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ENFP, INFP, INTP...or something

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
Hello friends, I am brand new and this is my first post.

I have been interested in Myers Briggs since college (11 years ago.) I have consistently read articles about it, kept lists of each of my friends type, bothered people to take the test because it is one of my favorite ways of learning about the people in my life. After all of that time, though, I still waffle about what my type is. I am not an expert at all; I read mostly casual articles and still have a fairly limited view of functions and the deeper interactions. I hope you can help me!

For those who like the story:

As a teenager, I was pretty outgoing and was even the 'leader' in my friendships. I attracted weird, geeky people like me who I would help gain confidence and happiness by encouragement and pushing them to go on adventures with me (a definite trend in both my boyfriends and my friendships.) I had some bad things happen - one of my best friends was murdered when we were 17, and I was totally unexpectedly dumped after a 3 year relationship at 20. I took a MBTI test for the first time around then. I consistently tested INTJ for a few years, but in hindsight I think it might have been because I was unhappy and giving cold, misanthropic answers (no offense to INTJs; I find you all very sexy and even aspirational; my favorite fictional characters are almost always INTJs.)

After a while, I think as I became more healthy and more 'myself' again, I started testing as INTP. I have considered myself INTP for at least 5 years, now, mostly because of testing, without much of an understanding of functions. My degree is in English Literature and my favorite part of school was writing essays. I LOVED writing essays. I found such beauty of optimizing the dance of well-worded, interesting thesis statement, followed by many paragraphs of one piece of evidence each, wrapped up with a pretty bow in a conclusion. I ADORED critical theory and ate it up like manna from heaven; looking at literature through different lenses to find new truths. I also took philosophy as my minor; I love finding new ways to understand and categorize ethics, existence, everything. I was very close to going to law school, and did incredibly well on the LSAT - again, that pretty dance of formal argument, tenants, rebuttal. I love that stuff. I enjoy doing taxes, and I usually have more fun planning vacations than actually going on them. All of this to me seemed to indicate that I was indeed INTP.

In the last year or so, I have been questioning that. Although I have all of those qualities, they don't seem to be what DRIVES me, you know? I work from home as a seamstress but I don't lik ethe technical aspects of sewing - I like the sculptural ones. I am bored to tears by tailoring and formal techniques. I love beading, painting, dyeing, draping. I don't even accept commissions for sportswear or tailored looks because I know I don't have the patience to do the math and execute them well. I like sewing 100 miles an hour on my old 1970's machine in straight lines, and then putting beads and ruffles everywhere. I have even purposefully avoided learning proper techniques (I'm self-taught) out of independent, hipstery stubbornness. I would rather figure out how to do it my own way. That doesn't sound like INTP, does it? If I were INTP, shouldn't I enjoy the engineering, and the math, and learning the best techniques? I don't at all.

When I take cognitive function tests (results below) they seem to indicate INFP, yet when I read the 'You know you're an INFP when' forums I almost recoil in disgust at the amount of sensitivity and openness on display. They are also described as perfectionists, which I am not - "cover up the bad parts with embellishments" is pretty much my motto. INFP are supposed to be good listeners and put people at ease - I am anxious/fake in group situations, so I can't imagine that's true. So I continued to stick to INTP, thinking I was maybe just an exceptionally lazy (and/or dumb) INTP.

