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Introversion and the SPs and SJs

Generalist

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Hi, thanks to anyone who shows interest. As I have read descriptions of introversion and its subjective nature and the description that makes it sound like introverts like to escape to their internal world, I am wondering how this plays out with SJs and SPs. If you have an internal focus, how does that play out in combination with having a dual focus although not as strong or stronger with what is happening outside of you? They often write about sensors being in the here and now, but with introversion, do you find yourself on maybe a fairly regular basis retreating into yourself, your mind wondering or lost in thought or is more of a subjective impression of things in the real world but you don't usually check out? And in general how does introversion play out for you? Thanks again.
 

Yama

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I'm constantly in my head. I absolutely hate when people pull me out of it. I'm stuck in the here and now but not physically (I'm quite oblivious to my physical surroundings)... but just thinking. When someone walks up and starts talking to me when I'm hyperfocused on my thoughts (where I am the most comfortable and natural) it feels like being woken up in the middle of REM sleep. It's very draining and I have a hard time paying attention and do everything I can to make them go away so I can go back inside my head.

If I want to socialize, I'll be less in my head and usually be the one to initiate or take control of the situation socially (probably the Je/Fe). But instinctually my first choice is always, always to be left alone to my thoughts. What do I think about? Anything that's interesting to me in the moment. Either daydreaming, or something that's relevant to my life, or thinking about a hobby or something else I like, or maybe what I'm going to do when I go home. Just having a conversation with myself.

It's a very weird experience, being Fe-aux, so dom, introverted, and strongly solitary in Oldham's.
 

cascadeco

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I want to preface this by saying that I'm 38 and in my teens I would have answered differently, and probably in my 20's too.

But I think then I was much more inward because it was protective for me, and I wasn't entirely happy with it or with my life, and was also still figuring out a lot (I mean that never stops, but it was more 'overwhelming' and all consuming then). Now I'm much more happy and feel I am a lot healthier.

(btw I am not at all saying this is the case for all introverts, I am just outlining myself here)

I am still in my head a fair amount, probably, I will almost always process/think before I speak, reflect a lot on things, and so on. But I don't really spend much time 'idly' in my head, daydreaming, or so on. Also, whereas when younger I would spend lots of time pointlessly ruminating over things and going in circles, I cut that off a lot quicker these days because I am aware now when it is completely fruitless [for me] and when it is actually productive reflection.

I am still very much 'present' in the here and now, and I notice a lot outside of myself. I have always, always been an observer. I also really like/need to get out a fair amount, even if it's just by myself, as I don't like being cooped up inside my house all day. I like being a part of the world and seeing life. I get ancy if I'm just doing something like reading all day. [contrast when I was younger and I often read all day long and was fine with it]

Maybe I'm more 'extroverted' in an activity / doing-things sense, but I'm very introverted in a talking/words/sharing sense. Not as much as I once was, though. I'll never be one to wax poetic verbally, and I tend to speak in summaries or just comments here and there. So conversationally I am really quiet. I'm much more verbal / sometimes chatty in a real-time / here-and-now / while-doing-things-and-sharing-an-experience sense, though.

In short, I think some things can change with age. Maybe I spent so much time in my early years being so inward that I kind of got over it / it's more of a 'been there done that' sort of feeling for me, and now I'm much less inclined to just be in my head. :shrug:
 

Smilephantomhive

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I wouldn't consider myself in the here and now. I mean I definitely notice more physical stuff than the intuitives here seem to, but I am almost always thinking about the past or future. My brain forces me listen to stuff around me unless I have headphones in, and I'm usually relating what I hear to stuff about myself. This especially happens when reading, watching movies, and sometimes even during lectures.

