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Trouble with the INFP women family members in my life.

Eluded_One

Building muscle memory in my brain
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Mar 29, 2011
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sp/sx
The issue that gets my attention first is the appeal to authority. It's fallacious to claim that they all must be INFP because they were tested by the aunt who is now a PhD. If there were better evidence that they were INFP through a discussion of bad behaviours more typical to the type, I would be inclined to more quickly accept the claim. It's not denial of my bad side that leads me to question type here. It's the evidence I've amassed over many years watching INFPs in action, including myself

A claim is all it is. Perhaps you're taking it for more than it is. Personally, I don't take anything at face value, especially from a stranger, but then again, my purpose wouldn't be to post in a thread made by someone asking for help when all I can offer is criticism and suspicion, which leads me to the point where I have to just play along until I find a good reason not to. How do you intend to help a person if you don't believe them? One thing I do know for sure, not everyone is here to help.

I don't think they are INFPs...

So let's summon up the summation of our INFP stereotypes on what they are and should be, and see if they fit in with [MENTION=24859]Etrielle[/MENTION] 's relatives. Let's work on the problem and never get to a solution.

INFP is an archetype, people are simply people.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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A claim is all it is. Perhaps you're taking it for more than it is. Personally, I don't take anything at face value, especially from a stranger, but then again, my purpose wouldn't be to post in a thread made by someone asking for help when all I can offer is criticism and suspicion, which leads me to the point where I have to just play along until I find a good reason not to. How do you intend to help a person if you don't believe them? One thing I do know for sure, not everyone is here to help.

Another red herring. This has nothing to do with intention and it's sleazy of you to passive-aggressively allude to negative intentions in others. The crux of the matter - how can you help a person if you're not addressing the core of the issue? If you have diabetes and I give you advice on psoriasis it's not really going to help anything or demonstrate that I even care enough to pay attention to what's ailing you. Sure, some general health advice overall might help, but that's just it, it's general - get enough rest, eat right, exercise regulary.

So let's not kid ourselves - if these people are not INFPs then talking about how to deal with INFPs isn't relevant to the discussion.

For INFPs to act like this - to be vicious, victimizing, back-stabbing gossips in denial, all of them, and for none of them to call each other out on the moral infractions they're committing - frankly, it sounds near impossible. Like it's been already mentioned in thread - if an INFP is on the rampage, it's an all-out frontal assault, loud and in the open. Nothing hidden, no secrets, no strategy - just a march on TRUTH and the truth bring brought into the light.

A group of INFPs on a covert mission, unified - sometimes I wish that could happen! :laugh:
 

Eluded_One

Building muscle memory in my brain
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Another red herring. This has nothing to do with intention and it's sleazy of you to passive-aggressively allude to negative intentions in others. The crux of the matter - how can you help a person if you're not addressing the core of the issue? If you have diabetes and I give you advice on psoriasis it's not really going to help anything or demonstrate that I even care enough to pay attention to what's ailing you. Sure, some general health advice overall might help, but that's just it, it's general - get enough rest, eat right, exercise regulary.

So let's not kid ourselves - if these people are not INFPs then talking about how to deal with INFPs isn't relevant to the discussion

Red Herring: You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

I'm also sleazy and passive-aggressive, or at least what I say is. In my defense, if the intentions were all that positive from others, I don't think the OP had to defend herself on many accounts. Do you have anything else negative to project towards me?

The core issue happens to be about the OP's problem with said INFP's and how to deal with them, not the authenticity of their type. So what about those Red Herring's again?

Your analogy is to make diagnosis to a disease, but who is qualified to diagnosis this disease? Maybe a trained professional, someone who is qualified to fix the condition, as it's a physical condition. Perhaps a doctor? Are you comparing yourself to such authority? I guess they're just giving out MBTI licenses away! "A License to Type"!

