I need help!

[teothebest]

I have taken various online personality test in order to figure out to which MBTI type I belong to, but I always get stuck between INTJ and INTP, and I can't really come up with a definitive conclusion.
I've noticed many people having troubles determining their last dichotomy, still I want to ask for myself

to help you helping me, I'll write a list of thing that make me lean more toward INTJ and a list that leads me more toward INTP.
just a disclaimer: I am not knowledgeable about how I should classificate this traits actually, so I'll just follow my rough ideas

supposedly INTJ characteristics

1)I am often very strict when it comes to time table and habits, even though I'd like to go for a change once in a while.
2) I tend to judge people very easily, creating my own schemes about them, and about what use I could make of them. in fact, most of the interactions I have with other people, even as friend, are based on how useful they could eventually turn out depending on my goals. I am quick to dismiss someone if I feel like he/she's burdening me.
3) I have strong ideals such has truth, consistency,science, progress, and independency, and I prize them a lot, thus loathing those who don't share my opinions on said topics.
4) I often make plans and plot, even actions that may hurt somebody else, to achieve my personal goals, which are the most important thing for me.
5)I like strategy games and planning ahead with a large advance.
6)I refuse acknowledging everything that is illogical, such as feelings, religions, emotions love and such. I've always been proud of myself for not being weak to such things, easily devoiding them.
7) I am very competitive and I want to achieve my goals no matter what.
8) I have high expectations for both myself and the others, often imposing myself and others unreachable standards.
9) I have good leader skills, since I'm able to put many people to work and have them following my guidance, as long as I prove myself smarter than them.

supposedly INTP characteristics:
1) I like speaking and teaching things to people I'm close to, to show off my knowledges and have the chance to speak about them, although most of the times my interlocutors are depressingly not able to keep up with me. still, I take great pleasure out of the situations in which my skills are flat-out better than my interlocutor, as a form of self-rewarding.
2)I have very good linguistic skills, since I have a very high level of mastery of my native language (which is not English) and an overall good level at English. moreover, I'm studying two more languages by myself (japanese and German)
3)I like word-plays, puns and jokes, as long as they make fun out of others. I consider "not malicious" jokes boring, therefore I always take jokes that address me as something personal.
4) even though I don't empathize with them, I can read people like nothing, understanding their temper and using it for my own purposes.
5)I hate maths and overly applicative subjects in general, since I think computers should handle those things, not humans.
6) I don't have a huge ego. I know my limits, and I know that I'm not perfect, and I have little problems dealing with this.
7)I'm not completely inable in social situations. even though I don't feel the need for social or love interactions at all (I could go without them very easily), I enjoy meeting with people and sharing opinoins on relevant matters from time to time.
8) even though I prefer carefull planning, I can improvise well, and this makes me such a good liar
9) I prize knowledge for its intrinsic value, even though I strive to make the most use of it whenever it is possible.
10) I am quite lazy. really lazy. this doesn't mean that I won't get the job done, it's just that I will take a lot of time to do it, and not because I am slow, rather because I get bored very easily if something does not catch my interest.
11) at times, I could seem clumsy, dumb or careless, but this is generally just a social disguise not to be noticed and to mingle in the crowd. deep down I am always analyzing. moreover, if people underrate you, it will be easier to approach them and they will expect less plottings from you
still, I struggle keeping up this mask since I always feel like showing off my cleverness :\


my best apologies for writing such a long papyrus of mostly redudnant things (yeah, I reckon it myself too ), and for not speaking a top-notch English (not a native and not so eager to check every single sentence twice ).
if you feel like you need to ask me anything in order to make a clearer picture, feel free to do so.
thank you in advance =D

 

[PocketFullOf]

Are you absolutely sure you're an Introvert?

 

[teothebest]

sure as hell. I mean, most of the time I get 100% I could you help me out with the J/P dichotomy please

 

[BadOctopus]

If you weren't so sure that you're an introvert, I would wonder if perhaps you weren't an ENTJ.

I'm an INTJ, and I can tell you right now, I have no interest in being competitive. That would imply that I desire to prove my competence to my peers, and I really couldn't care less what people think of me.

Also, I hate lying. And puns. More or less equally.

 

[robowolf]

First part:

Te... Te everywhere...

