INTP says I'm not INTP, but an INTJ? Please Help.

[FiyaXiii]

[MENTION=26674]Nørrsken[/MENTION]
Thank you so much for your patience and for getting back to me so quick.
I still have 2 ENTJs who I've asked whether they've ever noticed any Ni or Te in me, and both have previously commented 'high Fe' for me which others seem to disagree with, and also said they couldn't see any Ni/Te, and that's why I've just been even more confused(basically been in that weird place where Ti doms give you a 'No' and points at the other way, and then Te doms also give you a 'No' and points at the Ti way and you're left not knowing which side you're even supposed to be standing on).

Cause with the logic that I had, if I was INTJ and in a Ni-Fi loop cause of the years of mental abuse and manipulation, I was thinking that a Te dom would have a better chance of detecting my subdued Te, but apparently that's not how it works or??

Thought, do you mind clarifying how with my last response, you finally were able to conclude that I was INTJ?

Like which part sounded Ni/Te/Fi/Se over there? I'm just trying to understand the exact logic here and not just go with a type cause another Ni dom said so Y'know, for overall assurance.

 

[Norrsken]

[MENTION=26674]Nørrsken[/MENTION]
Thank you so much for your patience and for getting back to me so quick.
I still have 2 ENTJs who I've asked whether they've ever noticed any Ni or Te in me, and both have previously commented 'high Fe' for me which others seem to disagree with, and also said they couldn't see any Ni/Te, and that's why I've just been even more confused(basically been in that weird place Ti doms give you a 'No' and points at the other way, and a Te dom also give you a 'No' and points at the Ti way).

Cause with the logic that I had, if I was INTJ and in a Ni-Fi loop cause of the years of mental abuse and manipulation, I was thinking that a Te dom would have a better chance of detecting my subdued Te, but apparently that's not how it works or??

Thought, do you mind clarifying how with my last response, you finally were able to conclude that I was INTJ?

Like which part sounded Ni/Te/Fi/Se over there? I'm just trying to understand the exact logic here and not just go with a type cause another Ni dom said so Y'know, for overall assurance.

I do sometimes try discussing ideas with others, but I get this really odd feeling or this internal voice telling me to move on basically and do things on my own, saying if I do it my way without involving others so soon (it basically tells me to go to others around the end), I'll be covering a lot of stuff on my own, and that way I'd avoid asking stupid or obvious questions to others too early or even ask super complex questions and be doing things in a 'better way'.
By now, the only thing I'm willing to change up is the 'ask others at the very end' part. I'll still do read-throughs, googling and searching on my own, and then with what I have gathered, I'll take the key points and then discuss these things with others. Then I'll go back and do even thorough analyses and absorption. So yeah, mostly do things my own way with a few discussions here and there when I'm really tensed.



Success to me is achieving something that will show you that there's been a positive change to something, or that something has gone the way that you've really wanted it to be and a way you've worked or dedicated your energy and time out for so that thing could be the way you preferred.
I both want the idea of success and success that is measurable tbh.



I actually don't mind leadership roles and often feel like some 'leaders' I've had did poorly and I was super critical or skeptical of them. Currently I'm not in any position to be assigned any leadership role through school or work, but I often do get told that I'll make a decent leader. I've come to realize that I'm not always willing to step up for leadership roles, but if I believe that the other choices are poor or that I have to prove something, then I'll most definitely try to achieve such a position.


Oh no, I definitely need to do some thinking and sentence rehearing in my head before I verbalize them. Sometimes I even rehearse them under my breath lol. Even so, I also end up pulling doing the usual ad lib.


It depends on the conversation and the object. But, if I had to go by experience, usually it's been the lesser the better, since that's how I personally always handled it the best. Though I don't mind if the number of people conversing expands either.