For INFPs to act like this - to be vicious, victimizing, back-stabbing gossips in denial, all of them, and for none of them to call each other out on the moral infractions they're committing - frankly, it sounds near impossible. Like it's been already mentioned in thread - if an INFP is on the rampage, it's an all-out frontal assault, loud and in the open. Nothing hidden, no secrets, no strategy - just a march on TRUTH and the truth bring brought into the light.

A group of INFPs on a covert mission, unified - sometimes I wish that could happen! :laugh:

Near impossible... maybe in a galaxy far far away... where INFP's are constructed by faerie dust and rainbow juice.

I don't think our conversation is going anywhere, it's been derailed since you replied to my post, you can go ahead and have the last say.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
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so/sp
Guys lets not do this here. We've derailed enough. Let's discuss the problem and forget about the type stuff, distracting as it is.

Start another thread about INFP issues with denial (or lack thereof) if you want. :newwink:
 

Etrielle

New member
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Apr 25, 2015
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10
Okay, thank you for those who actually gave advice on the problem. For those who digressed into whether or not the actual Meyers-Briggs test is accurate or not, maybe you should use your energy to come up with a more accurate test than the original since you are so confident it is wrong.

A special thanks to the INTJs and INTPs who gave objective advice here. Though, I did learn something very valuable that has actually helped me to better understand the INFP from the INFPs themselves. People who strongly identify with being an INFP, like my relations, feel very strongly that all INFPs are incapable of digressing into manipulative behavior, and the worst they believe themselves capable of is being whiny and moody. So, ever attempting to tell an INFP that you didn't like their manipulative behavior is pointless and waste of time since they are convinced it is not possible for them to ever go there, and it must be the accuser that has it wrong, no matter what. Got it. I'm not one to waste energy on a hopeless cause. I will just spend my energy giving a lot of extra love to the people the INFPs are annoyed with, and do my best to have the courage to walk away when they try to get validation from me.

Thanks. I learned a lot.
 

lkjhgfdsa

Permabanned
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Mar 1, 2015
Messages
28
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EXXX
Nothing like infp infps R usually the ones who say nothing at all
They always too quiet in their stupid la la land, frail, complete asexual virgins, their very avoidant and antisocial, hate attention
Intps r usually losers, total nerds, and outcasts as well, worse is that they won't even notice you cuz their just plain cold and antisocial
 

PeaceBaby

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Okay, thank you for those who actually gave advice on the problem. For those who digressed into whether or not the actual Meyers-Briggs test is accurate or not, maybe you should use your energy to come up with a more accurate test than the original since you are so confident it is wrong.

A special thanks to the INTJs and INTPs who gave objective advice here. Though, I did learn something very valuable that has actually helped me to better understand the INFP from the INFPs themselves. People who strongly identify with being an INFP, like my relations, feel very strongly that all INFPs are incapable of digressing into manipulative behavior, and the worst they believe themselves capable of is being whiny and moody. So, ever attempting to tell an INFP that you didn't like their manipulative behavior is pointless and waste of time since they are convinced it is not possible for them to ever go there, and it must be the accuser that has it wrong, no matter what. Got it. I'm not one to waste energy on a hopeless cause. I will just spend my energy giving a lot of extra love to the people the INFPs are annoyed with, and do my best to have the courage to walk away when they try to get validation from me.

Thanks. I learned a lot.

Unfortunately for you, I fear you've learned very little. You've confirmed some INFJ stereotypes too. You are looking OUT to the outside world / to other people as the problem (the Fe and Te defaults) rather than looking at yourself and applying Fe inward on your Ni framework. With your auxiliary function being Fe, you cannot really see that the standards you apply to others are not applied in any way consistently to yourself. And you'll project onto me now that I am unkind and difficult - whatever, I'm used to it, I can weather your protests, that's not important here. What is important is that your family needs your love, not your evaluation of everyone else as the issue. Can you love everyone whether you agree with them or not? Can you resist judging them and see your judgement as part of what causes division? Can you foster connection, plant seeds of healing rather than singling out other people as either deserving of your regard or not?

