I don't know which is my real type: INFJ, INFP, INTJ or INTP.

[Aliceyn]

Hello everyone, I am a new member so... this is my first actual post and because I'm very busy with my "disturbing" university of social life, so I'm not always up there and online. So some of you may know or [SUP]forget me[/SUP].

So, yes, exactly what the title has said: I am actually confused my real type right now and after researching some sites and even try to learn the cognitive functions, I still... very unstable about my personality. I took MBTI test two or three years ago and got INTJ at first, but then I went back and retook it again, getting INFJ, then INFP, sometimes INTP as results. I posted this thread to ask for your guys help and waited to be given some insights . [SUP]God, guys please help me I'm depressed argh![/SUP]


To start off:

1. I'm very interested about international culture, people, travelling and worldwide ideas. My dream is to go, study as much as I can and work in foreign places. Though, I am actually not that kind of adventurous person. I like the idea that whenever I enter a new journey to another country, I usually spend some time in there, live among the locals and peacefully enjoy everything, in order to understand their thoughts and traditions, then turn these experiences into novel ideas in my writing papers and stories. I believe that is the way to enrich and refine one's life.

Extra: I love nature, nature-sounding meditation and would love to have a small nature-bounding house, near the Buddhist temple where I can write novels and live peacefully. The city is not bad either, although it's crowded and noisy and pressured... -v-.

2. I am very sensitive, even to the overly-emotional or hypersensitive point sometimes. But I never tell the people who hurts me about what I actually feel, until to the maximum point when the volcano needs to be active because it cannot hold back anymore, then I will truly say everything from the top (most ancient) to the bottom (most recent), or in reverse said timeline, straight to the face of the person who has hurted me. Also crying and yelling if he/she also wants some extra drama.

... And you guys know the result: nobody, even the ones who are just witnesses of those events, will ever talk to me again . [SUP]I'm forever alone[/SUP].

3. In addition to literature and social sciences, I also take interest in learning natural sciences (but not technology ^^). I actually like to study Biology and Mathematics. But Physics and Chemistry are different, they are tough, or just too tough for me -_-.

4. I'm a cloud-cuckoo-lander and bad listener. My head is always in the cloud and tends to unfocused during classes and seminars. The only subject I can focus and listen to the teacher in the university is Histology, because I've read the textbook before class and my teacher, who is the Head of the Department, is very good and he only says and explains basic things in the textbook, that's why I can follow easily. Other than that, I tend to sleep when whoever teaches things I don't understand/take interest in at that time. I'm a global learner by the way.

I actually study on my own by reading the textbook more than learning and listening from any teacher or tutor.

5. Maybe not in English, but in Vietnamese (my mother tongue) I am kind of a grammar Nazi... perfectionistic if you want a much nicer word to say.

6. When I'm perfectly healthy and confident, I usually don't mind of my surroundings and only focus on my own job. But when I am insecure and begin to aware of my social status is actually lower (inferior?) to others, I actually feel quite envy and anxious when I have to sit next to them. Especially when that person (who I called a friend) does not aware of how private I need to be and is sometimes ignorant of what I have try to do things that please him/her. Thus I think I need to stay from them for a while and people called that as "strange, up-and-down" and "unfriendly".

7. I'm quite honest and straight forward when talking about objective topics, things. But I am also aware of how sensitive people will be when you touches/crushes their opinion, so I usually use my "poor" social skills to at least keep the harmony and avoid unnecessary debate. But secretly, I keep my opinion inside.

8. Close relatives and my family usually comment about me as the "selfish, conservative, argumentative and passive-aggressive one" of the family. They also said that I am too "bossy, dominating and wants things in my own way". And that I always want to be the "right one" and never wrong, that's why I'm always lonely and no one likes to befriend with me. But that was when I was a child.

9. I always know how to act "properly" and hate self-pity. But when somebody cries I definitely will come over and comfort them -v-, although my social skills are just average or even below average and I don't know how to comfort people ^^.

10. A friendly person, but need time to be alone and stare at no where, having thoughts to be free in my mind. But nobody understands my effort. I did try my best to make friends, but sometimes they are just too insensitive to see it and think I am "antisocial".

11. I always say opposite things to people I think that I close to. For example, if I like them, I will say I hate them. If I see their clothes are very nice, I would say their clothes are "weird" ^^. I'm sorry, but that's just my habit. I'm very good at writing poems that can melt anybody's heart (at least that what my friends who has listened, tell me), but very bad at giving compliments. Floral-izing verbal skills is not my specialty, so yeah, sorry again (is that even English?)

12. I am very private and independent. To be honest, I hate taking part of any teamwork. From high school, whenever taking Biology assignment I only register to do it alone. It's sort of, To be competent, you have to do things on your own. I cannot learn many things when I join to a group of people. And also, social interaction while doing rational works that requires knowledge and focus is just purely disturbing.