Second part:

2) In my experience INTJs are better at communicating their ideas to others (although both INTJs and INTPs usually have a very good vocabulary), mainly because they know how to get to the point without going off on a thousand tangents and then forgetting what they wanted to say.

3) Taking things personally is a stereotypical Fi thing (any type could do it though).

4) You mean, like, you see someone and you instinctively know what they're feeling? Because that could be Ni, while seeing things or people as useful tools that can help you reach a goal is Te.

5) INTPs are Ti-Ne, so they like abstract concepts and want to know how things work for the sake of understanding. Maths should appeal to them (even though a lot of them hate it).

6) INTJs are known for their pragmatism and realism. They know what they know and can be arrogant, but they also know that their knowledge has limits. They're not narcissists (*cough*).

7) INTPs don't really care about whether or not what they're sharing is relevant, as long as it's interesting and intellectually stimulating. Also, inferior Fe might make them more socially awkward than INTJs.

9) Well, your enneatype is 5, that's why you seek knowledge.
Ti is happy when it has access to interesting info (useful or not), Te is happy when it can use what it has learnt in a practical way to achieve a goal. Then of course everyone likes interesting stuff and using their knowledge to accomplish something, but which one do you prefer?

10) So, laziness doesn't stop you?

You said you're sure you're an introvert, so I think you're INTJ.
You seem to use Te a lot.

 

[Surr]

How heavily have you been N? I see little pointing towards intuition, being good at strategy games and being fascinated by theoretical concepts is not a trait exclusive to N-people and the tests score high on N much easier than S, mostly because people simply don't connect to the "boring" general feeling of being a sensor those tests like to create, which are completely false. Also, you seem very in tune with your surroundings and pay attention to the people around you, you seem to be constantly evaluating others and putting them on a scale depending on how they perform compared to you. You say you have high expectations, how detailed are these expectations? But yeah, if you weren't so sure of the introversion I could maybe type you ENTJ or ENTP, hell, even ESTP if I look at the answers long enough.

 

[teothebest]

[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION]: I don't see why you seem all so convinced I am an E. I spend like all my time alone and I'm really shy with strangers, therefore that makes no sense to me.
moreover, you seem to be missing the point in my will of confronting others: usually, I don't seek someone to prove my skills to, rather to prove the others who's on top and who's not I don't really care if people see me as ruthless, a loner, a bast*rd, a weirdo or whatever, as long as they acknowledge that I am smarter than them.
[MENTION=19890]BL4CKW0LPH[/MENTION]

thank you, your review was quite enlighting
so, to answer your questions:

4) I am good at understanding people's feeling and what their personality (I could easily tag most of the people I know with their MBTI type, if only I understood its deeper mechanics), and since most people rely more on feelings that on rational thought to make decisions, this lets me handle F types more easily (the other ones can be dispatched with logic, which I don't lack anyway). knowing them means making a better use of them, don't you agree?

7) well, I do tend to share information I deem relevant, the thing that doesn't really matter to me is with whom I share said information, since nobody would understand it anyway and I need to talk about my inner theories in order to make order into my brain.

8) that's hard to say. I have quite a few interest and naming the reason I'm interested in all of them seems hard, but I'll try describing you what I've been into lately so that maybe you could make your answert out of it:
I am studying chemistry, even though I could have chosen other paths, because I'm honestly interested in science, and because chemistry is to me the most useful and practical science (it is called the queen, after all), and it can fetch you a well-paid job, unlike some other more theoretical sciences (Ugh*physics*)
in addition, since I am planning on moving abroad (here researchers are not paid well enough if not unemplyed altogether), I am studying three languages:
English (blatantly obvious why), German (say hello to the country of most chemical industries) and Japanese (because I like anime and.... well, I like it ;D)
as for more humanistic branches of knowledge, like history or politics, I like them because they give me a deeper insight in today's reality, allowing me to make better oredictions about the future, along with getting the reason behind many facts that would otherwise go unexplained.
all in all, I always appreciate getting new info, since I almost always find a use for it anyway.

