enneagram 7 or 3 <- type me!

[Again_Chloe]

so.. over the yrs i think i ve been overthinking this problem to be objective no... so i cant analyse it anymore.

cann someone help me and ask me relevant questions

a bit 3 vs 7 data:

i am 100% underachiever - i usually just fake i want success if there's big pressure but i never really wanted it. when i flunked a yr in university, when i was younger, my 1st reaction was that i am happy so i dont have to suffer being bored while studying (i was in medical school and 5-6 hrs of studying each day next to classes/labs was about 10 x more than i am willing to invest in a diploma)

pro 3:
i did care when younger what ppl think about my success, i care now as well but only in extreme cases (my family is very unsupportive and i am 28 and still not done with MSc so i am quite behind)


my main motivation is to give the least possible effort to get the most out of stuff, so i always view it this way: how can i invest so little that it doesnt hurt, that i dont suffer in any way, yet get by. So i basically manipulate situations, i am not workaholic. i will work just to dream in my mind about moments when i am buying myself time away from work. it is extreme. actually this makes me think 7 the most because (unhealthy) tendency i have is to just count everything i do and think "now i can stop this is enough effort one needs to put into life so i can go back to comfort and pleasure"

- again, when under EXTREME stress i can become 3-like and trying to make Master Plan of Great Success. it can last few hrs, maximum few days.

but MOST of the times on my mind is how i can just avoid giving up on any pleasure. I hate the idea of limiting myself in any way. Readign Riso and Hudson yesterday made me think 7 is so much like me, but

so confusing.


i was skeptical that tritype thing (other than in direction of errors) really exists, but if it does than maybe 738? (i think i have 8 tendencies sometimes but also anxious like 6 so dno about the wings. in confrontations i am very direct and rarely back off but i can be anxious which i believe w8 wouldnt be !?!)


Help!

 

[five sounds]

7

Would you be ok to be happy and unsuccessful in te eyes of the world, or do you have a hard time separating those two concepts?

I don't know a ton about 3, but I know enough about being a 7. I care what people think of me. I lived years of my life trying to be what I thought I should be based on everyone else. I was even achiever-y in school somewhat even though I still basically refused to put on any effort.

Maybe I'm just super biased and projecting, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[Again_Chloe]

7

Would you be ok to be happy and unsuccessful in te eyes of the world, or do you have a hard time separating those two concepts?

that is a broad question and i have trouble separating those 2 because happiness in my case includes: having SO/husband, kids, life you know.. and i think that's success according to the 'world' values.

so the question is who you ask what is success, for me successful person is the one that managed to be happy. you cant really be happy if you're unable to work, to sustain yourself.

so if you mean will i be happy if i FAILED to make my life productful - i will!

(i am viewing most of this from a perspective of someone who has serious medical condition so i am half functional. )

I don't know a ton about 3, but I know enough about being a 7. I care what people think of me. I lived years of my life trying to be what I thought I should be based on everyone else. I was even achiever-y in school somewhat even though I still basically refused to put on any effort.

Maybe I'm just super biased and projecting, but that's my 2 cents.

yeah that's sounds like me a lot.
i was achiever-y in school just because it was easy, if i see i can do it i wont do it.

thanks for insight.

its hard for me to accept 7ness because i was introduced to enneagram by very forcefull INFJ 3 (she claims so) who told me i am a 3, and she was so J-ish and sure of herself that i never questioned it because i thought she must know, she wrote a book on Enneagram

they also portray 7s as not caring at all what ppl think and lookin at my 7 friends i see they do - actually all friends that had plastic operation i kno are SEVENS!! YEP

As well my 7 friend cares more about updating her status on FB w pic and status 'i am at the opera' than enjoying the opera. she is obsessed w the image she projects on FB

and she has zero other 3s tendencies... shee is classical 7, selfish a lot... just not 3.

 

[Again_Chloe]

i am also far from positive-only person. that made me think i couldnt possibly be a 7.
i am the one who will point out problems and call out on people. confront problems (maybe not mine (!) but i do always go to the core about problems and always digg deeper.. not sure if i directlyy in theory avoid pain)



my most avoidance of pain is by;
- not limiting myself in anything. i just "dont believe in a free will and so i think you should go by the maximum pleasure and whatever happens will happen" , i mean.. i really dont believe if i am not achievery boout something that it is MY FAULT, or responsibility because i think you shouldnt suffer so if something makes me suffer must be wrong path.