13. Although I am mentally strong and have high fortress that usually only people having the same ideas can pass through, I abhors violence and easily... cry for help whenever somebody is about to physically abuse me.

14. Whenever I watch movies or read books that has tragic parts, scenes, I cry. Like I said, I am sensitive but I hardly ever show them to anyone. Novels, classical music, folk music, poetry and all kinds of arts are centre of my life. I want to be a novelist someday, but for the sake of economic stability I have to study sciences now in the university, to get a good job in the future.

15. I usually make up stories and imagine characters in my head ^^. A lot. I just too dreamy, complicated and idealistic compared to my simple-minded but hardworking and realistic ESFJ friend. That's why I think I am INFP sometimes, but then, I think I am too "dominating" to be one. And not nice enough either -v-. I also don't like to talk about imaginary supernatural beings, because seriously, those things do not exist.

16. My dream world is usually setting in the far future, not in the past (although I do love to talk about history, I don't want to dig that deep and tend to focus about what humanity can do in the 100, or 1000 years later). I love science fiction and reforming ideas, as long as it is logic and does not related to any superheroes and such (sorry but I think superheroes are... not my taste). I believe human in the future can make everything possible ^^.

17. I am not easily offended personally, really. Just easily to be hurted. I even goes as far as thinking, "If that person makes me hurted like that, then I would not want that to happen to other people. Because it's too cruel." But believe me, just offend my core value (patriotism, family) and that person will have to regret for life.

18. Not flexible, at all. People say I am too rigid. But I never have a schedule of my own. I can arrange my goals and life plan totally inside my head, but when my energy is gone and hasn't been recharged yet, I cannot do anything. I procrastinate a lot, dream/think a lot, and my house is quiet tidy but not that neat.

19. According to my ESFJ friend, "Hey, you shouldn't care too much about what others think about you. Just live simple, like me." But living simply is too hard, because I think a lot and [SUP] there are a lot of voice talking and debating and yelling and vibrating in my head [/SUP]. By the way, my ESFJ friend is sometimes very annoying because she welcomes everyone. I'm not. I want them to know that personal privacy is very important to some people and let me alone arrange thoughts and voices in my head before dragging me to any social conversation.

// I think I would say more . Sorry for such a long lines of... rambling. [SUP]Forgive me. I should have say about my interpretations of cognitive functions more than these. And silly grammar mistakes -v-[/SUP].

I would say I am an INFJ. But what do you think?

 

[Purple INFJ]

A few questions:

1) Do you tend to speak on a linear, focused manner, seeking to follow a subject up to completion? Or do you prefer to jump from one point to another, tending to emphasize a wider perspective?

2) Would you say that you can tend to focus single-mindedly on a specific goal (or set of goals)? Or do you tend to prefer to take your time considering multiple possibilities and assessing their rosks, before committing to any long-term goals?

3) How comfortable would you say you are dealing with people discussing sentimental things with you?

4) What are some things that close friends and family have said about you (positive or negative)?

5) Do you feel more comfortable adjusting to situations as they come, or having things predetermined before doing them? (Not at all times, but in general terms)

 

[Aliceyn]

A few questions:

1) Do you tend to speak on a linear, focused manner, seeking to follow a subject up to completion? Or do you prefer to jump from one point to another, tending to emphasize a wider perspective?

2) Would you say that you can tend to focus single-mindedly on a specific goal (or set of goals)? Or do you tend to prefer to take your time considering multiple possibilities and assessing their rosks, before committing to any long-term goals?

3) How comfortable would you say you are dealing with people discussing sentimental things with you?

4) What are some things that close friends and family have said about you (positive or negative)?

5) Do you feel more comfortable adjusting to situations as they come, or having things predetermined before doing them? (Not at all times, but in general terms)

If I'm missing the point of your question, please do say .

1) I would say both.

In study, I would prefer to speak to the teachers and my peers (and even require them), to speak in a short, simple and easily understandable way. Sometimes the professors say really long line of "make-sense" things, but they express these ideas in a very academic and overly-long lines with unnecessary details. And that's the thing that makes me feel anxious.

For example: "Point A to point B", that's all they just have to say. But instead of that, they make the long sentence like, "Point A, due to XYZ, and then... (I never precisely hear where is the point B at the end of their sentence).

Thus, whenever I do the presentation, or explain to someone about a specific thing, like a definition of a term, I would focus to the point and say as simplest as possible. I don't want to put too much details in explanation about things that people, at least at that time when they speak to me, are incapable to get it. So that not even the listener can completely understand, but if you put a 6 year-old child in front of me, he/she still can understand what I say.

However, if you put me on a discussion about life, politics, literature, art, and religion (which my passion adhere to), I would go on an extremely-long stream of logic, jumping from one subject to the other and seeing things with wider spectrum that musing me but making others jaw-dropping for five seconds, and then they said, they could never understand me and leave .