Then in the last week, after I took yet another cognitive function test, I realized that ENFP, a possibility I previously dismissed because of the 'E' - actually sits a lot better with me. Almost everything I read, I thought, 'YES!' I feel like the descriptions reached the deeper, more sacred parts of who I am. Passionate about new ideas, moving from one to another. Difficulty following through. Tendency to be gushy or insincere when socially nervous. Need for acceptance (from the few people who matter.) Overly sensitive to criticism. See details like cleaning as drudgery. HUGE need for independence, in myself and others. And the most important - although I view it as weak and pathetic, a deep, quiet part of me loves encouraging and transforming the people around me. As I mentioned in the very beginning, before my difficulties as a teenager, I tended to give all of my friends confidence and happiness. The boyfriend who left me when I was 20 started as a shy, quiet boy no one would look twice at, but by the time he dumped me, he was the lead of a popular band and one of the most popular guys at our school, confident, witty, handsome. No wonder he left me. My INFJ husband is a similar story - when we met he was an unhappy bartender who had given up on life, in a 5 year relationship with a woman who cheated on him constantly and wouldn't speak to him. (And he supported her full time.) Now he's a network engineer who has a good relationship with his family and friends again, and doesn't let people take advantage of him anymore. The best man at our wedding started crying when he talked about the change that had taken place in him since meeting me - it's not all in my head. Isn't that sort of encouragement at the heart of what an ENFP is?

The problem with ENFP is that I am the most introverted person I know. I am alone all day because I work from home, and still never want to leave the house. I moved across the country 8 years ago and have made a total one ONE new friend - and I met her through my husband's work. A quick glance through the ENFP forums saw an overabundance of exclamation points and emojis, which gross me out, and a lot of talk about stopping random people in the grocery store for a chat or getting into conversations on planes. NOPE. I pretend I'm asleep on planes and dress like a homeless person in public so everyone will leave me alone. I don't want new friends - they're a big commitment of time and energy.

The few people that I love, I love fiercely. I spend way too much time analyzing my husband and thinking about what I can do to make his life better. Whenever I splurge unwisely on some item, it's always for him. Just today I bought him a Feldrake mount for Warcraft, which I sent to him without even saying a word. He hasn't logged in yet and I am eagerly tittering with excitement for when he finds it in his mailbox. I read to him every night until he falls asleep. I put together elaborate riddle-driven, fantasy-themed treasure hunts that lead to a new board game; because we're unrepentant nostalgia kids and he loves it. I take really, really good care of him. It's hard for me to reconcile this with how I dismiss 99% of everyone as boring and spend no time on them, and hate most social situations - it seems I just prefer to spend all of my social energy on one person.

My best guess is that I am actually INFP or ENFP, but still vaguely unhealthy in that I haven't embraced my emotional side or people side (possibly as a result from the difficulties I experienced as a teenager) and stubbornly cling to Ti/Te, even though they aren't my strong point (I understand that there is only one of the two in my functions, but my test result and understanding is murky, so I'm not sure which it is. Te, if I had to guess, as I'm pretty erratic, excitable, and interrupt-y when thinking aloud.) Can you be an emotion-denying, emotion-disliking Fi user? Am I in denial about who I am? Fi seems to show up fairly strongly on my cognitive function tests, so maybe that's the case.

For those who like the facts:

Eldest child
ISTJ mother (don't get along with her well; I just tell her what she wants to hear to keep harmony)
ENFJ father (who I idolize and adore.)
INFJ husband (he is more intelligent than me, far more socially graceful than me, and an endless mystery. I adore him.)
ENTP long-distance best friend (we can talk for hours about anything in a safe space with no judgement; I love throwing ideas and jokes back and forth with him.)
ISTP local friend (she is very calm, accepting, and intelligent. I feel really safe around her and I don't get anxious like I do in most other social situations.)

9w1 Enneagram
Pretty sure of this; it really resonates with me. I was the mediator in my parents' relationship, and in my friendships. I will sometimes literally run away from conflict and I melt into a pile of hot, awkward goo when someone tries to engage me in debate, because strong opinions in my face are so upsetting to me. Peace, quiet, and sound body/mind to pursue my interests is everything to me.

Turbulant over Assertive

Harry Potter House: Slytherclaw; I can never decide between Slytherin and Ravenclaw. I filled out one of those 20 page essay questionnaires in an old Sorting community on Livejournal, and the 200+ members voted me Slytherin by a slim margin. In truth and in hindsight I think I manipulated the test to say Slytherin, though.

