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ESFP, ESTP or ENFJ?

Kierva

#KUWK
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
2,469
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
In reality, I act similarly but I usually won't go as far to blackmail people. I usually know enough about a person’s perceptions, motivations, sore spots to spin an argument in my favor/get under their skin to get a certain reaction. I am usually fairly "nice" but If I do not like you, it's pretty evident. I am ENFJ 3w4... It could just be the 3w4 sp/sx commonality though.

To note, I feel either positive or fairly neutral to most of the members on here. To me, there is no one really worth expending negative energy on.

I would think that because we're so-last, we don't have that drive to maintain relations with those that we don't favor. It's not so much about social stuntedness as it is about not caring.

The thing is, I'm fairly personal with some of the members here, and some of them I've cut contact with. The rest are just intelligent pixels as far as I'm concerned.
 

Kierva

#KUWK
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
2,469
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
For those of you who want to know what I am like with my friends, here is a snippet:

 

Bush

cute lil war dog
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
5,182
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I used to self type as that. What is she like?
Seems like it's easier to describe people I know well in relation to myself. Which I suppose is the Socionics way anyway :shrug:

SEE-Fi, 6w7 so/sx. She's pretty socially outgoing and insanely empathic. More of a self-starter than I am (though I ain't so bad at it) but less of a "go forth with confidence" kind of person than I am (though she ain't so bad at it). It feels like she's more risk-averse than I am, though when I lay things out for her she's very much comfortable going forth.

One way that last thing manifests.. if I can say that she gives me the kick in the ass that I need sometimes, I can say that I keep her motivated, ambitious, and focused. She sometimes feels frustrated that, say, her hands get tied sometimes at work. I tell her that she's frustrated because she actually gives a shit about things at that level -- and that once she finishes her DNP degree she'll be able to take on more of a leadership position, which in turn will allow her to bring about changes that she'd like to see.

She's more disciplined than I am, too, especially with respect to getting to bed on time and eating regularly. I need an "accountabilibuddy" and she's great for that. She wants to eat healthy? Good for me, as I'm too lazy to not go along!

I have more inertia than she does -- more difficult to start and stop than she is. Comparatively, she can ramp up to 100mph right away and come to a halt just as quickly. I can't turn my brain off at night, for example.. which doesn't help with that lack of discipline. She's out pretty quickly.

She's more confident than I am in giving people "the boot," for good and for bad. I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt more than she does, for good and for bad. Generally, I tend to keep almost everyone in good relations but mostly at surface-level, whereas she keeps different people at different distances. (For me, I think that also ties into the "fibers" thing and the problem I expressed in giving my whole "me." So, whatever; I only throw a few out there, depending on the individual.)

She's more tolerant of the day-to-day stuff that has to be done, but she doesn't go out of her way to grab more such stuff (e.g. taking up landscaping as a hobby).

I could go on. In fact, I probably will in the blog or something.

Hmm. My directive is on the overall goal, but I'm very aware of what I can and am going to do now to reach that directive. I want to move to the US for a career in copywriting (lots of opportunities there, and the quality of work is miles better than it is here in SG), and I realize that I need to finish my portfolio site (it's only halfway done).

It's such a drag because I know I have to keep updating it, and I'm the kind that doesn't like to use one template for long. I like to revamp and change my look every few years, but god damn, as I accumulate more work, I have a hard time choosing and arranging it.
Okay, maybe even slightly less different than I thought.

I have the same issue with creating lecture slides and, hell, even typing up docs and reports and papers. "Should I go formal or casual? How do I want to present myself? Active tense? Narrative format? And, side question; what of these is 'me'? What comes naturally to me? No clue."

I can spend hours deliberating over that sort of thing. And with respect to lecture slides.. well, those accumulate just as a portfolio does.

Related to the sort of indecision I was talking about as well. Sometimes I can make the most of it, sometimes it's easy to pick a thing and go, but sometimes I get stuck.
I like how you made the most out of your indecision lol. Might I ask what kind of album is it?
Industrial noise, basically, with a slant toward metal. We really wanted to experiment the first time around. Very few tracks have structure -- that's just how noise music is. (The cliffnote version: tracks 2, 3, 8, 12, and 13.)

Since my material would be forming the base of our next effort if it's not used for solo stuff, it's necessarily more structured and a bit more serious. Relatively, at least.