Sometimes I'll purposely check out when I'm at home just to sit and think, but I really do this during class unless I'm tired

I still daydream, but not as much as I used to probably because I have more things to do. From least to most often I think about stuff that has happened, worrying, plans for the day, philosophical stuff, random ideas, daydreams, solutions to problems (I do this more in the moment actually, but some of it occurs during "alone time"), and I can't think of any other categories to put my thoughts in. EDIT: of yeay sometimes I will jsut recite facts of the current thing i'm interested in my head. Idk how often I do this, but it happens.

I almost always think before I speak/do. Exceptions would be if I felt like I was in danger or had to respond quickly to something. I don't really talk much unless I have something to add to the conversation or if I'm forced to. Most people at school refer to me as a ninja or a silent assassin because I don't say much, and probably also because If the whole "it's always the quiet kids" kind of thing.

Not sure what else to put. I hope that's good enough.
 

Generalist

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I wouldn't consider myself in the here and now. I mean I definitely notice more physical stuff than the intuitives here seem to, but I am almost always thinking about the past or future. My brain forces me listen to stuff around me unless I have headphones in, and I'm usually relating what I hear to stuff about myself. This especially happens when reading, watching movies, and sometimes even during lectures.

Sometimes I'll purposely check out when I'm at home just to sit and think, but I really do this during class unless I'm tired

I still daydream, but not as much as I used to probably because I have more things to do. From least to most often I think about stuff that has happened, worrying, plans for the day, philosophical stuff, random ideas, daydreams, solutions to problems (I do this more in the moment actually, but some of it occurs during "alone time"), and I can't think of any other categories to put my thoughts in. EDIT: of yeay sometimes I will jsut recite facts of the current thing i'm interested in my head. Idk how often I do this, but it happens.

I almost always think before I speak/do. Exceptions would be if I felt like I was in danger or had to respond quickly to something. I don't really talk much unless I have something to add to the conversation or if I'm forced to. Most people at school refer to me as a ninja or a silent assassin because I don't say much, and probably also because If the whole "it's always the quiet kids" kind of thing.

Not sure what else to put. I hope that's good enough.


That's great, thank you. Hmmm interesting statement. So, it seems like you think about a lot of real world stuff, how do you feel your Si plays into your internal world and your internal thoughts? thanks again for the response
 

Generalist

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sp
I want to preface this by saying that I'm 38 and in my teens I would have answered differently, and probably in my 20's too.

But I think then I was much more inward because it was protective for me, and I wasn't entirely happy with it or with my life, and was also still figuring out a lot (I mean that never stops, but it was more 'overwhelming' and all consuming then). Now I'm much more happy and feel I am a lot healthier.

(btw I am not at all saying this is the case for all introverts, I am just outlining myself here)

I am still in my head a fair amount, probably, I will almost always process/think before I speak, reflect a lot on things, and so on. But I don't really spend much time 'idly' in my head, daydreaming, or so on. Also, whereas when younger I would spend lots of time pointlessly ruminating over things and going in circles, I cut that off a lot quicker these days because I am aware now when it is completely fruitless [for me] and when it is actually productive reflection.

I am still very much 'present' in the here and now, and I notice a lot outside of myself. I have always, always been an observer. I also really like/need to get out a fair amount, even if it's just by myself, as I don't like being cooped up inside my house all day. I like being a part of the world and seeing life. I get ancy if I'm just doing something like reading all day. [contrast when I was younger and I often read all day long and was fine with it]

Maybe I'm more 'extroverted' in an activity / doing-things sense, but I'm very introverted in a talking/words/sharing sense. Not as much as I once was, though. I'll never be one to wax poetic verbally, and I tend to speak in summaries or just comments here and there. So conversationally I am really quiet. I'm much more verbal / sometimes chatty in a real-time / here-and-now / while-doing-things-and-sharing-an-experience sense, though.

