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Type me - because I sure can't!

satori

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
7
Hi everyone :hi:

I'm sorry in advance for the length of this; I know what I'm like when it comes to written discourse. It's going to get real very quickly, haha. In a nutshell; I'm having a lot of trouble typing myself.

I'd love your opinions and insights. I'm going to be as open and honest as possible, and resist any urge to go back and rewrite any answers.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

The fact that I am inherently unsure of so many things in life. I constantly feel like there is - or very much should be - some singular truth that is eluding me. This is how I feel about MBTi - I wish to type myself accurately, this is SO important to me, to be able to understand myself at the deepest level. I have taken numerous online tests, but always ask myself; 'am I just identifying with the one I want to be?' 'how can I be answering the questions accurately if I'm answering them from the perspective of my own self?' 'Am I properly representing my true self or an idealistic version?' This has prompted me to seek other educated opinions - of which I do often - to see how well they resonate and fit into the constantly changing and evolving paradigms inside my mind.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
To understand the mysteries of life, and my place in it. To understand myself, what holds me back, and what I am here to do. To have deep conversations, to learn, and to evolve. To reach a higher level of consciousness. (yes, always very grandiose. I'm also good at laughing at myself, don't worry.).

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

Any time that I am able to break through other peoples' barriers and connect with them over the things in life that truly matter. To help them reach new realisations. I am able to have these moments both in one-on-one conversations, and also group settings and even public speaking, which I am surprisingly good at. I am a secondary teacher, so I get these opportunities often.

4) What makes you feel inferior?
That I have never quite fit into society's mould, which I simultaneously reject, but in the same breath, allow to bother me far more than it should. I'm very aware of how I appear to others, so much so that I will often 'play act' a certain way around certain people, to display a version of myself that they respond to the best and like the most. I'm very good at this.
I don't take criticism very well and can get emotional about it.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
I am the most indecisive person in the universe. I chalk this up to seeing so many different sides of a decision, being able to place myself in a great many different perspectives at once, and then endlessly remunerating over the decision and constantly doubting the choice I've made. I take on a lot of other peoples' opinions and weigh them against one another, and against my own beliefs at the time. I am slowly becoming better at trusting my own judgement but I very rarely make a hasty decision. If I can get away with keeping things open-ended and flexible, I will do that for as long as I possibly can.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
It entirely depends on the project. If I see it as important, with a greater meaning, and feel emotionally invested in it in some way, I will go all-in, and usually try to control most of it (always subtly - I'm never, ever bossy/confrontational; in fact I'm almost fearful of negative confrontation. If I don't watch myself, I can be very manipulative/secretive). If I don't see the real point of a project, or its 'small potatoes', I'll likely find a loophole which allows me to do the least amount of work, for the most gain.

7) Describe a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?
Travelling. New experiences. The problem is, I do this far less than I should, considering how much I enjoy it. This is due to indecisiveness; a lot of time spent wondering where I should go, when, money, who with, reasons not to, etc. etc. When I do, however, I suddenly find myself immersed and loving the new adventure. This, also, I am slowly learning to move past but its very difficult for me to quell the prior over-thinking.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you?
Not really sure what this question is asking. I love learning new things, but I have difficulty staying committed to one thing long-term. I spend a lot of time pinpointing new things I want to learn, beginning to learn them, and then falling off the wagon due to boredom or some other thread of interest that suddenly grabs my fancy. In general, I learn quickly. I excel in creative endeavours and have a strong flair for aesthetics, but equally love literature, poetry, music, philosophical debate and some scientific discourse. Jack of all trades, master of none.

9) How organized do you think of yourself as?
Very. I have a terrific short- and long-term memory, very little slips through. If I don't do something, its never because I forgot. It's because I didn't want to, or simply put it off. Quite a few things fall into that category.

10) How do you judge new ideas? Do you try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
Tricky one. I'd say both. I'd say I try to understand the principles first, then if I sniff out some credibility and it seems to make sense in my mind, I look for more information to support it. I often like the idea of things, but I feel myself to be very idealistic and often play devils advocate with myself, to make sure I'm not just seeking out what I want to hear, so to speak. I don't want to trick myself into believing something that isn't true.