Things that make me emotionally react would be when people try to normalize certain toxic things in the name of tradition and culture or with the excuse that, "X amount of people have grown up being benefited by not having the internet for education and listening to every single thing their parents have dictated. X amount of young adults were physically disciplined and they still respect their parents. Those who can't be like X are flawed and should not be supported in any shape or form." Cases where people victim blame because it's the easier option, those are pretty much stuff that gets me feeling pretty sensitive emotionally, and the fact that culture and tradition can get in the way so often to make things so hard for people.

Some other things that get me so 'sensitive' during those stressful times I was thinking of earlier would be when I'm being accused of something. I often can't control my tone when being accused of something /I/ find outrageous (does not apply if it's by elders who're unrelated to me or people who I work for) and I'm quick to respond or interrupt someone when they're speaking aggressively during an argument. I do this cause I feel like I have a ton of good points that I want to address and every time they touch more points, I get even more stuff to add. Plus sometimes I often fear that I might miss forget addressing a previous argument they had, hence why I come off as 'sensitive' to people.



Definitely? In-fact, that's exactly what I turn to so I can recharge myself and then get back to the right track. Like, if I'm under a lot of pressure or dealing with unreasonable people who I can't reason with currently, I try to isolate myself and indulge myself with sensory delights and then get back to work slowly.


Definitely, because at home I never really get much privacy around my family and when I do, I spend that time indulging in sensory delights or basically engaging in things I've always wanted to get done, like maybe get into a discussion that I've been itching to share my thoughts on, practice my 4th or 5th language skills out-loud or just learn something new that's not directly related to my studies, but can interest me very strongly. Those solitary moments kind of feel like power up moments to me.

I will definitely come back and do a thorough explanations about my typing for you later on today if that is okay with you?

 

[Norrsken]

I do sometimes try discussing ideas with others, but I get this really odd feeling or this internal voice telling me to move on basically and do things on my own, saying if I do it my way without involving others so soon (it basically tells me to go to others around the end), I'll be covering a lot of stuff on my own, and that way I'd avoid asking stupid or obvious questions to others too early or even ask super complex questions and be doing things in a 'better way'.
By now, the only thing I'm willing to change up is the 'ask others at the very end' part. I'll still do read-throughs, googling and searching on my own, and then with what I have gathered, I'll take the key points and then discuss these things with others. Then I'll go back and do even thorough analyses and absorption. So yeah, mostly do things my own way with a few discussions here and there when I'm really tensed.

To me, this seems Te as Te users tend to be pretty objective and quick in their decision making. Not that they don't care about other's opinions, but the emotions of other people don't take such a big front seat in their decisions unlike, say, Fe doms such as ENFJ and ESFJ people tend to do.

Success to me is achieving something that will show you that there's been a positive change to something, or that something has gone the way that you've really wanted it to be and a way you've worked or dedicated your energy and time out for so that thing could be the way you preferred.
I both want the idea of success and success that is measurable tbh.

The first sentence made me sense that you have a knack for taking anything that someone would ask you (Example: Me asking you about the definition of success just now.) and answer it in a subjective fashion, which makes me think you are an intuitive type rather than a sensor. Your way of describing what you want seems linear and to the point, which points to Ni rather than Ne.

I actually don't mind leadership roles and often feel like some 'leaders' I've had did poorly and I was super critical or skeptical of them. Currently I'm not in any position to be assigned any leadership role through school or work, but I often do get told that I'll make a decent leader. I've come to realize that I'm not always willing to step up for leadership roles, but if I believe that the other choices are poor or that I have to prove something, then I'll most definitely try to achieve such a position.

It's great that you have a lot of confidence in yourself to take on these challenges to make positive changes for the team.

Oh no, I definitely need to do some thinking and sentence rehearing in my head before I verbalize them. Sometimes I even rehearse them under my breath lol. Even so, I also end up pulling doing the usual ad lib.

Introvert!

It depends on the conversation and the object. But, if I had to go by experience, usually it's been the lesser the better, since that's how I personally always handled it the best. Though I don't mind if the number of people conversing expands either.

Introvert!