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2) Yes... but there are something else. I'm pretty bad at thinking about multiple possibility. Once I do something, I will to do my best to complete it.

Let say my goal is now to complete a final exam for subjects (because that are the things I'm doing now).

I usually prefer to study subjects one by one, but during the study there are a lot of distractions going on. I usually go for a walk with music, play on internet for 20 minutes (or more) each time when I just study for 1 hour. I'm usually stressed because of this extreme habit, until my mother suggests that I should constantly change my subject of study to keep on the interest.

I'm not 100% sure this question. As I said, I am a global learner. When I read a book I usually jump from one part to the other, and then back to the part that I have left (including science and literature books), that's how I can see a wider perspective, cover and connect everything like an outside observer. But when doing serious tasks like to complete the exam for a subject, I usually just focus on that subject only, until I've confident about my knowledge.

Yeah, I'm completely missing the point. But, well... *shrugged*

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3) It depends. I usually not good at discussing everyday sentimental things. Like, my mother cuddles and says she loves me and that I am the prettiest girl in the world, I usually want to leave and say anything else that leads to another dry topic -v-. Because in my culture, suppressing one's feelings is considered to be calm and collected, and normal people don't say sweet things everyday.

Speaking of discussing sentimental things. There are two types of people I see.

First, the hypocritical people. To be honest, I don't care how these people feel: what they say just makes me get angry.

For example, my roommates saw me too anti-social. Ironically enough, they are the ones who alienated me among my friends and treated me badly. Once, they called me (with other friends) to go out and discuss "issues about me", saying I was not friendly and lived in my own world too much. They said they just want a "sentimental talk" with me, because they can understand my feelings and etc... and then offer me a hand like a savior who would forgive me everything if I listen to them, in such a sweet and private manner.

Yeah, screw them all. I hate them.

Second, the real suffering people. These people, I will come over, willing to listen to them and comfort them without judging who they're used to be. I can't help when I see vulnerable people (especially elder people that need to be taken care of) suffering and need help emotionally.

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4) I don't have many close friends... -_-.

Usually my family will see positive things about me, although they don't completely know what I'm thinking, but they can understand me as a person. Others, very few people know me.

Positive things parents say about me: Independent, argumentative (both good things and bad things), honest (although brutally honest, but strangely people seem to find that kind of honesty interesting), intelligent, rebellious at time but a good child for the whole life, serious and cautious when doing big long-term things, never fail to reach my parents' expectation, "when doing something, will do it for good". Mostly my family are the ones who commented me like that.

Good things my friends/teachers/relatives commented: "You are too extreme and complicated." -v-... Not sure but will take these as my good comment. Just because I like it, not because they were having good intention.

Negative things my friends/teachers/relatives commented: Selfish, sarcastic, dry humor, unrealistic, impractical, too forceful, dictated, hateful, emotionally unbalanced a.k.a. up-and-down, saying weird things, unpunctual, disrespectful, arrogant, standoffish, lonely...

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5) It depends. I'm actually inflexible and not really good at adjusting to situations. But I'm too lazy to plan everything. So yeah, at the end I just screw everything up.

But in the term of something that I do take it seriously, I would say I predetermined everything, cautiously. For example, I want to be a novelist. But I cannot live without money, if I can't live then I can't write. Artists and novelists, at least in my country, are very low-paid, at least the majority of them. So I think I should study something else to have money, thus I study science and take years to travel and have experiences. All I want is to become a novelist, and I will have my own strategy to accomplish that.

But to everyday issues, I am a total loser... Well, at least I cook better than my ISFJ and ESFJ friends and my house is pretty clean (but not too tidy and neat).

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Sorry if I'm missing the point of your question ^^.

 

[Purple INFJ]

I sense the following as Ni/Se axis:

In study, I would prefer to speak to the teachers and my peers (and even require them), to speak in a short, simple and easily understandable way. Sometimes the professors say really long line of "make-sense" things, but they express these ideas in a very academic and overly-long lines with unnecessary details. And that's the thing that makes me feel anxious.

For example: "Point A to point B", that's all they just have to say. But instead of that, they make the long sentence like, "Point A, due to XYZ, and then... (I never precisely hear where is the point B at the end of their sentence).

However, if you put me on a discussion about life, politics, literature, art, and religion (which my passion adhere to), I would go on an extremely-long stream of logic, jumping from one subject to the other and seeing things with wider spectrum that musing me but making others jaw-dropping for five seconds, and then they said, they could never understand me and leave .

I'm pretty bad at thinking about multiple possibility. Once I do something, I will to do my best to complete it.

This strikes me as Fi:

Speaking of discussing sentimental things. There are two types of people I see.

First, the hypocritical people. To be honest, I don't care how these people feel: what they say just makes me get angry.

