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Ne or Ni?

Amber97

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Aug 26, 2016
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57
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?
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so/sx
Hey guys, I'm wondering whether I use Ne or Ni. I've been trying to research it but I haven't really come across anything that really takes the cake for me. In the past I've been typed INTJ and ISFP, though recently it's been ENTP and INFP which seems like a very strange jump. Would you mind giving me some help/asking questions to pin it down for me? Thank you so much~~
 

Rouskyrie

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Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
396
Hey guys, I'm wondering whether I use Ne or Ni. I've been trying to research it but I haven't really come across anything that really takes the cake for me. In the past I've been typed INTJ and ISFP, though recently it's been ENTP and INFP which seems like a very strange jump. Would you mind giving me some help/asking questions to pin it down for me? Thank you so much~~

Taken from MBTI at a Glance - Cognitive Function Theory : (Interesting and thorough blog)

"Ni:
-attends to subjective abstract meaning
-oriented to underlying causes & patterns
-looks for depth in understanding unknowns
-experiences the world through “what will be”
-seeks to maximize intuitive clarity
-idealistic, synthesizes unified vision
-rationalizing, defensive of inner world

Ne:
-attends to objective abstract connections
-oriented to conceptual ideas & possibilities
-looks for unique connections of details
-experiences the world through “what could be”
-seeks to maximize openness to change
-creative, generates ideas for progress
-impatient, impractical, unstable self"

From what I've seen of your posts, you strike me as more of an Ne user. More specifically, an INFP. However, as an ENTP, Ni would be your fifth function and as an INFP, it would be your sixth.

As another Tumblr blog defines those functions:

"5th Function -

This one is comparable to your tertiary in strenght/ tends to be in the “average use” bracket, depending on how much you’ve developed your teriary of course, but you probably hardly use it and find doing so very exhausting or counterproductive. Nonetheless, the fifth function is the one shadow function that you can consciously flip on to its full extent without needing to learn how to do so, when the situation calls for it, but it’s likely that you don’t want you:
In fact it’s called “opposing” or “negative hero” function because you might really resist having to use this one, or feeling you need to filter it out. Take, for example, and INTP for whom the 5th function is Te - INTPs are not known for organizational skills (to say the least) and like many perceivers actually feel uncomfortable with too much sheduling, but there’s more to it, because in a way it represents an alternative approach: Te is concerned with finding what seems to work on an almost completely empirical basis, Ti, at least in a high-end user, is about finding out why things work or putting them in a self-consistent framework where most factors are accounted for - ultimately even here we need room for a reasonable doubt,
The Te shadow might be the reason for this phenomenon where the diaries of some reclusive, reasonable INTP-ish researchers are found, and it’s discovered that they were well ahead of their time (Gauss is a famous example) and had the next decades’ worth of advances sitting right there, but didn’t pblish them because they weren’t fully sure off/ satisfied with their
Since “pragmatic feasibility” (or whatever your fifth function is) is already a sort of devil’s advocate in your head, it can also come out in arguments/debates, when you’re “opposing” others - Say, your criticise an INTPs model/theory/conclusion, and they will pull some facts, studies, or feasibility considerations to support their conclusions. (I’ve actually observd this in myself) Or, I read one INTJ reflecting on the Ne shadow; The person observed how when their ideas are criticised, they would defend them via “finding alternatives” - For how the person they’re arguing with could be wrong, or how to patch up/ bugfix their Ni-derived idea with minor changes.
I’m not fully sure how this would work for someone leading with a feeling function, but I have noticed a pattern that I previously just chalked up to my general poor people skills and delicacy, where an ISFP in my family (5th function: Fe) would become upset about something that went wrong/ she felt she mucked up, and I would try to move to comfort her in what might have been a clumsy-tastic way, and she would react really negatively and get out the snarky voice. Now it has dawned on me that dealing with me in addition to the initial situation probably just added extra stress and that I should probably let her finish reacting internally instead of repeating my points (”Come on, it wasn’t your fault”) -.-°
(Although it can’tthat my skill at comforting people rarely goes beyond “it’s the thought that matters” and my perceptiveness rarely exceeds picking up the obvious, ie, that a person who’s crying or saying they’re upset is probably upset. She probably has more Fe than I have even if she mostly uses it to tell a person when they should back off and let her internally process in peace)
But in all examples you can see that this is a relatively “narrow”, small scale application of the function: Your starting point is your base function’s conclusion, you don’t - and likely can’t - scale the whole field of possibilities.
At best, this can slightly ‘round out’ or complement your primary and thus become a part of yourprocess (for example: devise theory -> go test it! Or, in a job rather than private setting, recognize the need to have someone else do the testing) but you’ve got to be careful not to use it in a wholly self-serving way (ie, confirmation bias. Only cite studies that agree with your theory, only find possibilities that , only pick up that ridiculous Big sis is being ridiculous and not that she’s trying to help (though lemme state that litte sis is not guilty of this, she was more like, “I get that you mean well but take a hint” if more politely worded))

