It's probably in and of itself telling that I value that connection.
Bit of a manic few days, sorry it's taken me a while both to process what you said and also to find time to get back here to reply to you. I hadn't forgotten.
Yes, I'm learning to value connection as well. Time was I'd run a mile the moment I sensed any connection at all.
Hm. Not really seeing it. hah
Oh well. If you don't think you write concisely and with pinpoint accuracy, maybe you need to count how many words you just used to convey puzzlement, explanation for your puzzlement and a sarky joke, just now. Feelings conveyed via words. Duh.
But seriously, I am a fan of using that method
I figure -- if you stare at a short can of soup from either the top or the side, but not both, you're going to insist that you're looking at either a sphere or a cube. The rectanglists and the sphereists think that the other camp is full of total dipshits; though in reality, everyone involved is dealing with a 2D projection of a 3D thing. So it's best to move around once in a while if you're going to analyze or explain something.
You're not the first person to remark on this. CS Lewis uses it in his Essay in a Toolshed, and it's the opening chapter of Seven habits of Highly Effective People, to list just a couple. Yep. Ni shifts viewpoint to get a fresh look. Exactly like mentally rotating a concept. Good stuff.
It's true. I don't feel any sort of strong internal kernel, and I don't feel bothered by it. My view is that many things are much more situational and relative than we think, including identity; and that identity is a useful construct and nothing more, etc etc. -- so, a standpoint with an Fe flavor.
I do think context and situation are important, but also, that's ME in that situation or context, and I value my integrity, in *any* context. See the difference?
That said, I do totally subscribe to the idea that the ego grabs onto a personality trait or behaviour and desires validation through it, or however the Enneagram puts that idea. Maitri explains the idea well in her enneagram book.
Or.. well, "not-Fi, and so Fe by elimination" flavor.
I'm not sure, you know. I think you're not as hollow as you choose to make out, so hence some handle on Fi, but maybe weakly, hence ENTJ...and maybe you've had a job with the kind of training which enhances Fe types of behaviours, which you've just sponged up and incorporated because they are useful, and easier than sitting with your internal processors to figure out what you actually feel, value and are, so to speak. That's my take on this...to be honest I'm more feeling that out along the connection route than analysing it by Te. More like 'Ni-Fi assures me that...' than anything more rational.
Oh, totally. If you want someone to perform for you, you'd damn well better accommodate them; otherwise, you can't expect a display in the first place, and even if you do get one it probably wouldn't be honest.
Really, if you actually want ideas to be heard in general, you need to create a space where they can be laid out. If you're in a meeting with a bunch of obnoxious loudmouths and some quiet but smart folks, you'd damn well make sure those quiet folks have some bandwidth. It might take breaking up a conversation and then asking those quiet folks pointed questions, also ensuring everyone else shuts the hell up for a few seconds. If you don't do that, you're (a) unwittingly measuring the value of ideas by how (or whether) they're conveyed, (b) throwing bias into the whole thing, and (c) doing those quiet but smart folks a disservice as actual human beings.
Understanding people takes an actual understanding of people. When I say "screw the emotional environment," I also mean "screw trying to force people out of their domain (e.g. a shell) and into yours."
Well, on the face of it that all sounds very Fe, but my well nuanced nose isn't buying it. Dunno why. But there's something there saying to me that you're lonely...and that's quite a loud nuance across what you wrote. Maybe all your learned ways of getting people to like you aren't what you actually need...again, that would fit with Fi in fourth place and Te rushing around in the top spot doing everything for everyone else to make them happy. Do you listen much to *yourself*?
Two things:
To rephrase: rather, Fi would be more likely than Fe to have the interpersonal relationship (even if just as a concept) flavoring their thoughts and decisions.
(Though, right there we were talking about Socionics's take on Fi, which is much more focused on the interpersonal than MBTI's.)
I do have plenty of struggle with identity, the self, my own potential, my role, etc. (hi 3w4), for sure. But that a completely confident mapping of psyche to type assumes an immalleable object and a firm caliper -- neither of which we have.
Oh yeah, look, and I didn't read ahead. Sounds more 4w3 to me, but whatever. I really like the calliper and object mapping. Very much how I'd describe it. But the way I liken it, is that in person to person interaction, I can measure what went out from me and what I received from you along the connection wires, in whatever form, and assuming that you received and gave out the corresponding items (I refer you to those electron-photon interactions which conserve energy) I can get a fleeting momentary measurement on you by comparison with myself. Downside for this introvert is that I can't get that without giving you the corresponding information about myself...and that's the beauty of conversation, isn't it?
That doesn't mean that the whole exercise is worthless, but it's also not something to get myself worked up about. "Intuition + Ti/Fe axis" has enough explanatory power; the rest is just gravy.
As long as it fits you close enough to be of some use. Seems like you fight against it and I'm curious as to why.
I'm also fairly happy about the idea that it's possible for folk to be able to access types similar to their own base type, for short times or specific purposes, say...
Totally. I just find it pretty goddamned hilarious that many of the quotes picked to demonstrate ENTP-ness are about debate and being right and digging up errors and making someone else look like a bitch. That is definitely an ENTP thing that, regardless of type, makes me go
(to borrow a word or two from [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]).
I like ENTPs but they feel differently from how you are.
"To hold a pen is to be at war" indeed.
Yeah, let's look to find out how the milk got into the coconut.