Second, the real suffering people. These people, I will come over, willing to listen to them and comfort them without judging who they're used to be. I can't help when I see vulnerable people (especially elder people that need to be taken care of) suffering and need help emotionally.

I interpret that you make a distinction between authenticity and lack thereof in emotional matters, which seems Fi-ish to me.

This strikes me as Inferior Se:

I'm actually inflexible and not really good at adjusting to situations.

I'm an Ni Dom and I can relate to the statement below:

But I'm too lazy to plan everything.

It took years for me to realize that I can be a good planner, it's just that I need to set specific objectives for myself, otherwise I'll tend to procrastinate a lot. I think it's reasonable to think this happens to many Ni Doms.

My guess is that you might be an INTJ. However, I don't feel confident enough to assert it as true.

Some more questions:

1) How comfortable would you say you are thinking on your feet (using quick logic to sort out a quotidian situation (like a particular home chore, for instance).

2) Would you say that you tend to dislike depending on other people to get things done, generally speaking?

3) How do you feel about things like mutual cooperation and nutual understanding? What meaning do those things have for you as a person?

 

[Purple INFJ]

This sounds like something an INTJ would say:

I am very private and independent. To be honest, I hate taking part of any teamwork. From high school, whenever taking Biology assignment I only register to do it alone. It's sort of, To be competent, you have to do things on your own.

You can ignore my 2nd question in the above post.

 

[Aliceyn]

Some more questions:

1) How comfortable would you say you are thinking on your feet (using quick logic to sort out a quotidian situation (like a particular home chore, for instance).

2) Would you say that you tend to dislike depending on other people to get things done, generally speaking?

3) How do you feel about things like mutual cooperation and nutual understanding? What meaning do those things have for you as a person?

Hope I would get to the point:

1) I'm not sure about this question. I would say yes (although not always).

I usually lazy and ignore my surroundings to concentrate on my thoughts. At such times, I usually don't care what happen (phone ringing, somebody visit my house and meet my parents but I don't care ---> so I just on the upstairs and keep on listen to music). But if I have to do housework myself, I would say I think of solutions and act on things very quickly and even more effective than my ISFJ friend.

When I have to take responsibility of things (doing chores myself, cooking, or taking experiment alone in science class), I usually act quickly. But if I'm not informed to be responsible of those things, I usually ignore ---> getting lazy, "hah! They didn't tell me what I have to do. Just let others do it and I will go on a 2-hour vacation."

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2) Yes. I think so. I always love to learn and do things I like on my own. Like I said, during when I do a Biology assignment, I always sign to do it alone. When I'm with people in a group, I cannot learn anything at all. My way of doing and understanding things is different from theirs, so I should step out and experience things on my own, and at the same time, stop being a burden to their job.

Also, when I grow up I even learn that not all people will say the truth. They will lie to you and these lies will influence your decision and study/work. You will make bad decision while others just get away from it, because it's my life and I'm the one who has to take responsibility. So I tend to be independent and take everything seriously, as well as avoiding anyone's advices that are contradict to my own experiences ---> Extreme and close-minded, I know. But magically my way always works at the end.

Taking their advices/depending on such people's knowledge is just... a waste of time.

(I know this question can be ignored. But as the time you posted it I've already written it.)


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3) If I have a mutual cooperation and understanding, it would be a dream . But yeah...

I don't usually value mutual cooperation in my life that much. The thing is, as I grow up and become more independent (I am the little daughter of my family, so the growing-up thing is kind of hard and new to me during my first days of college years), I start to think that if I can learn and be confident with my knowledge, I can do everything on my own and does not need much help .

But nevertheless, I still think that I'm small and need somebody to understand. I'm also very unmotivated and lack the love of life. I believe that I have intelligence to learn and do things, but nobody is truly by my side and willing to become my inspiration. I really need to have someone who is optimistic and encourages me and be the light of my life (I can be either their trees to grow or an ice to be melted ), motivate me, think of any crazy ideas and funny things that make me laugh.

I think I can be happy if I have at least some friends who appreciate me as a person, remind me about things I forgot sometimes, and always smile and say thank you when I do something for them, but know that I'm very private and need a lot of time to stay alone.

Up until now, only my family truly love me like that, thou. But deep down I still desire some sort of fluffy love.

Friends around me think I am a foul-mouthed weirdo, and they usually like the flattering which I cannot give (I hate flattering and saying things just to please people, I'm not actor in a sweet-talk play and they should not be ones, either). So I'm really feel lonely , although I get used to it.

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Thank you for taking time to interpret me, I'm really appreciated .

I always thought I'm an INFJ, but there is something that's not make sense. Although I like taking care of vulnerable people and elder people, sometimes giving hugs to little kids, but it's not for a long time. I only do such intimate thing for a short amount of time before I go back to my world.

I'm actually more related to a Fi. I keep my feelings very private, and when it comes to the topic I like, I usually talk passionately for hours. But stop and lose interest with the person I talk the day after.

