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Am I a really bad ISFJ? Or some other type entirely?

Hithere

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So, after a couple weeks of intense research and self-discovery (and lots of help on my last thread :hi:), I've come to the conclusion that ISFJ is a VERY likely possibility for my personality type. As I said in my last thread, I had previously typed myself as an INFP, but after researching ISFJ, it seems to fit better - to an extent. I definitely have Ne/Si, and I identify with both Fe and Fi, but Fe more. Also, I really see Ti in me, but I can also see how I could have inferior Te. (Though my anxiety skews my perception of everything - if I have Fi and aux Ne, I'll never be able to tell because I'm so anxiety ridden.)

BUT...something feels off and I'm afraid it comes down to what ISFJs are typically like. I'm literally NOTHING like the "typical ISFJ". I know I shouldn't place much value in this, but even on these kinds of forums, ISFJs are always described as something that's NOT me in any sense.

I'm SO disorganized and messy, both in physical environments and thoughts. I think in a VERY non-linear pattern - whenever I speak, my thoughts are crazy, all over the place. No one can understand what I'm saying because I can't think from point A to point B. I always get distracted by something else and stray from the topic at hand. Most people say ISFJs are more...structured than that. Organized, at least to some extent. Unlike me, who lives in filth and disarray (and not just mildly disorganized - horribly so) and likes it. It just doesn't match up. I'm also the laziest, most unproductive, biggest procrastinator I know. Why am I so far off the organized stereotype of an ISFJ?? Again, I know it's just a stereotype, but it must mean something. Do I just have horribly abusive inferior Ne??

Also...I have absolutely NO DESIRE to help or care for other people. I do care about other people and I help people with their issues (but more because I'm interested in people in general - I'm fascinated by the human mind and social interactions and I love studying it and breaking it down), but I care about myself over others. I know Fe-users can be selfish also, but it's more than that. I literally don't care about being a "caretaker" or loyal friend. I actually have flimsy loyalties and I'm literally the worst caregiver of all time. I just don't care enough about making other people happy to focus my attention on them. I'm too self-absorbed, and I find it awkward and out of my nature to "care" for other people - I got my own need to attend to. Is this unusual for an ISFJ? I've heard that the bigger indicator for an ISFJ is someone who cares deeply about other people and will do anything to help and care for them - that's not me. Actually, when I help people, it's purely out of personal, selfish, and anxious reasons - I people-please because I'm scared what they'll think of me (an Fe trait), so I do things to make them happy not out of the good of my heart or because I actually care or want to, but because I'm SCARED. I'm terrified they'll hate me forever otherwise, so I force myself to do things I don't want to do.

For example, I'll cover someone's shift at work because I think of all the possibilities of what will happen if I don't. I don't necessarily want to (why the hell would I want to give up my own time for someone else??), but I'll consider doing it to appease the guilt in my chest.

I identify with Fe in that I'm very outwardly expressive. I do tend to repress my "deepest, darkest" emotions, but I'm not one to hold back from complaining about things that make me mad or to express how I feel. I love connecting with others and feeling a sense of community with them.

I'm also not one for details. I'll remember things I want to remember, and I have a vivid memory of past events that are at least somewhat sentimental to me, but I SUCK at remembering things. And I really mean this - I can't remember if some of my friends have glasses or not. I'm the person who wouldn't notice if the teacher lost a finger or something until after everyone else. I'm so forgetful (when my anxiety hasn't kicked in) and I never pay attention to anything. I'm the person who makes the same mistakes over and over again because I just don't learn from the past - I remember it and recall what I did wrong and how I can fix it, but no way in hell will I improve on that).

The only way I identify with Si is through my ability to retain LOTS of information if I'm invested enough - so I know a lot about fandoms I love and facts about history because it's my favorite subject. I'm also INCREDIBLY nostalgic and sentimental - I yearn for the past and for the way my things used to be. I constantly wish I could be more like I was the year before (because I always perceive myself as being happier and more successful the year before than currently, even though this is so inaccurate). I struggle with letting go and I HATE change. It makes me anxious, it's like a jolt to my system. It's not like I'm against new experiences - I LOVE trying new things, experiencing new cultures and foods and I love traveling to places I haven't been before. I'm open to ideas and theories I haven't considered before. I guess, it's just when it comes to my own personal life, I struggle with change. If it's a drastic change to my life (or new people, my introversion especially makes it hard for me to open up to groups of new people), then I'm terrified.