Things that make me emotionally react would be when people try to normalize certain toxic things in the name of tradition and culture or with the excuse that, "X amount of people have grown up being benefited by not having the internet for education and listening to every single thing their parents have dictated. X amount of young adults were physically disciplined and they still respect their parents. Those who can't be like X are flawed and should not be supported in any shape or form." Cases where people victim blame because it's the easier option, those are pretty much stuff that gets me feeling pretty sensitive emotionally, and the fact that culture and tradition can get in the way so often to make things so hard for people.

I'm the same, I used to get so angry with people who insist that past information must always be correct when I know that there is so much more to explore yet.

Some other things that get me so 'sensitive' during those stressful times I was thinking of earlier would be when I'm being accused of something. I often can't control my tone when being accused of something /I/ find outrageous (does not apply if it's by elders who're unrelated to me or people who I work for) and I'm quick to respond or interrupt someone when they're speaking aggressively during an argument. I do this cause I feel like I have a ton of good points that I want to address and every time they touch more points, I get even more stuff to add. Plus sometimes I often fear that I might miss forget addressing a previous argument they had, hence why I come off as 'sensitive' to people.

It sounds like you're under a lot of pressure at this time in your life. Do you try to take some time for yourself? It is okay to know that sometimes, you cannot please everyone, you can only do the best and the people who matter most will support you while the ones who don't, don't matter at all and shouldn't matter if their goal is to just bring you down to their level. I think you're doing a fantastic job!

Definitely? In-fact, that's exactly what I turn to so I can recharge myself and then get back to the right track. Like, if I'm under a lot of pressure or dealing with unreasonable people who I can't reason with currently, I try to isolate myself and indulge myself with sensory delights and then get back to work slowly.

Sounds like Se, but you only use it for when you need to decompress.

Definitely, because at home I never really get much privacy around my family and when I do, I spend that time indulging in sensory delights or basically engaging in things I've always wanted to get done, like maybe get into a discussion that I've been itching to share my thoughts on, practice my 4th or 5th language skills out-loud or just learn something new that's not directly related to my studies, but can interest me very strongly. Those solitary moments kind of feel like power up moments to me.

With this and the rest of the information, it seems that you lead with a strong Ni and Te and then you use Se to relax. Hence why I suggested INTJ earlier.

I hoped I helped some!

 

[FiyaXiii]

I just want to do [MENTION=29903]Mayflower[/MENTION]'s form just to be sure. I really don't want to be another one of those numerous faux Ni doms? If any of you see some other function stacking possibility or other types for me, like IxFP or whatever, feel free to tell me what your logic is.

1. During your youth (7'ish to 18), What did you focus on the most? What activities did you like and why? What aspect of life was lax in attention?
Trying pursue various hobbies, figure out stuff I was good at (self discovery), understand other people's psychology (my mother kept on roasting me all my life that I was bad at reading the situation so I wanted to beat her and be the best at reading people and I kinda got sorta good at one point, better than her ;P) and battling depression around the end years.

2. You're in you senior year of high school (or whatever equivalent) and you are looking back over the last couple of years. What was your favorite aspect of the schooling experience and why? Favorite subject and why?
Uhhh...maybe some unique personal achievement I had throughout the year, highlights with closest mate(s) and maybe some club activity. My favourite subject would be Biology and just because I like going all House M.D on people or just being a smartass when it comes to Bio. Second would be AstroPhysics or Psychology, if not a language. I prefer going with a Science subject since my dream career is in the STEM field soo.

3. A couple of friends call and invite you out to a restaurant. While there, you all are pleasantly conversing and one of your friends makes a comment that irked you. What are your thoughts and how do you respond?
I'd ask them to clarify by what they meant, and then explain what I understood from that. If I understood it right and their comment is just bothersome, I'll try debating them, just cause they're my friend. My friends know I can be like that at times and still be polite/formal, unless the person is very fresh or new to my life.

