• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

INTJ or INFP?

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
I'm sort of like Nick Offerman in speech. Maybe it's put on. I don't know.

Again, I can't say if this is me now or if I've always been like this or if I'll always be like this.

My family are the only ones who can see another side of me. The outside world will see a mask. Maybe long ago I was fe-ish, but now I'm usually deadpan.

Looking in my eyes (supposedly the windows to the soul if such a thing exists) you can see a sort of emptiness.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
I'm sort of like Nick Offerman in speech. Maybe it's put on. I don't know.

Again, I can't say if this is me now or if I've always been like this or if I'll always be like this.

My family are the only ones who can see another side of me. The outside world will see a mask. Maybe long ago I was fe-ish, but now I'm usually deadpan.

Looking in my eyes (supposedly the windows to the soul if such a thing exists) you can see a sort of emptiness.

There's still warmth in INTJ eyes, it just takes a longer time to see it. With INFJ eyes the warmth is always there, but I think it's possible for an INFJ to occasionally put on the Darth Vader eyes.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
Good point. Let me ask you then, do you think there is any truth to the idea that functions start to appear with age? Being in my early 20s, that would mean my Ti has developed, thereby giving me a more logical outlook.

I don't know enough about how the CF develop, so I cannot say. I do think a lot of these things get worked out in your twenties, and a lot of clarity arrives as you approach your thirties. Just be yourself, in that it's always best to follow your own impulse and will. I know that sounds simple, but your twenties are full of questions; it helps to simplify. It might even be helpful to just put all this stuff to one side and simply approach all experience with openness, but with the understanding that you are your own counsel. There's really no such thing as an expert, and it's such a silly designation.


I think both of these characters are Thinkers. In fact, TD has a very T-vibe to it.
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
I don't know enough about how the CF develop, so I cannot say. I do think a lot of these things get worked out in your twenties, and a lot of clarity arrives as you approach your thirties. Just be yourself, in that it's always best to follow your own impulse and will. I know that sounds simple, but your twenties are full of questions; it helps to simplify. It might even be helpful to just put all this stuff to one side and simply approach all experience with openness, but with the understanding that you are your own counsel. There's really no such thing as an expert, and it's such a silly designation.

I was thinking about all this earlier. Maybe in ten or fifteen years things will be clearer.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
I was thinking about all this earlier. Maybe in ten or fifteen years things will be clearer.

Or sooner than that. It takes time, and there are moments during the process when you make leaps in self-understanding/self-unveiling. Regardless of type/personality sorting doodads, you're doing well as long as you keep the last word for yourself. That whole "If you meet the Buddha, kill him".
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
So just to clarify, the main difference between Fi and Ni is that Fi deals more with values and Ni deals more with the imagination? I keep reading about how Ni users create worlds in their head, and yet INFP's are called 'dreamers'.

I do present a mask to the world, but how could I know whether my Fi is dominant over my Te or vice versa?

Inferior Se makes a whole lot of sense, and although I'm jumpy and random I can't say my primary function is directed towards the outside world as I stray away from interaction and live inside my head.

The only INTJ writer I know is Asimov, and having read The Last Question...I'm not sure I could ever write something like that.
 

Destiny

A wannabe dog
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
452
So just to clarify, the main difference between Fi and Ni is that Fi deals more with values and Ni deals more with the imagination? I keep reading about how Ni users create worlds in their head, and yet INFP's are called 'dreamers'.


This is not what Ni is about. Any types can be imaginative, including Ne types.

If you want an example of an INFP, Gandhi is a good example of an INFP. He has a strong set of values/moral compass, he strives to follow those values of his as closely as possible and he believes in being the change that he wants see in this world, he hopes that by staying true to his Fi values and living his life as closely to his Fi values as possible, he would eventually managed to influence and change the world using his Te.

INFPs who have Fi in their dominant function will usually spend their majority of time devoting their time to specific causes in life. They are often found focusing on the helpless and downtrodden, helping the homeless, volunteering in animal shelters and protecting endangered species, caring for children with special needs etc. And then there are some INFPs who will spend their entire lifetime pursuing their artistic or religious passions with vigorous devotion.