Here are 3 cognitive functions tests, taken in the last 2 years, in different moods and in different "maybe I'm this type" mindsets (although I always try to be unbiased when I take the test.) The latest one is from today. This is from Keys2cognition.


Ne 45
Te 36.8
Fi 34.5
Ni 32.7
Ti 31.7
Si 26.5
Se 21.2
Fe 11.4

Ne 50.2
Ni 38.8
Fi 37.9
Ti 33.8
Te 30.8
Si 24.7
Fe 11.7
Se 11.5

Ni 42.6
Ne 41.8
Fi 32.7
Te 31.7
Ti 28.7
Si 25.7
Se 21.6
Fe 14.6

Thanks in advance, everyone. This post is pretty word-vomity and my functions tests are all over the place, so I don't have much hope, but I know if anybody can figure it out, it's you guys. MBTI means so much to me and I would like to be more certain what my type is.
 
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Hawthorne

corona
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
1,946
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Can't give certainty. Only impressions. Limited ones at that.

Initially reading as Fe > ISFJ > ISTJ > INFP > introverted ENFP. Then you said "I think I could be ENFP" and I started to doubt (didn't process the title?) but no. Probably so.

yet when I read the 'You know you're an INFP when' forums I almost recoil in disgust at the amount of sensitivity and openness on display

If this is from the place I think it's from, I don't blame you for not relating to it even if you are INFP. Rainbow, unicorn, love and dreams cringe-fest tbh.

ISTJ shadows but I don't like that. I don't think Ni at all.

Yeah, sure, ENFP because you seem to jive well with middling judgement. I'm used to INFPs who float and INTPs who flitter. Perceiving contrast maybe.

Would definitely need to see more of you around here over a longer period of time before any serious conclusions could be made but atm ENFP doesn't sound like a bad starting point for self-discovery.

Angle decoding seems pointless since you introduced yourself as a "Thinker" and didn't bother trying to hide bias.

That's all i have for now.

I'll try to think of questions.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
Welcome!

I agree with Sinclair's assessment of ENFP as a possibility. I think you are stronger on the E > I based on how you describe yourself in your younger days and the 'role' you gravitated towards. The ENFPs I know are wonderful cheerleaders and supporters, and even in text form I get that feeling from you. They're easy to mistake for introverts, because they are so independent in thought, and they're extremely difficult to pin down in any way. Also, English Lit, essay-writing love, the way you describe how/why you love writing essays, seems so ENFP to me. I mean, I also have an abiding love of literature and essay-writing, but I am less enthralled with the process, unlike you, who absolutely revels in the process, which says Ne-dom to me. There's certainly plenty of Fi throughout your post, but your Ne seems the leader here.

I can see 9w1. You didn't mention your instinctual stacking, but I'm feeling sp/sx based on your post.

ETA: Your gift-giving ways are so cute!!
 

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
[MENTION=23915]Sinclair[/MENTION]

Thank you! Your feedback is so helpful. If you don't see Ni at all, I will be able to weed types with strong Ni out going forward. My INFJ, Ni-dominant husband is a total enigma to me - to the point that we sometimes can't even understand what the other is saying - so it makes a lot of sense to me that I wouldn't be strong in Ni.

I will try to overcome my lurking tendencies and start posting in these forums. It's the least I can do to thank those of you who have weeded through my post! Thank you again.

[MENTION=24914]windoverlake[/MENTION]

I am excited about the possibility of being ENFP (or another type); I think my whole life course was really thrown off in my late teens and getting back to the person I used to be will be really positive for me. Maybe the INTP mask was a defensive mechanism in my case; useful for a while, but now that I want to be more healthy and continue to grow, I need to embrace my actual strengths (regardless of what the type is; I'm open to anything.)

I don't even know what instinctual stacking is; sounds like I have some more research to do! (Again with the being excited about ideas but lacking the follow-up details most of the time.) I will do it this time!

Aw, I love my silly gifts, too. My husband is so wonderfully receptive to silliness that I can't help to want to surprise him all of the time.