But wasn't INTJ supposed to be good at politics, statistics and economics? I'm interested at law and politics, but economics and everything-related to money is kind of... strange. I never have experience of handling money (I'm the smallest child, so my parents/big brother are the ones taking care of me) and try economics, so I don't know. They seems to be kind of... narcissistic too, as far as I read their quotes.

 

[uumlau]

I think INFJ is probably pretty close to the mark.

If you'd like to be more sure, read through this forum and others and see how other people who type themselves as INFJs tend to think. Also, YouTube has a large selection of videos by people of various types explaining what it's like to be them. Once you have a large enough sample of the various types, your own particular type will become obvious to you.

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], I'm pretty convinced that I'm Ni (because I usually think a lot and usually those thoughts involving/projecting about future), but the Fi and Fe difference sometimes confused me.

INFJs are supposed to be calm, collected and listen to people well. They are Fe, they have manner and things else like that. I'm artistic but very brutally honest. I hate lying and giving flattering. I even feel happy when I can totally be myself and don't care about what others thinking bout me (I'm aware of what they feel about me, but I'm not stuck to their comments very much and usually fight back). Caring about what others thinking of me just makes me less productive, so instead of focusing about them, I tend to get over it, and say to myself, "It's my love and I have the right over it, not others. Now I have to study/work this out." I will forget about it and feel better. Feeling-wise I'm actually more related to INFP.

But INTJs... the first MBTI test I've got was INTJ in humanmetrics page, thou. I changed it to INFJ. I actually have all the points INTJ got, just minus the narcissism and percents of toughness and rudeness. I also have the righteousness that borrowed from many INFJ novelists and it might be because of my enneagram 1w9 (The Crusader).

(Lol, if I'm an INTJ, then I would be a standoffish compared to other INTJs. The first thing I want to say, if I'm an INTJ is, "I'm so sorry about my type's rudeness." But they can still change the world -_- ---> -v- ----> )

I first write this post when I still think I'm 4w5. But as I analyzing I realized that I'm actually 1w9. When I was stressed, I'm up and down and being anti-social just like an unhealthy 4, but when I'm happy, I can smile and laugh for a whole day like a 7.

About the emotional part and crying, I don't know if it's because I'm truly emotional, or because of my past. I was bullied during the whole four years of my secondary school, thus creating myself right now. I know it's painful to be bullied and verbally hurted. I experienced it so I don't want others to be in such situation like I did.

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I've read many discussion on this page. But I don't know why I still cannot determine my type .

 

[uumlau]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], I'm pretty convinced that I'm Ni (because I usually think a lot and usually those thoughts involving/projecting about future), but the Fi and Fe difference sometimes confused me.

INFJs are supposed to be calm, collected and listen to people well. They are Fe, they have manner and things else like that. I'm artistic but very brutally honest. I hate lying and giving flattering. I even feel happy when I can totally be myself and don't care about what others thinking bout me (I'm aware of what they feel about me, but I'm not stuck to their comments very much and usually fight back). Caring about what others thinking of me just makes me less productive, so instead of focusing about them, I tend to get over it, and say to myself, "It's my love and I have the right over it, not others. Now I have to study/work this out." I will forget about it and feel better. Feeling-wise I'm actually more related to INFP.

But INTJs... the first MBTI test I've got was INTJ in humanmetrics page, thou. I changed it to INFJ. I actually have all the points INTJ got, just minus the narcissism and percents of toughness and rudeness. I also have the righteousness that borrowed from many INFJ novelists and it might be because of my enneagram 1w9 (The Crusader).

I first write this post when I still think I'm 4w5. But as I analyzing I realized that I'm actually 1w9. When I was stressed, I'm up and down and being anti-social just like an unhealthy 4, but when I'm happy, I can smile and laugh for a whole day like a 7.

About the emotional part and crying, I don't know if it's because I'm truly emotional, or because of my past. I was bullied during the whole four years of my secondary school, thus creating myself right now. I know it's painful to be bullied and verbally hurted. I experienced it so I don't want others to be in pain like me.

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I've read many discussion on this page. But I don't know why I still cannot vision my type .

Typology is difficult to describe in words. If you clearly fit in one category or another, the words barely suffice. If you don't, the words don't clarify anything.

So let us assume that you are INxJ, that you just aren't sure whether the T or the F applies. One thing to understand right away is that you've figured out the important part: your dominant function is Ni. You tend to see things that other types don't see, and even when you explain what you see, other types often say they can't see it. You see the patterns that operate beneath the obvious world that most other people deal with, and your conclusions are often based on those inobvious patterns.

As for T vs F, I would clarify T as being "analytical" vs F being "holistic". If you are a T type, it is easy for you to "prove things": the facts are obvious, and you can just cite facts to others until it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that you are right. In part this is because T types are analytical, so it's easy to take an abstract concept and split it up into individual pieces, prove that each piece is true, and then therefore the pieces taken together are true.