INTJs with Fi in their tertiary position would be less concerned with those type of things. They are less concerned about the humanitarian affairs of the world as compared to INFPs with dominant Fi.
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
Gandhi is a good example of an INFP.


Actually, no. Gandhi is what INFJ's are stereotyped to be. He is so INFJ that his image is used to represent INFJ's.

INFPs who have Fi in their dominant function will usually spend their majority of time devoting their time to specific causes in life. They are often found focusing on the helpless and downtrodden, helping the homeless, volunteering in animal shelters and protecting endangered species, caring for children with special needs etc. And then there are some INFPs who will spend their entire lifetime pursuing their artistic or religious passions with vigorous devotion.

The same could be said about any type. Functions =/= behaviors. And if you believe that F equals emotions (it doesn't) than any F type could fit what you've said.

They are less concerned about the humanitarian affairs of the world as compared to INFPs with dominant Fi.

I think Bill Gates (an ENTJ) cares more about helping people than Cobain, Edgar Allan Poe, or Van Gogh ever did.
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
Lead functions alone is too tricky to grab hold of. Let's try looking at the Auxiliary instead: Ne vs. Te.

Can you describe, free-style (don't think about it in typologically), how you approach information? What kind of attitude would you say you have about information-gathering? If you were working on a group project, which role would you create for yourself?
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
Can you describe, free-style (don't think about it in typologically), how you approach information? What kind of attitude would you say you have about information-gathering? If you were working on a group project, which role would you create for yourself?

Let's assume I've never lived a day in my life. That any vague example thrown at me cannot be answered either because my memory fails or I cannot relate to the example. If you want to focus on Te vs Ne, then lets do it the proper way.

https://www.reddit.com/r/academicmbti/


"Extraverted thinking, therefore, need not necessarily be a merely concretistic thinking--it may well be a purely ideal thinking, if, for instance, it can be shown that the ideas with which it is engaged are a great extent borrowed from without, i.e. are transmitted by tradition and education." (Jung 1923)

"It is no proof of its extraverted nature that it is preoccupied with concrete objects, since I may be engaging my thoughts with a concrete object, either because I am abstracting my thought from it or because I am concretizing my thought with it." (ibid.)

"This type of man gives the deciding voice--not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage--either to the actual objective reality or to its objectively orientated, intellectual formula. By this formula good and evil are measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. All is right that corresponds with this formula; all is wrong that contradicts it; and everything that is neutral to it is purely accidental... If tolerance for the sick, the suffering, or the deranged should chance to be an ingredient in the formula, special provisions will be devised for humane societies, hospitals, prisons, colonies, etc. or at least extensive plans for such projects. For the actual execution of these schemes the motives of justice and truth do not as a rule, suffice... 'One really should' or 'one must' figure largely into this programme." (ibid.)

"The thought of the extraverted thinking type is positive, i.e., it produces. It either leads to new facts or general conceptions of disparate experimental material. Its judgement is generally synthetic. Even when it analyses, it constructs, because it is always advancing beyond the analysis to a new combination, a further conceptions which re-unites the analysed material in a new way or adds something further to the given material... This quality is due to the fact that thought is the main channel into which a thinking-type's energy flows." (ibid.)

"The extroverted thinking type established order by taking a definite stand and saying, 'If we say so-and-so, we mean so-and-so.' They put clarifying order into the outer situation... If one were to ask him about his subjective attitude or ideas on a certain subject, he would be at a loss, for he is not concerned with that area of life and would be completely unconscious of any personal motive." (von Franz 1971)

"[when inferior] are generally interested in an immense number of facts... they have the usual extrovert's difficulty of being overwhelmed by too much material, too many references and too many facts, so their inferior extroverted thinking sometimes just gets lost in a morass of details through which they can no longer find their way. The inferiority of their extroverted thinking very often expresses itself in a certain monomania: they have actually only one or two thoughts with which they race through a tremendous amount of material. (ibid.)