11) Do you find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
This is hard to answer, because ideally, I feel both is equally necessary for harmony. I believe that what is best for myself should also be what is best for others, really. I don't like the idea that what is best for me should go against what is best for others, fundamentally. This doesn't make sense to me.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
Another one where I am both. (Do you see now why I have such a hard time typing myself!?) But, if I had to fall toward one side of preference, I will say that more often, I think before speaking and I prefer one-on-one communication where I can tune into just one person instead of multiple at once.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
I like to know where I am jumping.
Action speaks louder than words, but I am not a good example of that. I get there in the end, but in a more considered way, shall we say. Improving in my efforts here.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
I spend an inordinate amount of time in my own world, at home, which is very much me. But, every now and again I crave human interaction and like a night out. When I do choose to go out (which is very dependent on the specific people who will be there), I am lively and outgoing.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I retreat and spend a lot of time alone, trying to work out why and how to 'fix it'. Thoughts and emotions spin so rapidly about in my brain, and events past and present replay themselves over and over. Anxiety and trouble sleeping. I am easily fatigued, due to very excessive brain activity. I find it hard to distract myself at times like this.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
When a person acts too aloof and I can't break through that veneer. It bothers me and makes me feel like they think they are better than me, and others. Initially, they will be like a mystery that intrigues me, but if my efforts to connect with them go unrewarded, or if I feel dismissed or cold-shouldered, I dislike them more than is called for and I become unfairly judgemental.
To a lesser extent, I sometimes get frustrated when people are self-obsessed and only ever talk about themselves. I ask a lot of questions about others - as I'm always genuinely interested in people in general - so when that's not reciprocated, it can annoy me.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
Anything that animates people. That creates 'real moments'. For a lot of people, that's their families, or their passions, or memories. Bigger-picture stuff.
I hate small talk. I'm good at it I suppose, but I can't stand it. It feels like a big idiotic parade.

18) What kind of things do you pay the least attention to in your life?
I really don't know how to answer this one! I feel like I pay too much attention to everything at once, and needlessly so. I really didn't need to think for that long about every possibility surrounding my car service, did I? But I did. Oh yes I did.
I suppose as I said before, I can be neglectful of long-term projects and hobbies, but I'm not overly concerned with this, as I've often just found something better/more interesting and beneficial to pursue.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
I have this thing that I sometimes find a little disturbing to admit, where I feel my friends each perceive me in such different ways to each other, just as everybody does, because I actually feel like I mirror peoples' personalities back at them. I sort of absorb and mirror them, in my interactions with them. So much so, that I often can't pinpoint my core personality, hence trying to get a bit of a conceptual map of my true self via MBTi and cognitive functions! I also journal a LOT in an effort to read back and work myself out, as if clues are hidden in the pages I write.
Something that my friends would never say to my face is that I can be intense and talk too much about deep things. I'm aware of this and quite in-tune socially - as I'm always honing in to see if I'm losing the other person while in conversation - so I make a conscious effort to break it up with humour and light-hearted topics.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
A long walk where I can think and tease out whats going on in my mind.

See a close friend for brunch and talk about my life, their life, the state of the world.
Watch a thought-provoking or emotionally charged movie.
Wonder around in the city and people-watch.
Endlessly search the internet for information, ideas, intriguing new perspectives, and follow those 'down the rabbit hole', and then try to somehow fit it into some neat paradigm in my head, which ideally, applies to all situations. Another piece of the puzzle solved!

Thanks so much for reading all of this, and for helping me understand the odd nature of whatever is going on with my personality.
 

Pionart

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Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
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MBTI Type
NiFe
How can you be manipulative AND afraid of confrontation?

That's rather baffling.
 

satori

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Jul 30, 2016
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7
How can you be manipulative AND afraid of confrontation?

That's rather baffling.

