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Fe vs Fi (INFJ vs INFP)

What's My MBTI?


  • Total voters
    6

Kullervo

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Is that really why? Because you're not sure?

What are the other possibilities then - that I'm leading everyone on for my own amusement, or perhaps conducting an elaborate thought experiment you cannot be privy to?

Well to take a positive spin on this, I'm rather flattered that you assume I never have any doubts. If only that were true.
 

Evee

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What are the other possibilities then - that I'm leading everyone on for my own amusement, or perhaps conducting an elaborate thought experiment you cannot be privy to?

Every possible scenario must be explored.

You're wont to do things like that.
 

Galena

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I voted "other" because I see Ni and Fi and definitely not ISFP. That would be an INTJ who loops in their introverted functions, kinda like me but with the other one first.
 

Kullervo

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Every possible scenario must be explored.

You're wont to do things like that.

Maybe in a thread on feminism or another one of the forum's sacred cows, where emotions are running high and the opportunity to press...certain people's buttons is too great to pass over. (It is all a bit of fun but I accept that I deserve a lot of what I get back.) But here, I actually want some help and all are welcome.

Seriously, (at a minimum) all you have to do is answer a basic question about type, and then go.
 

grey_beard

The Typing Tabby
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I find it difficult to imagine you as an INFJ. What's wrong with INTJ anyway?

Absolutely NOTHING. According to us INTJs, anyway. :dry:

But more to the point, I think the OP should check for the following items:
  • Ni -- since you once thought you were an INTJ, and now claim INFJ: both of these Myers-Briggs types have powerful Ni.
  • Te -- if you have strong Te, you are more likely an INTJ
  • Ti -- if you have strong Ti, you are more likely an INFJ

One possible hint to Te is if, when discussing possibilities, you tend to use the phrase "I think" as opposed to "I believe..." or "I feel..." or "Most people agree that..."
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Probably the most controversial, fascinating example of this is my opposition to my cousin's interracial marriage. Privately, many people in the family have expressed concerns about it to me, but I am the only one who has been consistent and told my cousin I won't be at her wedding. I also have no intention of meeting her should she travel here with her husband-to-be. While I don't deny she has a right to marry who she loves, I also have a right not to support her decision and voice that.
Behavior is a relatively poor indication of type or functional preference, since any type can behave in any way. Type is seen more clearly by examining one's motivations, thought processes, and methods. I actually don't find it that hard to see Fe and Ti at work here. Fe because you are applying your values externally, comparing them with someone else's (your cousin's) and finding theirs wanting. You are also demonstrating your values externally by doing very visible things like skipping the wedding and avoiding her future spouse. Your reasoning for this (I am remembering those other threads where you discussed it) seems more Ti-based in that it is draws on an internal logical framework you have of what makes sense. You may object to my next assertion, but I see this framework as lacking the kind of objective external evidence typical of Te use. Your framework on how the races should interact is a perfect theoretical entity within your own mind, which here is violated by your cousin's actions.

Maybe in a thread on feminism or another one of the forum's sacred cows, where emotions are running high and the opportunity to press...certain people's buttons is too great to pass over. (It is all a bit of fun but I accept that I deserve a lot of what I get back.) But here, I actually want some help and all are welcome.
The highlighted, by the way, falls under the category of trolling/baiting/flaming, which is against forum rules. But that, too, is for another discussion. You are welcome to PM if you want a more detailed explanation.
 

21%

You have a choice!
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Absolutely NOTHING. According to us INTJs, anyway. :dry:
I meant to ask the OP "Why don't you think you are an INTJ?" Sorry if I didn't word that clearly.

As for the wedding scenario, in my opinion, seems more Fi, since Fe will usually value harmony over integrity, and even when it disapproves, will probably not judge other people harshly for doing so. And really I find it really difficult to believe that an Fe user will openly disapprove of something "politically correct" without at least any guise of compassion and "it's for the greater good".

However, an Fi-dom will probably not bother to try to convince other people that their actions are justified (and will probably not cite their decision as evidence in a discussion). So, I'm not getting a Feeler vibe here.

I like the suggestion of the Ni-Fi loop.
 

Cellmold

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Maybe in a thread on feminism or another one of the forum's sacred cows, where emotions are running high and the opportunity to press...certain people's buttons is too great to pass over. (It is all a bit of fun but I accept that I deserve a lot of what I get back.)

I know you want sincere help on this one....but er...is this sentence a joke?

