthusiast' (I've actually seen 7 titled 'The Rock Star' as well which had me loling and yah righting.) Basically, all you have to work with is a core fear you keep hidden from yourself and an enneagram point title that you *think* is supposed to describe everyone of that type that you don't relate to. Now go type yourself Dreamer!


The problem seems a bit compounded when it comes to 2s. I used to wonder why it was that male 2s mistyped as 7s...like always. Like Haven is the only accurately typed male 2 I have ever seen here...and I've seen an okay amount of male 2s. Well, having read most of the Helper/Giver descriptions... I feel pretty stupido having wondered about this because from them I think it would be quite safe and sound to conclude male 2s don't even exist. I mean, I don't really give a shit how gender-not-cool I'm being here... In a world where so many women don't want to identify with being a "Helper" and "Giver"...men are going to read that and be like "omg that's so me! I'm just one big Helper."...?

Men lead...direct...coordinate...rally...initiate...encourage... That's how men phrase it on their resumes in lieu of "years of proven helping and giving service." Still...not all 2s do any of this. Many 2s only offer their acceptance...or their love...or their attention...or some combination of those three. Not all 2s cope with the 2 core fear by helping.


I'm running out of time right now...and will need to come back. But you need to understand that 2s are some of the most dynamic, seductive, magnetic people out there... not that you would know that though from crap on the internet.

Thank you very much Starry! Immediately, I can say I am NOT a 9, if any strong emotion is pushed aside. I don't prefer the negative emotions, but I do see their value and would much rather feel them than ignore them. I like to try and understand what is happening, not turn a blind eye to it. Also, if 9s not only isolate themselves from negative emotions but positive emotions, then absolutely not! There is a part of me that will always appreciate and value my masters education as I went to an art school, and it wasn't until I was completely surrounded by other creative types, that I felt truly comfortable in my highly emotional, male self. Not that I ever tried to push this obnoxious male image of myself onto others, but I just never related to all the ideas of masculinity as often seen in pop culture, like at all.

I have to remind myself too, that as you mention, 2s can, and do give in ways other than by helping others. Heck, I even created a thread about this! I didn't forget what you mentioned there, but I'm afraid all the "helper" nonsense online has briefly overshadowed the posts found in that thread.

To end, I appreciate the other examples given, of how 2s can give. I like how they can potentially give by means of offering their attention, and acceptance, and along these lines, then yes, I could absolutely see myself as a 2. I don't think I ever actively knew I was doing this, but the common theme in my life growing up and to today, is that I tend to be the friend people come to for their emotional struggles. Not to fix their lives or anything, but mostly, just as an ear of non-judgment. A break from the judgments they may face outside in the real world. At least, that's how I'd like to be seen. Do I try to reinforce this "image"? I really don't, but it is at least, a value I seem to seek out in others time and time again, as I seek the acceptance in others, for who I am, and (brainstorming here) it wouldn't surprise me, if that is actually the root cause of all this, is my desire to be understood and accepted for who I am, without me having to play this role or that. The least I can do for the world, is to offer this value to others in the hopes that one day, I may cross paths with someone that shares this value, with me.

 

[Starry]

^^I wasn't notified of this post [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] and will come back and read it in a meaningful way. I did hammer this out for you though...hopefully it makes sense.

*****************

One of the things I’ve noticed with head-types is when they flip-out they are quite often over-focused or hyper-focused on one element or piece that they exaggerate. There’s just too much going on in our minds to always have what it takes to break it all down in the moment…and so they’ll hyperbole some singular part or point instead out of necessity. They latch onto a short-hand…they are saying “stare into this piece and see the entire puzzle as I do…don’t you see it?” <-And then the orderlies come to take them away.

In my court jestor story…the way my friend hyper-focused on “clown” and “intelligence”… While it wasn’t until recently that I had a language for it… I have always known that was short-hand.