I have signs of both inferior Ne and Te. Ne because my intuition comes into play A LOT when I'm nervous - I imagine all the worst-case scenarios and all the bad things that could happen. But again, I have anxiety, so I have trouble differentiating between that and my type. Also, if I try to remember a time before anxiety (which is near impossible), I saw all possibilities, good and bad. I loved taking risks and being myself - I wanted to try everything...but I was younger then and I couldn't imagine myself doing those things now.

Te is also obvious if it's low - my lack of organization, my lack of motivation and drive (mental illness or personality type??? idk). My ability to lash out at people unexpectedly when they drive me over the edge or when they are unproductive (even though I am also).

I also see Ti in myself in that I try to organize EVERYTHING into logical categories and try to make sense of the world through a logical lens. I love to hyperanalyze things and put them into categories based on my perception of the way things should be - maybe that's why I like Myers Briggs so much, it's another categorization. I can be very logical when I look at things objectively - I'm not logical with my own emotions, I can never be logical when it comes to myself. But I'm great at analyzing a situation (whether it be an issue a friend is having or whatever) and breaking it down, finding the right, logical solution to the problem.

And Fe vs. Fi - don't even get me started. I can't decipher if my perceived Fe is actually Fi distorted by anxiety and crippling low self-esteem or if it's actually Fe. Can Fi-users even develop self-esteem issues regarding fear of rejection and being judged by others?Can their anxiety disorders have to do with other people's judgments on them? Or is that purely an Fe thing? And I don't even know where my morals come from - I don't even think I have strong morals. I just believe in things, and some things I believe I more strongly than others, and I don't like when people violate that. But I'm also a pushover and a doormat and naive - I let people push me around because I'm too worried about what they would think about me if I said "no". (Again, anxiety or inferior Ne or Fe or Fi??)

It just makes me sad because if I'm an ISFJ, I'm a horrible ISFJ. I have none of the good qualities of an ISFJ, just a bunch of bad non-ISFJ ones. My mom's an ISFJ and she's so particular with details, notices everything, is organized and neat, has this need to put other people before her and I just...don't. I feel like some shit ISFJ who got lost along the way, or maybe I'm not an ISFJ at all??? All I know (or at least I think I know) is that I'm IxFx. And I'm definitely not Ni-Se, that's practically fact. But I don't know, I can't identify with any type entirely, it feels like and idk if it's because I'm too anxiety-ridden to figure myself out right now.
 

HongDou

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[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION]
 

Yama

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Hello, I am an "atypical" ISFJ. I identify with literally 0% of ISFJ descriptions and stereotypes, so don't let that bog you down too much while trying to determine your type!

I myself am organized, but I have OCPD so that's a huge part (if not all) of it. I would genreally try to avoid the messy/organized stereotypes for the J/P dichotomy. My ISTJ friends are super messy (not ISFJ, but close enough). Also, I can be quite the procrastinator--but I always have things done by the due date. Either way, I wouldn't worry about organization stereotypes.

I am sooo fucking with you on your fourth paragraph. I don't relate to the nurturer/caretaker stereotypes AT ALL, I literally just don't care about people I'm not friends with. I mean I care about things like social inequality and poverty, but like I just don't care at all about Random Person I Sit Next To In School and how their day is going I just don't it's just so boring and I'd rather people just leave me alone forever and not bother or talk to me. I'm super self-focused. I absolutely hate when people ask me to do things or expect something from me. Like my gut reaction whenever someone is like "Hey can you pick me up from--" is "oh god no I want to just stay at home and do nothing no thanks." Though depending on if I like the person or not I'll listen and see if I'd be willing to do it. I'm not selfless. The "nice" things I do are for my own benefit--usually because I just want the person to go away, or so that they don't see me as an asshole. ISFJ stereotypes are the absolute worst and I'm glad you're asking about stuff here instead of just saying "nope can't be one cuz I don't relate to the crappy descriptions." Kudos to you.

