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Across the Cognition Ocean

Caravel

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Jul 30, 2015
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Specifically my cognition ocean, unfortunately. I suppose the ship (or caravel) in question for exploring is this questionnaire. Anyway, I appreciate any input or advice from any non-malicious strangers:

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

Young enough, female enough, and curious enough. In my average life circumstances with no unusual illnesses, circumstances, or stresses.

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.


https://flic.kr/p/wkBHrd

My first impression was its intensity. The posing of the bird where it's clearly focused on something below with its wings outstretched (giving it a powerful look because bigger means more strength apparently), its legs pushing off, and the high contrast between the blue, white, and black have something to do with that. The orange undertones and beak highlight the most "powerful" parts of the birds because are complementary colors to the blue.
The background makes me curious because it goes from dark blue to a teal to a light purple to light blue. I can't think of any place where a bird like that would be. That is not a mountain bird.
The imbalance of this photo bothers me. The bird is turning left and its already on the left side. It should be on the right side, turning left to make it more harmonious. The proportions of the birds are ugly. The head is too small. The right wing's first length (I would describe it as the upper arm on a human, the first length past the shoulder before it curves) is longer than the left and that makes sense, but doesn't. I dislike the coloring. The orange and gray undertone make the bird look ugly and not elegant.
I dislike this picture. It tried but it didn't vibe the impression it clearly wanted to.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?


I would be exasperated ("how unfortunate.") because inevitably someone will freak out about not being able to see the concert. I might laugh a bit or just sit there with a tight frown/smile. Probably I would listen to five seconds of chaos before telling everyone to be quiet and try to find out if anyone had any idea what to do or I would remain exasperated if someone took up this leadership position themselves. This situation was not anyone's fault but the situation's.

Or I think. It depends on the exact situation how I react with the people and my state of mind.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

I would not go because these kinds of parties are not fun. I would ask if anyone else wanted to go home with me and call a taxi or another friend. Or if that wasn't possible, compromise with the driver about how long we would stay at the party.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

They're allowed to have their own beliefs (respect your right to think and believe until it hurts others). I would have to respect that and I would probe them about it. If I thought it was something like me just preferring black over white and them preferring white over black, I could guess why they would think that way but still ask. Like MBTI preference. Si and Se are both valid ways but I do my things my way and they'll do it their way. What's best for me is not best for everyone. I would probably be interested in why they thought this way and I would get excited/smile and wave my hands around. Or if I wasn't in that mood, I would be stoic.
If it was a logical issue, I would see if they were open to criticism and if they weren't, I'd back off because nothing productive would occur. Only people can change their own minds. Pressuring them to change is mostly useless and maybe a bit wrong... It's better to be a role model and exude your beliefs to show why it's good.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

I would assess if this experience was just a one time deal that couldn't go against the general trend of experience or if this new experience was because I had theoretical, preconceived notions about the concepts surrounding this experience. If it was the former, I would make note of it and smile because it would be the outlier in the bell curve. If it was the latter, I would happily reflect on this experience and what it meant to my beliefs. And then I would change my beliefs or adjust them accordingly.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?


My most important values come and go in phases. Focusing on one value tends to mean detriment others and a stagnation so it is best to rotate your focuses. In general though, I value hope, competence, independence, diligence, kindness, practicality, forgiveness, hardwork, determination, and straight forwardness (doing things for the sake of doing them, being intrinsically inclined to do it... etc.). Determining them took a lot of thought and experience. I came to each one in a different way (meeting people, experiencing things myself, reading in books, society, etc) so it would be a hassle for me to explain this further. I think they will change in the future because I will change as a person and I think values need to match a person's needs.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

a) This is asking to be flanderized.
b) I would change my impatience. If I wasn't so impatient, I wouldn't be anxious about the future... I would cross bridges when I got there. I want to demonstrate to myself that I can make mistakes and still handle it. I can fall off a branch but still live. And I would be kinder/gentler to be people. And I wouldn't make so many mistakes in calculations.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

Are they logical? Does it matter if I follow them? Are these hunches just a random feeling that could leave you to nowhere, like the feeling you'll win the lottery this time but you actually don't? The feeling you are greater than you actually are?
Hunches are randomly scattered throughout my life.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

a) daydreaming, asking questions, laughing, being complimented, and evaluating my life. Why do I like the color green? People try to dig deeper and deeper, but the ocean floor only goes so deep. It is because it is. Unless you want to say I like the color green because it represents new growth, life, harmony, and whatever else you can think of. But that's not liking green for the sake of green. That's liking green because of the attached prestige/reputation/connections. There's nothing wrong with that but not how I roll.
b) listening to complaining, math, watching boring, unproductive movies...