I didn’t explain any of it well enough to anyone at the time due to the fact my mind makes it so I must use short-hand always… (and because I did not anticipate this discussion.) But my primary concern was not “worth based” in all of that…and as strange as it may sound to you given what my friend actually communicated I know it wasn’t for him either…I can even remember saying to him “like you give a rat’s ass what people think of you what?”

In a nutshell…my friend was reacting. If he could say what he truly wanted to say it would be something like this:
We are being recognized for our coping strategies and that’s way backwards. A world in which we are only wanted when we are hiding and not truly seen is not a safe place for us. We are in the twilight zone. We don't understand this place like we thought we did and are unprotected.
^that’s fear.

For you my story seemed to bring up worth-based issues. “I am smart god damn it and I better be recognized as such.” <-standing up and being accounted for…that’s the beautiful, epic journey of 2 in my mind.

 

[Dreamer]

^^I wasn't notified of this post [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] and will come back and read it in a meaningful way. I did hammer this out for you though...hopefully it makes sense.

*****************

One of the things I’ve noticed with head-types is when they flip-out they are quite often over-focused or hyper-focused on one element or piece that they exaggerate. There’s just too much going on in our minds to always have what it takes to break it all down in the moment…and so they’ll hyperbole some singular part or point instead out of necessity. They latch onto a short-hand…they are saying “stare into this piece and see the entire puzzle as I do…don’t you see it?” <-And then the orderlies come to take them away.

In my court jestor story…the way my friend hyper-focused on “clown” and “intelligence”… While it wasn’t until recently that I had a language for it… I have always known that was short-hand.

I didn’t explain any of it well enough to anyone at the time due to the fact my mind makes it so I must use short-hand always… (and because I did not anticipate this discussion.) But my primary concern was not “worth based” in all of that…and as strange as it may sound to you given what my friend actually communicated I know it wasn’t for him either…I can even remember saying to him “like you give a rat’s ass what people think of you what?”

In a nutshell…my friend was reacting. If he could say what he truly wanted to say it would be something like this:
We are being recognized for our coping strategies and that’s way backwards. A world in which we are only wanted when we are hiding and not truly seen is not a safe place for us. We are in the twilight zone. We don't understand this place like we thought we did and are unprotected.
^that’s fear.

For you my story seemed to bring up worth-based issues. “I am smart god damn it and I better be recognized as such.” <-standing up and being accounted for…that’s the beautiful, epic journey of 2 in my mind.

I am so glad you explained your story as I did feel there was a disconnect. I definitely would not have interpreted it as you just spelled out, at least not without any further hints. It's interesting you point out my perceptions in offering up clues to my type, and I think brings up such an intriguing reality. There are times when you can break out of your typical world perspective and see another, but I feel, ultimately, you tend to fall back into the one you know. In the case you bring up, I interpreted your story as a having a sense of worthlessness, or at least, an area where your confusion stemmed from, but it wasn't. That was ME attempting to stick myself in your shoes for a bit, in what I thought was your perspective, but was in fact, my own still. I admit that is how I tend to empathize best with people, but this example also shows when such strategies actually don't work. This actually brings up a conversation I had with [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] once, in where I attempted to explain the benefit of getting into the shoes of another. She pointed out the potential pitfall in that my perception of the other perspective may also be completely off, and that is what happened here. Mmm... Just realized what I mentioned had nothing to do with your reply. Gotta love those tangential thoughts

 

[OrangeAppled]

So initially, I was dead set on 7w6. I was then introduced to e2 and did see a lot of characteristics of myself in that type, but to be honest, I just didn't relate all that much to the type because I don't help out others for their love, but really just because well, why not? If it doesn't take much effort or time away from me, why not? Then, I started looking into 9. This one does sound like me too. I have this internal emotional core that I like to defend and keep secure as much as possible, so that usually means I'll take the least stressful or combative route to get to where I want to be. The general notion perspective of not seeing that much value in trivial things adds to that though too. This means that if I deem something as truly not that big a deal, where others me, I'll come off very apathetic towards it, because it's just not worth any emotional expenditure.

So, anyone out there have any e types they could peg me as? Any tritype? Thanks!!