4. Your schooling is done and it's time to strike out into the world!! What sort of career do you want to go into and why?
STEM. To be more specific, something involving genetics. I'm stuck between geneticist and genetic engineer. Why? Cause 1) Good salary 2) Interesting subject 3)Will be doing something revolutionary.

5. A friend is getting married and they put you in charge of the cake. You narrowed it down to two places to make an order. The first is a bakery with whom you got a good relationship with. The other is a well-known cake maker to whom everyone goes to (your friend hints to it as well). Which one do you choose and why?
The second one, duh. My friend hints to it, everyone goes to it? It's her wedding and her guests need to be pleased too? This isn't about me, it's her day and it should be all about her. No time to play, 'SURPRISE'?


6. You get into an argument with a friend/family member/co-worker. They criticize one of your personality traits. What would most likely be the focus of their critique?
Hmmm, lemme be nice and list a bunch of 'traits'. Maybe that I'm too stubborn, aggressive, rude, obnoxious, 'always has to be right', nosy and over-technical or extreme.

7. It's New Years! You and your friends are out and about after a party. Being drunk, one of your friends suggests to do something....'questionable' (Nothing serious. I.e, drugs, escort, etc.). What are your thoughts and how do you respond?
I'd be leaving, I rarely do parties and parties like that are beyond my comfort zone cause I feel like they can easily go out of hand. I dunno, I'm paranoid easily, they'd have more fun without me and I'd feel safer without them or the urge to control everyone and be their mother.

8. A new art gallery opens up and your friend wants to go to the grand opening. Both of you analyze all the paintings and sculptures. What about these works warrants the most attention from you? Why?
Not big on art most of the time, right until I'm there and viewing some extraordinary pieces or things that are realistic looking or just really intricate and complex. I like stuff with history too, so if I was drawn to something at an art gallery, it'd have to be something like that. Why? Simply because of my tastes, like I said, not too big on art usually and it takes a lot to catch my attention.

9. You have been saving up and decide to buy a new car. At the dealership, you peruse the lots. What are the criteria and factors that influence your choice? Which one would initially be your main focus?
I'll keep this simple;
The cheapest and safest one, has to have air conditioning and good heating. That's literally it.

10. Yep, you now have a kid (sex of your choosing)! Years pass and they are now 15 years old. You notice their personality traits are the complete opposite of how you were when at their age. Describe how they are. Describe the possible conflicts that would arise between both of you due to differing temperaments.

(Not choosing the sex :O How could you make me choose? /gasp)
Think someone like Taylor Swift, but a more ESFP-ish and impulsive version of her? Most stereotypical ESFP/ESTP/ESFJ personalities I find are usually my complete opposites. I'd imagine my kid partying a lot and breaking a lot of rules but after emotional bonding and thorough explaining, hey'd understand my point of view and we'd hopefully get along? If not, I'd have to be a strict parent xD

 

[Mayflower]

I heard my name!.. I'm getting an INTJ vibe. Te is stronger than Ti, that is for sure.

 

[FiyaXiii]

[MENTION=29903]Mayflower[/MENTION] I know you said INTJ vibe already, but what're your more specific comments on Ni/Ne and Se/Si?
I'm trying to rule out IxFP completely. I was talking to an ENTJ earlier who kept on telling me that he thought my Te had to be at a really lower position, but he also insisted that he doesn't type people so alas, I'm here trying to figure things out and see what other people think as well.

Also, do you have any comments on sociotype?

 

[Ayuhime]

I would say INTJ as well.

See, when I read all your posts, my immediate first question was "Okay but doesn't asking this all mean being confused over how functions are described so wouldn't it be wiser to ask how functions are defined again and try to see how you relate with them, as well as defining the reasons why you think you are likely or unlikely to be X type and tell how you view functions, which lead you to come to decision that you lead with Z and your auxilary is T?"