Sorry - I don't think I explained that well.
I am non-confrontational so I will not order somebody around and very much dislike having to "face up" to somebody about something negative. I hate arguments, even just being around arguments; they make me feel extremely uncomfortable.
Therefore, to "get my way", I will manipulate the situation to my advantage using subtlety. I won't be up-front.

I hope that gives more clarity.
 

Pionart

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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
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MBTI Type
NiFe
Sorry - I don't think I explained that well.
I am non-confrontational so I will not order somebody around and feel very uncomfortable if I have to "face up" to somebody. I hate arguments, they make me feel very uncomfortable.
Therefore, to "get my way", I will manipulate the situation to my advantage using subtlety. I won't be up-front.

I hope that gives more clarity.

I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you mean by "manipulate" in that case?

I mean I "manipulate" mathematics equations, but I take it you're using the word in a different sense here?

What do you mean by manipulation? Could you provide examples?
 

Pionart

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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
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NiFe
It sounds like you're a 2 (so 8 is the disintegration point, which is why you fear it).

Also most likely Fe rather than Fi. Fi types aren't generally manipulative.

However you describe yourself as quite introverted, so I would say ISFJ Type 2w3.
 

satori

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I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you mean by "manipulate" in that case?

I mean I "manipulate" mathematics equations, but I take it you're using the word in a different sense here?

What do you mean by manipulation? Could you provide examples?

A synonym might be persuasion or coercion, does that help?

I can't think of an exact recent example (which is probably a good thing, not exactly something to be proud of!), but if I wanted a particular outcome, my tendency would be to try to influence those around me. I'd do this by identifying a way to persuade them to do what I want them to do, or come to some conclusion that I wish them to come to, in order to align the situation as I want. I wouldn't be upfront about it, or try to boss somebody into doing something.
 

DigitalSoul

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Jul 22, 2016
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Hi, [MENTION=28571]satori[/MENTION]!

I'd say that you're INFJ or INFP. These two types have entirely different cognitive functions -it's not just "J or P"-, but parts of your replies suggested the former and other parts the latter, so I can't tell you with confidence which one you really are.
 

Pionart

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Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
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MBTI Type
NiFe
A synonym might be persuasion or coercion, does that help?

I can't think of an exact recent example (which is probably a good thing, not exactly something to be proud of!), but if I wanted a particular outcome, my tendency would be to try to influence those around me. I'd do this by identifying a way to persuade them to do what I want them to do, or come to some conclusion that I wish them to come to, in order to align the situation as I want. I wouldn't be upfront about it, or try to boss somebody into doing something.

It says coercion is the use of threats. However, you said you're afraid of confrontation, so that would be the wrong word to use.

So I would say you're using Si as the dominant function (this is where your habits etc. would be) and making sure others adapt to these habits by using Fe.

Does this sound correct?
 

Pionart

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Sep 17, 2014
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NiFe
Hi, [MENTION=28571]satori[/MENTION]!

I'd say that you're INFJ or INFP. These two types have entirely different cognitive functions -it's not just "J or P"-, but parts of your replies suggested the former and other parts the latter, so I can't tell you with confidence which one you really are.

Hey, where are you getting the N preference from?

I was only seeing S, but I may be missing something here?
 

satori

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Jul 30, 2016
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7
You're right, wrong word to use therefore. Definitely not threats, gosh :shock: If anything, I could stand to improve in pushing back against people a bit and standing up for myself...!

Fe sounds correct.

Cognitive function tests I've done indicate both Ni and Ne as most dominant functions.
Also Ti.
Very little use of Se.

I'm always unconvinced as to how accurate these results are, however, as I find some of the questions are always very subjective/curiously worded/open to interpretation, which may skew....
 

satori

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Hey, where are you getting the N preference from?

I was only seeing S, but I may be missing something here?


Identifying whether I prefer Si or Ni could be very helpful.

Can these two appear similar?
 

Pionart

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Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
You're right, wrong word to use therefore. Definitely not threats, gosh :shock: If anything, I could stand to improve in pushing back against people a bit and standing up for myself...!

Fe sounds correct.

Cognitive function tests I've done indicate both Ni and Ne as most dominant functions.
Also Ti.
Very little use of Se.