10)well, I am not the typical slacker. I just tend to procrastinate as much as I can the errands I deem boring or too easy, but in the end I always manage to do everything on time, since I hate being late. as I always say: "I am never late nor in advance, just on time"
on the other hand, if something fires me up, I could spend the whole night up to do it, even if it wasn't meant to be completed by the following day.

well, this is it. yeah, T is the strongest of my four dichomoty, in fact I almost always get more than 90%
if I had to list them by decreasing value, they would be
T
I
N
P/J (of which I am unsure about)
[MENTION=23336]Surr[/MENTION]

about 60%, and in all the tests I've taken that worked just fine. I mean, I've forced some people to take the test to verify its accuracy and reliability, and I don't behave like those who I identified as S, not at all.
yes, that's true. I always seem off or lost in my thoughts, but I always notice changes and details, that I use to make reasoning, and yes, I do judge people a lot, although most often not comparing them to ma, but comparing them to my expectations about them.
and by expectations, I don't mean what I actually expect them to do, rather what I think they could do for me.
for instance, let's say I have a very precise friend who always takes note in class. his/ her value would depend on how good he/she is at taking notes and on how willing he is to share them with me. if he doesn't match these requirements, well, he could as well be the biggest genius ever but he'd still be utterly useless.
thus, my expectations I talked about earlier are obviously unmatched most of the time, since I put too high targets to people. that's why I almost always feel disappointed by people, and even by myself because I know I could do more.

forgive my huge post guys but I felt like answering you all

 

[robowolf]

You're very welcome!

knowing them means making a better use of them, don't you agree?

I do.

well, I do tend to share information I deem relevant, the thing that doesn't really matter to me is with whom I share said information, since nobody would understand it anyway and I need to talk about my inner theories in order to make order into my brain.

Talking about inner theories as in thinking out loud? Because
"An example of Outward Thinking (Te) is thinking out loud, or by writing facts down on paper (etc.)"

here researchers are not paid well enough if not unemployed altogether

Ugh, yeah. But who needs scientists when we have good soccer players?

I am studying three languages:
English (blatantly obvious why), German (say hello to the country of most chemical industries) and Japanese (because I like anime and.... well, I like it ;D)
as for more humanistic branches of knowledge, like history or politics, I like them because they give me a deeper insight in today's reality, allowing me to make better oredictions about the future, along with getting the reason behind many facts that would otherwise go unexplained.

You seem focused and determined, and you study things that are useful/will be useful/you like. Te>Ti.

well, I am not the typical slacker. I just tend to procrastinate as much as I can the errands I deem boring or too easy, but in the end I always manage to do everything on time, since I hate being late. as I always say: "I am never late nor in advance, just on time"

According to dichotomy tests (e.g. Humanmetrics) that's a J trait.

I mean, I've forced some people to take the test to verify its accuracy and reliability

and yes, I do judge people a lot, although most often not comparing them to ma, but comparing them to my expectations about them.
and by expectations, I don't mean what I actually expect them to do, rather what I think they could do for me. for instance, let's say I have a very precise friend who always takes note in class. his/ her value would depend on how good he/she is at taking notes and on how willing he is to share them with me. if he doesn't match these requirements, well, he could as well be the biggest genius ever but he'd still be utterly useless.

lol, who are you, the poster boy for Te?

Also, you can try this test and see what your preferred functions are.
It would be interesting to know how much Ni you have.

 

[teothebest]

wait, are you Italian? then what's the point in asking me in English? LOL
as I am not completely sure though, I will reply in English nevertheless.

Talking about inner theories as in thinking out loud? Because
"An example of Outward Thinking (Te) is thinking out loud, or by writing facts down on paper (etc.)"

exactly. furthermore, I always write down my thoughts in order to remember them, so I guess that's it.

Ugh, yeah. But who needs scientists when we have good soccer players?

and don't forget about Silvio's wh*res ;D, those girls get quite a lot of money! along with Silvio and his fellows themselves, of course.

lol, who are you, the poster boy for Te?

Also, you can try this test and see what your preferred functions are.
It would be interesting to know how much Ni you have.

ok, I've done quite a few tests (there's no need to post an italian one, I can handle myself ), and here you are the results

T is my strongest function, with Fe ca. 90-100% and Ti ca. 70-80%
N is my second strongest function, with Ni ca. 60% and Ne ca. 40%
S is my third function, with Si ca. 60% and Se ca. Se ca. 10%
F is my last fuction (what a surprise, I hate F people -.-) with Fi 10% and Fe bordering 0, basically.

the website says I am "unclear". so useful..... at any rate, I trust you are more reliable than a stupid test

well, since we are at it and I never get to talk about such deep matters, I'd like to share a few more thoughts if you don't mind, about my general view of world. maybe that could help out