Thank you so much for your comments!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,447
MBTI Type
*NF*
Enneagram
852
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think you're an ENFP as you are able to talk for hours with ENTPs with no judgement :wubbie:

However, it is better to smother an ENFP with kisses than with a receiver :smile:

MIND THE WIRE !
 

dog

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
144
MBTI Type
infp
i'd say ISFJ with a fairly balanced "undertow" (for lack of a more technical term. i still green) of EACH trait (entp). check out Kiersey's profile of SJs. see if you identify with that (i was married to an isfj for 20 plus years. but she was a very CLASSIC isfj. you dont fit so easily....maybe there's something wrong with you. lol :hug:).
 

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
Hmm, while many of the ISFJ things did resonate with me, I am not at all like my understanding of SJ's as a group. I did go and read the Keirsey profile. I am lazy, messy, disorganized, dislike chores, struggle with details that I find boring, and I definitely have no love for tradition or authority figures. My understanding of SJ's is that they are the ones out there snow-shoveling in the storm, or dutifully mowing every week...my husband and I make fun of people like that and enjoy our cat-litter scented dusty mess of a home. We want an old Victorian that we will keep filled with spiderwebs and decaying furniture. Even when I was at my 'healthiest' as a late teenager, I would always put off doing things until the last minute, drive my car out of gas and oil, and pick clothes out of dirty or clean laundry hampers because I never put anything away.

As for the things that resonated with me as to ISFJ's specifically: I do struggle with some types of change, I do value old things and old friendships (although I didn't until I moved away from everyone, so I might be a unique case in that regard,) I do give spectacular gifts to my husband (though crappy gifts or no gifts to everyone else,) I do take everything personally, and I do tend to repress my feelings. And I do like doing taxes, although it's September and I haven't filed or made an extension because my printer isn't working and driving to Fed Ex to print something or figuring out how to file online is too difficult. My plan is to file when I go to my parents' house in October and use their printer. Writing that down, I'm realizing how incredibly ridiculous that entire train of thought is, oops.

Things that did not resonate with ISFJ specifically: There seems to be a focus on altruisim, helping others, and 'doing good' in the world. I feel like 'humanity as a whole' is pretty worthless. Most people are dumb/annoying, in my personal sample size of 'everyone I've ever met.' Even in my group of acquaintances and friends, I don't have much interest in helping them. When people find out that I sew, I immediately say, 'I don't do sewing favors for family or friends, please don't ask.' I resent most holidays and having to buy presents for a bunch of people I don't care about. It enrages me, every year. I wish I could get away with just buying presents for the special few.

Edit: I woke up this morning with another thought; my worst relationships in my life are with my ISTJ mother and my ESFJ mother in law. Their rigidity about things that don't matter, constant chatter about nothing, and lack of 'soul' for a better word are almost offensive to me. (From my perspective in these two cases, obviously not a categorical nor objective claim.) From what I'm reading about ISFJ, I should get along well and be like-minded with those two, and it's not the case at all. My best relationships are almost all NF's and NT's. I tend to have a lot of difficulty with SJ's.

I am open to the idea that I don't know myself very well (which is why I'm here asking for help, so I really appreciate your perspective!) but I would be totally shocked to find that I am an SJ. Someone else mentioned ISFJ/ISTJ, too, though, so you're not alone! What are you seeing of me that is leading you there, if you don't mind my curiosity?

I hope I'm not making myself sound so terrible that everyone will give up on me, lol. Thank you so much for helping me with this, I am very excited about every post.
 

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

I really tried to be honest and objective, as manipulating my results would result in unhelpful advice. The results seem to indicate much higher Si; I'm not sure if that's from my current, 'Wow, they think I could be an ISFJ! Could I?' thoughts, or if the test just phrased things in a way that made Si click more for me. I took it a couple of times as I was really on the fence on a few answers. Thank you for the suggestion!