2s don't consciously experience that as a motivation. An average 2 would be repelled at the mere idea.

This statement here does suggest a 2 pride.... The pride is that they have such an abundance within that it doesn't take much for them to give or help. Some 2s don't really help at all. Instead they seduce or they just see themselves as overflowing with so much goodness or attractiveness that their mere presence is a gift to people. That's the diva 2. Unfortunately, that is another feminine archetype.

I don't see you as a 9, but I'd have to think more about why.

Generally, focus less on surface attributes that how the core passion leads to it. The passion of the 2 is not helping - it is their pride which leads to an egocentric generosity.

The passion of a 9 is not peacemaking or even passivity - it is sloth, aka psychological/spiritual laziness.

Also, you clearly identity as a positive triad type. How would you describe your energy level? Not physically, but emotionally.

 

[Dreamer]

2s don't consciously experience that as a motivation. An average 2 would be repelled at the mere idea.

This statement here does suggest a 2 pride.... The pride is that they have such an abundance within that it doesn't take much for them to give or help. Some 2s don't really help at all. Instead they seduce or they just see themselves as overflowing with so much goodness or attractiveness that their mere presence is a gift to people. That's the diva 2. Unfortunately, that is another feminine archetype.

I don't see you as a 9, but I'd have to think more about why.

Generally, focus less on surface attributes that how the core passion leads to it. The passion of the 2 is not helping - it is their pride which leads to an egocentric generosity.

The passion of a 9 is not peacemaking or even passivity - it is sloth, aka psychological/spiritual laziness.

Also, you clearly identity as a positive triad type. How would you describe your energy level? Not physically, but emotionally.

Hmm...you've given me some great things to think over Orange, thank you! I threw that 9 up in my profile a while back and sort of forgot it was there haha. But as I learn more of 2 in this thread and elsewhere, especially compared to 9, I see where my thinking may have been off. I assumed the 9 was someone that seeked an internal emotional composure and thus, avoided any situations they felt would challenge that internal state. But as I mentioned to Starry, that doesn't include an aloofness or apathy in me either. It's really just me wishing to protect my emotions rather than wishing to not feel them, bad or good.

 

[thoughtlost]

I agree that the positive triad is where you'll find your core type, [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

A 9 operates on the assumption that there is nothing about themselves that is worthy of their attention, so they forget about themselves/live through other people/fall into routines that they don't have strong feelings for, but it's easy so they stick to it.

A 2 operates on the goal of being loved. [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out how dynamic they are, which is so true... They are not truly nice, caring people! Trust me, their pride can be a doozy. They can trash talk for miles if they feel they haven't been given the respect they want. Those in the heart type triad can easily be narcissists or just complete jerks, including a 2.

I don't know as much about 7s (I had one 7 roommate so I am basing this on limited experience), but they operate more on wanting to be free, not be tied down to people's expectations and live life the way they want to. It can take on the form of being loved for being themselves so it can look like they are 2s, but a 2 isn't focused on how they can't be free to be themselves in the world. The "self" doesn't even come to mind for a 2 even though they have a lot of pride in themselves. a 7 would be miserable if they had to be someone they don't want to be (they are sort of more 4ish in that sense). A two is really only miserable when they just don't feel loved.

At this moment, I feel most comfortable saying that you're not a 2. You are caring, but you don't seem to have this insatiable need to see yourself as loveable. 9 could be you, but you seem more exploratory with yourself (wanting to try on different ideas of who you are and stuff like that) whereas a 9 will either just blend into the environment or get a strong sense that there is a deep nothingness in the pit of their soul and will try to numb themselves to it. 7 definitely fits you for me.

 

[Kierva]

So initially, I was dead set on 7w6. I was then introduced to e2 and did see a lot of characteristics of myself in that type, but to be honest, I just didn't relate all that much to the type because I don't help out others for their love, but really just because well, why not? If it doesn't take much effort or time away from me, why not? Then, I started looking into 9. This one does sound like me too. I have this internal emotional core that I like to defend and keep secure as much as possible, so that usually means I'll take the least stressful or combative route to get to where I want to be. The general notion perspective of not seeing that much value in trivial things adds to that though too. This means that if I deem something as truly not that big a deal, where others me, I'll come off very apathetic towards it, because it's just not worth any emotional expenditure.

