Am I an ISTP or INTJ?

[Snaaake!]

This is my first post! The reason for it is that I want to clarify whether I'm an ISTP or INTJ.Sorry for any English mistakes, it's not my native language:

I've been introduced to MBTI by a friend 2 years ago and have sporadically read about it since, but I can't tell what my cognitive functions are even though I gave a lot of thought to this recently. The only functions I am sure of are Se and Ni, but I don't know in which order, and I'm also sure I'm a thinker and an introvert. The reason I'm so unsure is that I'm either an ISTP with really strong Ni (possibly in a Ti-Ni loop), or an INTJ with strong Se. I'm not sure whether I use Ti or Te. Also not aware enought of my feelings to tell if I use Fi or Fe. I'm often told I should open up, not only because I'm quiet, but also because I don't demonstrate my feelings that well. I rarely demonstrate emotions, only to those very close to me, and I'm very slow to anger, but when I let it out it's in an explosive manner.

I can be very lazy, but I'm not sure if it's because I have no greater objective at the moment. In school, I just studied the day before tests because I didn't need to study much to get good grades, the same goes for homework and projects (I always did them, even if I didn't really want to). The aproaching deadline is what makes me do things, and at the last minute I organize myself as to study in the most effective way possible and cover everything up. Sometimes I didn't even study because some things were just common sense/simple to me. This is one of the reasons I question whether I'm a sensor or not because some intuitives say sensors often don't "get things", but I always do.

Sometimes I can be a risk taker, but I only take calculated risks, because I "just know" if I can pull it of or not. I have been called "a nerd who knows how to play sports" even though I didn't pratice that much, it's just natural to me.I value skillfull peformance and competence, so I can be somewhat competitive.

I think a lot about my future, and I was really disappointed after I discovered Mechanical Engineering is not as practical as I thought it would be.I often think what it would be like to be a Special Forces operative and wonder if I'm suited for such a job.

I can't identify myself with either type's stereotype, the mastermind who wants to conquer the world or the shotgun wielding badass ISTP, even though I would love to have a shotgun (my country's gun laws make it difficult). So, what do you people think?

 

[Hawthorne]

Te Fi vs Ti Fe.

The watered down difference is how you judge what's logical and where your system of ethics comes from.

Logic: A rational process that with rules that make sense to yiu (Ti) vs a rational process that is objective and measurable outside of you (Te).

Ethics: A system of values derived from your personal sense of what is ideal (Fi) vs a system of values derived from your relationships with and their impact on other people (Fe)

There are different ways to work this out. One:

If you are ISTP, Ti will resonate strongly. Fe will be a blind spot, stressor, or significant energy drain. Chances are, you will devalue it (Fe).

If you are INTJ, Te will resonate slightly more than Ti and you will probably be sensitive to, but not feel fully capable of managing Fi. You are more likely to value or at least recognize a mix of good and bad traits of it in your life.

 

[Snaaake!]

Thanks for the answer, Sinclair. I had never discussed my type with anyone, and as I reread my post a few times after writing I started to realize I'm more ISTP than INTJ. It's funny since I had been thinking about it for the last few months, but simply writing this post gave me an idea of what my type really is. As for your answer, the way you worded how each of the functions works really helped me to figure things out. My thinking process is very subjective and I can be somewhat concerned about how my actions impact on other people (I try to be polite to others whenever I can, but it's really draining).

 

[Jaguar]

Honestly, if you don't know you're Ni first with lightning speed, forget it.

 

[rmrf]

Probably the biggest point of difference is how you go about your interactions with the external world. ISTPs are probably (at least externally) among the least 'intense' of the 16 types, whist INTJs are towards the other end. The stereotypical bloke, the pragmatic type that enjoys simple pleasures like tinkering with their car would be an ISTP. INTJs see tasks as 'mission', with a tendency to want to think all the contingencies through, dot all the 'I's, cross all the 'T's, and strive to be as 'effective' (at least in terms of their own idea) as possible. ISTPs instead just want to get the job done. INTJs are usually less easy going and have a sense of hostility when they feel like something isn't done 'right'. An intense idealisation towards competency. INTJs are usually quite prone to fast snappish sort of anger (like as kids, they'll be the type to say "that's fucking retarded") while ISTPs when they get angry, it's all or nothing.

ISTPs are usually far more indifferent, as long as the incompetency doesn't affect them, they don't care.

This character is quite a good caricature of maximum ISTP. Not saying that it's what most ISTPs are like, but more that you can see the ISTP in him.
(Warning 'Australian' language)

 

[Snaaake!]