Interestingly, just like your inferior supposedly influences your choice in mates a bit can lead you to go after someone you see as having something you lack/ an idealized version of yourself, the fifth function influences your idea of “dark sexy”, the bad boy/girl rather than the dream one or a sentiment “I don’t think I could or want to be like this person but there’s some parts of them I can’t help but admire or be slightly jealous of” (at least according to Beebe theory).

6th Function -

This is perhaps the most interesting one, and therefore one I wish I had found more information on - You find more information about the other three as they can really cause problems, aligning with the base idea of the shadow functions as “stuff you suck at that you don’t realize you suck at” (as opposed to say, your inferior, where your suckage is more unpleasant but also more noticeable to you personally.) but the sixth function is more about stuff you’re good at that you don’t know -
Depending on which source you believe (and the individual’s) this can be anywhere between nearly as strong as the secondary function, and comparable to the primary one. This is actually one of your strongest functions, a “latent hidden strenght” every type has, and actually uses every day without noticing. It’s called the “demonstrative function”, maybe because others actually notice it more easily than you do and might even value this good quality in you.
So I’m particularly interested in learning how to get more use out of this. My 6th function would be Ni and I think we can all agree that Ni is basically black magic.
About how exactly you use this, the sources vary. Some sources say that the into/processing this gathers feeds into the conclusions of your base and auxillary, but you don’t know how to flip it on independently of those. Like the fifth function (Like in the INTP example, “I need to know WHY/HOW I know so I don’t trust, or dare to make, an estimate”. Conversely, an INTj might not see the point in dissecting something in detail when they’re comfortable making the mental jump to the end result and don’t see it getting them closer to their goals) Some said that it’s things that seem “obvious” to you, that you see without being aware that actual thinking/processing has taken place, or that you use them in “inverted” negative ways as a tool for criticism (sort of like the fifth one) and part of your panic mode.
When I first read this I was clueless as to how this is present in my life but I’ve since read up on both this thing and Ni and observed my thinking and… I do frequently find myself going “I should have known this would happen because of A and B” in a self-critical way/ and avoid A and B in the future, sometimes I even distinctly recall a moment where I thought “Won’t that thing happen if I do this?” but dismissed it (maybe I should follow/trust that more often?)
Ni is also supposedly tied to symbolism, analysis of deeper meanings, predicting what will happen next in a story, finding patterns etc. This is something that at very least interests me as a fun hobby activity.
To give another example, my mom is an ENFP, so her sixth function is Fe. If you asked her why she does things, she would reply in a way indicative of Fi-style internal processing, “I believe in XY value”, “You can’t do [wrong thing] and expect your children to grow up with [positive trait]” or “I think WZ is important”, but she’s a lot more loudly expressive than other Fi users in our family, and cultivates a warm and lively atmosphere around her.
Or for, INFJs, it’s Fi. They’ll reason in very other-oriented ways of wanting to help and do right by everyone, but when reading their many tumblr posts you do get the sense that many of them actually have deep ethical/personal convictions."

Hopefully this helps. ^_^
 

527468

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On the difference of Ni and Ne

A clear thing I notice about the functions throughout the years is that the J primary functions (ie. Ni, Si, Te, Fe) aren't ultimately bent on certainty as much as they are having an answer to work with. For instance, an NT like the INTJ has a job of putting things to the test, even a mental program, placeholder, or inventive idea, they will come up with an answer and solution to, and adopt that answer, in like a creative pursuit they will albeit casually put it into practice (and the confidence level behind their idea isn't great.) The job of an NT like INTP on the other hand, is to gain their confidence through deep investigation of the various rationales, implications and possibilities of any matter more than anything, and I think that's the extent of their difference but also their similarity. You see, J functions like Ni form ideas, and will adopt them in practice, only to doubt and rethink them. While P functions like Ne will care less to need a solid answer to work with, they don't need something to adopt, more so they need to truly contemplate and think over the various deeper implications and possibilities (aka, gain more information and insight, to where no information is ever enough for the sake of ideation, conversation, and philosophy.) When you talk to an Ni type, they're a bit more straightforward and linear into their current perspective, even if they need to just come up with something on the spot, where as an Ne type is going to give you more perspectives and possibilities. They're going to seem less rooted down, because they don't live their lives linearly, but holistically. This is Lenore Thompson speaking.