I'm always unconvinced as to how accurate these results are, however, as I find some of the questions are always very subjective/curiously worded/open to interpretation, which may skew....

You may have fallen prey to the intuitive bias in that case. There's a stereotype going around on MBTI forums that Intuition is a better function than Sensing, so you may be answering the questions accordingly, however, I am not seeing the N in your posts.

So yeah, ISFJ 2w3 still works.
 

Pionart

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Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
Identifying whether I prefer Si or Ni could be very helpful.

Can these two appear similar?

It's usually quite easy to tell through interaction with someone if they're an Ni dominant or Si dominant. Si dominant seem to take a long time to understand things, whereas Ni dominants pick it up quickly.
 

satori

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It's usually quite easy to tell through interaction with someone if they're an Ni dominant or Si dominant. Si dominant seem to take a long time to understand things, whereas Ni dominants pick it up quickly.

This is so interesting, thanks Legion for this. I need to properly research Si and how I might use it. Tricky in terms of speed of understanding things, because whilst I pick up things very quickly and constantly reel through how they might play out in terms of connections to other things, there are also times when I take a long time to properly understand something, due to my general nature of wishing to delve deeply into a topic and not blindly believe it.

If there's any other polarising examples you can offer as to preference of Si vs Ni, that would be great.
 

DigitalSoul

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Jul 22, 2016
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Hey, where are you getting the N preference from?

I was only seeing S, but I may be missing something here?

Perhaps you're not missing something here, but we simply have a different opinion on how the N-S divide manifests cognitively and behaviorally. It is also equally likely that I could be wrong, and that you have a better and deeper understanding of the different typologies. Even Jung at some point typed himself as an S, when in my eyes, in pretty much everyone's eyes, and even in his own eyes in other points of his life, he was an N. The bottom line is that this isn't an exact science, and I'm not willing to debate my opinion with anyone here, as such debates usually don't end well online. The OP can simply ignore my opinion entirely, if other experienced members agree with you. It's that simple. Have a good [your time zone]. :peaceout:
 

satori

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Perhaps you're not missing something here, but we simply have a different opinion on how the N-S divide manifests cognitively and behaviorally. It is also equally likely that I could be wrong, and that you have a better and deeper understanding of the different typologies. Even Jung at some point typed himself as an S, when in my eyes, in pretty much everyone's eyes, and even in his own eyes in other points of his life, he identified as an N. The bottom line is that this isn't an exact science, and I'm not willing to debate my opinion with anyone here, as such debates usually don't end well online. The OP can simply ignore my opinion entirely, if other experienced members agree with you. It's that simple. Have a good [your time zone]. :peaceout:

Hi DigitalSoul,

I'd really love to hear your perspectives on N. It's really helpful for me to hear a number of different opinions. If you're willing, can you elaborate? Is N indicated in any of my responses?
I completely agree that behaviourally and cognitively the functions can be very difficult to pinpoint. I'm genuinely not sure if I preferentially use N or S. I initially was trying to decipher between Ni and Ne as dominant. Would love for you to share.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Hi everyone :hi:

I'm sorry in advance for the length of this; I know what I'm like when it comes to written discourse. It's going to get real very quickly, haha. In a nutshell; I'm having a lot of trouble typing myself.

I'd love your opinions and insights. I'm going to be as open and honest as possible, and resist any urge to go back and rewrite any answers.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

The fact that I am inherently unsure of so many things in life. I constantly feel like there is - or very much should be - some singular truth that is eluding me. This is how I feel about MBTi - I wish to type myself accurately, this is SO important to me, to be able to understand myself at the deepest level. I have taken numerous online tests, but always ask myself; 'am I just identifying with the one I want to be?' 'how can I be answering the questions accurately if I'm answering them from the perspective of my own self?' 'Am I properly representing my true self or an idealistic version?' This has prompted me to seek other educated opinions - of which I do often - to see how well they resonate and fit into the constantly changing and evolving paradigms inside my mind.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
To understand the mysteries of life, and my place in it. To understand myself, what holds me back, and what I am here to do. To have deep conversations, to learn, and to evolve. To reach a higher level of consciousness. (yes, always very grandiose. I'm also good at laughing at myself, don't worry.).