Yeah, I'm really convinced that I'm an ISTP now, I'm too laid back to be INTJ. I guess most of my insights come from my experiences and observations (Se), especially when it's related to other people, I can read others very well.When I think about my future I'm usually just wondering if I'll be doing something I like rather than focusing on a bigger goal as INTJs would. I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and I really worry whether it will be practical or not, the first three years are mostly theoric and can be really boring. As for "intensity", I perceive myself as really easygoing, but a lot of people have mentioned they were afraid of talking to me for the first time. Is this common among ISTPs?

 

[rmrf]

With ISTPs (and INTPs) you're actually temprament is easy going and laid back but people don't always see that in you. ISTPs and INTPs aren't very natural at outwardaly expressing their emotions and come acorss as quite rigid, serious, and cold.

People can get the impression that it's because IxTPs are that way because they don't like people or lack emotions, when really it's because socially there's a sense of having to manually do each action, things like smiling etc, rather than a warm flow. My type (INTP) is in the same family as ISTP (Ti primary) and I can relate to "being easy going and chill but people thinking you're scary".

About half of my close friends are ISTPs so it's a type I'm quite familiar with, and you seem like ISTP to me.

Welcome to the Introverted Thinking club : )

 

[Snaaake!]

Thanks CognitiveLiberty! I guess I really am ISTP then. I agree 100% with manually displaying emotions. I have a friend who kind of noticed this and said I look weird showing emotion sometimes because it doesn't look natural. Also, it's funny when people ask me questions like "how are you feeling right now?" and I simply answer: "Normal, I guess" LOL, I'm only aware of my feelings when they are too overwhelming to go unnoticed. I just realized I said "sorry for any English MYSTAKES" in the first post... I hope my English is not that bad, I made a mistake while apologizing for any of them...

 

[rmrf]

"I have a friend who kind of noticed this and said I look weird showing emotion sometimes because it doesn't look natural"

That happened with me a lot when I was a teenager. I'm almost 20 now and it's gotten better but still an issue. A similar thing I've had happen with my mum a few times where she'd be convinced I'm looking really upset/anxious or whatever and then keep asking me what's the matter, when I'm feeling normal. it's not been in tune with my expression.

As a Ti type, I believe I do have quite a lot of internal emotion but its 'non emotional'. What I'm feeling is what I'm thinking. My feelings manifest as internal thinking. It's only when they are very intense that they come across as raw feeling.

You're definitely an IxTP type, and its quite possible you are an INTP.

"Sometimes I didn't even study because some things were just common sense/simple to me"

That is very INTP-ish due to the Ne function. Rather than revising by just remembering how to answer the questions, repeating over the concepts, etc, you just make sure you reach a point where it 'clicks'. Once you get it, you don't really need to explicitly remember information, instead it's more like a form of learning where you are able to just make up the information yourself on the spot. Does this sound like you? If so, then it points towards INTP.

Other things to consider, when observing something, are you always sort of mapping out the possibilities and different ways something can turn out. Like when observing the present, you're somewhat subconsciously considering what in the past lead up to the event, and what ways it can turn out in the future. A good example of this is if you're watching a movie, do you feel your focus on the sounds and sights of a scene are somewhat distracted. That you are busy considering how the events in the scene relate to the plot line, why this thing is happening, what's going to happen next.

What I've described is the way INTPs take in information of the outside world - Extroverted intuition.

Also about the English, it wasn't bad at all. Having known quite a few ISTPs and INTPs well, I can say I'd find it much more likely for an INTP to apologise in that way. Because INTPs value learning the rules of systems so much, they have a tendency to think they are bad at something when they are actually quite good at it. This is because they are aware of what they don't know. There is always things they don't fully understand, always more room for learning.

Your English is pretty good, everything in the original post, made sense and it didn't come across as non-native. People across all languages make the occasional spelling mistake.

Funnily enough, I've noticed on this forum, posts from people who apologise for their 'lack of English' tend to have among the more clear, coherent, and tidy of posts. i guess it's because been a second language, they are much more formal about it, and conscious about been correct. This was especially the case here, because the text itself was very good and showed a clear understanding of the language. But you felt as though it was very poor due to bad spelling because it is 'not correct english', the small details are not following the rules correctly. However the big picture, the way you phrased words together was quite good and very clear, and felt like it was written quite naturally.

An ISTP would be less inclined to apologise for the spelling, as the way they would see it, as long as they can write fairly easily, their English is good, even if it has the odd mistake. INTP would be much more precise and have an attitude of "all mistakes" are bad.

So in summary, I think you're an INTP (whose good at their second language)

 

[Snaaake!]

"As a Ti type, I believe I do have quite a lot of internal emotion but its 'non emotional'. What I'm feeling is what I'm thinking. My feelings manifest as internal thinking. It's only when they are very intense that they come across as raw feeling."