Furthermore, an Ne type can use a healthy bit of Ni and visa versa, but ultimately, Ni decisiveness is usually balanced in INxJs by a speculative and thoughtful complementary look at the reality and details of what their ideas end up forming (Se,) where as a piercing speculation of possibilities and implications (Ne) is at the forefront of an INxP's mind. All in all, the functions resemble this in practice:
Ni = Linear and evolving: Uses deduction to find good answers first, then tests them, questions them, changes them.
Ne = Non-linear and holistic: Questions a lot of different possibilities and models, is not always decided where it goes, but closer it gets to truth.
For Si and Se, you simply switch the terms "ideas, models, coming up with answers" with "facts, raw and quantifiable information."


Taken from MBTI at a Glance - Cognitive Function Theory : (Interesting and thorough blog)

"Ni:
-attends to subjective abstract meaning
-oriented to underlying causes & patterns
-looks for depth in understanding unknowns
-experiences the world through “what will be”
-seeks to maximize intuitive clarity
-idealistic, synthesizes unified vision
-rationalizing, defensive of inner world

Ne:
-attends to objective abstract connections
-oriented to conceptual ideas & possibilities
-looks for unique connections of details
-experiences the world through “what could be”
-seeks to maximize openness to change
-creative, generates ideas for progress
-impatient, impractical, unstable self"

It's probably just me, but I feel that the bold and underlined of each function are in contradiction to one another. One is about "what will be" and "finding the underlying causes to things," yet is inherently idealistic and subjective, which doesn't coincide as a singular function of cognition.
While the other finds objective connections yet only concerns itself with what could be. Sorta sounds like its attempting to pigeonhole people into these specific odds and ends of cognition, instead of describing the essence of a function's role in cognition.
 

Rouskyrie

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Messages
396
Well, it's probably just me, but I feel that the bold and underlined of each function are in contradiction to one another O_O. One is about "what will be" and "finding the underlying causes to things," yet is inherently idealistic and subjective?
While the other finds objective connections yet only concerns itself with what could be? Sorta feels like its attempting to pigeonhole people into these specific combinations, instead of a general definition.

I wouldn't say that it's just you, I can certainly see your point. I don't wish to contribute to pigeonholing, by any means. I merely felt that the blog's chart descriptions for Ni and Ne were decent enough.
 

Amber97

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Aug 26, 2016
Messages
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?
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so/sx

I have looked at this, it just didn't make much sense to me :shrug:

Taken from MBTI at a Glance - Cognitive Function Theory : (Interesting and thorough blog)

"Ni:
-attends to subjective abstract meaning
-oriented to underlying causes & patterns
-looks for depth in understanding unknowns
-experiences the world through “what will be”
-seeks to maximize intuitive clarity
-idealistic, synthesizes unified vision
-rationalizing, defensive of inner world

Ne:
-attends to objective abstract connections
-oriented to conceptual ideas & possibilities
-looks for unique connections of details
-experiences the world through “what could be”
-seeks to maximize openness to change
-creative, generates ideas for progress
-impatient, impractical, unstable self"

From what I've seen of your posts, you strike me as more of an Ne user. More specifically, an INFP. However, as an ENTP, Ni would be your fifth function and as an INFP, it would be your sixth.

As another Tumblr blog defines those functions:

"5th Function -

This one is comparable to your tertiary in strenght/ tends to be in the “average use” bracket, depending on how much you’ve developed your teriary of course, but you probably hardly use it and find doing so very exhausting or counterproductive. Nonetheless, the fifth function is the one shadow function that you can consciously flip on to its full extent without needing to learn how to do so, when the situation calls for it, but it’s likely that you don’t want you:
In fact it’s called “opposing” or “negative hero” function because you might really resist having to use this one, or feeling you need to filter it out. Take, for example, and INTP for whom the 5th function is Te - INTPs are not known for organizational skills (to say the least) and like many perceivers actually feel uncomfortable with too much sheduling, but there’s more to it, because in a way it represents an alternative approach: Te is concerned with finding what seems to work on an almost completely empirical basis, Ti, at least in a high-end user, is about finding out why things work or putting them in a self-consistent framework where most factors are accounted for - ultimately even here we need room for a reasonable doubt,
The Te shadow might be the reason for this phenomenon where the diaries of some reclusive, reasonable INTP-ish researchers are found, and it’s discovered that they were well ahead of their time (Gauss is a famous example) and had the next decades’ worth of advances sitting right there, but didn’t pblish them because they weren’t fully sure off/ satisfied with their
Since “pragmatic feasibility” (or whatever your fifth function is) is already a sort of devil’s advocate in your head, it can also come out in arguments/debates, when you’re “opposing” others - Say, your criticise an INTPs model/theory/conclusion, and they will pull some facts, studies, or feasibility considerations to support their conclusions. (I’ve actually observd this in myself) Or, I read one INTJ reflecting on the Ne shadow; The person observed how when their ideas are criticised, they would defend them via “finding alternatives” - For how the person they’re arguing with could be wrong, or how to patch up/ bugfix their Ni-derived idea with minor changes.
I’m not fully sure how this would work for someone leading with a feeling function, but I have noticed a pattern that I previously just chalked up to my general poor people skills and delicacy, where an ISFP in my family (5th function: Fe) would become upset about something that went wrong/ she felt she mucked up, and I would try to move to comfort her in what might have been a clumsy-tastic way, and she would react really negatively and get out the snarky voice. Now it has dawned on me that dealing with me in addition to the initial situation probably just added extra stress and that I should probably let her finish reacting internally instead of repeating my points (”Come on, it wasn’t your fault”) -.-°
(Although it can’tthat my skill at comforting people rarely goes beyond “it’s the thought that matters” and my perceptiveness rarely exceeds picking up the obvious, ie, that a person who’s crying or saying they’re upset is probably upset. She probably has more Fe than I have even if she mostly uses it to tell a person when they should back off and let her internally process in peace)
But in all examples you can see that this is a relatively “narrow”, small scale application of the function: Your starting point is your base function’s conclusion, you don’t - and likely can’t - scale the whole field of possibilities.
At best, this can slightly ‘round out’ or complement your primary and thus become a part of yourprocess (for example: devise theory -> go test it! Or, in a job rather than private setting, recognize the need to have someone else do the testing) but you’ve got to be careful not to use it in a wholly self-serving way (ie, confirmation bias. Only cite studies that agree with your theory, only find possibilities that , only pick up that ridiculous Big sis is being ridiculous and not that she’s trying to help (though lemme state that litte sis is not guilty of this, she was more like, “I get that you mean well but take a hint” if more politely worded))

Interestingly, just like your inferior supposedly influences your choice in mates a bit can lead you to go after someone you see as having something you lack/ an idealized version of yourself, the fifth function influences your idea of “dark sexy”, the bad boy/girl rather than the dream one or a sentiment “I don’t think I could or want to be like this person but there’s some parts of them I can’t help but admire or be slightly jealous of” (at least according to Beebe theory).

6th Function -

This is perhaps the most interesting one, and therefore one I wish I had found more information on - You find more information about the other three as they can really cause problems, aligning with the base idea of the shadow functions as “stuff you suck at that you don’t realize you suck at” (as opposed to say, your inferior, where your suckage is more unpleasant but also more noticeable to you personally.) but the sixth function is more about stuff you’re good at that you don’t know -
Depending on which source you believe (and the individual’s) this can be anywhere between nearly as strong as the secondary function, and comparable to the primary one. This is actually one of your strongest functions, a “latent hidden strenght” every type has, and actually uses every day without noticing. It’s called the “demonstrative function”, maybe because others actually notice it more easily than you do and might even value this good quality in you.
So I’m particularly interested in learning how to get more use out of this. My 6th function would be Ni and I think we can all agree that Ni is basically black magic.
About how exactly you use this, the sources vary. Some sources say that the into/processing this gathers feeds into the conclusions of your base and auxillary, but you don’t know how to flip it on independently of those. Like the fifth function (Like in the INTP example, “I need to know WHY/HOW I know so I don’t trust, or dare to make, an estimate”. Conversely, an INTj might not see the point in dissecting something in detail when they’re comfortable making the mental jump to the end result and don’t see it getting them closer to their goals) Some said that it’s things that seem “obvious” to you, that you see without being aware that actual thinking/processing has taken place, or that you use them in “inverted” negative ways as a tool for criticism (sort of like the fifth one) and part of your panic mode.
When I first read this I was clueless as to how this is present in my life but I’ve since read up on both this thing and Ni and observed my thinking and… I do frequently find myself going “I should have known this would happen because of A and B” in a self-critical way/ and avoid A and B in the future, sometimes I even distinctly recall a moment where I thought “Won’t that thing happen if I do this?” but dismissed it (maybe I should follow/trust that more often?)
Ni is also supposedly tied to symbolism, analysis of deeper meanings, predicting what will happen next in a story, finding patterns etc. This is something that at very least interests me as a fun hobby activity.
To give another example, my mom is an ENFP, so her sixth function is Fe. If you asked her why she does things, she would reply in a way indicative of Fi-style internal processing, “I believe in XY value”, “You can’t do [wrong thing] and expect your children to grow up with [positive trait]” or “I think WZ is important”, but she’s a lot more loudly expressive than other Fi users in our family, and cultivates a warm and lively atmosphere around her.
Or for, INFJs, it’s Fi. They’ll reason in very other-oriented ways of wanting to help and do right by everyone, but when reading their many tumblr posts you do get the sense that many of them actually have deep ethical/personal convictions."