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

Any time that I am able to break through other peoples' barriers and connect with them over the things in life that truly matter. To help them reach new realisations. I am able to have these moments both in one-on-one conversations, and also group settings and even public speaking, which I am surprisingly good at. I am a secondary teacher, so I get these opportunities often.

4) What makes you feel inferior?
That I have never quite fit into society's mould, which I simultaneously reject, but in the same breath, allow to bother me far more than it should. I'm very aware of how I appear to others, so much so that I will often 'play act' a certain way around certain people, to display a version of myself that they respond to the best and like the most. I'm very good at this.
I don't take criticism very well and can get emotional about it.

From Karen Horney's "Our Inner Conflicts" -

...The idealized image is thus an attempt at solving the basic conflict, an attempt of at least as great importance as the others I have described. It has the enormous subjective value of serving as a binder, of holding together a divided individual. And although it exists only in the person's mind, it exerts a decisive influence on his relations with others.

The idealized image might be called a fictitious or illusory self, but that would be only a half truth and hence misleading. The wishful thinking operating in its creation is certainly striking, particularly since it occurs in persons who otherwise stand on a ground of firm reality. But this does not make it wholly fictitious. It is an imaginative creation interwoven with and determined by very realistic factors. It usually contains traces of the person's genuine ideals. While the grandiose achievements are illusory, the potentialities underlying them are often real. More relevant, it is born of very real inner necessities, it fulfills very real functions, and it has a very real influence on its creator. The processes operating in its creation are determined by such definite laws that a knowledge of its specific features permits us to make accurate inferences as to the true character structure of the particular person.
But regardless of how much fantasy is woven into the idealized image, for the neurotic himself it has the value of reality. The more firmly it is established the more he is his idealized image, while his real self is proportionately dimmed out. This reversal of the actual picture is bound to come about because of the very nature of the functions the image performs. Every one of them is aimed at effacing the real personality and turning the spotlight on itself. Looking back over the history of many patients we are led to believe that its establishment has often been literally lifesaving, and that is why the resistance a patient puts up if his image is attacked is entirely justified, or at least logical. As long as his image remains real to him and is intact, he can feel significant, superior, and harmonious, in spite of the illusory nature of those feelings. He can consider himself entitled to raise all kinds of demands and claims on the basis of his assumed superiority. But if he allows it to be undermined he is immediately threatened with the prospect of facing all his weaknesses, with no title to special claims, a comparatively insignificant figure or even—in his own eyes—a contemptible one. More terrifying still, he is faced with his conflicts and the hideous fear of being torn to pieces. That this may give him a chance of becoming a much better human being, worth more than all the glory of his idealized image, is a gospel he hears but that for a long time means nothing to him. It is a leap in the dark of which he is afraid.​


As for your type, you're a type 9w1 in the enneagram, and probably the INFP mbti type.

I retreat and spend a lot of time alone, trying to work out why and how to 'fix it'. Thoughts and emotions spin so rapidly about in my brain, and events past and present replay themselves over and over. Anxiety and trouble sleeping. I am easily fatigued, due to very excessive brain activity. I find it hard to distract myself at times like this.

That statement can be seen in both the type 9 deteriorating to 6 (your stress point where you retreat), and your Si tertiary type ("past and present replay themselves over and over"). "Anxiety and trouble sleeping." This indicates you're in the Head triad of the enneagram, and generalized anxiety is type 6. So you're moving backward, not progressing forward to type 3.

As for your being manipulative in order to avoid confrontation, the neurotic type 9 will do anything to avoid confrontation. Manipulation is the method through which the type 9 achieves a goal through other people. Manipulation is a form of passive-aggression.