F, being holistic, means that instead of taking pieces of an abstract pattern and proving each piece true, you tend to look at the patterns in a holistic way, where they cannot be split apart into smaller, simpler pieces that can be thought about individually. Technical things tend to be easily dealt with in an analytical way, so such activities tend to get associated with T types. Human things, human patterns, are not so easily analyzed. You can't just say that if a human acts this way, in this particular case, that the same human will necessarily act the same way in a slightly different case: a holistic approach is required for understanding humans. Hence, F types tend to be good at figuring out other humans, because their holistic approach is very good at seeing how humans behave in general, even as T types tend to be endlessly puzzled by other humans not "making sense" or "being illogical".

T vs F really has nothing to do with "thinking" vs "feeling" in the conventional sense. All T types feel, all F types think. The critical difference is HOW they feel, HOW they think. INTJs are plenty emotional, but they will tend to not be as aware of others' emotions (because they lack the holistic approach to understand emotions). INFJs are plenty intellectual, but they won't use logic/analysis so much as intuitively offer insights as to how people tend to behave.

Interestingly, in my experience, INFJs are either the biggest fans or the biggest detractors of typology. The fans see how typology simplifies talking about what makes people tick, and that while typology isn't all that predictive specifically, it's great for spotting general patterns of human behavior. The detractors appear to me to be dismissive of typology because they're so good at understanding people, typology feels like a child's crayon drawing, while their own understanding more resembles a hyper-realistic oil painting.

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], okay, I start to see what are you trying to tell me. You're trying to tell me about the big picture of the difference right? (Correct me if I'm wrong). And because I said, that I don't act like other INTJ, but theoretically I am interpreted as one. And your answer is, not all INTJs are necessarily the same and I should look at the way how my thought and my feeling work in general, rather than compare to other personality and see if I fit in their community or not, right? Because it is all depend on individuality here.

Okay, then let discuss about this issue in your way .

So let us assume that you are INxJ, that you just aren't sure whether the T or the F applies. One thing to understand right away is that you've figured out the important part: your dominant function is Ni. You tend to see things that other types don't see, and even when you explain what you see, other types often say they can't see it. You see the patterns that operate beneath the obvious world that most other people deal with, and your conclusions are often based on those inobvious patterns.

As for T vs F, I would clarify T as being "analytical" vs F being "holistic". If you are a T type, it is easy for you to "prove things": the facts are obvious, and you can just cite facts to others until it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that you are right. In part this is because T types are analytical, so it's easy to take an abstract concept and split it up into individual pieces, prove that each piece is true, and then therefore the pieces taken together are true.

F, being holistic, means that instead of taking pieces of an abstract pattern and proving each piece true, you tend to look at the patterns in a holistic way, where they cannot be split apart into smaller, simpler pieces that can be thought about individually. Technical things tend to be easily dealt with in an analytical way, so such activities tend to get associated with T types. Human things, human patterns, are not so easily analyzed.

To be honest, I am very analytical. I don't know much about the holistic things. It's true that human, as a whole, cannot be easily analyzed like a machine. And that's why I think human is fascinating, because there is so much things to learn, interpret and analyze about them. Human emotions are not simple that way. I know human have many potentials to be great or to be a disappointment, depending how they will choose their way to make decision in life. But again, I'm not an Ne. I cannot generate many stories about their future (ask an xNFP for more information).

For example, if I try to analyze people, I will ask for details about their early life, their parents, their relatives, what kind of jobs do their parents do, what kind of environment did they grow up, their friends... basically all of the impacts they had that lead to themselves as individuals right now. Along the course there are also the decisions they have made, what influences them to have such decisions, and yes - irrational feelings: jealousy, laziness, emotional unbalance, greed... all counted in the process. The books that they read, the movies they watched, the news they heard and their habits are all must be observed, because even a small thing can affect to human thinking. Puzzle them and see how they work, you get the basic picture.

And that's what I will answer if you ask me about what I think about the whole concept of psychology. I know I'm too young and this thought is still simple and undeveloped. But that's what I've got right now.

But there is something more that require not only information and data. I always believe that "The sum is more than its constituting parts." If you want to understand a person wholeheartedly you have to be non-critical, free of judgment and be something even more than just analyzing and puzzling the data. That's empathy. There is something else that makes you feel the people you are looking at more human and alive, that makes you say, "Oh well, it can't be helped. It's your life and above the analysis of psychological development, I did see something else even more than what I know: which is understanding. And I'm happy that you once lived."

I don't know if the "above empathy" is fit to the concept "holistic" of yours. But yeah, I do have fun when taking time to analyze and stalk to people's thoughts, puzzle their life to see the whole picture. Sometimes I feel, I like to look at the human just like Watson and Crick discover DNA. I look at them to understand the most essential thing that makes them special, then after awhile everything else just seems to be magically appeared, clearly.