"The thinking extravert classifies his sensations, according to the opinions and ideas of the outer world, and of his social surroundings. He also systematizes by Thought the life of the impulses, valuating it according to principles borrowed from his surroundings. He tends to neglect the claims of the outer world. Material facts are what chiefly govern his mind, and when his Thought groups these facts into an objective system, the result will often be a materialistic view of life... If his extravert attitude is strongly marked, he will tend to neglect more and more the assimilation and development of experience, so that the final result will be a confused and overwhelming mass of disconnected facts... When he is treating facts alone, he may attain very valuable results; but when dealing with sensations and impulses, he has to assimilate the opinions and principles of many different people, in order to attain a sufficiently wide point of view of his own." (van der Hoop 2013)

What I gathered from this information is:

1) Te deals with ideas/information that has been taught or experienced. It doesn't necessarily have to do with concrete items.

2) Te users issue control/demand over their social/work situations

3) Te doesn't just deal with facts, it adds something.

4) Te shapes facts into an organized system.

I honestly have no clue how Te can be seen in an individual as my mind has trouble grasping for practical examples. But as I want to be an artist, let's use a Te artist for comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6E6OUqCPAw

"Just as extraverted sensation strives to reach the highest pitch of actuality, because only thus can the appearance of a complete life be created, so intuition tries to encompass the greatest possibilities, since only through the awareness of possibilities is intuition fully satisfied. Intuition seeks to discover possibilities in the objective situation; hence as a mere tributary function (viz when not in the position of priority) it is also the instrument which, in the presence of a hopelessly blocked situation, works automatically towards the issue, which no other function could discover. Where intuition has priority, every ordinary situation in life seems like a closed room, which intuition has to open. It is constantly seeking outlets and fresh possibilities in external life. At times objects would seem to have an almost exaggerated value, should they chance to represent the idea of a severance or release that might lead to the discovery of a new possibility. Yet no sooner have they performed their office, serving intuition as a ladder or a bridge, than they appear to have no further value, and are discarded as mere burdensome appendages. A fact is acknowledged only in so far as it opens up fresh possibilities of advancing beyond it and of releasing the individual from its operation." (Jung 1923)

"The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist. He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowleged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. He seizes hold of new objects and new ways with eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as sson as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them." (ibid.)

"[inferior extroverted intuition] also has a very weird, eerie, fantastic quality. But it is more concerned with the impersonal, collective world... archetypal fantasies that do not mainly represent the problem of the dreamer, but those of his time... for them the future does not exist, future possibilities do not exist, they are in the here and now, and there is an iron curtain before them. They behave in life as though it will always be the same as it is now; they are incapable of conceiving that things might change. The disadvantage of this type is that when these tremendous inner fantasies well up, such a person has great difficulty in assimilating them because of the accuracy and slowness of his conscious function. If such a type is at all willing to take his intuition seriously, he will be inclined to try to put it down very accurately. But how can you do that? Intuition comes in a flash, and if you try to put it down it has gone!... intuitions are very often of a sinister character, and if not worked upon, therefore, the prophetic contents that breaks through will be pessimistic and negative." (von Franz 1971)

"...will score very high in surmising the future outer developments around him... One finds them wherever there is something new brewing, even in the more spiritual realms. They will always be in the advance movement." (ibid.)

"Now the extroverted intuitive, because he is capable of sniffing the wind and knowing what the weather will be tomorrow, will see that this perhaps completely unknown painter or writer is the man of tomorrow, and therefore he will be fascinated." (ibid.)

"...tends to be unpunctual and vague. A disadvantage of having this as a main function is that the intuitive type sows, but rarely reaps." (ibid.)

"the individual will form intuitive judgments of what goes on in the outer world, and will be apt to suddenly discover connections between things, without being able to explain them... While Sensation is chiefly concerned with the actuality of things, Intuition sees what is of personal importance. It is specifically gifted in discovering all the various possibilities of individual development and activity." (van der Hoop 2013)

"The extravert intuitive type is more difficult to describe than the feeling or the thinking types, because one of its chief characteristics is its instability and its great power of adapting itself. The unconscious mental processes of persons of this type make them aware of special possibilities, which will then influence all their actions, feelings, and thoughts. Peaceful, well-balanced relations with their surroundings give them a sense of discomfort. They express themselves more immediately than the other types both in actions and in words, without taking thought beforehand, and without necessarily expressing much of their personality. They are always striving to realize the fullness of life by realizing their own being in its various manifestations. At one moment they will attach enormous importance to certain human beings or problems, which will be forgotten or thrust aside as soon as they have served their purpose." (ibid).