"With so great a subjective value to recommend it, the position of the [idealized self-] image would be unassailable if it were not for the huge drawbacks inseparable from it. The whole edifice is in the first place extremely rickety by reason of the fictitious elements involved. A treasure house loaded with dynamite, it makes the individual highly vulnerable. Any questioning or criticism from outside, any awareness of his own failure to measure up to the image, any real insight into the forces operating within him can make it explode or crumble. He must restrict his life lest he be exposed to such dangers. He must avoid situations in which he would not be admired or recognized. He must avoid tasks that he is not certain to master. He may even develop an intense aversion to effort of any kind. To him, the gifted one, the mere vision of a picture he might paint is already the master painting. Any mediocre person can get somewhere by hard work; for him to apply himself like every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be an admission that he is not the mastermind, and so humiliating. Since nothing can actually be achieved without work, he defeats by his attitude the very ends he is driven to attain. And the gap between his idealized image and his real self widens."

You have an idealized self-image and a real image which are in conflict. You lack a sense of identity and self-worth. You aren't up to whatever task you take on because you fear failure, thus you procrastinate; but you rationalize procrastinating by telling yourself you found something more beneficial to occupy your time. You love and hate people at the same time. You fear to be around them because of the way they can make you feel, which is not the ideal way you would prefer to feel. On the other hand, you need their company in order to fill your mind with something besides your worries. You ruminate over the past because of real or perceived mistakes or other threats to your precarious self-esteem. You can't make up your mind about things because you are full of contradictions, your soul lacks coherence. You need to give up the precious, idealized self-image, and make the integrative move to the healthy levels of enneagram 3.

"When healthy Nines integrate to Three, they become self-assured and interested in developing themselves and their talents to the fullest extent possible. They move from self-possession to making something more of themselves, from a just-being-born presence in the world to an active, inner-directed force...Integrating Nines have connected with their vitality...Nines have always feared their aggressive impulses, and now they realize that they no longer have to, since these impulses are not necessarily destructive, but rather can lead to self-development."

Learn to stop manipulating and start asserting. Your views on things are too black-and-white. It's not a choice between subtle manipulation versus using force.

"Any time that I am able to break through other peoples' barriers and connect with them over the things in life that truly matter. To help them reach new realisations. I am able to have these moments both in one-on-one conversations." You need to talk to yourself the same way you talk to others, and to accommodate yourself the same way you accommodate others. You likely want to bring out the best in others, but then live through them vicariously and enjoy their successes as if they were your own. Bringing out the best in others is commendable in its way, but not when you lose yourself in the process.
 

DigitalSoul

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Jul 22, 2016
Messages
27
Hi DigitalSoul,

I'd really love to hear your perspectives on N. It's really helpful for me to hear a number of different opinions. If you're willing, can you elaborate? Is N indicated in any of my responses?
I completely agree that behaviourally and cognitively the functions can be very difficult to pinpoint. I'm genuinely not sure if I preferentially use N or S. I initially was trying to decipher between Ni and Ne as dominant. Would love for you to share.

Dear [MENTION=28571]satori[/MENTION],

Instead of elaborating here, which will open a debate, I could pm you, if [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] has no objection.

Here, I can offer you some material which I believe will help you decide whether Ni or Si is your dominant function.

Now, before I give you this material, I'd like to share with you a very useful piece of advice from the Myers-Briggs Foundation:

The Myers & Briggs Foundation said:
Suppose you are unsure whether you prefer, for example, Sensing (S) or Intuition (N) as your perceiving function, but the other preferences Extraversion (E), Thinking (T), and Judging (J) are clear to you. Many type practitioners would then focus on the S-N uncertainty and review or discuss the differences in that pair.

But the real question at this point is not whether you are an S or an N, but whether you are an ESTJ or an ENTJ. The essences of those two types are very different.

  • The ESTJ is focused on getting things done smoothly and efficiently. As an SJ, you have a core need for seeking the good of the community, a sense of belonging, and learning from the past.
  • The ENTJ, on the other hand, is focused on implementing new ideas and challenges. As an NT, you are likely to be concerned primarily with competence and intellectual resourcefulness.