Hopefully this helps. ^_^

You been stalking my profile eh? ;) Which of my posts in particular struck you as Ne? Do you think you could quote specific sentences? That would really help me a lot, being able to see it in my own wording/behaviour.

That post mentioned the 5th function being the function your jealous of/admire in other people despite not wanting to be like them at the same time, and I've always noticed my as being Fe (they're nice people but so fake) :unsure:
 

Rouskyrie

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396
I have looked at this, it just didn't make much sense to me :shrug:



You been stalking my profile eh? ;) Which of my posts in particular struck you as Ne? Do you think you could quote specific sentences? That would really help me a lot, being able to see it in my own wording/behaviour.

That post mentioned the 5th function being the function your jealous of/admire in other people despite not wanting to be like them at the same time, and I've always noticed my as being Fe (they're nice people but so fake) :unsure:

Unfortunately, I can't be of much help there. My apologies. I don't get an Se vibe from your writing style, leaving Ne. This one implies the possibility of Ne/Si, as you mentioned later in the post: "I've been told before that I worry too much about the future, and that I tend to be too imaginative when thinking of possible consequences and have a difficult time letting go of the past".

In addition, "I've always noticed my as being Fe (they're nice people but so fake)" is a perfect example of fifth function Fe, making it reasonable to say you're likely an INFP.
 

Psyclepath

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Hey guys, I'm wondering whether I use Ne or Ni. I've been trying to research it but I haven't really come across anything that really takes the cake for me. In the past I've been typed INTJ and ISFP, though recently it's been ENTP and INFP which seems like a very strange jump. Would you mind giving me some help/asking questions to pin it down for me? Thank you so much~~

I notice you're an INFj in Socionics: that's a sign that you're probably INFP in MBTI - assuming you've typed correctly. I don't know a thing about you though, so I at this point couldn't tell you.

Tell me about your interests. What about them appeals to you?
 

Psyclepath

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so/sx
Unfortunately, I can't be of much help there. My apologies. I don't get an Se vibe from your writing style, leaving Ne. This one implies the possibility of Ne/Si, as you mentioned later in the post: "I've been told before that I worry too much about the future, and that I tend to be too imaginative when thinking of possible consequences and have a difficult time letting go of the past".

In addition, "I've always noticed my as being Fe (they're nice people but so fake)" is a perfect example of fifth function Fe, making it reasonable to say you're likely an INFP.

I don't subscribe to Beebe's function model. And "having a difficult time letting go of the past" seems more like some kind of trauma than any genuine Si. Si looks to the past in such an abstract way that I doubt an Si dom/aux would say this, unless of course they were suffering a trauma.

What would make you read Se in a person's writing style, out of interest?
 

Amber97

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so/sx
I notice you're an INFj in Socionics: that's a sign that you're probably INFP in MBTI - assuming you've typed correctly. I don't know a thing about you though, so I at this point couldn't tell you.

Tell me about your interests. What about them appeals to you?