-other avoidance is just by forgetting of the real issues that trouble me, like i laugh and joke a lot but that's mostly in front of ppl, inside i am always aware of what is bugging me.

 

[Again_Chloe]

need to explain what i think there's no free will

Actually, i dont even realize who was the idiot to invent that idea of the free will I know in the current zeitgeist my views are mocked, but just going logically I dont see that free will could exist.

Example, okay, if i am enneagram 7, so i avoid pain more than others. so i indulge more than other [girls] in my appetites, so i weight more than average/than i should... so typical 'advice' would be in enneagram fashion something spiritual/psychological like that i need to realize that i dont need so much food or that i dont need to fill each need and urge i have.
well, that's common sense.
but if i am really able to do that - i would already be doing it. I am physical being, biological, and nothing else. No higher spirit involved, no 12 steps programme. so whatever i can do i am already doing.
you cant measure someones urges and will bc will is not an absolute measure, it has to be compared towards the other direction.. so will to lose weight has to be compared twds your biological urge to eat or to be lazy. and you cant measure the latter 2 so its veery obvious that those who can - do it. and those who cant - dont do it.
then someone proves he can do it, well, its because he could do it. he didnt prove that those who didnt do it can also do it.

so i think this ideology probably doesnt serve me but i cant change my brain chemistry. if i am ADHD, ie EP type, or 7 or however we will call it, i am probably "low dopamine " person. Its like having a diabetes.

so i just conclude that i shouldnt limit myself in anything end i search for more pleasant solutions to the problems. maybe its slower...

so this 7 thing rocked me to the core because it suggests my views are not really 'how it is'. i believed it is like this for everybody. i dont really believe in 'effort' and not doing an 'effort'
i think whoever hasnt committed suicide is actually doing his best. and those who killed themselves also did the best they can.

 

[Again_Chloe]

yeah. i am still thinking about this.
i also thought i cant be 7 because i think so much, like analyze. i had idea 7s dont really decipher stuff as much more like surface.. but i figured i try to analyze myself SO MUCH but i always search for the outside data, like someones opinion or some theory to give me the answers, people tell me often why i ask them stuff that only i can answer... so i always rely on outside data and i am always like '1 googling away from THAT important information that is THE MISSING PUZZLE' - and yet probably i should rely on myself more for answers.
then i prefer just getting more and more information and building structure so i can avoid coming to conclusion that doesnt have completely outside confirmation. I just dont have much trust in inside "material".

is this linked to enneagram type, i'd say it is.. but i dno, maybe everyone is like this

 

[00c]

7 is more Ne and 3 is more Ni; you're 7. Your thoughts are all over the place and that's hardly characteristic of Ni which is perhaps what can be considered the driving focused force of a 3's "ambition".

 

[HongDou]

7 is more Ne and 3 is more Ni; you're 7. Your thoughts are all over the place and that's hardly characteristic of Ni which is perhaps what can be considered the driving focused force of a 3's "ambition".

I agree 7 is a very ENxP type but there are plenty of ENxP 3s as well (especially ENTP). 7 is also very common among ESxP and 3 isn't that rare in ESxJs either. Trying to come to a definitive E-type based on JCF doesn't really work out that well. The only strong connection I see between the two theories is 2 and Fe.

FWIW, the OP feels more 7 to me.

 

[Again_Chloe]

thanks for answers.

7 is more Ne and 3 is more Ni; you're 7. Your thoughts are all over the place and that's hardly characteristic of Ni which is perhaps what can be considered the driving focused force of a 3's "ambition".

I am not sure you can correlate functions and enneagram. I mean, yes, 3s have more Jness tendencies and i score 95-100% on P.
I score like this: 93% E 95% N 60% F 95% P

also functions test was Ne-Se-Fi--Fe-Ni-Ti-Te-Si

Enneagram test was 7, 8, 3.. and sx/sp or sx/so, cant remember.

I agree 7 is a very ENxP type but there are plenty of ENxP 3s as well (especially ENTP). 7 is also very common among ESxP and 3 isn't that rare in ESxJs either. Trying to come to a definitive E-type based on JCF doesn't really work out that well. The only strong connection I see between the two theories is 2 and Fe.