Step 1: Take as much data as you can. Step 2: Analyze, Puzzle, Observe to see a big picture. Step 3: Understand, "It can't be helped." Step 4: You've got the essential part. Step 5: You've understand this person. Congratulations! Yay!

 

[Purple INFJ]

Apparently an example of a Dominant Ni-Inferior Se dynamic:

I usually lazy and ignore my surroundings to concentrate on my thoughts.

This seems like Te to me:

But if I have to do housework myself, I would say I think of solutions and act on things very quickly and even more effective than my ISFJ friend.

Te has to do with efficiency, with getting things done in our external world. I think it also has to do with finding quick solutions to certain situations.

I don't usually value mutual cooperation in my life that much.

Outside factors might play a role here, however, an INFJ (based on MBTI alone) would be all for mutual cooperation, as it's one of the key traits related to Fe.

Although I like taking care of vulnerable people and elder people, sometimes giving hugs to little kids, but it's not for a long time. I only do such intimate thing for a short amount of time before I go back to my world.

You can be an INTJ and still be interested in humanitarian work, it seems to me that INFJs tend to be highly stereotyped as humanitarians and INTJs as natural scientists, although an INFJ can be a natural scientist and an INTJ a humanitarian.

But wasn't INTJ supposed to be good at politics, statistics and economics?

This has more to do with personal interest and intelligence type than MBTI. While I do think many academics are INTJs, this doesn't mean that every INTJ is cut out for academic work. We are all individuals with varying interests, and MBTI is simply a helping tool in understanding personality.

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=28128]Purple INFJ[/MENTION], thanks for your insights. Although I cannot really see the clear distinction between Te and Ti. I have read something about this but apparently I used to think I am either INFJ or INFP, so I focus on the Fe versus Fi function more.

For example, if I was about to judge the quality of an education system. I would go there, experience the quality of it. How the ideas of education affect on the development of children in general. As I see everything was just screwed up and I begin to see what's going on, then what's wrong about it: people's using it and the ideas constructing this whole mess - where is it rooted from, mistakes followed by mistakes. I decided to go somewhere else and learn, find the real cause of it and constantly desire to change it by my own hands.

Then is that considered a Te using?

 

[Punderstorm]

I see you're stuck between INFJ and INTJ, how do you criticize people?
Which of the following is more like you?
a)You criticize the logic of the argument and exploit loopholes
b)You criticize the ethics/morals of the argument

 

[uumlau]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], okay, I start to see what are you trying to tell me. You're trying to tell me about the big picture of the difference right? (Correct me if I'm wrong). And because I said, that I don't act like other INTJ, but theoretically I am interpreted as one. And your answer is, not all INTJs are necessarily the same and I should look at the way how my thought and my feeling work in general, rather than compare to other personality and see if I fit in their community or not, right? Because it is all depend on individuality here.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying.

To be honest, I am very analytical.

INFJs are also "very analytical", but are you using the word in the sense that I am using it, where one perceives that the world is essentially made out of jigsaw puzzle pieces that only fit together in particular ways? When I have a difficult discussion with an INFJ type, the main thing that I can sense from talking with them is that they don't see the puzzle pieces that I do. They see the picture on the jigsaw puzzle and the things in the picture, totally ignoring that the picture spans several puzzle pieces. The analogy I'm making here is that the pictures on the puzzle are things that one can relate to, things that one can connect with in a more human way. To the INFJ, the human connections comprise the puzzle, not the technical pieces.

I don't know much about the holistic things. It's true that human, as a whole, cannot be easily analyzed like a machine. And that's why I think human is fascinating, because there is so much things to learn, interpret and analyze about them. Human emotions are not simple that way. I know human have many potentials to be great or to be a disappointment, depending how they will choose their way to make decision in life. But again, I'm not an Ne. I cannot generate many stories about their future (ask an xNFP for more information).

For example, if I try to analyze people, I will ask for details about their early life, their parents, their relatives, what kind of jobs do their parents do, what kind of environment did they grow up, their friends... basically all of the impacts they had that lead to themselves as individuals right now. Along the course there are also the decisions they have made, what influences them to have such decisions, and yes - irrational feelings: jealousy, laziness, emotional unbalance, greed... all counted in the process. The books that they read, the movies they watched, the news they heard and their habits are all must be observed, because even a small thing can affect to human thinking. Puzzle them and see how they work, you get the basic picture.

That's information gathering, not "analysis" as I'm talking about it. You're intuiting what their underlying personality and motivations are like, based on external evidence of what they seem to do. There isn't anything like, "They watched Kill Bill 30 times, therefore they're eventually going to go on a psychopathic rampage and take revenge on everyone who has wronged them."

And that's what I will answer if you ask me about what I think about the whole concept of psychology. I know I'm too young and this thought is still simple and undeveloped. But that's what I've got right now.