I typed my socionics earlier today, I can't tell if I'm projecting biased results or not :(

My interests... I like drawing/writing, I like coming up with stories to give the characters in my drawings more depth and hidden meanings, I could go on for hours about the symbolisation in the work I do and all the various ways it could be looked at. I like trying to find my own drawing/writing style because there's so many ways to draw, but which one is mine? What makes it distinctive? I also enjoy the feedback I got online on how I can improve and what people like about it, I'm inspired by music as it gives me a base emotion to build upon in my drawing/writing. Sometimes if I'm not inspired I make mindmaps about all the things I could draw. I always want to do something different with the themes in my storyline! I feel like my characters are so unique and could change the world, enlighten people on a new perspective of life and be taken aback by the lack of cliches.... if only I could realise them in real life. but I never finish anything and my characters stay as imaginative people.

I used to play instruments, and I enjoying the emotions it made me feel to play them, knowing one day I could be famous for playing them and getting caught up in the energy of fast songs. I also wanted to play as a show-off piece at parties, lol :p
 

Psyclepath

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so/sx
I typed my socionics earlier today, I can't tell if I'm projecting biased results or not :(

My interests... I like drawing/writing, I like coming up with stories to give the characters in my drawings more depth and hidden meanings, I could go on for hours about the symbolisation in the work I do and all the various ways it could be looked at. I like trying to find my own drawing/writing style because there's so many ways to draw, but which one is mine? What makes it distinctive? I also enjoy the feedback I got online on how I can improve and what people like about it, I'm inspired by music as it gives me a base emotion to build upon in my drawing/writing. Sometimes if I'm not inspired I make mindmaps about all the things I could draw. I always want to do something different with the themes in my storyline! I feel like my characters are so unique and could change the world, enlighten people on a new perspective of life and be taken aback by the lack of cliches.... if only I could realise them in real life. but I never finish anything and my characters stay as imaginative people.

I used to play instruments, and I enjoying the emotions it made me feel to play them, knowing one day I could be famous for playing them and getting caught up in the energy of fast songs. I also wanted to play as a show-off piece at parties, lol :p

You might want to consider yourself as a 7w6 so/sx or sx/so in the Enneagram.

You actually remind me of my girlfriend in the way you write and explain things. She's a 7w6 sx/so, and an xSFJ. I see Fe and Si in your explanation, along with somewhat erratic but valued Ne. Most of what you say is essentially tangible: focused on the enjoyments you hold in real life.

Perhaps you could tell me some of your symbolisms though. Intuitives and Sensors will approach symbolisms from a fundamentally different angle, no matter how similar the end product may end up being.
 

Amber97

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You might want to consider yourself as a 7w6 so/sx or sx/so in the Enneagram.

You actually remind me of my girlfriend in the way you write and explain things. She's a 7w6 sx/so, and an xSFJ. I see Fe and Si in your explanation, along with somewhat erratic but valued Ne. Most of what you say is essentially tangible: focused on the enjoyments you hold in real life.

Perhaps you could tell me some of your symbolisms though. Intuitives and Sensors will approach symbolisms from a fundamentally different angle, no matter how similar the end product may end up being.

I'm definitely not a Fe user lol. Okay so, for a fan-artwork I did a little while ago (attack on titan anime spoilers!) :

"So much emotion! this here shows jean from attack on tian at the cremation: he's a 15 year old soldier who's just experienced a war, he recently found out his friend died. there's a lot of irony, see the newspaper? Marco -jean's dead friend- his death was meaningless, it wouldn't have made it to the newspapers because he was a normal, relatively unknown boy lost in the sea of soldiers. the words surround jean, are they describing his thoughts? his priorities? his feelings? the pictures, are they showing people he once knew? who he sees now? notice the charcoal: another connotation with the theme of cremation. all thick lines and dramatic, reflective of his black mood and dusting the paper clippings. it also highlights one word from a newspaper clipping in particular: ashes. that's what marco's body is now. the newspaper clippings look like ashes too. and jean himself has been drawn in charcoal: he's in darkness. there's no light because there's no end to the tunnel. he clenches his fist, holding a bone shard in the hope that it's marco's-but because marco is just one of many soldiers in the death heap, jean doesn't know if the bone shard is marco's or a strangers."

angsty jean.jpg
 

Psyclepath

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I'm definitely not a Fe user lol. Okay so, for a fan-artwork I did a little while ago (attack on titan anime spoilers!) :