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

I repress nothing unless it's inherently mean. I can't think of anything I actively hide. I like who I am, and I have no trouble sharing that with others. I suppose I suppress thoughts about green symbolism (hypocrite) in public or personal thoughts that nobody needs to know about but that's because nothing would come out of it? Or I just feel no motivation to share it. I repress what I have no motivation to share. Hm. What is repression? I like talking (a lot. I'm chatty.) to people if that's the environment that I'm in because it's the most interesting thing, but I don't actively seek that environment.

===

That is it! Thank you again.
 

Evee

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MBTI Type
INFP
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Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The sea is a symbol for the mother.
 

Caravel

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Jul 30, 2015
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Alas, no advice yet.

(ha, I aggressively refuse to let this die. Even though a day is hardly dying. But nobody looks at the stuff at the bottom of the page.)
 

lowcal

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The sea is a symbol for the mother.
And this is helpful to OP's thread because...?

Hey! I see that your thread has no (useful) replies yet, so I'm here to give a bump and possibly help. I'm pretty new to typology myself as well, so please take my words with a grain of salt.

They're allowed to have their own beliefs
Fi valuing.

hope, competence, independence, diligence, kindness, practicality, forgiveness, hardwork, determination, and straight forwardnes
Delta values in general.

Matter of fact communication style points to logical ego. Actually, your writing reminds me very much of one ESTJ I know. And yes I thought of ESTJ even before reading the replies and seeing that you also considered this type for yourself.

In conclusion:

I lean delta (that would be xSTJ,xNFP) and specifically ESTJ, because you mentioned impatience as one of your weaknesses. If not, also consider gamma NTs.
 

Caravel

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Jul 30, 2015
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And this is helpful to OP's thread because...?

Hey! I see that your thread has no (useful) replies yet, so I'm here to give a bump and possibly help. I'm pretty new to typology myself as well, so please take my words with a grain of salt.


Fi valuing.


Delta values in general.

Matter of fact communication style points to logical ego. Actually, your writing reminds me very much of one ESTJ I know. And yes I thought of ESTJ even before reading the replies and seeing that you also considered this type for yourself.

In conclusion:

I lean delta (that would be xSTJ,xNFP) and specifically ESTJ, because you mentioned impatience as one of your weaknesses. If not, also consider gamma NTs.

Thank you (sorry this is late). I knew beforehand I was most likely an Fi-Te user so I'm glad to see more confirmation. I'm also most likely a sensor (after hanging out with actual intuitives I see that we work on different wavelengths, especially with Ne users so I doubt I'm an NT or NP.

Why does a matter of fact style lead to logical ego?
 

lowcal

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Thank you (sorry this is late). I knew beforehand I was most likely an Fi-Te user so I'm glad to see more confirmation. I'm also most likely a sensor (after hanging out with actual intuitives I see that we work on different wavelengths, especially with Ne users so I doubt I'm an NT or NP.

Why does a matter of fact style lead to logical ego?

I'm of the opinion that mbti and socionics directly correlate, so I typed you in socionics which is a much more coherent system.

1. You're definitely on the Fi-Te axis.
2. If you look at some questionnaires done by some real Fi types, they tend to make the questionnaire more subjective and opinionated then yours. While yours is written matter-of-factly, it is quite impersonal and I get the impression that you are just stating facts even when it is a personal question. Therefore I think you're a Te type. But of course, you could also be a very developed Fi type too, it is possible.
3. As I said, the questionnaire seems to have delta values over gamma values. Please take a look at the 2 pages and tell me which you relate more to.
4. I just read the questionnaire again, and there were hints of Ne hidden agenda (daydreaming) and Ni polr in question 9, haha.