On where I'm going from here (i.e. writing/recording stuff for use either solo or in cooperation), I have the same sort of problem that I discussed just above. If I find a guitar effects chain that I like, and if I record with it -- and then I find something better, I feel compelled to rerecord my preexisting material. That chain is essentially the template for the entire piece. Gotta find the right one.

(On my own, guitars are front-and-center and so it's a major issue. Thankfully, when we collaborate, throwing in a bunch industrial elements (which we both do, but which is mostly his area) makes that much less of an issue.)

I believe everything on that list except ILI (even if you didn't mention it directly). I get this sense that you're somewhat personable and diplomatic, two traits that I don't associate with :Fe: PoLR. The three ILIs I know are mean without meaning it, deadpan even if the environment clearly shows otherwise and somewhat critical of everything (attribute that to negativist).
You're right. The reasons I'd doubt LIE is because of my (sometimes) inaction and my (often) inclination toward restraint in social situations. But even those are legit explained by the positions are :Se: and :Fe: (as role) respectively.

:Si:-PoLR is way too apparent to ignore for me.
So I somewhat like constraint? Is that what you're saying?
More like "closure," I guess.

What's the work like? Manageable? Interesting?
Pretty interesting. I have my share of bullshit to deal with as well, but with research and teaching there's room for flexibility and creativity. When I'm more in "eat what someone else killed" mode rather than "eat what I kill" mode, I'm necessarily more constrained, but I still strive to make room for those things wherever possible.
_

With respect to risk.. well, you and I had talked about opportunity-seizing and changing course, right? It seems to me that, if an opportunity comes up, I wind up naturally thinking it through to some conclusion. Often, multiple possible paths to multiple conclusions, stripping out what's not likely (no, the car is not going to spontaneously catch on fire). Sometimes I'm wrong; sometimes I'm right. But these courses of action often don't even feel like risks, even if they look that way on the outside. The conclusion's just.. kinda taken for granted a lot of the time.

But again, I can be wrong. I once had a plan of action that I was dead certain would land me a contract (I called the strategic back-and-forth "checkers rather than chess"), but it didn't pan out even though it was "obvious" to me.

I try to update any trajectory/plan I have with more information as it comes along, but sometimes you get blindsided.
 

Kierva

#KUWK
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
2,469
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Seems like it's easier to describe people I know well in relation to myself. Which I suppose is the Socionics way anyway :shrug:

Haha, sounds like Gamma.

SEE-Fi, 6w7 so/sx. She's pretty socially outgoing and insanely empathic. More of a self-starter than I am (though I ain't so bad at it) but less of a "go forth with confidence" kind of person than I am (though she ain't so bad at it). It feels like she's more risk-averse than I am, though when I lay things out for her she's very much comfortable going forth.
Ahh, I can't say that I'm socially outgoing in general. In a few specific contexts like networking I can be, because there's a need for it, but on the rare occasions like if I'm at a volunteers' meetup I tend to fade in the background. If I see someone I like I'll approach them and try to integrate, but I feel like I can't sustain the effort. Takes way too much energy to keep them interested for something out of nothing.

Also, asking the same old questions like "what are your interests" really drain me. I'd like for the interests thing to get out of the way.

With friends though, it's a different story, it's like my SEE side comes out, I get wild, gregarious and loose. Ideally it's how I'd like to be, but I just find it very hard to be that way in front of strangers.

One way that last thing manifests.. if I can say that she gives me the kick in the ass that I need sometimes, I can say that I keep her motivated, ambitious, and focused. She sometimes feels frustrated that, say, her hands get tied sometimes at work. I tell her that she's frustrated because she actually gives a shit about things at that level -- and that once she finishes her DNP degree she'll be able to take on more of a leadership position, which in turn will allow her to bring about changes that she'd like to see.

It sounds like a wonderful relationship. I aspire for that kind of relationship in the future, as lonely as I am feeling right now. What's the point of finding a mate here and now, when I'm going to be moving in the near future? Seems pretty pointless to me, and I don't want to be chained here.

She's more disciplined than I am, too, especially with respect to getting to bed on time and eating regularly. I need an "accountabilibuddy" and she's great for that. She wants to eat healthy? Good for me, as I'm too lazy to not go along!

Oh god I'm really inconsistent with my sleep because there's so many things I want to do before I sleep. Like watching my Korean dramas or playing Heroes of the Storm.