"So much emotion! this here shows jean from attack on tian at the cremation: he's a 15 year old soldier who's just experienced a war, he recently found out his friend died. there's a lot of irony, see the newspaper? Marco -jean's dead friend- his death was meaningless, it wouldn't have made it to the newspapers because he was a normal, relatively unknown boy lost in the sea of soldiers. the words surround jean, are they describing his thoughts? his priorities? his feelings? the pictures, are they showing people he once knew? who he sees now? notice the charcoal: another connotation with the theme of cremation. all thick lines and dramatic, reflective of his black mood and dusting the paper clippings. it also highlights one word from a newspaper clipping in particular: ashes. that's what marco's body is now. the newspaper clippings look like ashes too. and jean himself has been drawn in charcoal: he's in darkness. there's no light because there's no end to the tunnel. he clenches his fist, holding a bone shard in the hope that it's marco's-but because marco is just one of many soldiers in the death heap, jean doesn't know if the bone shard is marco's or a strangers."

View attachment 17210

Haven't read all of your post, but seriously - why aren't you an Fe user?
 

Amber97

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Haven't read all of your post, but seriously - why aren't you an Fe user?

A lot of my friends have Fe, which I notice in how kind they are/focused on group harmony whereas I tend to be more focused on individuals. Like, although I care about the world to some degree I wouldn't say I go out of my way to create peace? I tend to fall out of touch with other people, and I know very well that my feelings are separate from theirs. Other times when I've been typed, no-one's really mentioned Fe and said that my Fi was pretty obvious, and I identify with it a lot.
 

Psyclepath

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A lot of my friends have Fe, which I notice in how kind they are/focused on group harmony whereas I tend to be more focused on individuals. Like, although I care about the world to some degree I wouldn't say I go out of my way to create peace? I tend to fall out of touch with other people, and I know very well that my feelings are separate from theirs. Other times when I've been typed, no-one's really mentioned Fe and said that my Fi was pretty obvious, and I identify with it a lot.

I don't think Fe is about group harmony in any way. I just typed [MENTION=29179]Rouskyrie[/MENTION] an Fi, despite frequently mentioning group harmony. The bottom line is, his sense of group harmony was brought about from a very internal point of judgment, which at first was vaguely worded but became a consistent theme in his questionnaire.

Fe is the focus on communicating ethical information. Fe tends to bring a very playful element to interactions: it brings a focus on emotional atmospheres. Some Fe-users can be histrionics; incredibly self-centred and not giving a damn about harmony. I noticed that when you were talking about your works, you were immediately communicating with me in a very emotion-oriented manner which went on to describe the emotional atmospheres within your characters. To my mind, it's an indicator that you value Fe and probably have it as a top function.
 

Amber97

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I don't think Fe is about group harmony in any way. I just typed [MENTION=29179]Rouskyrie[/MENTION] an Fi, despite frequently mentioning group harmony. The bottom line is, his sense of group harmony was brought about from a very internal point of judgment, which at first was vaguely worded but became a consistent theme in his questionnaire.

Fe is the focus on communicating ethical information. Fe tends to bring a very playful element to interactions: it brings a focus on emotional atmospheres. Some Fe-users can be histrionics; incredibly self-centred and not giving a damn about harmony. I noticed that when you were talking about your works, you were immediately communicating with me in a very emotion-oriented manner which went on to describe the emotional atmospheres within your characters. To my mind, it's an indicator that you value Fe and probably have it as a top function.

??? I dunno man, my friend is an ISFJ and she doesn't care about stuff like typology. it was really easy to type her because she's such a simple person. she's way more invested in caring for children/others, she's polite to the point of self-sabotage because she just puts up with everyone's complaining, she's passive, completely unconcerned with theory, in my mind she's small-minded because she never sees that she could be anything more than a psychologist (where's the fun in that? doesn't she realise she'll be lost in a huge sea of wannabe doctors?) and far too traditional whereas I'm more "fuck the government!". I don't have the mental capacity to do the same, I really really have to be in a good mood to be nice to people whereas for her it comes so naturally.

People sometimes come to me to talk about their relationship issues but to be honest I only help them because they ask? I feel like I have a better sense of self. I talk about how things feel for me, rather than how people see me.

"Introverted Feeling is an introverted Judging function. Like the other introverted functions, Fi is characteristically intensive rather than extensive. More specifically, it is focused on navigating and managing the FP’s personal feelings, tastes, and values. Rather than distributing its feelings and energies across a breadth of individuals (as Fe does), Fi concentrates its gaze on the self or the “subject.” This is why it is often described as “subjective.”"