But there is something more that require not only information and data. I always believe that "The sum is more than its constituting parts." If you want to understand a person wholeheartedly you have to be non-critical, free of judgment and be something even more than just analyzing and puzzling the data. That's empathy. There is something else that makes you feel the people you are looking at more human and alive, that makes you say, "Oh well, it can't be helped. It's your life and above the analysis of psychological development, I did see something else even more than what I know: which is understanding. And I'm happy that you once lived."

I don't know if the "above empathy" is fit to the concept "holistic" of yours. But yeah, I do have fun when taking time to analyze and stalk to people's thoughts, puzzle their life to see the whole picture. Sometimes I feel, I like to look at the human just like Watson and Crick discover DNA. I look at them to understand the most essential thing that makes them special, then after awhile everything else just seems to be magically appeared, clearly.

Step 1: Take as much data as you can. Step 2: Analyze, Puzzle, Observe to see a big picture. Step 3: Understand, "It can't be helped." Step 4: You've got the essential part. Step 5: You've understand this person. Congratulations! Yay!

I would re-label "empathy" as "connection". The main thing that I see INFJs do to understand other people is to gradually try to build up a connection with them. Once they build up a strong enough connection, then they seem to understand that person. Without the connection, the INFJ remains wary.

In reverse, from the perspective of the non-INFJ, the best way to relate to an INFJ is to let them cautiously feel you out (emotionally) and just be honest. Seriously, it sometimes feels like I'm metaphorically holding out my hand for a cat to sniff it and decide whether it's OK with me. Assuming they determine that I don't "smell bad", they're usually delighted to find that I actually understand all the weird shit they can't explain to anyone else, at which point they tend to become life-long friends.

That you indicate that empathy is important, AND that you are still very young, then yeah, INFJ is much more likely than INTJ. INTJs kind of suck at empathy at a young age. Older INTJs (such as myself) tend to be a lot more mellow and accepting of human feelings and failings.

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION]. No, Storm, it's not simple like that. I actually asking both. and what kind of argument are you talking about ?

What does not help me here, is that I'm an 1w9. Of course I have to ask about the ethics/moral of every argument. I'm even strict to myself and whenever I'm plotting something against somebody, there's always an invisible voice talking behind my back, asking, "Don't touch it. It's against your moral! You have to be a good person or else, the punishment will lay on you!"

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], I think your insight is pretty convinced .

But I'm actually nearly 20 years old. So is that considered too young for you? As you see, I've grown up in an Asian background. In our culture, empathy, people crying, intimate relationships are actually pretty emphasized. And due to my experiences of being bullied for four years and many emotional depression, I learn and grow up as a person right now. Would it still sound that I have a natural empathy?

Also, I really lack of desire for intimacy. From young age, except my family, nobody can touch me. I will fight back and get out of them.


Or maybe I'm just an INFJ with a deficient Fe? God, this confuse me.

 

[Punderstorm]

I think your enneagram might cloud your type, E1's can appear like the opposite think/feel type.
You sorta sound like a Ni-Fi INTJ, have you looked at any function loops?

 

[uumlau]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], I think your insight is pretty convinced .

But I'm actually nearly 20 years old. So is that considered too young for you? As you see, I've grown up in an Asian background. In our culture, empathy, people crying, intimate relationships are actually pretty emphasized. And due to my experiences of being bullied for four years and many emotional depression, I learn and grow up as a person right now. Would it still sound that I have a natural empathy?

Also, I really lack of desire for intimacy. From young age, except my family, nobody can touch me. I will fight back and get out of them.


Or maybe I'm just an INFJ with a deficient Fe? God, this confuse me.

That's trauma.

Enneagram is fairly good at describing how you react and deal with trauma. MBTI doesn't really address trauma or neuroses, and is more about how people tend to reason about things in a more or less healthy/normal way.

 

[Aliceyn]

Okay that's it. [MENTION=28128]Purple INFJ[/MENTION], can you honestly tell me, that putting the logic aside, by your INFJ sensing, could you sense that in my words there is at least some Fe? ))))

Because truthfully, although I'm convinced that I'm INFJ, I still don't know why I use Fi more than Fe.

 

[Aliceyn]

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION]. Okay, I actually feel like I'm using Fi more. I looked at the function, of course. It takes me awhile to make sure that I'm an Dominant Ni. If you know, there is a video from youtube/famouscelebrity, that comparing INFJ and INFP (Carey Mulligan and Andrew Garfield), mostly about their using of Fe and Fi, respectively. And I'm more related to Andrew. Andrew always argues/talks passionately about the subject he cares about. I do, too. It's just that I live in a place where mostly people are S type and cannot pick a clue of what I'm saying about. So I develop a more... diplomatic way. I stop and begin to watch people's expression more. Nevertheless words come from my mouth whenever there is an argument I'm interested of.