So, anyone out there have any e types they could peg me as? Any tritype? Thanks!!

I will stick with 7w6 so/sx with you.

From all my interactions with you, I observed that you are, while emotionally attuned, you are quite cerebral about it. You don't necessarily "live" the emotion as much as you "think" about it, and you have mentioned numerous times that you prefer to deal with the emotions of others as opposed to yourself, because it puts you in a place where you can see things more objectively. This, to me, is an indication of preferring to look outside, and 9 isn't all about that.

You also don't really "accommodate" to others. More often than not, I realized that your style is about looking at things in different perspectives, as opposed to making yourself emotionally available. When I approached you for help regarding careers, and you being a creative yourself, advised me in terms of how can I see the situation at hand differently, as opposed to what you can do for me. This has been repeated every single time I've reached out to you for help. With that being said, 2 is out.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Gonna drop in as I feel well qualified to speak as I have had many interactions with you both on forum and discord . I agree with [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION] on 7w6 So/Sx for you for the reasons listed above and I also see a strong 9w1 in you. I cant see 9w8 as your 9 has a more ideal and perfection side to it with the w1 not the boisterous, grounded and sometimes explosive energy of a w8. Your heart fix is trickier as I have seen 2, 3 and 4 aspects of you and I will speak to you further on heart to find it and yes I will be probing ya .

 

[Dreamer]

Thank you [MENTION=18445]thoughtlost[/MENTION], [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION], and [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION] for your additional input! Hmm, now I have some solid things to reconsider taking me back to 7w6. I've only ever typed as 7w6 in the Enneagram tests I've taken, by quite a bit. I could in the end, be best situated within this Enneagram type, but part of me doesn't want to believe that as I don't seem to share the same vibes as nearly all the other ENFP core 7s on the forum. True, personality typing does not mean you'll come off exactly the same as others that share your type, people are too complex for that, and true, I am also So dom and highly relate to that instinctual stacking, so that also means I'm going to seem more fluid in social situations, or, in the very least, know how to do this, even if I don't act in such a way.

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] have also brought up some insightful points as well, arguing for a 2 typing. I can say that both resonate well with me, but what my core is, that is what I'm really curious about.

As [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION] also mentioned, there is much of 4 that I relate to too. I've always felt different and external to my peers. I was made very much aware of this from a young age, that something was "off" from me. Could I be an So 4?? I know there's a thread about that, I should check that out as well to see if there is anything that may pertain to me there.

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone! Ultimately, I know I will have to make the decision since I know my core fears best. I'm fairly open on this site but still not THAT open haha. But receiving this outside perspective is always welcomed, AND helpful!

 

[Starry]

Thank you very much Starry! Immediately, I can say I am NOT a 9, if any strong emotion is pushed aside. I don't prefer the negative emotions, but I do see their value and would much rather feel them than ignore them. I like to try and understand what is happening, not turn a blind eye to it. Also, if 9s not only isolate themselves from negative emotions but positive emotions, then absolutely not! There is a part of me that will always appreciate and value my masters education as I went to an art school, and it wasn't until I was completely surrounded by other creative types, that I felt truly comfortable in my highly emotional, male self. Not that I ever tried to push this obnoxious male image of myself onto others, but I just never related to all the ideas of masculinity as often seen in pop culture, like at all.

Thank you for having me. Yah, this is a bit challenging because you are definitely made-up of 2 and 7...and most likely 9 as well although I would want to revisit 9 once you have decided on your core.