If I had to describe the world with one world it would be war. war because all animals, us included, are bound to spend their whole life fighting one another to emerge from the dark of mediocrity, to make our way to our righteous place, or even just to make a living.
we just keep pretending we love each other just because we are afraid of chaos and because we want to pretend we are not alone.
I was born in a rather "difficult" family, let's say, and I had had to cope with it since I was a child. I had to be an adult at 6 years old, therefore I had to grow a strong sense of logic and analysing in order not to be crushed by life. I've never relied on anyone to make it, and I made it anyway.
I began thinking about stuff like the meaning of death and life when I all the others we just playing carelessly, as kids are supposed to do.
People like pretending their are good and friendly, but deep inside everyone seeks nothing but his own happiness, even at the cost of others'.
the differences in the way we behave are based solely on what kind of happiness we yearn for.

sorry for making such grief statements, but I think one can make many conclusion out of how somebody else views the world.

 

[BadOctopus]

It seems to be that you are most likely an INTJ. I confess that the reason why I thought you might be an ENTJ is your attitude toward people -- namely, that they are assets that can be read easily and used for your own purposes. Manipulation is a trait that is often ascribed to ENTJs. However, INTJs can be manipulative, too. I've never noticed any manipulative tendencies in myself, but I chalk that up to my total disinterest in involving myself in the lives of others.

But I'd be foolish to believe that I'm the only INTJ who isn't manipulative. We aren't called "masterminds" for nothing.

 

[teothebest]

[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] indeed. maybe our function distribution distribution is slightly different and therefore we have a different view of people. to tell the truth, when I read your post I thought that we couldn't just be the same type ( I thought all INTJs were cynical and sarcastic like myself, and most importantly success-driven), but all in all 16 archetypes are certainly not enough to describe the complexity of human brain.
which is your strongest function?

 

[BadOctopus]

[MENTION=23414]teothebest[/MENTION] Oh, I'm very cynical and sarcastic. I tend to think the worst of people, and I don't trust anybody. I try to tone it down, but it's something I have to work on all the time. Deep down, I actually think I'm not so much a cynic as a frustrated idealist. I'd like to believe that people are good, but it's difficult when they constantly prove how awful they are.

I am success-driven as well, but in a different way than you might think. I work hard to achieve my goals, but they're not the usual goals, like financial security or the validation of others. I care more about maintaining my integrity, meeting my own set of standards, and having a sense of personal fulfillment. That's my version of success.

And yeah, the MBTI archetypes can be very accurate, but they're not infallible. Not "all INTJs" are exactly alike, any more than all ENFPs or any other type.

My dominant function is introverted iNtuition. What's yours?

 

[teothebest]

[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION]
well, then I don't see your point. how could you possibly be cynic and sarcastic if you hate both puns and lies? I mean, those are fundamentals
e.g.
let's say you see a fat woman and you wonder how come she got that fat. if you said something sarcastic like: "hey look at that fatso, she's so big she's gonna be the ninth planet if she keeps getting bigger and bigger!" this statement, besides being ruthless, is both a pun (you liken her to something very big in an unrealistic way) and a lie (it's obvious this is not going to happen).

I distrust people too, and I've given up on believing them since I was a child. bad stuff happened back then and no one but myself helped me, therefore I hold no big ideals that involve people (I do believe in truth, science and other ideals, but none of them infers believing in human beings as such).
oh, I see. as long as you are content with that honestly, I'd rather not be ruled by someone dumber than me, and that means going A LOT up the ladder.
I mean, don't you just hate when you have to follow the rules imposed by those who you misregard, just for the sake of keeping up social appearence?

well, I know this isn't stereotypically correct, but it looks like my main function is Te in the end (not Tellurium ), still I can't really imagine myself as an ENTJ, since I have little to no social interactions. maybe it's just that I've been living in the wrong place (let's say I withstand social constraints from my environment), and given the right chance I could change that way..... no, it does not make much sense. it's just me that I have to be weird even among INTJs XD
speaking of which, I've never met another INTJ in real life (maybe one but I'm still working on confirming that, he could make for a great partner if confirmed, provided that he's interested), and I've never even thought a woman could be so (no offence meant, it's just how the medias depict you women here in my country and the largest part of the western world). so, is it hard to live as a female INTJ?