Yeah I used to always agree to work on days off or something, not because I wanted to or gave a shit about the company, but because I was scared of the repercussions, the managers hating me, etc.

And yeah Si's more than memory--if someone covered my eyes right now and asked me what color shirt I am wearing today, I'd be unable to answer, like I literally don't remember. But if you ask me something about The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I can answer that hell yeah. I only remember details about things I personally care about. Si's also not about being conservative/traditional, but rather, having a preference for what you know (I like to drive to school the exact same way every day and will never take another route unless you can prove to me that it's faster).

I once brought a bowl of cereal to my desk and spilled it all over the keyboard. This was many years ago. I got another bowl. Did the same thing. Got a third bowl. Same thing. It took me three freakin' bowls of cereal to learn that I was too inept to eat cereal at my computer desk hahaha. Don't worry about how fast you learn things. :p

I don't notice when people cut their hair unless it's a super drastic change... I literally am super oblivious to my environment. I'll be sitting there thinking, wrapped up in my imagination, and not notice at all what the people around me are doing.

Your description of how you experience Ne, I can relate to--all the anxiety sounds more like tert or inf Ne (anxiety-inducing) rather than what I assume an Ne dom/aux must experience.

Fe vs Fi is one of the most misunderstood things in MBTI I think. Fi gets things like "personal values" while Fe is "mindless society-following drone"... bad stereotypes, I would avoid them. Also don't get hung up on ISFJ being called nurturers and crap, I'm certainly not.

I would say there's a possibility that you're ISFJ, but I can't confirm that because I suck at typing. However, if you were to settle on ISFJ, you wouldn't be a "bad ISFJ" by any means--rather, you'd be a regular, everyday example of the ISFJ, and not the crappy stereotyped description example like those pages written on the internet that totally misunderstand ISFJs completely.

Thanks for tagging me [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION], I was falling asleep from boredom and this has woken me up
 

Yama

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Addition: There's certainly some ISFJs out there who probably fit what I call the "crappy ISFJ descriptions" to a T. But what I'm trying to get at is that these descriptions are generally too biased, unfavorable, and make the ISFJ sound unlikable (oh my god and ESFJs... they have it the absolute worst). Statistically speaking, isn't ISFJ the most common type? I have a feeling there are lots of ISFJs who mistype as INFJ, INFP, and maybe ISFP because of bad descriptions of Fe and/or Si. I feel like most ISFJ descriptions are also written by types who are not ISFJs (maybe NTs?) and thus have a fairly poor personal understanding of what being an ISFJ is like.

I want more people to call out the bullshit of their type profiles so that I can know what's true and what's not :D

More addition because I can't be stopped: I feel like the ISFJ profiles written and read today are perhaps better suited to the ISFJs of 50 years ago... each generation has its different values, and I think especially in today's society, there won't be many ISFJs who fit that "1950s housewife" ISFJ stereotype and all of its associated assumptions.
 

Hawthorne

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With the way most sensors description are, I'm not at all surprised by your not relating to them much. Both [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18445]thoughtlost[/MENTION] have had a lot to say on the matter of misleading SFJ descriptions (someone will link to that thread eventually). Most active members of this forum seem to recognize their limitations as well.

But to tackle the topic directly, if you believe you are ISFJ (which you seem to from your self description) and want to engage in certain typology communities, you will need to mentally divorce the online descriptions and stereotypes from the nature of the type itself. For your own sanity, really.
 