It did seem as though was something wrong with the Fi on this test, from both my results and from the comments on the thread you linked. It has always been somewhat healthy for me, both conceptually and as a test result. I knew "Right vs. Wrong" were the Fi questions, but the starkness/finality of that didn't resonate with me at all, so I couldn't bring myself to click decently on any of the Fi questions (as they were almost all the same.)

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||| 8.42
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.635
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||| 4.07
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||| 3.31
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3
Introverted Feeling (Fi) || 0.08
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.06
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -0.39

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||| 8.19
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.635
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||| 5.07
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||||||| 5
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||| 2.31
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||| 1.31
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.06
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -1.62
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
And what do you think of 3w4?
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

I really tried to be honest and objective, as manipulating my results would result in unhelpful advice. The results seem to indicate much higher Si; I'm not sure if that's from my current, 'Wow, they think I could be an ISFJ! Could I?' thoughts, or if the test just phrased things in a way that made Si click more for me. I took it a couple of times as I was really on the fence on a few answers. Thank you for the suggestion!

It did seem as though was something wrong with the Fi on this test, from both my results and from the comments on the thread you linked. It has always been somewhat healthy for me, both conceptually and as a test result. I knew "Right vs. Wrong" were the Fi questions, but the starkness/finality of that didn't resonate with me at all, so I couldn't bring myself to click decently on any of the Fi questions (as they were almost all the same.)

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||| 8.42
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.635
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||| 4.07
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||| 3.31
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3
Introverted Feeling (Fi) || 0.08
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.06
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -0.39

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||| 8.19
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.635
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||| 5.07
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||||||| 5
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||| 2.31
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||| 1.31
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.06
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -1.62

It's a starting point, it doesn't mean you're ISFJ or SJ. Just as your Ni scores second-highest both times, but I also think that could be because you're married to an INFJ and grew up with an ENFJ father you adored.
 

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

A lot of 3w4 resonates with me. In fact, it was my highest result when I took the Enneagram test. I ended up dismissing it as I felt like those "Slytherin" ambitious values that the Threes are known for were part of my reactive, negative behavior during my bad times; I idealized going to law school and becoming a businesswoman and 'showing them all' as a way to deal with the break-up rejection. When I met my now-husband, most of that evaporated and I went back to pursing things I was actually interested in, rather than 'things that would bring me success in the eyes of others.' Of course, it's definitely possible that Three ambition is one of my good, dominant traits. Maybe I was "in the grip" for so long that I can't tell my good healthy qualities from unhealthy coping mechanisms.

(Not to simplify and suggest that ambition is the only thing going for Threes; it is much more complex and the more detailed descriptions resonate with me as well.)

Enneagram result, this is from a couple of years ago:

Type 3: 10.7
Type 1: 8.7
Type 5: 7.7
Type 9: 7.3
Type 8: 6
Type 4: 4.3
Type 2: 1.3

Wing 3w4: 12.9
Wing 1w9: 12.4
Wing 9w1: 11.7
Wing 3w2: 11.4
Wing 9w8: 10.3
Wing 5w4: 9.9
Wing 8w9: 9.7
Wing 4w3: 9.7
Wing 5w6: 9.6
Wing 1w2: 9.4
Wing 8w7: 8.4
Wing 4w5: 8.2
Wing 2w3: 6.7
Wing 2w1: 5.7

Thank you so much for your insight! I can't believe you called my top Enneagram result. This is working. :)

Edit: I can't seem to find a link that describes 3w4 variants concisely, but based on general descriptions I would guess sp/sx.

[MENTION=24914]windoverlake[/MENTION]

Delving back into enneagram again, I do know what instinctual stacking is. Oops. How could I have forgotten that? My big Enneagram push was a few years ago and it seems I have focused disproportionately on MBTI since then. You are right that sp/sx resonates best with me, thank you!
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
ISFJ e6, as they often seem to relate to ENFP profiles and can even pass as one sometimes. 6w7s often seem "ambiverted".
Not an e9... All the rose-coloured glasses stuff about INFPs is e9 stereotypes.