"...have lively, keen minds, and to express themselves easily and abundantly. They are less in contact with their fellow-beings than the extravert feeling type, because they are less able to elaborate their expression, and adapt it to others. They also have less inner unity than the thinking types, and their various forms of expression are less coordinated. They only consider others to be of importance in so far as they can assist or prevent the realization of their own potentialities of development, as revealed to them by intuition; and they are apt to judge thoughts and principles, and the ethical significance of their impulses, according to this one practical point of view, and not according to generally accepted standards. The only law they recognize is the higher power which is urging them forward. Persons of a different type are often astonished at the assurance of the intuitions by which they are guided; but if their self-confidence forsakes them for a moment, they are completely at a loss. This dependence upon impulses is apt to make them somewhat fickle." (ibid.)

"Such intuitive persons are often very active, because they involuntarily tend to apply all their energy to whatever may arise at the moment; but they are usually very impatient for results, and have a great need of variety. They display more impulsive energy than concentrated willpower." (ibid.)

I'm not going to recap all of this but it's here for you to read.

Artistic Ne:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E499RlpyOEk
 

KitchenFly

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
874
I have a different idea, what if your Fi comes from the ESFP's second preference and the Ni comes from the ENTJ's second preference. That could place you as being a Sx/sense/Sp.

An interesting thing about Sx/Sp is that it involves three points on the enneagram, point 4 (Sx), point 3 (sense), point 2 (Sp) and Ego within the enneagram model involves three points on the enneagram symbol one of each of the three points involved are placed, one within the relating triad Point:8, one within the thinking triad Point:7 and one within the feeling triad at the Primary Point:3.

So if your following along the sense is the instinctual emotion at point:3 and the ESFP and ENTJ energies are located at point:7 (ESFP 7w6) & (ENTJ 7w8). I mention points severn and eight because they are linked to the Social Instinct (Sensing). Type's seven and eight are secondary types and are on the six pointed figure of the enneagram and the (sense) also part of Ego as it is apart of Instinct is apart of the inner triangle of the enneagram symbol.

So if INFJ and INFP and INTJ over time don't fit perhaps if you may consider ISTJ 3w2 Sx/Sp.

The ISTJ 3w2 has three connections that match with Sx/sense/Sp.

Mood at Point 4 (ENFP) / Conches at Point 3 (ISTJ) / Agenda at Point 2 (ENFJ)

Type three can move towards both point nine and point six under stress and while within a neurotic mind set. As can type six move to three and nine and type nine move to six and three.

So yes you maybe a 9w1 Sp/So or a 6w5 Sp/Sx or a "9w8 ( So/Sx--Sx/Sp--Sp/So )."

A video of you would be helpful.

Good luck with your search for your type and in understanding its workings.
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
So if INFJ and INFP and INTJ over time don't fit perhaps if you may consider ISTJ 3w2 Sx/Sp.

Going by behavior, I do have some ISTJ qualities. As far as the cognitive functions are concerned:

...the introverted sensation type was like a highly sensitized photographic plate. When somebody comes into a room, such a type notices the way the person comes in, the hair, the expression on the face, the clothes, and the way the person walks. All this makes a very precise impression on the introverted sensation type; every detail is absorbed.

No. It bothers me that I do not pay attention to what shirt the person I'm with is wearing, because then it becomes difficult to find them.

I just wish someone would take the time to skim http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type-/73386-life-story-read.html or the My Current State post on page 1 of this thread and tell me any examples of the functions in my past. If people cannot change types, then my outlook has changed and muddled with who I really am.
 

KitchenFly

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
874
I read a large percentage of you like post long story, and my clear impression all the way though what of what I read 2/3's was ENTP 4w5 So/Sx/Sp.