All of the above combined made me think xSTJ, specifically ESTJ.
I put xNTJ as a distant second because I'm not good at telling apart Si vs Ni, so it is still possible.
I did not mention xSFP because they contradict points 2,3,4.

You might want to take a look at the ESTJ (LSE) profile, or ISTJ (SLI) profile. Good luck! Ask me if you have any questions.
 

Caravel

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I'm of the opinion that mbti and socionics directly correlate, so I typed you in socionics which is a much more coherent system.

1. You're definitely on the Fi-Te axis.
2. If you look at some questionnaires done by some real Fi types, they tend to make the questionnaire more subjective and opinionated then yours. While yours is written matter-of-factly, it is quite impersonal and I get the impression that you are just stating facts even when it is a personal question. Therefore I think you're a Te type. But of course, you could also be a very developed Fi type too, it is possible.
3. As I said, the questionnaire seems to have delta values over gamma values. Please take a look at the 2 pages and tell me which you relate more to.
4. I just read the questionnaire again, and there were hints of Ne hidden agenda (daydreaming) and Ni polr in question 9, haha.

All of the above combined made me think xSTJ, specifically ESTJ.
I put xNTJ as a distant second because I'm not good at telling apart Si vs Ni, so it is still possible.
I did not mention xSFP because they contradict points 2,3,4.

You might want to take a look at the ESTJ (LSE) profile, or ISTJ (SLI) profile. Good luck! Ask me if you have any questions.

1) Good.
2) Agreeable. I like to justify my points, provide examples. For example, my friend always states that she loves XXXX but never seems to produce any evidence about it (I spend ten hours on it each week or explain any knowledge about it) so it bothers me.
3)

[Gamma]
Te blocked with Ni, Symbol p.gif Symbol t.gif
Gamma types take a longer-term view regarding efficiency and profitability, giving lower priority to the short term. Likewise, they tend to aim at the broader benefits of decisions, rather than only at those affecting themselves, giving them an inclination for self-sacrifice. I attempt this but I don't have the perspective or the maturity to achieve this without getting anxious or negatively viewing the future.
Gamma types like to talk about where present trends are leading in terms of potentially profitable events and undertakings. Nope.
Gamma types tend to give more value to ideas and concepts that are firmly connected to factual information. I used to value theory, but then it occurred to me that the practical application was where all the ideas went wrong and that there was a difference between knowledge and practical knowledge (i.e. knowing vs. understanding). So yes.
Fi blocked with Se, Symbol r.gif Symbol f.gif
Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.Eh... I tend to cut people out of my life because I give up on them but after a while, I forgive them maybe if it's convenient.
Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established. I don't relate but then again, I don't know if this is false about me.
Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance. Hm... I wouldn't stick around for these "jerks" but I could believe it. I think I discuss them realistically, or I strive to.

The dominant IM elements of the Delta Quadra are Te, Fi, Ne, Si that correspond to symbols Symbol p.gif Symbol r.gif Symbol i.gif Symbol s.gif, respectively. Grouping together the elements of the Ego blocks of the Delta Quadra types, we get a picture of what aspects of life Delta Quadra types strive to bring to the forefront of life, as well as the kind of group atmosphere and lifestyle they pursue.
Te blocked with Si: Symbol p.gif Symbol s.gif
Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships. It's often a point of complaint that I explain my thinking before I actually get to the point. This morning I spent an hour trying to figure out the best waiting time before reviewing notes (as reviewing immediately after a lecture doesn't help) so... Yes? I'm not sure about relationships. I don't talk about it but I definitely seek a purpose behind my relationships with people.
Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time. Mortar and pellet...
Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership. True. Individualist.
Ne blocked with Fi: Symbol i.gif Symbol r.gif
Delta types love to share personal experience mixed with their own sentiments regarding their experiences, but all in an insightful and non-dramatic manner. I don't regard myself as dramatic.
Delta types like to talk about new beginnings, opportunities for personal growth, and their plans and prospects for the future. I don't talk about it. I'm not the most positive person in regards to the future... And new beginnings...? Everything always has a baseline.