I can definitely relate to that. And now that you mentioned it, I think this thread should have been named "Am I an ISTP or INTP"?

You raised very good points and made me reconsider my type once again, since I really identified myself with your INTP description. It might be the reason I have never fully identified myself as either ISTP or INTJ. The funny thing is that the functions I mentioned I was sure of are possibly wrong, especially because I related a lot to the Ne description you made.

I can get distracted so easily that it made me question whether or not I could be ISTP. Maybe the reason I'm reasonably good at sports are good coordination and focus, and not necessarily Se as I thought. I'm about the same age as you, I turned 19 this month, so let me ask you: do you drive? If the answer is yes, how do you feel about it? I was very tense at the beggining, but now that I'm more used to it I do it almost automatically, just to wonder if I reduced the speed by the traffic radar because I was too distracted at the moment.

I think I'm convinced I'm INTP now. I remember reading somewhere that INTPs are often unsure about their type for a long time, so it makes sense. Also, I'm glad you think my English is good, thanks!

 

[rmrf]

I'm not into sports at all, so not talking from experience, I would guess when you play sports, a lot of it would be using the functions Ne/Si, rather than Se.

do you drive? If the answer is yes, how do you feel about it? I was very tense at the beggining, but now that I'm more used to it I do it almost automatically, just to wonder if I reduced the speed by the traffic radar because I was too distracted at the moment.

I'm going to be learning to drive this summer. When I was 15, I practiced driving in a car park a few times, and was initially quite good at control. Unfortunately, I hit the accelerator while parking and hit a fence. No one was hurt but I did cause a couple hundred in damage. I decided to wait a few years until continuining.

So I'm a bit nervous about driving. I have ADD and coordination issues, so my Se is terrible. I'm very bad at being in tune with my environment. The stimulants I'm prescribed greatly strengthen my Si, however so I'm reasonably good at choosing the appropriate, retaining focus and avoiding destraction (although I do need to watch for disappearing into my own thoughts). My issue is very very bad Se, so bad at timing, spaital awareness, which makes me very bad at executing actions. My coordination issues are as a result of a disorder I have and probably not MBTI related.

I feel despite this, I probably won't be terrible at driving, as I will be very cautious and not take unneccerary risks.

 

[Snaaake!]

Cool, good luck with driving then, I was very nervous at the beginning too, but you'll probably do fine (try not to think of all that could possibly go wrong all the time).

About my MBTI, I'm still on the fence. I do identify myself with some of INTP traits such as the ones you mentioned, but I'm leaning towards ISTP once again... I think it's worth mentioning that I took an online test once where my preference for sensing was slightly above intuition, the result was ISTP, by the way. At least I'm sure I'm IXTP now, and not only IXTX.

It seems my need for action and hands-on activities are not shared by most INTPs, especially when risk taking is involved. I'm interested in parkour, and have many of the ISTPs other typical interests, like cars, motorcycles and weapons, which is why I choose to study Mechanical Engineering. What makes me concerned is the idea of spending most of the day sitting on a desk only analysing projects without being able do deal with the said objects. While I do find theory interesting, I find some of my teachers have a tendency to overcomplicate things, while I prefer to simplify them. I guess the reason some things are easy for me to learn/process is that when I take a quick look at the subject the teacher was explaining previously, I have a tendency to think "Is it this simple?!" after making my own connections.

I learned English by attending to a language school, but I never studied for it's tests, because I didn't feel it was needed. I play a lot of video games, all of them in English, and I'm sure it's what gave me the upper hand in comparison to the other students, not only because of additional vocabulary, but also because I instinctively knew something was right because I had already listened to it in a game, so I didn't need to rely too much on theory to know if something was right.

So, what does that sound like? Assuming you haven't given up on me yet...("I guess I really am ISTP" "I'm convinced I'm INTP")lol.

 

[rmrf]

While parkour is much more up an ISTPs alley, being really good at hands on, physical and environment focused activities like parkour isn't common but still very possible for an INTP. It at least in itself doesn't prevent you from being an INTP. I think while you have qualities at both, I think more so with INTP. Perhaps with parkour, you utilize auxiliary Ne (searching through the possibilities of the environment). That feeling of instinctively knowing something is right sounds much more intuitive than sensory, as the ISTP through Se focuses on precision through the senses, the INTP Ne looks more at working out the right strategy rather than just coordination. Sorry if my post is a bit scattered and clumsy - not completely sober.

 

[Snaaake!]