FWIW, the OP feels more 7 to me.

thanks. how do you approach problems? i am confused bc i doont see myself, and most others dont, as very positive. in fact, i quite confront issues. but i realized today that i choose more pleasant ones to confront, like i will confront theoretical issue - like some magic cure for future, without effort, and not in the here and now.
so i am nto sure how much i really deal w the most important problems.
i mean, i go very deep in trying to heal my life. i really do. and i am proud of myself for that. but i always thought 7s are those that run away from the truth... hm

 

[00c]

I agree 7 is a very ENxP type but there are plenty of ENxP 3s as well (especially ENTP). 7 is also very common among ESxP and 3 isn't that rare in ESxJs either. Trying to come to a definitive E-type based on JCF doesn't really work out that well. The only strong connection I see between the two theories is 2 and Fe.

FWIW, the OP feels more 7 to me.

ENTP statistically make the least amount of money and if I could find some enneagram statistics, I'm sure 3's would be among the highest, so there's something off there.
I'm sure you can definitely find more correlation between functions and enneagram types if examined more closely.

 

[five sounds]

thanks for answers.




I am not sure you can correlate functions and enneagram. I mean, yes, 3s have more Jness tendencies and i score 95-100% on P.
I score like this: 93% E 95% N 60% F 95% P

also functions test was Ne-Se-Fi--Fe-Ni-Ti-Te-Si

Enneagram test was 7, 8, 3.. and sx/sp or sx/so, cant remember.



thanks. how do you approach problems? i am confused bc i doont see myself, and most others dont, as very positive. in fact, i quite confront issues. but i realized today that i choose more pleasant ones to confront, like i will confront theoretical issue - like some magic cure for future, without effort, and not in the here and now.
so i am nto sure how much i really deal w the most important problems.
i mean, i go very deep in trying to heal my life. i really do. and i am proud of myself for that. but i always thought 7s are those that run away from the truth... hm

7 3 8? Sounds like you got yourself a tritype.

 

[Again_Chloe]

7 3 8? Sounds like you got yourself a tritype.

I actually scored 7>8>3, and 7 and 8 were closer than 3... but I do think I am more a 3 than 8, so 738 fits.
Only way to explain why I have quite a lot of 3 stuff but much more 7. Or I could maybe be laziest 3 in Enneagram history.

 

[Again_Chloe]

i read this and it is so spot on that it is painful

another + 7 thing is that advices for growth for 7 fit much more in my problematic areas, and are much harder to follow

Many entranced Sevens have problems with completion. The word "execution" sounds less like it means finishing what you start and more like a form of death. They tend to be strong on initiating action and weaker on follow-through. When defensive, they adopt what's called an "as if frame," where the Seven makes up positive fantasies about the future and pretends they are reality. "It's as if this wonderful adventure I'm planning is already happening."

Difficult present situations are sometimes avoided this way. A Seven can fantasize so much about a problem that they almost begin to believe they have solved it in reality. This eliminates the need to put themselves on the line, to struggle, to risk failure or have their actions judged. Most entranced Sevens have fears about their adequacy and tend to compare themselves with others. A Seven can feel inferior to someone they admire and then defensively act superior towards someone else to even the balance.

[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION], how does your negativity/depressions look like? are you the one to point out problems in your life and your friends' life or yu are never first to do so?
because i am, very action oriented in terms of solving issues, i am very outspoken about what is WRONG around me, calling people out on their shit. and that's not 7 thing? i do have a positive spin on everything but i never viewed myself as positive. i know i am very joyful and always in the good mood - but it can look like that from outside. i can have terrible shit going on but i will forget about it and crack jokes, but with very private friends who know my biggest problems i wont be like that because they know when i am in pain and i cant run away. they are like my mirror.

 

[senza tema]

i read this and it is so spot on that it is painful

another + 7 thing is that advices for growth for 7 fit much more in my problematic areas, and are much harder to follow

Many entranced Sevens have problems with completion. The word "execution" sounds less like it means finishing what you start and more like a form of death. They tend to be strong on initiating action and weaker on follow-through. When defensive, they adopt what's called an "as if frame," where the Seven makes up positive fantasies about the future and pretends they are reality. "It's as if this wonderful adventure I'm planning is already happening."

Difficult present situations are sometimes avoided this way. A Seven can fantasize so much about a problem that they almost begin to believe they have solved it in reality. This eliminates the need to put themselves on the line, to struggle, to risk failure or have their actions judged. Most entranced Sevens have fears about their adequacy and tend to compare themselves with others. A Seven can feel inferior to someone they admire and then defensively act superior towards someone else to even the balance.