Hithere

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[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] and [MENTION=23915]Sinclair[/MENTION] Thank you both very, very much. This was INCREDIBLY helpful for me to hear; I guess I just needed to hear that I'm not crazy for behaving the way that I do.
[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] Thanks a lot for the links. I'd also like to mention that I completely agree with you about the shitty descriptions of ISFJs and how insanely superficial they are. To me, it's so incredibly sad that the SJ types in particular have been reduced to such shallow and confined stereotypes because (I suspect) the intuitive types who wrote them couldn't (or wouldn't) understand our wide range of traits and abilities. I also agree that there's probably TONS of mistyped ISFJs (along with ESFJs and probably xSTJ also) - I know plenty of people in my own personal life who are. I think a lot of ISFJ especially must see themselves as "different" or "deep" (whatever the hell that means, it's such a stupid word) and assume there INFP. And then it's hard to come to terms with the fact that you may be an SJ type because they're seen as "boring" or "shallow" or "common". It's so irritating - actually, I suspect that if ISFJs are so common, then we actually must be so much more diverse than other types because of the large pool of people amongst us (and therefore making it even more ridiculous that we have such limiting, confined stereotypes :dry:).

tl;dr I'm completely, 100% with you. I am an ISFJ who is NOT organized, who is NOT super friendly, who is NOT boring or superficial or unintelligent or whatever else stupid stereotypes we're assigned. I am my own individual with the ability to be just as intelligent and successful as any other type. And I want every maddeningly irrational stereotype of the ISFJ to disappear, thank you very much. :)
 

Yama

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And I want every maddeningly irrational stereotype of the ISFJ to disappear, thank you very much. :)

Join the ISFJ Crusaders with me and [MENTION=18445]thoughtlost[/MENTION] with our half-member [MENTION=24479]themightyfetus[/MENTION] (who hasn't settled on a type yet--will possibly graduate into a full member one day? :wink:)
 

Hithere

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[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] Yes please, I would love to join!
 

fetus

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Hello, [MENTION=27107]Hithere[/MENTION]. I'm glad you're considering this lovely type. Breaking through the stereotypes can actually be quite fun.

First, I wouldn't factor organization into any of this. The whole "J is organized, P is procrastinating" idea is shallow and pretty archaic. Personally, I am a complete mess. I live in a pigsty, lose everything I touch, and applaud myself if I turn an assignment in at all - if. My whole life has been in disarray basically since I entered the school system.

And I agree with the others - don't even think about the "homebody" thing. I can't cook or clean for shit (I've no joke considered going on Worst Cooks of America). It's also important to remember that nobody will ever fit into a four letter category when there are literally 7 billion people in the world. There aren't 16 people. There are 7 billion.
Also, you may want to think about Enneagram in this (unless that would confuse you more). I'm more stereotypical in ISFJ-ness because I'm gentle, sensitive, and generally caring, but remember that I'm a 2. :) [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] is a 9, which means that he'll be more passive, stoic, and aloof. I have an ISFJ friend who is either 6 or 1, and she is fierce. There are many different kinds of us out there.

Here's something I spontaneously came up with in the other thread. Read this and see if it helps...

 

thoughtlost

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[MENTION=27107]Hithere[/MENTION]

You would NOT be a bad ISFJ by any stretch of the imagination. From my perspective, you're REALLY CLOSE to being an ISFJ.
I am super disorganized, super forgetful, physically challenged, I procrastinate like it's my job to do so, ...and I do help ...but more for the reasons why YOU do what you do ...fear and socially based anxiety. So even on that front, we're the same.

I think that you already understand yourself really well. Your anxiety is not getting in the way of that. However, you may be mistyping because all of the misinformation out there that says that ISFJs just want to stay at home and organize chairs all day long or something. idk.

...This is 2016. No one is doing that, no matter how "SJ" you are.

Well, unless you're 80 years old ...then you might be doing that. I can't have you breaking a hip... can't have you bumping into chairs.
 

lily36912

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I didn't read the whole thing but I can list some quick descriptions of each diff type:

ISFP (You're easy to talk to but hard to get to know, have passion for food, music, or art; maybe all, can be aloof, daydream a lot)
INFJ (You're a very complex person with short temper and mood swings but still care and treat kindly to everyone, also a perfectionist, "ice queen")
ISTP (Very laid-back, like to socialize with people, are quiet observers, quick to find solutions to problem, love new experiences, fearless)

Other types I don't think you're one. Just these above hopefully>
 
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