INTP is hilarious...but people do seem to love their tertiary.
 
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chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
ISFJ e6, as they often seem to relate to ENFP profiles and can even pass as one sometimes. 6w7s often seem "ambiverted".
Not an e9... All the rose-coloured glasses stuff about INFPs is e9 stereotypes.

INTP is hilarious...but people do seem to love their tertiary.

ISFJ would be her shadow and yes I would agree 6w7 for ISFJ, but it's her shadow. She's ENTP 3w4, sounds like a healthy one too.
 

Dr Mobius

Biting Shards
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
872
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't usually post in these sorts of threads; but the fact no one has pointed out the obvious answer is kind of driving me up the wall. Firstly [MENTION=26060]Amaryllis[/MENTION] that is a really good OP; sitting down and telling us your story was a good move. Especially in terms of enneagram, as they say you can't write more then 500 words without saying a hell of a lot about yourself. ISFJ (I could also easily see ESFJ), but the obvious part to me is you being 2w3 sx/sp/so. I suppose I shall go through and explain why you are not the other suggested enneagrams, and are in fact an e2:

E9: is more then being conflict avoidant, its the pathological need to live in harmony. In terms of typology forums; they're the types that initially picked a type, said that’s me and never, ever budge. All doubt is swept under the rug, all dissenters are ignored, and if they get too loud or numerous there is always the short simple excuses that are magically suppose to allay doubt.

Needless to say, the fact your first post is a type me thread, is a pretty good indicator that you are not an e9.

E6:......... I don't see where that is coming from at all. They're head types, which is to say they are the most detached from reality. If you where a six your OP would end up focusing on those particular issues that your are dealing with. Certainly not the linear storyline above.

E3: I understand why people would think that, you are very much part of the image triad. They define themselves by the world around them: e2s by those they love, e3 by the success they achieve, e4 by stripping the image. The OP is a perfectly crafted piece. But it's the acceptance of your failures, no whitewashing, no twisting to make yourself look better. Revelling in your successes but accepting failures is not the signs of a e3.

E2: it really is obvious; Everything you are is in relation to those around you. It is the central focus of your being. Of those who are close, and those who should be close. As for evidence, I’ve stripped your post down to references of people in your live...........



It makes you something of a unicorn, e2s are poorly understood on typology forums. Most stereotypes revolve around badly informed views of e2 so/sps. Have a read of what’s under the spoiler and see if it fits.



Here is a link to the general e2 description as well.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
E9: is more then being conflict avoidant, its the pathological need to live in harmony. In terms of typology forums; they're the types that initially picked a type, said that’s me and never, ever budge. All doubt is swept under the rug, all dissenters are ignored, and if they get too loud or numerous there is always the short simple excuses that are magically suppose to allay doubt.

Needless to say, the fact your first post is a type me thread, is a pretty good indicator that you are not an e9.

^^^ Interesting ^^^
 

Amaryllis

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
13
[MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION]

Thank you so much for your post!

I find your point about type 9 being 'certain' of things to be spot on - that is NOT ME. That's one of the reasons I liked INTP; I am never really sure of anything, I'm the True Neutral in D&D, and I'm constantly looking at things from new angles and wondering..'Maybe that...?' I did not know that about 9's or I would not have typed myself that way. We're making progress, thank you!

It's strange to hear the ISFJ typing, and to hear that you think my life revolves around other people, when it is so at odds with how I see myself. (Grumpy, people-avoidant except my husband, focused on being the best that I can be through academic/psychological/philosophical introspection.) However, I can't really argue with your very fair evidence that I am people-focused, and many others seem to agree with ISFJ. And of course, I came here for help because I seem to have made a mess of typing myself despite years of being very interested in MBTI - which would indicate that I don't know myself very well. It should be no surprise, really, that the type many are suggesting is out of the blue for me.

I read your link all the way through. This quote helped me feel more comfortable with a people-oriented Enneagram, which I initially balked at (as you knew I would, which is why you provided compelling evidence) - "From the standpoint of the Two, it is always others who are needy and dependent, not the Two." Haha. YES! Those needy bastards.