You seem to spend much time in Mood and that will be the 3w2 ISTJ and your agenda will be INTP 5w4.

There is a post about the shadow settings for each of the 16 types and since you seem to be very keen to understand Ti and Ni and what ever else I would track that down and look at the setting for ENTP and see what you think.

I looked at mine and I like what I read I thought that in the general of me being it was Accurate but I know I can act out from the energies of many parts of my personality so when I act out of other parts of my personality it is not completely correct but when I act out from the drive of my core personality it seems to fit my being very accurately.

Let me know what you think of my typing of you and I hope my first post was not to confusing, I must of felt the mood of you spoken tongue though your post and taped into you So Instinct.

Good luck with your investigation into discovering what type real are.

One last point you may have a strong Sx within your So/Sx and that would make sense because both your agenda and the Sx component shear the same point energy so to say at point five, that is if my typing of you as a 4w5 ENTP So/Sx is intact correct.

Cheers.

I looked up that topic for you

Mbti and Jungian cognitive functions.

Chado; What do you guys think of the theory of shadow functions coming forward during stress?

ENTP=shadow=Ni Te Fi Se

"Cool my job is done."
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
Much appreciated. But can you point to examples of Ne and Ti in the "Life Story" post?
 

windoverlake

New member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
403
MBTI Type
INFJ
I need more time with this but will be back in several days' time. I'll go back and read the entirety of your life story post & try to reassess.
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
Much appreciated. When you come back, please quote any passages that evoke a sense of one of the functions and explain it to me instead of "I saw a lot of Ne/Ti/Fi". It would really help me understand.
 

Destiny

A wannabe dog
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
452
Actually, no. Gandhi is what INFJ's are stereotyped to be. He is so INFJ that his image is used to represent INFJ's.



The same could be said about any type. Functions =/= behaviors. And if you believe that F equals emotions (it doesn't) than any F type could fit what you've said.



I think Bill Gates (an ENTJ) cares more about helping people than Cobain, Edgar Allan Poe, or Van Gogh ever did.


Despite being typed as INFJ by lots of people, Gandhi is actually INFP, because he uses Fi and not Fe.
He doesn't adopt the values of the people around him, instead, his morals and values in life mainly comes from himself, he has a very individualistic way of thinking and viewing this world, which is commonly found among Fi doms.

•Introverted feelers: change the external world (Te); defend righteousness (Fi)
•Extroverted feelers: learn the external world (Ti); persuade others (Fe)

Gandhi leans more toward the former than the latter.

And also, I am seeing you as INFP. Your writing style, your thinking style and the way you debate and everything is so similar to me. And I have been typed as INFP by many :D
 

Nasalaley

New member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
27
Despite being typed as INFJ by lots of people, Gandhi is actually INFP, because he uses Fi and not Fe.
He doesn't adopt the values of the people around him, instead, his morals and values in life mainly comes from himself, he has a very individualistic way of thinking and viewing this world, which is commonly found among Fi doms.

I don't know much about Gandhi, but I image it's more likely an Fe user would lead his people and practice non-violence. But this is neither here nor there.

And also, I am seeing you as INFP. Your writing style, your thinking style and the way you debate and everything is so similar to me. And I have been typed as INFP by many

I don't think writing styles matter, but can you give me specific examples of my Fi and Ne? I mean, using the things I've said as an example.
 

KitchenFly

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
874
Much appreciated. But can you point to examples of Ne and Ti in the "Life Story" post?

..you do your own work, stop being such a lazy 4w5 So/Sx.

Ne is partly your reliance upon others, seeking-actively in the now moment. Ti is the desire for such!

Use your brain. Your trance is full of it? Conches is Ne lead, Agenda is Ti lead.

It's a no brainer. Did you not spend any time inter reflecting upon the knowledge I sheared with you?

Would you like me to come over and cook your dinner for you,so you can remain on the same relaxed plateau buzzing along with only that which interests you and sustains the relaxing self trancing spectrum you invest so much energy into each and every-Day?

Wake Up!
 
Top