On another note: do you see Ti? The thing's I've been typed as previously have a history of Te. I feel like I have Te since that showed up when I was younger in my bossy streak.
 

Amber97

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[MENTION=29823]Psyclepath[/MENTION] I hope you don't think I'm trying to fight you on this, I'm just tired of being mis-typed and find it interesting to talk about :unsure:
 

Psyclepath

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??? I dunno man, my friend is an ISFJ and she doesn't care about stuff like typology. it was really easy to type her because she's such a simple person. she's way more invested in caring for children/others, she's polite to the point of self-sabotage because she just puts up with everyone's complaining, she's passive, completely unconcerned with theory, in my mind she's small-minded because she never sees that she could be anything more than a psychologist (where's the fun in that? doesn't she realise she'll be lost in a huge sea of wannabe doctors?) and far too traditional whereas I'm more "fuck the government!". I don't have the mental capacity to do the same, I really really have to be in a good mood to be nice to people whereas for her it comes so naturally.

People sometimes come to me to talk about their relationship issues but to be honest I only help them because they ask? I feel like I have a better sense of self. I talk about how things feel for me, rather than how people see me.

"Introverted Feeling is an introverted Judging function. Like the other introverted functions, Fi is characteristically intensive rather than extensive. More specifically, it is focused on navigating and managing the FP’s personal feelings, tastes, and values. Rather than distributing its feelings and energies across a breadth of individuals (as Fe does), Fi concentrates its gaze on the self or the “subject.” This is why it is often described as “subjective.”"

On another note: do you see Ti? The thing's I've been typed as previously have a history of Te. I feel like I have Te since that showed up when I was younger in my bossy streak.

Firstly, you're assuming the person is an ISFJ. How do you know this? By a test? Online tests simplify prototypes by assuming that two people of the same mindset will exhibit the same traits: that's utterly insane and obviously the work of a person who has never had any genuine experiences with people. By descriptions? Descriptions play on exactly the same idea, which is completely false.

Type isn't about a person's behaviour. Type is about a person's intrinsic thought patterns and how their mind works. I mean, the ISFJ you're describing sounds like an ISFJ straight out of David Keirsey's book. If you asked me, I'd tell you that Keirsey was an utter farce of an individual, I'm actually trying to write a thread about that now. People such as the friend you describe just seem boring, and unfortunately, the kind of person nobody ever wants to think of themselves as.

I also don't think having a bossy streak is necessarily Te. The most straightforward example of Te I can give is from this guy. Reckful vs. Inquisitor on Jung and MBTI - Derail from: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP - INTP Forum

I personally don't like Te; I believe Te thinking doesn't get between the cracks to really decipher the heart of a puzzle. Because Te is focused on logic that externally "works", Te logic is fine for as long as it serves an external purpose. I'm looking here at David Keirsey as well, who typed himself as INTP but I'm sure was a Te-valuer in some form. His system is based purely on external manifestations: there's no examinations of the mechanisms at work. Keirsey's work is so simplified, it just stops working so quickly. Entropic/Samuel Fridh is also a Te-valuer and he's certainly a great deal capable of original thought, but his logic is still very much focused on external manifestations of behaviour. I sometimes find his reasoning simplistic, but I respect his insights and he's very much what my understanding of typology is modelled on, which is taken from Socionics.

So, I haven't actually answered a lot of your questions. You say you discuss how things feel for you: Anyone who's a sexual subtype is going to have very strong ideas about how things feel for them. I'd even go as far as to say that the Fi/Fe stereotypes resemble the sexual/social archetypes more than they resemble Fi and Fe. Fe is focused on communicating a feeling atmosphere. I can detect a strong impression of the way you feel about things: Fi keeps this very shrouded. I type with the clear intention of letting others know my emotional atmosphere; I'd like to think it's apparent in some of the things I say.

I hope this is insightful to you. I have a personal hatred of mistypes, because I spent more than a year searching for my type as all I could interpret were extremely vague descriptions and my ideas got completely skewed, as well as an incredibly misleading interpretation of a questionnaire that someone gave me.
 

Psyclepath

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[MENTION=29823]Psyclepath[/MENTION] I hope you don't think I'm trying to fight you on this, I'm just tired of being mis-typed and find it interesting to talk about :unsure:

I don't care if you're trying to fight me on this. My claim was pretty outlandish and my explanation hardly perfect.

If I can't answer your questions, you can safely assume that I don't genuinely know what I'm talking about.
 
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