This is what I read for 2w3, for reference. It's the longest one I could find, so I hope it's not just stereotypes, but it might be:
[Enneagram Type 2] Enneatype 2 and wings.

Some of the 2w3 and 2 sounds like me; desire to be loved, desire to be admired, desire to please. I am very proud, even with some narcissistic traits, I think. Strong willed and image-conscious, for sure. Stress arrow to 8 - I absolutely chafe against being controlled and hold on to my individualism (All of the time, though, not just when stressed. Maybe I've just been stressed for 10 years.)

What does not sound like me: (From the general two description.) I hate family gatherings. I hate holidays. (From the 2w3 description.) I struggle with 'appropriate dress' and 'seductive playfulness' - I am modest to the point of awkward prudeness (even in the bedroom) and my clothing is hipstery and usually not right for the situation. I wear dresses and tights and sweaters to the beach and to picnics, when people drag me there, because I like dressing that way and being covered, damn them all for trying to make me wear a bathing suit or shorts. I haven't worn shorts or pants in like 5 years. I am one of the least sexual, least flirtatious people imaginable. My husband says that I have yet to flirt with him. It just seems like acting, to me - acting that will be judged. I much prefer awkwardness. (Very strict religious upbringing, now abandoned, might be the cause of that, possibly.) It also says under stress 2's invent imaginary needs for others...when I am under stress I hermit and don't speak to anyone, not even my husband. The last thing I want to do when stressed is deal with people. I was practically in a relationship with Professor Snape for like 3 years because I ignored everyone and did nothing but write essays on Snape and read fanfiction, and at the time it was fine with me. I also read that 2w3 jobs where they can serve others...definitely not. I've done fabric store retail and fine dining serving and I just hated them both. I work from home to stop feeling like a servant, to feel like I am doing something creative and meaningful for my own sake. Every one of the 2w3 jobs listed made me seize up with the NOPE GET ME AWAY-ness of it.

It does seem as though the major points DO hit, the the things that I'm uncomfortable with are minor points. Definitely something to consider!

I hope I haven't based all of this on stereotypes. If I could find a book about 2w3 sx/sp specifically, I would read it immediately to have a fuller understanding and not write an ignorant post to your thoughtful response, so I apologize if that's what I've done. All I have at my disposal currently are the results of furious Googling.

----

Random dumping not necessarily related to your post specifically:

I am having a really hard time with the ISFJ comments, and I think I have a partial answer as to why. I believe in the wisdom of the hivemind; you can't all be seeing something that is 100% untrue, after all, so why am I so resistant to it?

I had a very strict religious upbringing (church events at least 5 days a week) that I abandoned in my early twenties. It was the main reason I moved across the country at 23 - most of my friends and family were horrified and it was too difficult to be around them. Maybe I somehow associate altruism and goodness with that religion - the last thing in the world I want to be is the stupid, simple woman who bakes cookies for the bake sale, because that's was the ideal forced down my throat growing up that I literally ran away from. I Will Not Be That. I think that's why I'm having such a difficult time with much of this thread recommending people-focused and altruistic MBTI/Enneagram types. I hate people like that; I can't stand my ESFJ mother in law. From my perspective she's a clingy, needy, meddler, who denies personal agency and tries to control me with her disgusting octopus tentacles. She forces me to spend time with her, wants to make me care about babies and family, and pushes me to adopt her personal values, just like everyone in my old church. How can I be one of those? I am almost in tears over hearing that the above poster might see ESFJ in me. All my MIL cares about is what they had for breakfast, what her friend Sandy did today, how the neighbor's dog is. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR'S DOG. IT IS MEANINGLESS. Service-oriented church workers and my mother in law are the two things I dislike most in life and being told I am closer to them than to my own vision of myself is very difficult. Maybe the religion-abandoning is part of why I am having such a negative reaction to something that everyone else seems to see quite clearly.