Aren't you just one big button that's always being pressed?
 

Kullervo

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I am a little hesitant to post this, but...

I meant to ask the OP "Why don't you think you are an INTJ?" Sorry if I didn't word that clearly.

Well, I make sense of the world in an emotional way; through feelings, beliefs and visions. However, I realise that people won't be convinced my way is right through this alone, so make an effort to appeal to T-like arguments when I can. When I typed myself as INTJ, I did so mainly because I was uncomfortable with the descriptions of MBTI INFx types, and I was also very depressed at the time, which made me run away from aspects of my identity that I'm trying to be more positive about now. There is no need to raise old ghosts though.

I also have been trained in debating and academic writing, which probably make me appear more formal and uptight than I would be were we to meet.

I am happy to explain what my beliefs are, but I don't feel very comfortable explaining why I believe what I do to the same extent...at least not on a public forum. But I'll give you a taste:

As for the wedding scenario, in my opinion, seems more Fi, since Fe will usually value harmony over integrity, and even when it disapproves, will probably not judge other people harshly for doing so. And really I find it really difficult to believe that an Fe user will openly disapprove of something "politically correct" without at least any guise of compassion and "it's for the greater good".

I believe it is ultimately in everybody's best interests to express their true feelings, and my worldview, like most radical ones, has a messianic and heroic bent (saving people from their own ignorance, punishing the corrupt/sinful and expelling invaders). So in a way, it isn't that I don't care about other people, but can accept that I and my views help to make me an outcast. I have mixed feelings about loneliness because I'm deathly afraid of "fitting in" and compromising my own special world. But of course it would be nice to share this with somebody.

Political correctness is essentially a form of self-censorship, and is going to lead to misery in the long run. I don't mind if people confront me on here, as long as you stay civil feel free to say what you like to me.

However, an Fi-dom will probably not bother to try to convince other people that their actions are justified (and will probably not cite their decision as evidence in a discussion). So, I'm not getting a Feeler vibe here.

Well, I do sincerely want to help others see what I can - why else would I keep arguing with people here and offline? I suspect an INTJ in my situation would have stopped engaging with others long ago. But the faint hope that somebody might change makes the scuffles worth the trouble to me. I am not a bad person, and ultimately I am just like everybody else here - I want to have a fulfilling life that I can share with someone. The problem is that the the civilisation and culture I belong to is under siege and politically, the world is becoming unstable again. Somebody needs to impose order and protect my people, and what makes me frustrated is that it isn't me there, as I know I could make things right again.

A lot of what needs to be done will involve some tough love. I made an example of my cousin mainly to prove I own my words and also to encourage other family members to speak up. You see I am happy to take the first step if I feel that others will follow (and a couple have, since). In a way I feel torn between my desire to express myself and my views musically, to feel love and enjoy life - and the sense that there may be a need for me to do something decisive to fix greater problems. An ordinary life will not suffice, because I was told from a young age that I'm somebody special and destined for greatness. I would like to achieve some of these things before I'm older and responsible for others, as well.

Phew, that was intense. Enough for one day.
 

EcK

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Coriolis

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As for the wedding scenario, in my opinion, seems more Fi, since Fe will usually value harmony over integrity, and even when it disapproves, will probably not judge other people harshly for doing so. And really I find it really difficult to believe that an Fe user will openly disapprove of something "politically correct" without at least any guise of compassion and "it's for the greater good".
If I have understood function theory correctly, Fe is about external subjective judgment, just as Te is about external objective judgment. Fe use is therefore consistent with expecting others to abide by some system of subjective values, just as Te will let loose with logical/logistical criticism. Fe will criticise others perceived to be acting against the harmony of the value system. Ti and Fi are more likely to be content as long as their internal house is in order.
 

21%

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Well, I make sense of the world in an emotional way; through feelings, beliefs and visions. However, I realise that people won't be convinced my way is right through this alone, so make an effort to appeal to T-like arguments when I can. When I typed myself as INTJ, I did so mainly because I was uncomfortable with the descriptions of MBTI INFx types, and I was also very depressed at the time, which made me run away from aspects of my identity that I'm trying to be more positive about now. There is no need to raise old ghosts though.

I also have been trained in debating and academic writing, which probably make me appear more formal and uptight than I would be were we to meet.
This is all very interesting. Did you notice that since you've started identifying as INFX, your debate and writing style has somewhat changed. How you perceive yourself has a lot to do with how you come off to other people. I haven't read much of your recent posts, but remember you from old ones (maybe from the period when you were very depressed), and based my reply on those.