To the red: Reading that it's funny... I immediately want to say "what's in red rules-out a 7 core." Like, if you don't have an awareness of either avoiding or desperately wanting to avoid negative feelings then 7 starts to look more and more unlikely. *BUT* entranced 7s often believe that about themselves. Due to the fact we keep our core fear buried deep and are using relative terms...it is somewhat common really for 7s to actually believe they are addressing their problems, experiencing their negative feelings and facing their pain just like everyone else when they aren't... so there is a kind of here. Still with you...I think you mean what you are saying...like in that Amor Fati post...that was real. Like, you weren't just saying "all the right words"...those words are a part of you. Anyway, that might be something to consider.


I'm also wondering if the green isn't an indication of some healthy 4 integration which would be another point for 2. It is the 'stand and be accounted for' aspect of the 2 journey I was referring to...and I've seen you talk about art... or what I think of as *individual expression* in this way a few times before. Like art has really helped you come into your own. So yah, that's just another thing that stands out to me and mention it in case you wish to examine it.

I have to remind myself too, that as you mention, 2s can, and do give in ways other than by helping others. Heck, I even created a thread about this! I didn't forget what you mentioned there, but I'm afraid all the "helper" nonsense online has briefly overshadowed the posts found in that thread.

To end, I appreciate the other examples given, of how 2s can give. I like how they can potentially give by means of offering their attention, and acceptance, and along these lines, then yes, I could absolutely see myself as a 2. I don't think I ever actively knew I was doing this, but the common theme in my life growing up and to today, is that I tend to be the friend people come to for their emotional struggles. Not to fix their lives or anything, but mostly, just as an ear of non-judgment. A break from the judgments they may face outside in the real world. At least, that's how I'd like to be seen. Do I try to reinforce this "image"? I really don't, but it is at least, a value I seem to seek out in others time and time again, as I seek the acceptance in others, for who I am, and (brainstorming here) it wouldn't surprise me, if that is actually the root cause of all this, is my desire to be understood and accepted for who I am, without me having to play this role or that. The least I can do for the world, is to offer this value to others in the hopes that one day, I may cross paths with someone that shares this value, with me.

^Yah that's good Dreamer


Remember though... you strike me as someone that is on an ongoing quest for the best possible you...and you strike me as someone that will find the best possible you with or without the enneagram as your guide. And so in this way...I wouldn't worry too much about what your core type is...unless this is truly something you want for yourself. You certainly don't need it to participate here.

 

[PeaceBaby]

792, sounds like a tritype to me.

Accepting and caring 7. This is the most gentle, tenderhearted 7. This 7 is very caring and receptive. Sensitive to conflict, this 7 seeks peace and harmony, especially if a social subtype. This 7 must be upbeat, positive and happy to avoid feelings of fear and anxiety. The core fears are of emotional pain, sadness, disappointment, boredom, limitation, being incomplete, missing out, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, being shutout, inharmonious, being worthless, needy, unappreciated, immutable, and inconsequential.

 

[Dreamer]

Thank you for having me. Yah, this is a bit challenging because you are definitely made-up of 2 and 7...and most likely 9 as well although I would want to revisit 9 once you have decided on your core.

To the red: Reading that it's funny... I immediately want to say "what's in red rules-out a 7 core." Like, if you don't have an awareness of either avoiding or desperately wanting to avoid negative feelings then 7 starts to look more and more unlikely. *BUT* entranced 7s often believe that about themselves. Due to the fact we keep our core fear buried deep and are using relative terms...it is somewhat common really for 7s to actually believe they are addressing their problems, experiencing their negative feelings and facing their pain just like everyone else when they aren't... so there is a kind of here. Still with you...I think you mean what you are saying...like in that Amor Fati post...that was real. Like, you weren't just saying "all the right words"...those words are a part of you. Anyway, that might be something to consider.

You really have given me a plate full of delectable desserts to munch on this weekend. I've been running around but finally have some time to respond to this post. I'm glad I didn't respond right away though as it also gave me some time to digest this post. What you mention above I feel, actually drives the whole point of this thread home for me. I think the reason I am having such a hard time pinpointing my core or even a fix for myself is because when I sit down and really try to think about things, I don't know if I can pinpoint an underlying cause or root problem to my motivations. I am able to pick out my particular insecurities that I gained from childhood, but reading into the various enneagram types is like trying to pick out individual ingredients from a pot of stew that has been cooking for a few days. After a while, all the flavors just come together and meld. It's this lack of certainty and quest for being able to find that starting point, to then leap and grow from, is why I try to discover my enneagram type. But to jump to your last comment, I agree. I also don't need any particular typing system to grow. I just feel it may help or give me something to work with.