Also, when it comes to eating... it can be somewhat irregular? I remember when I was saving up for NY, I didn't eat AT ALL, like sometimes I wouldn't eat for 2 days straight because I wanted to save money, and I didn't have money to spare. I actually lost 10kg in 5 months. But that probably isn't healthy.

Right now I guess the way :Si: PoLR manifests for me is my disdain for fitness related activities for the sake of "health" as well as irregular sleep. It's probably because I'm surrounded by gym jocks at work and I find the gym to be REALLY boring -- what's so fun about doing a couple sets of repetitive movements that don't stimulate your mind? I've done it before and I've hated every minute of it.

I have more inertia than she does -- more difficult to start and stop than she is. Comparatively, she can ramp up to 100mph right away and come to a halt just as quickly. I can't turn my brain off at night, for example.. which doesn't help with that lack of discipline. She's out pretty quickly.

Right, so do I. I tend to stay up for 2 hours before sleeping because there's so many things going through my mind. But it's not all negative, sometimes it's just random thoughts that lead nowhere, or even plotting for my next move. I find it quite exciting, actually.

But when it comes to starting things, I do have the inertia that you described, but once I'm up and running there's no stopping. For this reason I tend to finish whatever I have been given, and to do it quickly, because if I stop halfway, who's going to pick up the slack? To pick up the slack is really, really tiring after you've stopped.

It's almost as if I need an external authority to press the urgency in me.

She's more confident than I am in giving people "the boot," for good and for bad. I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt more than she does, for good and for bad. Generally, I tend to keep almost everyone in good relations but mostly at surface-level, whereas she keeps different people at different distances. (For me, I think that also ties into the "fibers" thing and the problem I expressed in giving my whole "me." So, whatever; I only throw a few out there, depending on the individual.)

Haha, I'm well known to hold grudges, for good and bad. It's really easy for me to cut someone off if I don't like them. But in general, whenever I meet people, I'm nice to them, while at the same time I'm assessing how far or close I should be with the person. Most of the time, it serves me well enough.

She's more tolerant of the day-to-day stuff that has to be done, but she doesn't go out of her way to grab more such stuff (e.g. taking up landscaping as a hobby).

Oh god, I will only do chores if the house is clearly messy, or if someone else tells me to do it, or if I'm falling sick. I just hate home related work other than cooking (whatever I cook tastes better than whatever shops are selling, and you can have more) or paying bills (because you only do it once a month) because it's so tedious and boring. My mother asked me to wipe my windows and fix new curtains, and I threw such a hissy fit over it because I just cannot be bothered?

I would much rather design a house than to actually maintain it.

I could go on. In fact, I probably will in the blog or something.

Link pls

I have the same issue with creating lecture slides and, hell, even typing up docs and reports and papers. "Should I go formal or casual? How do I want to present myself? Active tense? Narrative format? And, side question; what of these is 'me'? What comes naturally to me? No clue."

Oh yes! One of those times where I don't have a clear vision of something, I can spend hours trying to get that vision to happen. Such is the case with most of my papers. I often don't know how to start.


Related to the sort of indecision I was talking about as well. Sometimes I can make the most of it, sometimes it's easy to pick a thing and go, but sometimes I get stuck.
Industrial noise, basically, with a slant toward metal. We really wanted to experiment the first time around. Very few tracks have structure -- that's just how noise music is. (The cliffnote version: tracks 2, 3, 8, 12, and 13.)

Since my material would be forming the base of our next effort if it's not used for solo stuff, it's necessarily more structured and a bit more serious. Relatively, at least.

On where I'm going from here (i.e. writing/recording stuff for use either solo or in cooperation), I have the same sort of problem that I discussed just above. If I find a guitar effects chain that I like, and if I record with it -- and then I find something better, I feel compelled to rerecord my preexisting material. That chain is essentially the template for the entire piece. Gotta find the right one.

(On my own, guitars are front-and-center and so it's a major issue. Thankfully, when we collaborate, throwing in a bunch industrial elements (which we both do, but which is mostly his area) makes that much less of an issue.)

Oh god, this is so much better than the Disclosure or Purity Ring bullshit I listened to at The Good Vibes festival last weekend. I could actually dance to this because it sounds unique, danceable and catchy.