First thing caught my attention was lack of urge to define how you describe/view functions as well as asking how others most likely saw them, not asking them their view of functions to see if your understanding of them were correct and wrong and if latter was the case, why? A Ti dominant would most likely be lost without clarifying those first. So I would have to agree with Te-Fi over Ti-Fe.

You give a lot more of aux Te-Tert Fi vibe though. Citing/Quoting your ISTJ friend and INTP friend with giving background information on situation to show validity of why you question it. There is also this Tert-Fi thing I am not sure how to explain... It is something I picked up especially when it came to INTP vs INTJ, INTJ explains what they went through in a more "personal" fashion. An INTP would most likely feel the necessarity of "softening" it when they say they went through a rough childhood, there is often a Fe need of not wanting to sound "whiny".

For Ni-Se/Ne-Si, I think it is most likely Ni-Se. There is a lot more intentionality and straightforwardness while giving a broad brush strike to others and expecting it to be obvious to others sense than Ne-Si seeking out views/going into side tangents etc. You also describe a lot of physical activities/relaxing with sensory experiences while relaxing, which is somewhat rare for INTPs?

Hmm... Nørrsken mostly dissected your posts with pointing out what function they indicated so I don't think there is much to add about that.

What I can say is, in short, most likely Ni-Te. There is a lot more intentionality and Ni-vibe of holding back a lot of actually important but seen as "obvious" by self details (ie explaining what function descriptions you base your understanding on so other side can see how and why you see things better, which seems to be pretty ignored whole 3 pages and not really brought up other than at the start where you said how ISTJ friend said you had Te vibe and INTP described Ti-Fe in a way that made sense and missing HOW exactly you described them to him and what he countered with and his explanation for it, etc. since they are things you know and pretty obvious?) which would be related to Ni-dom and I tried to explain the reason why Te instead of Ti.

May reply again later and try to give a more clear/understandable answer.

 

[Mayflower]

Hmm. Have you watched any of Michael Pierce's videos? He describes the functions in a clear way. Socionics wise, I don't see you as a Fi dom or any jugdment dom. INTp is possible, but don't trust me on Socionics.

 

[chubber]

LOL, the OP, really does seem like an INTP. Arguing about being an INTP.

 

[FiyaXiii]

See, when I read all your posts, my immediate first question was "Okay but doesn't asking this all mean being confused over how functions are described so wouldn't it be wiser to ask how functions are defined again and try to see how you relate with them, as well as defining the reasons why you think you are likely or unlikely to be X type and tell how you view functions, which lead you to come to decision that you lead with Z and your auxilary is T?"

I personally don't think I'm that confused with the functions, and I'm already asking others about it, which is why I'm not making that a priority here and instead my priority or target is to explain myself and see the vibe others get, hear out their reasoning, check out what they are saying and then conclude and be secure with my choice once and for all.

If I really had to point out 2 functions I struggle between the most, it's Ni Vs. Ne, it wasn't like that earlier cause I used to think it was obvious that I preferred Ne. Why? Because I have a tendency to be scattered with topics and jump from one topic to another knowing they're all connected somehow and because I was looking at some other INTPs explain Ne and I was like, "Yeah, I totally identify with that."

And I'm obsessed with being technical, being all prissy when people get too personal and subjective instead of being objective. That said, this could be a personal bias and when I watch the entirety of the Michael Pierce Ne vs Ni video [MENTION=29903]Mayflower[/MENTION] suggested (yes, I did watch his videos), I only related to Ne until the Red Balloon part or around 8:00.

Other than that, I didn't want to put in my own opinions earlier just because I wanted feedback from people based on how I answered or filled up forms. Now, I think I'm okay with saying I identify with Se and I feel like I have Fi too. I had trouble seeing my Te, but since people see it and I'm recovering from a very bad place in my life, I'm starting to see it too and be more objective with myself. I used to think that I was too optimistic as a child and I hated that, so for a very long time in my teenage years, I somehow went into this cynical or pessimistic perspective for myself just so I could make myself stronger, y'know tough love and all. Also because my parents kept on telling me I wasn't hard enough on myself.