In short, I think some things can change with age. Maybe I spent so much time in my early years being so inward that I kind of got over it / it's more of a 'been there done that' sort of feeling for me, and now I'm much less inclined to just be in my head. :shrug:

Interesting that an ISFP would retreat in like that, well from my limited knowledge of these things, but I think that is a fairly common thing to do. You talk about still being aware, how in detail would you describe that? Are you perhaps thinking about something going on in your life while at the same time taking in the details of what is around you, like you are caught between two worlds? Also do you feel at times that your Fi and Se are at odds with each other or partners in crime? I have read that ISFPs engage in the moment and look for opportunities for action? first of all, what does that exactly mean, looking for opportunities to engage with your immediate environment and how does this play out with your internal process? Thanks again.
 

Generalist

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I'm constantly in my head. I absolutely hate when people pull me out of it. I'm stuck in the here and now but not physically (I'm quite oblivious to my physical surroundings)... but just thinking. When someone walks up and starts talking to me when I'm hyperfocused on my thoughts (where I am the most comfortable and natural) it feels like being woken up in the middle of REM sleep. It's very draining and I have a hard time paying attention and do everything I can to make them go away so I can go back inside my head.

If I want to socialize, I'll be less in my head and usually be the one to initiate or take control of the situation socially (probably the Je/Fe). But instinctually my first choice is always, always to be left alone to my thoughts. What do I think about? Anything that's interesting to me in the moment. Either daydreaming, or something that's relevant to my life, or thinking about a hobby or something else I like, or maybe what I'm going to do when I go home. Just having a conversation with myself.

It's a very weird experience, being Fe-aux, so dom, introverted, and strongly solitary in Oldham's.

How do you feel constantly being in your head plays out with your Si? If you are always in your head, did you ever struggle about whether or not you are an intuitive? Can you describe in detail this challenging relationship between your Si, internal world and Fe. Thanks again for everything.
 

Yama

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How do you feel constantly being in your head plays out with your Si? If you are always in your head, did you ever struggle about whether or not you are an intuitive? Can you describe in detail this challenging relationship between your Si, internal world and Fe. Thanks again for everything.

I've never struggled with not knowing my S/N; I've always known I was a sensor since I first discovered MBTI (and an SFJ at that). However, I feel like being in your head often is an I/E thing moreso than an S/N thing. Though in my case, I'm mostly engaging in internal dialogue and processing information and experiences I've gathered (along with daydreaming, cuz like, everyone does it! :p)

As for the struggle between Si and Fe... it's actually pretty real right now. Because while I much prefer being left alone to my thoughts, my Fe is how I engage that outer world, and even if I'm being pulled out of my Si inner world and I'm annoyed and want to go back, I always take an Fe first approach to interacting with others so I push aside my own desires to slink back into my head to do the polite and friendly thing and respond to whoever's talking to me. I could actually see dom Fe as reasonable for me but I think tert Ti and inferior Ne is fine as it is. Thus why I recently took the I out of my ISFJ and I'm just leaving it as SFJ for now. I/E is the least important dichotomy anyway.
 

cascadeco

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Interesting that an ISFP would retreat in like that, well from my limited knowledge of these things, but I think that is a fairly common thing to do. You talk about still being aware, how in detail would you describe that? Are you perhaps thinking about something going on in your life while at the same time taking in the details of what is around you, like you are caught between two worlds? Also do you feel at times that your Fi and Se are at odds with each other or partners in crime? I have read that ISFPs engage in the moment and look for opportunities for action? first of all, what does that exactly mean, looking for opportunities to engage with your immediate environment and how does this play out with your internal process? Thanks again.

Well first of all I think like @Yamato Yadeshiko mentioned, both Si and Fi are internal processes, so both ISFx's are primarily going to be internal first, and may get stuck in their heads or if not as balanced, not be as likely to engage externally. It really depends, there are all sorts of variations within each type. I mean, just a simple example, a self confident and energized ISFP who is fully immersed in doing something they love, or a job, or whatever, will be far less inclined to be 'in their head' a lot than an ISFP who doesn't have that. I think the same goes for ISFJ's, or maybe any introvert for that matter. An interaction between introverted and extroverted functions, both kind of working in accord, is probably when introverts are being fully actualized / at their best.