You're right. The reasons I'd doubt LIE is because of my (sometimes) inaction and my (often) inclination toward restraint in social situations. But even those are legit explained by the positions are :Se: and :Fe: (as role) respectively.

I guess now I'll have to think about how I use :Se: and :Fe:. Honestly, I am quite inactive in the sense that my free time is mostly spent watching Korean dramas or playing games, and not so much doing things, other than running errands.

On the few occasions that I go out, my day tends to be packed. My best friend and I went out for 48 hours without sleep, once. It was something to remember, haha.

When I travel, my itinerary tends to be packed as well. I guess it's to make up for my boring daily life?

:Si:-PoLR is way too apparent to ignore for me.

I feel that that is the best PoLR for me. Something about :Ti: PoLR seemed off for me, as I readily explain my thoughts and actions, and I'm not that unpredictable. I'm also quite concise for a :Ti: PoLR.


Pretty interesting. I have my share of bullshit to deal with as well, but with research and teaching there's room for flexibility and creativity. When I'm more in "eat what someone else killed" mode rather than "eat what I kill" mode, I'm necessarily more constrained, but I still strive to make room for those things wherever possible.

That's great to hear!
_

With respect to risk.. well, you and I had talked about opportunity-seizing and changing course, right? It seems to me that, if an opportunity comes up, I wind up naturally thinking it through to some conclusion. Often, multiple possible paths to multiple conclusions, stripping out what's not likely (no, the car is not going to spontaneously catch on fire). Sometimes I'm wrong; sometimes I'm right. But these courses of action often don't even feel like risks, even if they look that way on the outside. The conclusion's just.. kinda taken for granted a lot of the time.

I just did that actually, with regards where I'm going to live in the future. I've thought about living in Malaysia with my father, moving to Europe to take advantage of its social systems and the US to take advantage of the endless opportunities for media folk like me, and after weighing all the practicalities and my measure of happiness, I'd say the US is the best for me.

I've been to Malaysia so many times that I am practically bored of it, and Europe seems like there's a lot of red tape to be an expat if you aren't an EU citizen. There's also the issue of boring food in Europe.

The last time I was in America was in NY in 2014, and I loved every minute of it. The only barrier seems to be the overly complex and competitive visa application system. I don't know how I'm going to deal with that and I can stress myself over it, but now is not the time for it. It's the time to be setting up my base and gaining experience.

But again, I can be wrong. I once had a plan of action that I was dead certain would land me a contract (I called the strategic back-and-forth "checkers rather than chess"), but it didn't pan out even though it was "obvious" to me.

Oh god, I was like that when I got the interview at Ogilvy for an internship. I was so certain about what I was going to say and do, and when the interview finally happened, they asked me some weird question that I couldn't answer. I stumbled for a bit, and naturally I didn't get it. It was for a PR internship, and it was okay though. I tried PR in another agency and I hated every minute of it. You're basically playing customer service to clients and journalists, and I hated that so much.

I didn't see it at the time, but the copywriting internship I landed was a godsend. It was a door to my future. Doing copywriting in-house was quite boring, as I had grumped about it in the past, but the second internship at a worldwide agency... now that was a blast! I remember working on weekends until 7am the next day to crank out a campaign draft and it was awesome! The ideas were good, we had room to be creative and we came up with stuff, unlike the in-house where you had to abide by house rules and styles.

I try to update any trajectory/plan I have with more information as it comes along, but sometimes you get blindsided.

Of course!
 

Kierva

#KUWK
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
2,469
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx

Ah yes, I stumbled upon that and it was golden, especially the bit where I have "vanity for not having vanity". It took me a long time to realize this, but I'm showy in very subtle ways. For example, I usually jump at the opportunity to show my skill in something that I've practiced relentlessly at, and then sort of live through the applause and compliments. It's this romanticization of hard work, where people only see what's the end product, and that's all they need to see, really. But knowing that they enjoy and appreciate the hard work I've put in, that's the best feeling in the world.


I got you on that. I've met other 3s and they're the showboating kind, and it's so... phony, you know? Because I see through those feathers and it's really just another peacock that can't fly. What's the point of bragging if you don't have the chops? I want to be seen as competent, hence why I strive to be competent.


Oh god I would have hated you back then. If I had to work or be in close proximity within you back then, I would have jumped at every opportunity to talk shit about you. You're pretty cool now though, it's amazing how some years can really make someone grow.
 
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