To get back to the above bolded, and why it stuck out to me so much, is that I DO believe I address my problems and fears, but I also think that if I were actually doing that, then there should be no problem in identifying my core weaknesses and associated E type right? It's almost as though I get just deep enough, to fool myself into thinking I am actively working on my issues, then check that off my list of things to do, and move on with a smile, when really, did I actually accomplish something? I wonder.

I'm also wondering if the green isn't an indication of some healthy 4 integration which would be another point for 2. It is the 'stand and be accounted for' aspect of the 2 journey I was referring to...and I've seen you talk about art... or what I think of as *individual expression* in this way a few times before. Like art has really helped you come into your own. So yah, that's just another thing that stands out to me and mention it in case you wish to examine it.

Just a quick comment here, interesting prospect of a healthy 4 integration in the example you identified. I do feel art has saved me on some level. I feel it was my way of recollecting myself and reconnecting with who I knew myself to be, after playing this character I really didn't identify with in school. I basically turned off who I was in front of my peers to protect against potential ridicule, but it really did kill me inside to do so. Finding that outlet allowed me to continue in many ways.

Remember though... you strike me as someone that is on an ongoing quest for the best possible you...and you strike me as someone that will find the best possible you with or without the enneagram as your guide. And so in this way...I wouldn't worry too much about what your core type is...unless this is truly something you want for yourself. You certainly don't need it to participate herev.

And I sort of unintentially already addressed this above, but you're right. I really don't need to grow through various typing systems. In my opinion, I actually find that route to be rather limiting, when people solely seek progress through this narrow lens of trying to "fix" my Fe or becoming some "healthy" version of a 3, like what does that even mean? Eh, this could be a topic for another thread, and people have their own strategies for growth, but for me, it isn't through typing myself. Though, as I mentioned above, it could help to give me some sort of starting point too.

 

[Dreamer]

Not quite closing the door on 2 at the moment as my core type, but after taking what everyone has mentioned, and looking at myself with this new perspective, I'm sticking up 7w6 into my profile. The question still lingers for me as to why I come off so differently from other ENFPs 7s on the forum, and that is where my initial doubt stemmed from, but there is just so much I also resonate with about the 7. I think 2 is also strong in me and perhaps is what gives me that outward "softness" and approachability perhaps?

But one thing really stood out to me, as mentioned by [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION] and @Evolving Transparency (in another chat) is that when I help people, I do so through offering up other perspectives and try to have them approach the same exact situation, through a different lens. (this is often how I deal with things too) I used to think I was solely aiding others through my Fi and empathy, and I'm sure I do at times, but what's interesting about this little discovery, is that when I'm tackling people's problems in this way, helping them see the other side and completely reverse their view on things, is that this is entirely a mental exercise for me, and while I enjoy helping others where I can, a good part of this interaction is also for me. I get such a mental high when thinking in this way. I always knew there was some mental stimulation element to helping out others, but I didn't know exactly, where that came from.

Seeing as how 7s are more cerebral rather than feeling through the heart, and how this approach of mine is actually so common, is one other reason I am thinking about 7 for my core.

Again, this isn't a 100% solid decision here, but at this point, I am fairly confident.

If anyone else has any thoughts or ideas, I'm always open to seeing their suggestions

 

[Kierva]

Not quite closing the door on 2 at the moment as my core type, but after taking what everyone has mentioned, and looking at myself with this new perspective, I'm sticking up 7w6 into my profile. The question still lingers for me as to why I come off so differently from other ENFPs 7s on the forum, and that is where my initial doubt stemmed from, but there is just so much I also resonate with about the 7. I think 2 is also strong in me and perhaps is what gives me that outward "softness" and approachability perhaps?