INFPs can certainly try to twist things to suit their value system. Ne is supposed to take in all data, not simply data that serves the purposes of Fi, but INFPs who find the outside world an insensitive place can certainly try to retreat from hearing things that feel like personal criticisms. If you can identify what values are at play in the purported INFPs in your life, that will show you the places where you can try to introduce new information for them to consider as well in order to help them update their ways of seeing things. Most INFPs value being a source for good (haven't met one that doesn't), and their value system towards humanity is generally positively positioned because they feel emotions strongly and don't want to induce pain in other people, so if you can genuinely share thoughts with them that do not crush them as individuals or dismiss the good things that they do, you may be able to be helpful. However, you need to know that the Fe way of helping is usually framed poorly for INFP ears. It enhances the desire to shut information out, as it typically is framed as, "This is the right way, and your way is the wrong way; you're not thinking about everyone here kind of stuff", very destructive to INFP. Avoid that if you can. INFPs see Fe as manipulation in the emotional realm of the individual. Fe users can seem manipulative because they use emotion to purpose, to push people one way or another with them. INFPs rarely use emotions that way, like it's against the general value system to do that - INFPs preferably use them as tools to enhance inner awareness and knowledge. INFJs are strategic with emotion; INFPs are not.

I am extending myself a bit further, opening myself to the pain of a negative response in the hopes that something might strike a chord with you. I know the dark side of INFP, and if I so choose, could rip a heart out and expose what I sense about an inner world for all to see. I don't do that because I hold that as a sacred space, and it has nothing to do with denial and everything to do with choosing to try to walk a better path. If you could perceive that inner place, you'd know what I'm talking about, but being INFJ I know you don't see it, and that's just reality, not me trying to be special or anything. You don't account for Fi because it's invisible to you, and that's ok, because you are who you are supposed to be. But in that, realizing there's a data source you can't tap, can you see that you're not questioning your framework? You're not putting your conclusion to rigorous test? You are short-cutting your process. You really are.

The way I see it, you interacting with your family in the manner you've concluded here is going to foment discord, enhance animosity and alienate the family further. I think you should reconsider. I do wish you good luck and send you helpful healing thoughts to that end.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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Hate to do this "pinning it on another type"...but this does sound like bad ISFJ behavior.

Bad INFP behavior is just very different. Plus, having that many INFPs in such close proximity is highly unlikley unless you're in, like, a used book store or something.

Edit: I see the OP is bent on seeing these people as INFP. Okay then, have fun not understanding people.
 

OrangeAppled

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Okay, thank you for those who actually gave advice on the problem. For those who digressed into whether or not the actual Meyers-Briggs test is accurate or not, maybe you should use your energy to come up with a more accurate test than the original since you are so confident it is wrong.

The test is an indicator. That means based on answers someone gives at the time, it indicates the likelihood of a type. It doesnt tell you your type for sure. People frequently mistype by relying on test results only.

People who strongly identify with being an INFP, like my relations, feel very strongly that all INFPs are incapable of digressing into manipulative behavior, and the worst they believe themselves capable of is being whiny and moody.

False. We are simply noting that the patterns of how INFPs act manipulatively are quite different and that these descriptions do not align with how INFPs go bad.

It is possible you are simply using some Fe speak which labels these behaviors via your lens, aka some projection is involved, and that is why we dont recognize bad INFPs in these descriptions.

Frankly, I wish I had such social power. As noted though, INFP manipulation is characteristically done via witholding. Its lack of response. Instead of affecting others covertly, its refusing to be affected, to be moved, to do anything. Its an implosion, like a black hole, and it sucks stuff into it if they get too close.

Unhealthy INFPs struggle to know what is real, so stubborn ideas of "right" tend to be abstract ideals, not opinions of people in a social sphere. An INFP will stubbornly cling to an ideaology, but they're unlikley to go on a social rampage slandering individuals.

When I've been unhealthy emotionally, I tend to think everyone hates me, and I certainly may feel a few individuals are just "evil" and out to get me. But this is also because I will feel victimized by those people and feel they are powerful, so I dont feel able to go toe-to-toe in some social warfare. Instead, I tend to "play dead" so to speak. This IS manipulative when someone needs a response from you, as it is a passive invalidation of them. But that is exactly how the INFP regains power when they feel threatened.