The common ground with [MENTION=22833]Legion[/MENTION] is that you're IxFJ, so instead of trying to find out whether you use either of these notoriously difficult (in theory) to differentiate cognitive functions -you can also do that later, and I will offer you material to read-, you should first check which temperament (NF or SJ) you belong to. So, Step 1 is to take these temperament tests: 1 2 3.

Step 2 will be to read descriptions of I N F J and I S F J and see what fits best.

Step 3, which I'm sure is probably more tempting to you at this point of the conversation is to read descriptions of Ni and Si and decide which one feels like your dominant. If unsure, there's always this test to you help a little or a lot.

So, Step 3. This is the most difficult way to find out your type, if you're just starting, because descriptions of the functions vary in difficulty, ranging from Jung's own descriptions that cause so much controversy in interpretation, to 2-line descriptions that somehow seem right. The ones below are slightly above average in difficulty of comprehension, but I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Berens & Nardi said:
Ni - Introverted Intuiting
Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.

Si - Introverted Sensing
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.

Again by Berens and Nardi, but shorter descriptions:

Berens and Nardi said:
Introverted iNtuiting: Foreseeing implications and likely effects without external data; realizing "what will be"; conceptualizing new ways of seeing things; envisioning transformations; getting an image of profound meaning or far-reaching symbols. Envisioning yourself in an outfit or maybe envisioning yourself being a certain way.

Introverted Sensing: Reviewing past experiences; "what is" evoking "what was"; seeking detailed information and links to what is known; recalling stored impressions; accumulating data; recognizing the way things have always been. Remembering the last time you wore a particular item or the last time you were at a similar event—maybe even remembering how you felt then.

These are just for starters. There are MANY good definitions out there, but this post is already long enough. Should you need more definitions, I'll post them in a later post.

That's it for now. Good luck! :)


P.S.

a. Looking at my post again, I believe that if you follow these steps, you will be able to see for yourself why I suggested that you're an iNtuitive, and I really won't have anything to explain further. :)

b. I haven't changed my first typing: I believe you're either INFJ or INFP (see my first post). This post was just to discuss the common ground with [MENTION=22833]Legion[/MENTION] and help you find out if you're an INFJ or an ISFJ.
 

Mal12345

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From Karen Horney's "Our Inner Conflicts" -

...The idealized image is thus an attempt at solving the basic conflict, an attempt of at least as great importance as the others I have described. It has the enormous subjective value of serving as a binder, of holding together a divided individual. And although it exists only in the person's mind, it exerts a decisive influence on his relations with others.

The idealized image might be called a fictitious or illusory self, but that would be only a half truth and hence misleading. The wishful thinking operating in its creation is certainly striking, particularly since it occurs in persons who otherwise stand on a ground of firm reality. But this does not make it wholly fictitious. It is an imaginative creation interwoven with and determined by very realistic factors. It usually contains traces of the person's genuine ideals. While the grandiose achievements are illusory, the potentialities underlying them are often real. More relevant, it is born of very real inner necessities, it fulfills very real functions, and it has a very real influence on its creator. The processes operating in its creation are determined by such definite laws that a knowledge of its specific features permits us to make accurate inferences as to the true character structure of the particular person.
But regardless of how much fantasy is woven into the idealized image, for the neurotic himself it has the value of reality. The more firmly it is established the more he is his idealized image, while his real self is proportionately dimmed out. This reversal of the actual picture is bound to come about because of the very nature of the functions the image performs. Every one of them is aimed at effacing the real personality and turning the spotlight on itself. Looking back over the history of many patients we are led to believe that its establishment has often been literally lifesaving, and that is why the resistance a patient puts up if his image is attacked is entirely justified, or at least logical. As long as his image remains real to him and is intact, he can feel significant, superior, and harmonious, in spite of the illusory nature of those feelings. He can consider himself entitled to raise all kinds of demands and claims on the basis of his assumed superiority. But if he allows it to be undermined he is immediately threatened with the prospect of facing all his weaknesses, with no title to special claims, a comparatively insignificant figure or even—in his own eyes—a contemptible one. More terrifying still, he is faced with his conflicts and the hideous fear of being torn to pieces. That this may give him a chance of becoming a much better human being, worth more than all the glory of his idealized image, is a gospel he hears but that for a long time means nothing to him. It is a leap in the dark of which he is afraid.​


As for your type, you're a type 9w1 in the enneagram, and probably the INFP mbti type.