[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]
I'm not really arguing 'about being an INTP', I just want to rule that or whatever other types out because I hate being uncertain or going back and forth between types and possibly identifying as a false Ni dom. The internet has got enough of false Ni doms and it's frustrating, and I'd hate to be one of them even as a mistake It's such a waste of time too, going back and forth questioning your type a bunch of times per year, and I'd rather be 80-90% sure of a certain type for myself, move on and then continue asking more important question regarding personality theories or contribute somehow to all this, just cause I feel like this field of typology is incomplete or needs more fine-tuning.

 

[chubber]

[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]
I'm not really arguing 'about being an INTP', I just want to rule that or whatever other types out because I hate being uncertain or going back and forth between types and possibly identifying as a false Ni dom. The internet has got enough of false Ni doms and it's frustrating, and I'd hate to be one of them even as a mistake It's such a waste of time too, going back and forth questioning your type a bunch of times per year, and I'd rather be 80-90% sure of a certain type for myself, move on and then continue asking more important question regarding personality theories or contribute somehow to all this, just cause I feel like this field of typology is incomplete or needs more fine-tuning.

Do you relate to inferior Fe or Se or perhaps something else?

 

[Mayflower]

"And I'm obsessed with being technical, being all prissy when people get too personal and subjective instead of being objective."

I think this is the deciding point. Can you elaborate on the above statement?

I used this a while back to help people with the Je/Ji axis:

Te/Fi: "This way is the most efficient and productive (Te) but is it the right way of going about it? (Fi)
Fe/Ti: "Everyone seems to like this way, so I guess it's fine (Fe) but is it logically coherent to my internal framework? (Ti)

 

[FiyaXiii]

[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]
I used to be 'confident' about Inferior Fe the past year, now it's Inferior Se after looking back on the past few years and taking into account that I was going through depression and all. Like I said just now, I see Se and Fi, so I feel comfortable with Se now, and especially re-reading that PerC post on the Inferior Fe and Se thing for the 4th time lol.


[MENTION=29903]Mayflower[/MENTION]

Dang, I feel like I identify with both examples there?? With me, I feel like I have rare strong 'right ways' (unless my right ways are fact based evidence or some serious personal experience that I know I can eventually bring up with facts or sound logic), because I am open to considering multiple things and trying to be open-minded. If people don't say my way is the right way, I try to understand why they'd say that and all, and take their feedback in. But I'll say one thing, when it comes to "Everyone seems to like this way, so I guess it's fine" (Fe), I most often question why everyone 'seems to like' the way and even though I try to be polite and formal, I end up offending certain people unknowingly by asking questions at times, or lowkey or highkey being pissed off myself at people. Soo, that's another thing that seems more Fi than Fe, right?

As for my opinion on Ti now;earlier that had me going,'That is so me', but now the more I look at Ti, the more I see how likely it is that I was Ni-Fi looping and had been confusing Fi for Ti(Y'know, cause mirror judging functions).

Logically Coherent to my internal framework = the right way. I highly value being logically coherent to my internal framework to be accurate with how I function and to excel, so I can be the most productive with whatever I'm doing.

 

[chubber]

[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]
I used to be 'confident' about Inferior Fe the past year, now it's Inferior Se after looking back on the past few years and taking into account that I was going through depression and all. Like I said just now, I see Se and Fi, so I feel comfortable with Se now, and especially re-reading that PerC post on the Inferior Fe and Se thing for the 4th time lol.

What do you think of inferior Si?