This is wonderful. Where did you find it?

 

[Again_Chloe]

it's on tom condon site. he has really good way of describing types.

i remember 4 yrs ago, or so, i watched his 5,6,7 video on yt and i was convinced then i am a 3 and i was like 'this is so spot on i am like that as well', haha, i didnt know i am thinking type.

btw, how do you mean 'wonderful', you like unhealthy 7s?

 

[Again_Chloe]

ENTP statistically make the least amount of money and if I could find some enneagram statistics, I'm sure 3's would be among the highest, so there's something off there.
I'm sure you can definitely find more correlation between functions and enneagram types if examined more closely.

ENTP make the least amount of money? I dont trust that stats, can you share?
stats i've seen said INFPs made the least money.
ENTPs were above average, i think even top 5

 

[senza tema]

it's on tom condon site. he has really good way of describing types.

i remember 4 yrs ago, or so, i watched his 5,6,7 video on yt and i was convinced then i am a 3 and i was like 'this is so spot on i am like that as well', haha, i didnt know i am thinking type.

btw, how do you mean 'wonderful', you like unhealthy 7s?

Thanks.

By 'wonderful,' I mean that the description seems very perceptive to me ... but yeah, I kinda have this fatal attraction to unhealthy 7s.

 

[Again_Chloe]

Thanks.

By 'wonderful,' I mean that the description seems very perceptive to me ... but yeah, I kinda have this fatal attraction to unhealthy 7s.

i know

yeah, i have crazy attraction to 7s as well, 8s too. i mean, usually ExTP guys. sometimes ENFP guys. and they are usually 7s and 8s

my last bf is ENFP 4w3.. we get along very well now but i wouldnt really want to repeat relationship with not-very-healthy 4.

my mom is ISTJ and a 4w3 (she is not a 3!), weird combo. her w3 is strong and connnction to 1 and 2, but she is not 1 for sure, far from it.

 

[five sounds]

i read this and it is so spot on that it is painful

another + 7 thing is that advices for growth for 7 fit much more in my problematic areas, and are much harder to follow

Many entranced Sevens have problems with completion. The word "execution" sounds less like it means finishing what you start and more like a form of death. They tend to be strong on initiating action and weaker on follow-through. When defensive, they adopt what's called an "as if frame," where the Seven makes up positive fantasies about the future and pretends they are reality. "It's as if this wonderful adventure I'm planning is already happening."

Difficult present situations are sometimes avoided this way. A Seven can fantasize so much about a problem that they almost begin to believe they have solved it in reality. This eliminates the need to put themselves on the line, to struggle, to risk failure or have their actions judged. Most entranced Sevens have fears about their adequacy and tend to compare themselves with others. A Seven can feel inferior to someone they admire and then defensively act superior towards someone else to even the balance.

[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION], how does your negativity/depressions look like? are you the one to point out problems in your life and your friends' life or yu are never first to do so?
because i am, very action oriented in terms of solving issues, i am very outspoken about what is WRONG around me, calling people out on their shit. and that's not 7 thing? i do have a positive spin on everything but i never viewed myself as positive. i know i am very joyful and always in the good mood - but it can look like that from outside. i can have terrible shit going on but i will forget about it and crack jokes, but with very private friends who know my biggest problems i wont be like that because they know when i am in pain and i cant run away. they are like my mirror.

Yeah I am very quick to point out problems when they're in a relationship I'm a part of or I feel some kind of injustice is happening. Other than that, I usually don't call people on shit. But you seem to be a different kind of 7. I'm 7w6 and with my 2 and 9 fixes, I sometimes don't like to make waves. But with close friends, I am very open and won't shy away from spilling the depths of what's up. I think going along with that 7description you found, my calling shit out, especially in relationships is a way that I try to avoid future failure and pain. By tackling the problem at it's first sign and addressing it bluntly, I feel like I'm saving us from even bigger problems down the road. This gives me a sense of urgency to address and resolve (which may also be a part of my particular brand if 7 - my tritype is referred to as the Peacemaker and I really do hate when things are unresolved).

 

[00c]

ENTP make the least amount of money? I dont trust that stats, can you share?
stats i've seen said INFPs made the least money.
ENTPs were above average, i think even top 5

Among the least educated too.
Demographics from The Personality Questionnaire
This Is How Much Money You’ll Make Based on Your Personality | TIME.com