Part of what I loved about the ENFP description was the 'Inspirer' part of it, yes, but it also spoke to the 'John Denver' part of me, as my best ENTP friend and I have labeled it - the one that searches for meaning in everything, loves metaphor, sees life as a puzzle full of patterns to observe and derive insight from. Maybe I didn't emphasize that part enough. It's what I love about literature; moments of insight and personal revelation through story and philosophy. One of the ENFP lines was that they see life's complex patterns 'through a prism of emotion, compassion, mysticism.' Yaaaaaaaaass. That is me. I find revelations in song lyrics, in philosophy podcasts, in literature, in film. The moment I 'got over' my college boyfriend, or at least took the first step toward it, was while I was reading 'Frankenstein;' the monster's lack of ability to make his own choices and be given a fair chance to experience life really resonated with me. I had every opportunity - why was I choosing to be broken? I ran outside and spun around and said, 'I have my own dreams to pursue! I can do anything with my life! I am going to be okay!' It was a long road after that, still, but it was the first spark that I was going to be all right. My mom and my mother in law can't even have a conversation about those kind of things; they don't see the value in it and they literally don't understand what I'm saying when I try to talk to them about it. Neither of them read, at all. That is what I mean when I say, 'meaningless.' Maybe it's just those two; but I don't see any trace of that in the descriptions of ESFJ/ISFJ nor in the ones I know in my life.

You guys know your MBTI much better than I do; there is obviously something you are seeing that I am not. I am trying to remind myself that 'personality' goes a long way to differentiate between 'type'. Even if I am ISFJ/ESFJ, that does not make me like my mother in law. There is more to MBTI than stereotypes. The reminders aren't quite enough, though, as you can see by this ranty, panicked little post.

Despite my crappy reactions, thank you so much for your posts. It is so helpful to have an outside, unbiased perspective on myself. It is permeating, I am attempting to accept your insights as possibilities, or I wouldn't be so upset. I will continue to research ISFJ and try to understand it more, to find some possible truth there about myself. I do want to find the best path of positive growth for myself, even if it's not what I want to hear.

Edit: Mother in law just posted a dog in an Ewok costume to my Facebook. Somehow that is the perfect cherry to this ridiculous post.
 
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windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
You guys know your MBTI much better than I do; there is obviously something you are seeing that I am not.

We're all fallible, so probably best not to take what's said here too seriously. It's a process and we're sharing our observations based on the generous information you're sharing with us, but it is still limited to what you're 'choosing' to share with us, and that is just dandy. Other people who don't personally know you can offer a kind of objective assessment, but I think there's also a lot more than objective assessment that goes into understanding someone's best type. I know that I'm working out how you are similar/dissimilar to all the various typed people I know, and trying to get an intuitive read, then weighing that against something less intuitive; hoping it all leads to something very clear and close-fitting.

I'm still at ENFP for you. I don't know enough about linking MBTI with Enneagram, but I'm going to keep 2w3 in mind, as Dr Mobius made a good argument for it.
 
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dog

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
144
MBTI Type
infp
so yeah (seeing this new info), you definitely not sj... I like one of your initial guesses now - INTP . This- as opposed to xnfp- would make you more different than your infj husband, who seems mysterious to you. (I don't think he'd seem mysterious if you were xnfp- not sure if a mere J/P difference would make him that baffling).....your criticisms of people is something you mentioned a lot (which I think would be T). though I don't sense that at all in this short thread. so maybe you have some F as an undertow as well. ..as far as the S goes, you see some undertows there (but not a lot). but the way you helped your unhappy husband may not necessarily be an enfp thing. I guess it depends HOW you helped him. SJs like my wife are supposedly drawn to the "needy" and then REFORM them. An xnfp is more into ENCOURAGING them. ..my wife's idea of "helping" would be rewarding me as I get my "act together' (reforming)- 'act together'?! that sounds SOOO unappealing to me lol (is why she kicked me out)
 
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