I know that skill has little to do with MBTI, and now that you mention it, Ne could really be useful at parkour, but what makes me question whether I could be INTP is the motivation for participating on such activities. I do it mostly for the thrill, the same goes for some other activities I consider doing as well. I'm mechanically inclined, and I think I apply this to everything I learn, even language, so that's why I'm worried about how precise I am, especially if you take into consideration that most language schools teach you in a very formal way. I often spot my English mistakes by realizing how weird they sound, so most of the time the mistakes I make are spelling related (I cringed when I saw I had written "mystakes" because I thought of how "agressive" that could be to a native speaker's eyes lol) .

About the "just knowing" thing, couldn't it be Ni? The ISTP descriptions that take into consideration the type's tertiary intuition were the ones I mostly identified with of all types, such as this one: When does an ISTP look like an INTP or INTJ?. It describes how similar ISTPs can be to INTPs and INTJs, and I definitely agree with everything in it, so I guess that's it, I'm an ISTP who often uses his intuition and could easily be mistaken by a rational for the reasons mentioned in the link.

I'm still open to debate though. And you seemed sober enough to me in your post, lol.

 

[indra]

fission mailed

 

[Snaaake!]

fission mailed

MGS2 is my second favorite game of all time, and I hope my spelling mistakes are not as bad as this lol

 

[indra]

MGS3 is my second favorite game of all time. The first is MGS1

MGS3... fourth on my list. MGS2, MGSV, MGS, MGS3, MGS4.

But any entry in a top three is very respectable.

 

[Snaaake!]

I meant MGS2, where Fission Mailed happened, my mistake. MGS is my favorite, MGS3 my third and MGS4 the fourth, so my preference seems to coincide with the release order... I think it won't be the case with Phantom Pain though, it looks awesome but I haven't played it yet.

 

[rmrf]

Glad, I seemed sober in that post considering I had around 6 shots of whiskey that night

Addressing your doubts about INTP:

In terms of my philosophy of typing, there are no specific outward 'inconsistencies' that are "lines in the sand" preventing you from being a type. Sure, given that you're mechanically competent and having a thrill driven motivation for parkour, you wouldn't fit the description of the 'typical INTP'. Still as far as functions go, you have more in common with INTP, one's type should be seen as the 'best fit', as everyone I think can identify with some aspect of every type.

I think you're Se is pretty strong and I think you have a bit of Ni. However, what matters is that you clearly have significant Ne and a fair amount of Si (Intuitively, from your posts, I can see much more Si than Ni)

Another way of looking at this is that you have 'too much' Ne to be an ISTP and too much Si.

What I think leads to people spending a long time doubting their type and alternating between types based on changing a single letter, is too much of an emphasis on the outward type descriptions. What is important to remember is that these descriptions are only general, they are a description of what the "pure ISTP" looks like. That person does not exist, types are not entities in themselves and in order to be meaningful, they need to be attached to unique individuals. Furthermore, types are based on cognitive functions, and the descriptions of each function should be considered.

While no one on a forum knows you better than you know yourself, from everything you've said, INTP definitely seems like the most appropriate type, all things considered. While I don't think ISTP is your 'true' type, at least as far as describing your mental processes, I think you have more in common with the description of a "typical ISTP" then a "typical INTP". So don't place too much weight on those types of descriptions.

My tip to get to the bottom of your type (or anyone reading this thread) is to read the descriptions of each of the 8 functions (the Wiki here is a good place to look) and then put them in what you think your order is. Then see which type best reflects that order. Compare that order to the ordering of the type (the first two are the most important)

For example, I knew an ISTP who appeared very much like an INTP, outwardly, but he wasn't. While he wasn't very mechanical, quite 'nerdy', not sporty, and clearly didn't have good Se. The reason he isn't an INTP, is that he clearly didn't use a lot Ne. His poor Se made him appear INTP > ISTP, but that poor Se was still stronger than his Ne. So keep things like that in mind. Also the other thing to consider is that each letter is a dimension with strength, how strongly you prefer one mode to the other. People often find it difficult to find their time when one of these dimensions is weak. In your case, I think the N dimension is weak, you prefer intuition, but your sensing isn't poor. You would be close to the boundary of INTP-ISTP.

My rough guess of your dimensional strengths (% of each):
I-E (80/20) | N-S (55/45) | T-F (75/25) | P-J (60/40)*

*P-J was the one that I couldn't really tell, except that it's definitely P

 

[rmrf]

Also, have you tried a Socionics test. The system of Socionics is related but different to MBTI. While although it's a different system, knowing your socionics type will be helpful for MBTI typing you.

I would recommend "The Original Socionics Test" at Tests (thought the extended one was a bit of a timewaster).

- - - Updated - - -

Also, have you tried a Socionics test. The system of Socionics is related but different to MBTI. While although it's a different system, knowing your socionics type will be helpful for MBTI typing you.

I would recommend "The Original Socionics Test" at http://www.sociotype.com/tests/ (thought the extended one was a bit of a timewaster).