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

First of all, I will ask you : what is the point of all this ? Why do you need an answer ?
I see this kind of behaviour when subject to personnal identity crisis. You wan external framework to fit you coming also with your own preconception.
This leads you to indulge in self-validation (Barnum effect) which is the same process we see about Tarot.
Let le give you an advice : instead of wanting being defined, just take what is relevant for you and be the actor of your own life. While I think functions at their core are not a bad model of cognitive process, I think you will gain nothing """knowing""" you are INTP or so on.
You tend to consider your fiends as references but where is the proof of what they say ? Extroversion and Inteoversion are not defined on a static way, they are continuous processes across time. Imagine a curve : positive y axis is E and negative I...your function balances between spaces.
The only use I see to this is self-indulgence in behaviours we have not the will to change.
You want to """be INTP"""...just be ! MBTI behavioural descriptions are irrelevant because they deform data to validate their theory while excluding all others factors.
Just observe the world and your existence and you will see that it is stupid. If you see yourself in two categories, it is because you have probably lived both...
You want a practical approach ?
1) Write a table with four columns : strengths, weeknesses, desired strenghts, actions to take
2) Order actions in an order which has meaning for you
3) Act

 

[FiyaXiii]

What do you think of inferior Si?

Strong No. Way too wild

For all those, the things I was mostly looking at were the
Expressions Through Interests and Hobbies (hobbies and interests for relaxation is diverse, from listening to asmr, rollerblading, cardio, hitting the gym, dance, napping, reading books or researching stuff whilst listening to soothing music at the same time or just making aesthetics or looking for pretty pictures or clips), Typical Provocations or Triggers ( 1.Dealing with details, especially in an unfamiliar environment, can trigger inferior Extraverted Sensing in Introverted Intuitive types. In fact, these types frequently mention that feeling overwhelmed by details often provokes characteristic inferior function reactions. Unexpected events that interrupt planned activities can also unsettle INTJs and INFJs enough to arouse their inferior function.)and Triggers and Stressors at Work. (Work settings that do not permit sufficient autonomy or that offer few opportunities to work alone and intensively, and that do not provide the opportunity to be creative, think independently, and accomplish goals, are extremely stressful and undesirable for Introverted Intuitive types. INTJs and INFJs hold very high standards of excellence for themselves and others, so issues of competence at work are quite important.

INTJs in particular are intolerant of and impatient with inefficiency and with others’ avoidance of problems.They like to get to the heart of an issue immediately, which sometimes makes others uncomfortable.

 

[FiyaXiii]

First of all, I will ask you : what is the point of all this ? Why do you need an answer ?
I see this kind of behaviour when subject to personnal identity crisis. You wan external framework to fit you coming also with your own preconception.
This leads you to indulge in self-validation (Barnum effect) which is the same process we see about Tarot.
Let le give you an advice : instead of wanting being defined, just take what is relevant for you and be the actor of your own life. While I think functions at their core are not a bad model of cognitive process, I think you will gain nothing """knowing""" you are INTP or so on.
You tend to consider your fiends as references but where is the proof of what they say ? Extroversion and Inteoversion are not defined on a static way, they are continuous processes across time. Imagine a curve : positive y axis is E and negative I...your function balances between spaces.
The only use I see to this is self-indulgence in behaviours we have not the will to change.
You want to """be INTP"""...just be ! MBTI behavioural descriptions are irrelevant because they deform data to validate their theory while excluding all others factors.
Just observe the world and your existence and you will see that it is stupid. If you see yourself in two categories, it is because you have probably lived both...
You want a practical approach ?
1) Write a table with four columns : strengths, weeknesses, desired strenghts, actions to take
2) Order actions in an order which has meaning for you
3) Act

I already explained 'why' before? Thank you for attempting to help me out with your advice, but I can't really find that useful and our ideas or logic obviously clash, or we're meeting each-other half-way somehow.

The tendency to accept certain information as true, such as character assessments or horoscopes, even when the information is so vague as to be worthless is what's known as the Barnum effect. Not once have I insisted that I wish to be any particular type? So that accusation is really out there, that's for sure. I've even said, that if after this conversation I rule out 15 types, I'll be sticking with 1 type that I'd naturally fit in with the most with, and also be 80-90% sure of it, because MBTI and the cognitive functions are incomplete and need more fine-tuning. I have no clue how you could read through all that and still think, Barnum effect afterwards? With your logic, it sounded almost like indulging in any sort of typology based thing will eventually lead to the Barnum effect, which I'm sure you didn't mean to say but lol, it's just how you phrased things.