I also have paranoia over what is real, and this is some weird effect of Ne I guess - you cannot drop nagging suspicions of alternate interpretations of reality. What makes the stereotypical INFP seem weak and conflict-avoident (as opposed to covertly manipulating) is the struggle to commit to a perspective and act with it. The typical response is to devalue something mentally until it no longer requires action from you (and the only thing you mentioned that vaguely resembles this is the young teenager rudely not bothering to call to cancel her dance practice).

Inferior Te meltdowns involve INFPs going on a rampage where they openly berate someone or something with a laundry list of everything that angers them. Sure, some of it may contain shaming that emotionally manipulative and it may be outright violent, but its not covert social maneuvering. Instead, it will be very raw and very open in terms of motive, in such a way that the INFP ends up looking bad, even if what they say is valid. Naomi Quenk's "Was That Really Me?" is a book which details how types have meltdowns, basically, and I reccommend it if you want to identify people when they act out of their inferior. For IFPs, this means aggressive criticism, judgments of incompetence, and precipitous action. All of this is unusual aggressivness, but it's NOT subtle or covert enough to be manipulative, because it's more "in your face". So you have extremes of withdrawl or becoming aggressive for INFPs, but generally not smoothly manipulating people into holding ideas about others or operating in such a covert way. I add the caveat of "generally" because its not a matter of what is possible, but of what is typical, aka, what characterizes someone (or a type), hence suspicion over these individuals ALL appearing to be major exceptions to their supposed type.

Its not because I or other INFPs are above such manipulation, but I know that I just dont have a sure enough grasp of a singular reality and the social structures therein to manipulate it. It's a weakness too because some of that is positive skill, as far as creating positive dynamics in a group and promoting others with "gossip" (using that term more broadly).

Whereas Si-dominant types seem to have a very sure grasp of what is real, or rather, their very ego is based on building some sure sense of it, and even as it is highly subjective, the Je part of their mentality aids them in structuring reality to match it. This structuring obviously happens a lot in the social realm for ISFJs, and it can be positive too, but other times, manipulative.

I think Im sensitive to the OP and having it attributed to INFPs because some of that has been done to me, mainly by ISFJs. I had my character pegged a certain way since childhood and was guilted and shamed into believing it, but I also had those same SFJs aggressively defend me when I didnt deserve it (ie like the mother getting mad at the director for reprimanding the teenager who deserved it).


So, ever attempting to tell an INFP that you didn't like their manipulative behavior is pointless and waste of time since they are convinced it is not possible for them to ever go there, and it must be the accuser that has it wrong, no matter what.

That is a poor way to approach a conflict with anyone, regardless of type. If you want to solve a problem, then you focus on resolution, not pointing the finger and playing victim yourself.
 

aanule

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
190
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ENFP
Okay, thank you for those who actually gave advice on the problem. For those who digressed into whether or not the actual Meyers-Briggs test is accurate or not, maybe you should use your energy to come up with a more accurate test than the original since you are so confident it is wrong.

A special thanks to the INTJs and INTPs who gave objective advice here. Though, I did learn something very valuable that has actually helped me to better understand the INFP from the INFPs themselves. People who strongly identify with being an INFP, like my relations, feel very strongly that all INFPs are incapable of digressing into manipulative behavior, and the worst they believe themselves capable of is being whiny and moody. So, ever attempting to tell an INFP that you didn't like their manipulative behavior is pointless and waste of time since they are convinced it is not possible for them to ever go there, and it must be the accuser that has it wrong, no matter what. Got it. I'm not one to waste energy on a hopeless cause. I will just spend my energy giving a lot of extra love to the people the INFPs are annoyed with, and do my best to have the courage to walk away when they try to get validation from me.

Thanks. I learned a lot.

How passive aggressive of you. :dry:
 
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