I am happy to explain what my beliefs are, but I don't feel very comfortable explaining why I believe what I do to the same extent...at least not on a public forum. But I'll give you a taste:

I believe it is ultimately in everybody's best interests to express their true feelings, and my worldview, like most radical ones, has a messianic and heroic bent (saving people from their own ignorance, punishing the corrupt/sinful and expelling invaders). So in a way, it isn't that I don't care about other people, but can accept that I and my views help to make me an outcast. I have mixed feelings about loneliness because I'm deathly afraid of "fitting in" and compromising my own special world. But of course it would be nice to share this with somebody.

Political correctness is essentially a form of self-censorship, and is going to lead to misery in the long run. I don't mind if people confront me on here, as long as you stay civil feel free to say what you like to me.

Well, I do sincerely want to help others see what I can - why else would I keep arguing with people here and offline? I suspect an INTJ in my situation would have stopped engaging with others long ago. But the faint hope that somebody might change makes the scuffles worth the trouble to me. I am not a bad person, and ultimately I am just like everybody else here - I want to have a fulfilling life that I can share with someone. The problem is that the the civilisation and culture I belong to is under siege and politically, the world is becoming unstable again. Somebody needs to impose order and protect my people, and what makes me frustrated is that it isn't me there, as I know I could make things right again.

A lot of what needs to be done will involve some tough love. I made an example of my cousin mainly to prove I own my words and also to encourage other family members to speak up. You see I am happy to take the first step if I feel that others will follow (and a couple have, since). In a way I feel torn between my desire to express myself and my views musically, to feel love and enjoy life - and the sense that there may be a need for me to do something decisive to fix greater problems. An ordinary life will not suffice, because I was told from a young age that I'm somebody special and destined for greatness. I would like to achieve some of these things before I'm older and responsible for others, as well.
From this post alone I'll say Fe over Fi.

I'm curious about a few other things though:

How do you define "your people"? Do you think it is a solid category?
Do you believe that if you have the world your way, everyone -- even those not described as "your people" -- will be happier?
If you support segregation, how do you then promote tolerance and peace?
Also, perhaps describe your method of "tough love"?

Of if you've described this somewhere else, please link to those posts. I can never get the search function to work properly.



If I have understood function theory correctly, Fe is about external subjective judgment, just as Te is about external objective judgment. Fe use is therefore consistent with expecting others to abide by some system of subjective values, just as Te will let loose with logical/logistical criticism. Fe will criticise others perceived to be acting against the harmony of the value system. Ti and Fi are more likely to be content as long as their internal house is in order.
Originally I thought it was strange that an Fe user would do something that drastic just to uphold their belief and go against the rest of the family. I would imagine that the external pressure (from the family) would be tremendous and too big of a ripple to bother with. However, I can see that if the family is already lukewarm about this wedding and not fully supportive, the pressure won't be there in the first place. From what the OP is suggesting it seems to be that case. Then, yes, that might very well be Fe "coming to the rescue" and helping family members speak up.
 

PeaceBaby

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If ^ is not Fi, what is?

This is not specifically indicative of Fi.

I think you should rethink your decision. The wedding is not about you. It's not about your values. This decision is about your pride, and your vanity. I sense much defensiveness around you, and an aloof, purportedly detached demeanor that belies an inner insecurity. How do you feel right now? Tell me more about what emotions are evoked when considering this upcoming marriage?
 

HongDou

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I sense much defensiveness around you, and an aloof, purportedly detached demeanor that belies an inner insecurity.

*suggested 6w5 like...forever ago* :D
 
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The IEI-Ni profile resonates with me: Socionics Types: IEI-INFp Subtypes. People who know me more on here probably won't be surprised why, if they read it.

An issue has always been that on the J/P dichotomy I am right in the middle, with no preference either way, and as far as I know there isn't a direct relationship between MBTI and Socionics types. Also I can relate to both Ni and Ne-ish cognition (though I feel Ne more). For this reason I think figuring out whether I am a Fi or Fe user is going to be the key to discovering my true type.

Hmm... I'd recommend a better quality description than that to go on. Have you seen this one? Description of Intuitive Ethical Integrator (IEI)

Regarding the J/P dichotomy, my advice would be to ignore it, especially if you are a Feeler. The way J is described in MBTI is almost entirely TJ, needing order, consistency, closure, planning etc. and largely doesn't mention FJ tendencies to organise and judge emotions and sentiments, rather than structures and orders.