 

[FoulcherDeChartres]

Which logic do you speak about ? There is no logic, just facts and proven theories (which is not the case about MBTI). The "you" in the two first sentences are impersonnal and not directed towards you.

This...

As for my opinion on Ti now;earlier that had me going,'That is so me', but now the more I look at Ti, the more I see how likely it is that I was Ni-Fi looping and had been confusing Fi for Ti(Y'know, cause mirror judging functions).

...is Barnum effect.

Indeed, you haven't told us your CORE motives an this is precisely why I ask you. You may feel it is irrelevant but is is not and ironically it will probably give people a MUCH more valuable insight that just refering to dummy assesments like isolated behaviour-functions associations (you cannot induce one from one when one derive from many).

So, what is your true motive ?

 

[FiyaXiii]

Which logic do you speak about ? There is no logic, just facts and proven theories (which is not the case about MBTI). The "you" in the two first sentences are impersonnal and not directed towards you.

This...



...is Barnum effect.

Indeed, you haven't told us your CORE motives an this is precisely why I ask you. You may feel it is irrelevant but is is not and ironically it will probably give people a MUCH more valuable insight that just refering to dummy assesments like isolated behaviour-functions associations (you cannot induce one from one when one derive from many).

So, what is your true motive ?

I can tell English isn't your first language and that there's a language barrier here. But no, that doesn't apply to the Barnum effect's actual definition. There's a difference between replying to people asking you questions (re-read the my previous replies or the questions chubbers and the others were asking me here) and the person replying to them, and a person having strong unshakeable beliefs that are formed through vague or incomplete information. You're jumping over to a completely different tangent here actually. If you're going to tell people about the Barnum effect incorrectly and talk about facts when it comes to literal pseudoscience and personality theories, and especially on a page where someone's wanting assistance on getting to their closest possible MBTI type, I really don't see what you're trying to achieve there. If you don't agree with MBTI, why would you bother trying to assist people who're strictly trying to first grasp MBTI functions concepts first? If you bothered reading my previous replies from just a page ago (like right at the bottom of the page too fam), you'd know what my 'main goal' for being as sure of my type as possible was?? Since you were so quick to jump in and come to a conclusion with the whole 'Barnum effect' without even getting the full picture of what's going on here, I won't spoil the fun for you now

Currently the only person asking me my true motive or core motive is you (motives and instincts are mostly enneagram based, I think you'll be more satisfied helping people out with enneatypes), but I'm not going to repeat my answers over and over again. Please click page 3 to looks at my bottom answers, and if you wish to offer input regardless afterwards, you're free to do so and I thank you for taking interest then I suppose.

UPDATE: In-case it isn't blatantly obvious (just based off of how I've been phrasing things, c'mon), I'm collecting information and also having people post their perspectives on certain functions they see too. That combined with whatever else I said last page.

 

[chubber]

The reason why I think [MENTION=27266]FiyaXiii[/MENTION] is not an INTJ is, because INTJs are in most cases brutally honest, as in kick you in the teeth while you're down. Not because they are on the lookout to beat people but it is just the way that Te shows while Ni focuses on seeking how something works from inside out.

This is another confusion that both Ti and Ni in MBTI defines that they want to get to the root cause as to how something works.

This is where socionics shines in comparison.

Another confusion is both of these type's main function Ni and Ti: In MBTI they take Ti as philosophical/abstract thought but in socionics that's actually Ni. Still in socionics Ti is a function that categorise things in a structured yet subjective manner, but it has nothing to do with abstraction. In MBTI, Ni is described as sort of a synthesis, "minimalist" function that goes to the root of a problem and try to solve it.

And lastly, I have a link to an example of INTJ and INTP pair.