 

[BadOctopus]

[MENTION=23414]teothebest[/MENTION] I guess I'm more wry than sarcastic. I have a very dry, deadpan humor that tends to catch people off guard, because I come across as a serious person. And while I'm not offended by sarcasm (in fact, I find it hilarious) I generally don't use it to hurt others... unless I'm very angry with them. I may not like people much, but I don't go out of my way to tear apart their self-esteem. That's not so much a result of my basic nature as the way I was brought up. Mama didn't raise no mean girls.

"I'd rather not be ruled by someone dumber than me." Hahaha! I love it. Wouldn't we all? I figure, as long as they don't make my life harder than it has to be, they can do whatever the hell they want. I'll leave them alone if they leave me alone.

Is it hard to live as a female INTJ? Not sure. I've never known any differently. I suppose it can be vexing sometimes, being a rational, level-headed woman in a world that expects women to be the complete opposite. Many men expect women to be warm and nurturing and emotional, and if they meet a woman who isn't, they label her as a frigid, heartless robot. Yay, stereotypes.

Needless to say, I don't think much of gender roles. I see myself as a person first, and a woman second.

 

[BlackDog]

wait, are you Italian? then what's the point in asking me in English? LOL
as I am not completely sure though, I will reply in English nevertheless.



exactly. furthermore, I always write down my thoughts in order to remember them, so I guess that's it.



and don't forget about Silvio's wh*res ;D, those girls get quite a lot of money! along with Silvio and his fellows themselves, of course.



ok, I've done quite a few tests (there's no need to post an italian one, I can handle myself ), and here you are the results

T is my strongest function, with Fe ca. 90-100% and Ti ca. 70-80%
N is my second strongest function, with Ni ca. 60% and Ne ca. 40%
S is my third function, with Si ca. 60% and Se ca. Se ca. 10%
F is my last fuction (what a surprise, I hate F people -.-) with Fi 10% and Fe bordering 0, basically.

the website says I am "unclear". so useful..... at any rate, I trust you are more reliable than a stupid test

well, since we are at it and I never get to talk about such deep matters, I'd like to share a few more thoughts if you don't mind, about my general view of world. maybe that could help out

If I had to describe the world with one world it would be war. war because all animals, us included, are bound to spend their whole life fighting one another to emerge from the dark of mediocrity, to make our way to our righteous place, or even just to make a living.
we just keep pretending we love each other just because we are afraid of chaos and because we want to pretend we are not alone.
I was born in a rather "difficult" family, let's say, and I had had to cope with it since I was a child. I had to be an adult at 6 years old, therefore I had to grow a strong sense of logic and analysing in order not to be crushed by life. I've never relied on anyone to make it, and I made it anyway.
I began thinking about stuff like the meaning of death and life when I all the others we just playing carelessly, as kids are supposed to do.
People like pretending their are good and friendly, but deep inside everyone seeks nothing but his own happiness, even at the cost of others'.
the differences in the way we behave are based solely on what kind of happiness we yearn for.

sorry for making such grief statements, but I think one can make many conclusion out of how somebody else views the world.

I think you are INTJ as well. I would only add that your worldview doesn't necessarily add up to type, though. I had a somewhat similar childhood, and I have the same worldview as you, basically. Only thing is that I think it's depressing that the world is that way; it's disappointing that people are so superficial. The world is a disappointing place.

 

[teothebest]

[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION]
at times, tearing apart someone's self-esteem is necessary to get them doing what you want them to. people with a high self esteem tend not to listen and to believe they are better than others, which is unacceptable. that's why I don't get well along with too extroverted types, they show off too much.
but if you accept it "as long as they don't make your life harder".... well, this simply can't be true. said person could as well be the president of your country, or someone else on top. I hardly see how their decision don't make your life worse, if they make wrong decisions.
as I suppose you are American, let me give you a startling example: your country has refused signing the Kyoto protocol, therefore calling out from the strife to protect the world. this choice is very short-sighted and dumb if you ask me, and will influence the whole world eventually.
I don't like stereotypes in general either, especially those concerning genders..... at times I could come across as more feminist that women, but it's just that I can't stand seeing many of my friends (which are women) bound to be someone they are not.
btw, do you know your tritype? maybe yours is different.... mine is 5w6-8w7-3w4. just for records