Yeah, re aware, I have always been an observer like I said, just taking things in around me, watching things, people, elements of nature, and so on. But especially if I'm just sitting somewhere people-watching, or when at school, just sitting in a classroom, I'd watch everything but might have running commentary in my head, observations, noting things, I don't know. If I am in full-on thinking-about-my-life mode, I'm not going to be observing so much, really -- but then in that instance I'm usually just sitting at home not doing much but contemplating about my life. Or something mindless like playing freecell on the computer while contemplating my life.

I'm not sure that Fi and Se are 'at odds' with one another for me, I think they can go hand in hand. When I'm at my best I think I AM open to engaging more on the spot and noticing opportunities. Also I think it's why I am good at my current job as a barista -- I'm constantly adapting to the situation and very in-the-moment, seeing where there are gaps and immediately filling them / instantaneously shifting a gear. While in that sort of situation, there's very little ability to 'be in my head' -- I'm fully present in the moment and focusing on what needs to be done. Whereas SJ's in this environment have the ability to do the job, I notice a difference between them and I is that they tend to get externally rather frazzled and their stress exudes from them; I kind of hunker down and remain calm (even if there's an underlying 'stress' feeling, I don't think my blood pressure rises to the extent theirs does), just flow.

Another example of engaging with immediate environment, hmm, I think just generally not having a super defined 'plan' for my hiking/camping trip over the next several days is a good example, there are lots of variables and so I am going to have to play it by ear tonight re where I will be camping, depending on time, driving, weigh options if sites are full, time crunch re sunset and whatnot -- there will be potentially a lot of on the fly adapting. Same with hikes themselves - I have a pretty solid idea for one day hike but going to play the rest by ear because need input from friend / weather dependent, haven't been to the area so might whimsically see a really good option I wasn't aware of, depending on both of our moods I might throw out an idea on way home of doing a side trip somewhere else but who knows what we'll be feeling by that point, etc. So yeah, for me 'engaging in immediate environment' can boil down to 'what is the situation right now at this very minute?' and maybe shift gears then and there.

Also engaging in immediate moment, I do it every day when driving. Might immediately shift my route home if I notice certain traffic patterns.

Those are super easy/tangible examples.

Extroversion is also more complex in a broader sense, though, but still I think it's always working with the here and now and being able to recognize opportunities. It's very set on what's the situation now, what can I actually do, what is there to work with; vs Ne which is more about any and all possibilities and Ideas and patterns (vs tangible realities). Is also an interest in and maybe hunger for new experiences, maybe prioritizing experience itself. If locked fully in Fi/introversion, one might lose sight of that and just sit there stuck in ones' head, vs engaging more and simply trying/Doing things/learning as one goes. Se when working in tandem with Fi I think finetunes Fi and gives needed information to FiNi --- without Se there's a vacuum and FiNi just spins in own little world of idealism or uncertainty or melancholy or paranoia or inertness. In short - Fi I think gives me my foundation of what's important to me, but without Se and actually trying things out and doing things, there are still too many uncertainties and question marks -- so engaging and learning via getting real-world data via Se is super critical in finetuning Fi and even potentially shifting understandings of who I am and what I want out of life.

Sorry for the ridiculous ramble. I've learned over time that to some I can seem really vague/cryptic (inner thoughts can be hard to articulate, but irl when in the here and now I'm really pretty straightforward, not wordy, and no-nonsense), so hopefully with all of that writing something will make sense. ;)
 

Mr Troll

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In general all EPs types are very much on/off people with reclusive and engaging periods. Hence mistyping as introverts.

EJs are proactive and restless.

IP as rational types are all pretty ready for taking responsibility on their own hands.

IJ as irrational types have usually their own take on activity. Going with the flow and adjusting kind of people.
 
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