I retreat and spend a lot of time alone, trying to work out why and how to 'fix it'. Thoughts and emotions spin so rapidly about in my brain, and events past and present replay themselves over and over. Anxiety and trouble sleeping. I am easily fatigued, due to very excessive brain activity. I find it hard to distract myself at times like this.

That statement can be seen in both the type 9 deteriorating to 6 (your stress point where you retreat), and your Si tertiary type ("past and present replay themselves over and over"). "Anxiety and trouble sleeping." This indicates you're in the Head triad of the enneagram, and generalized anxiety is type 6. So you're moving backward, not progressing forward to type 3.

As for your being manipulative in order to avoid confrontation, the neurotic type 9 will do anything to avoid confrontation. Manipulation is the method through which the type 9 achieves a goal through other people. Manipulation is a form of passive-aggression.

"With so great a subjective value to recommend it, the position of the [idealized self-] image would be unassailable if it were not for the huge drawbacks inseparable from it. The whole edifice is in the first place extremely rickety by reason of the fictitious elements involved. A treasure house loaded with dynamite, it makes the individual highly vulnerable. Any questioning or criticism from outside, any awareness of his own failure to measure up to the image, any real insight into the forces operating within him can make it explode or crumble. He must restrict his life lest he be exposed to such dangers. He must avoid situations in which he would not be admired or recognized. He must avoid tasks that he is not certain to master. He may even develop an intense aversion to effort of any kind. To him, the gifted one, the mere vision of a picture he might paint is already the master painting. Any mediocre person can get somewhere by hard work; for him to apply himself like every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be an admission that he is not the mastermind, and so humiliating. Since nothing can actually be achieved without work, he defeats by his attitude the very ends he is driven to attain. And the gap between his idealized image and his real self widens."

You have an idealized self-image and a real image which are in conflict. You lack a sense of identity and self-worth. You aren't up to whatever task you take on because you fear failure, thus you procrastinate; but you rationalize procrastinating by telling yourself you found something more beneficial to occupy your time. You love and hate people at the same time. You fear to be around them because of the way they can make you feel, which is not the ideal way you would prefer to feel. On the other hand, you need their company in order to fill your mind with something besides your worries. You ruminate over the past because of real or perceived mistakes or other threats to your precarious self-esteem. You can't make up your mind about things because you are full of contradictions, your soul lacks coherence. You need to give up the precious, idealized self-image, and make the integrative move to the healthy levels of enneagram 3.

"When healthy Nines integrate to Three, they become self-assured and interested in developing themselves and their talents to the fullest extent possible. They move from self-possession to making something more of themselves, from a just-being-born presence in the world to an active, inner-directed force...Integrating Nines have connected with their vitality...Nines have always feared their aggressive impulses, and now they realize that they no longer have to, since these impulses are not necessarily destructive, but rather can lead to self-development."

Learn to stop manipulating and start asserting. Your views on things are too black-and-white. It's not a choice between subtle manipulation versus using force.

"Any time that I am able to break through other peoples' barriers and connect with them over the things in life that truly matter. To help them reach new realisations. I am able to have these moments both in one-on-one conversations." You need to talk to yourself the same way you talk to others, and to accommodate yourself the same way you accommodate others. You likely want to bring out the best in others, but then live through them vicariously and enjoy their successes as if they were your own. Bringing out the best in others is commendable in its way, but not when you lose yourself in the process.

I don't know why I said "probably INFP." The answer is INFP.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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Hey [MENTION=28571]satori[/MENTION], don't know your type, but I'd highly recommend getting the fuck out of here before the community starts infecting your mind. You'll either end up as the opressed or the opressor. I guess if you like sucking your own dick, it might be a good community to stay in and stroke your ego, but it's really a disgusting pile of shit.
 
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