I related to both but yes, Delta. Gamma seemed a bit too cold, even though I agreed with aspects of it, but those aspects were also prevalent in Delta. Delta described my relationship with others very well with the splintering and temporary interest. I'm more focused on the present.

4) I was always confused about my daydreaming. I couldn't figure out my relationship with it.

I was explaining one of my disintegration/stressed out states to a friend and I explained the situation was that I was like a bird on a branch and how I was paranoid about the branch breaking. Except it was much more layered than that because along with this paranoia, I had doubts about my perspective on the situation itself: will I be the one to break the branch, when will the branch break, am I actually a bird, are my wings broken, do I have enough time to fly, will all branches break on me from now on, what if I change into a squirrel, will the squirrel break the branch, etc. It doesn't make any sense (and I forget that I can deal with the branch breaking and I doubt my competency to rise to the situation [though I do believe myself to be competent. I blame the situation.]). I have a habit of negating positive qualities because of negative ones (which is human), but I've recently (cognitively) realized that different qualities don't affect each other, but just the relative weights affect the overall object at hand. Seems like common sense, but it stopped my bad habit.

The friend diagnosed this as lower Ne... But then again this is only one example in a general trend.

Thank you for your input and help ^^
 

lowcal

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I was explaining one of my disintegration/stressed out states to a friend and I explained the situation was that I was like a bird on a branch and how I was paranoid about the branch breaking. Except it was much more layered than that because along with this paranoia, I had doubts about my perspective on the situation itself: will I be the one to break the branch, when will the branch break, am I actually a bird, are my wings broken, do I have enough time to fly, will all branches break on me from now on, what if I change into a squirrel, will the squirrel break the branch, etc. It doesn't make any sense (and I forget that I can deal with the branch breaking and I doubt my competency to rise to the situation [though I do believe myself to be competent. I blame the situation.]). I have a habit of negating positive qualities because of negative ones (which is human), but I've recently (cognitively) realized that different qualities don't affect each other, but just the relative weights affect the overall object at hand. Seems like common sense, but it stopped my bad habit.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about how Ne hidden agenda manifests in real life. This is what my ESTJ friend said:

[2:28:28] Uh I'd say Ne HA is going down a pit of misery inside my head
[2:28:29] Like
[2:28:34] Drop a tomato
[2:28:50] Welp I'm incompetent better kill myself right now

You two have the same concern regarding competency under stress, but I don't know if it's the same thing. Anyway, there is nothing in here that contradicts the ESTJ typing.

If anything, the last point in this paragraph about the focus on negative qualities is actually more evidence to ESTJ. That sounds like a negativist trait (ESTJs/LSEs are negativists). I am a negativist as well, and I completely understand what you mean.

Also, since you relate more to delta values, that's strong evidence that you are a delta type (xSTJ/xNFP). I think you should seriously consider ESTJ/LSE. Do take a look at those profiles if you have the time:

If you would like to know more, I'd be happy to talk and answer further questions. :bye:
 

Caravel

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Unfortunately, I don't know enough about how Ne hidden agenda manifests in real life. This is what my ESTJ friend said:

[2:28:28] Uh I'd say Ne HA is going down a pit of misery inside my head
[2:28:29] Like
[2:28:34] Drop a tomato
[2:28:50] Welp I'm incompetent better kill myself right now

You two have the same concern regarding competency under stress, but I don't know if it's the same thing. Anyway, there is nothing in here that contradicts the ESTJ typing.

If anything, the last point in this paragraph about the focus on negative qualities is actually more evidence to ESTJ. That sounds like a negativist trait (ESTJs/LSEs are negativists). I am a negativist as well, and I completely understand what you mean.

Also, since you relate more to delta values, that's strong evidence that you are a delta type (xSTJ/xNFP). I think you should seriously consider ESTJ/LSE. Do take a look at those profiles if you have the time:


If you would like to know more, I'd be happy to talk and answer further questions. :bye:
Thank you!
 
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