But one thing really stood out to me, as mentioned by [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION] and @Evolving Transparency (in another chat) is that when I help people, I do so through offering up other perspectives and try to have them approach the same exact situation, through a different lens. (this is often how I deal with things too) I used to think I was solely aiding others through my Fi and empathy, and I'm sure I do at times, but what's interesting about this little discovery, is that when I'm tackling people's problems in this way, helping them see the other side and completely reverse their view on things, is that this is entirely a mental exercise for me, and while I enjoy helping others where I can, a good part of this interaction is also for me. I get such a mental high when thinking in this way. I always knew there was some mental stimulation element to helping out others, but I didn't know exactly, where that came from.

Seeing as how 7s are more cerebral rather than feeling through the heart, and how this approach of mine is actually so common, is one other reason I am thinking about 7 for my core.

Again, this isn't a 100% solid decision here, but at this point, I am fairly confident.

If anyone else has any thoughts or ideas, I'm always open to seeing their suggestions

There we go,
This is the ED I know

 

[Dreamer]

There we go,
This is the ED I know

Thanks again for the help Kierva! Your insight really did help to get me to take a serious look at 7 again.

 

[thoughtlost]

Hey [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

It's great that you feel more confident in your personal enneagram understanding! I had a similar issue where I didn't type myself corrrectly because I didn't look like other people of my core type (this is NOT a positive thing in my case haha). Understanding yourself is a personal thing and something that won't simply happen even if you spent years studying enneagram and considering tritype and instincts and all these other theories. For example, it took SO long (like 6-7 years lol) to understand that I was a core 9 and not just part of my "tritype" even with people telling me that I am one and even with me reading that description again and again and again. Nothing compared to walking away from any typing system and just dealing with myself in the real world. I know I am going to sound all special snowflakey but while it's true that some of us may share the same box, you can't develop a rich understanding of yourself by only focusing on the box! Learning to study yourself is like being "street smart" and learning enneagram is like being "book smart"

It's psychologically practical to be "street smart" and you can grow so much more by being street smart, but it's still really intellectually beautiful to know that there is a psychological framework for our mental mindsets and it sort of tickles my brain haha.


To me, it sounds like you're a healthy person and what defines you is a need to keep moving/explore yourself and figure out what is out there for you to learn from so you don't stay stagnant. You get SO excited when something can churn your mind and bring something new into your life. This is how I will always understand you, no matter what type you settle on because this has always been true whenever I interact with you. Also, things that would be scary such as big life changes, you take with energetic grace. In fact, there is LITERALLY nothing negative I can say about you or nothing that I can point out that you should improve on. When that happens, it's usually because they make OTHER people so happy that the person gets praised for being what other people like. You never become a mindless sheep like that. You take charge of your own life and you want to live the best way you can!!!

For you, your core "enneagram" isn't something you are using to block yourself in life like most of the population is doing lol (7s don't like limiting themselves anyway lol). You're part of the percentage that is using it in a healthy way. I think what is hard for people to understand that is that people can be pretty healthy. Sure, you may still have psychological issues that pop up, but they are issues that you have the proper tools to handle in a positive way.

On this forum, people operate under the assumption that we're all handling life in a dysfunctional way, at least at average levels of psychological functioning. People type themselves based off of that. Although it's true that most people in the world are not being their best selves, I still think it's possible to have the core of any type and have it be really healthy, to both the person with the enneagram type and to everyone else.

Also, it's important to keep in mind that sometimes people really are not that different from each other. Advice that applies to a 7 can also apply to some other types! For example, a 9 should want to be more like a 7! BOTH should and do want to live their lives their own way ...that's how both of them will be happy and healthy. Even 2s and 3s and 6s get that advice often. It's just that depending on the individual, it's harder or easier to live by that advice no matter what your enneagram is.

It doesn't mean that you should think you don't have a core type, but you'll approach enneagram in a way that works for you and not how it works for everyone else!