Regarding Ni vs. Ne cognition, the difference should always be whether you are someone who wants to expand the possibilities and find more and more things you could be doing, or if you want to limit the possibilities in setting out a clear path or outcome to work towards.
 

Poki

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The idea that I should have to change myself for somebody I don't love is very jarring. My opposition to PC and speech codes are largely apolitical in nature, and stem from this desire for limitless self-expression. While temperance and co-operation are obviously important to succeeding in life, at a fundamental level authenticity must take priority over harmony for me to feel happy.

Probably the most controversial, fascinating example of this is my opposition to my cousin's interracial marriage. Privately, many people in the family have expressed concerns about it to me, but I am the only one who has been consistent and told my cousin I won't be at her wedding. I also have no intention of meeting her should she travel here with her husband-to-be. While I don't deny she has a right to marry who she loves, I also have a right not to support her decision and voice that.

Thus I resent two things: firstly the expectation she has that however people feel about her choices, we should fake approval because she's family. This is enough for many people when confronted, but I don't believe doing something just out of duty is honest or good. I have also lost a lot of respect for my family as a result of how dishonest they've been to her, all because of loyalty and a desire to avoid conflict at all costs. I would feel ashamed by the cowardice of not owning my feelings.

If ^ is not Fi, what is?

This is far from Dom Fi, sounds more inferior or tertiary Fi. Dom Fi will do what it takes to see the other person happy irregardless of thier decisions as long as they like that person...the Person they want To See happy. I should go so far as to say....as long as they don't hate and then if they hate it's a struggle to be as nice as possible, but they will pull it off for mostpart. They WANT the other person to be happy and that is at the forefront. They are very unselfish people, very caring, and can and will bend and adjust to focus on what actually matters to them. That's the other persons happiness, not pushing their unapproved onto them.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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Btw, that "empathetic" and "popular" INFJ got tempbanned for a long period of time, and never returned. ;)
Why do you describe that poster as empathetic?

I don't know anything about that poster and conversation you quoted, but my first response is that they may be using exaggerated language and not actually mean anything they are saying or that they might have a loved one who was killed by a drunk driver. It is a fragment of information that does not give enough information to know what's going on. I wouldn't take it literally without more evidence that the person would actually kill someone for drunk driving. It is known that people tend to use more exaggerated speech and reasoning when feeling distressed with anger and frustration.
 

Jaguar

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Why do you describe that poster as empathetic?

I never did.

It's not unusual to put a word in quotation marks to indicate one thinks the opposite. Anyone ought to be able to read the exchange I posted and know the INFJ's comments were anything but empathetic.

I don't know anything about that poster and conversation you quoted, but my first response is that they may be using exaggerated language and not actually mean anything they are saying or that they might have a loved one who was killed by a drunk driver. It is a fragment of information that does not give enough information to know what's going on. I wouldn't take it literally without more evidence that the person would actually kill someone for drunk driving. It is known that people tend to use more exaggerated speech and reasoning when feeling distressed with anger and frustration.

You don't know anything about it, but I do.
 

Mal12345

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[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

I don't see myself as a likely INTJ anymore, but I think INFJ is just as unlikely because my Feeling is so obviously directed inward. Count how many times I use "I" in a post.

A common trait of introversion

Yes, I do use Fe-like arguments occasionally (i.e. individuals must be prepared to make a sacrifice for the greater good), but I don't feel emotionally connected to this worldview, nor would I take it as far as a strong Fe user might and allow the ends to justify the means.
Imagine your stock xxFJ - they are hypersensitive to the states of others, whether real or imagined. They react to any offence as if it was their own, and to avoid stress must impose harmony in their environment. To me, authenticity is more important than popularity. INTJs, the Te/Fi users that they are, tend to share this view, but INFJs do not.

Also, you probably notice that I don't express empathy for others very often. This isn't because I don't care, but because I have to imagine the emotions/experiences they experienced myself before I can understand. While this is something I am good at, it can take a little while.

I think my personality is a little hard to accommodate, probably because of how people generally imagine an INFP male will express themselves (I think the stereotype would be Marius from Les Miserables). I just have so much more energy, more aggression.

So what if you have more aggression than a fictional INFP? You may want to consider enneagram instinctuals with respect to the question of energy.
 
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