Whip Riva with an enneagram type!

[Animal]

[MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION]
I see you tagged me but I'm not good at typing without extensive observation and interaction - but I'll let you know over time if anything comes to mind.

 

[Avocado]

Being sp/sx or sx/sp though...it's like having stood at the beginning of your life and said..."Sure can't wait for my lifetime of 'unrest' to begin."

Not saying the other dom/aux combinations don't have their challenges... I'm just saying I don't recognize in you this particular brand of 'torn'. A kind of torn that 'positive outlook' can't even conceal/erase in its entirety. So, a 7 or 9 with this dom/aux combo... they may present with a genuinely optimistic mood and yet you can still feel the inner conflict... Hear the churning of their insides.

You otoh seem quite consistently good-natured imo. Yes, I admire how honest and straightforward you are. I know you are authentic in everything you say and do...refusing to sacrafice your truth for the sake of social harmony. But unless I'm completely missing something...and with how distinct this particular struggle is I really don't think I am...I see no conflict in you. You seem able to let things go. This to me is social dominance.

I'm currently at a place where the internet connection is very weak so I will have to say what I want in smaller bites me thinks.

No inner conflict for So-Dom? Have you gone insane?

 

[skylights]

Did my last post influence you to come to this conclusion?

Definitely

But I had also been thinking about it since I read the thread earlier before work. This: "Yes i avoid conflict but never at the expense of my personal space." is soooo 9w8. There are other things you've said... The energy level... Not jumping into things... That "belief you need to change as a person to function" bit you wrote strikes me as particularly Sp 9. I have two in the family... So... It's something familiar to me

It seems to me like you have a little "edge" about you, but 7w6 seems too mental for you and 7w8 seems too... high volume? The only 7 types I could maybe see would be 7w8 so/sp or 7w8 sp/so. Still, if you are a 7, then you're probably pouring more 7ness into real life than you are pouring into the board, because you don't strike me on here as heady and scattered like most 7s. And while you have a little "spice" that I could see as sx, I don't get the sx yearning quality from you. So I'm more inclined to think your "spice" is ENT + w8, with a sp-first candor.

I could see 9w8 sp/so... Being sexual last does not mean you don't prefer one on one engagement... Actually a recent study showed that the vast majority of people prefer one on one...

How quickly do you open up in terms of intimacy? And how deeply?

 

[Riva]

Definitely

But I had also been thinking about it since I read the thread earlier before work. This: "Yes i avoid conflict but never at the expense of my personal space." is soooo 9w8. There are other things you've said... The energy level... Not jumping into things... That "belief you need to change as a person to function" bit you wrote strikes me as particularly Sp 9. I have two in the family... So... It's something familiar to me

haha cool.

You see I wouldn't exactly call myself a peaceful person who avoids conflicts and arguments either. To many onlookers I might come across as 'socially' persuasive. I am indeed persuasive in my opinions and readily disagree with others and seldom agree with another for the sake of social harmony. However I am amazingly apt at disagreeing with others without spilling blood and often times people befriend me after arguing with them. I seldom leave an argument with spilt blood. (Of course with ass holes, idiots and bullies I don't expect any harmony, so my last sentence wouldn't apply to my arguments with them.)

The only times I constantly back down from an argument (actually avoid) is with my ESTP 6w7 counterphobic sister. She has the remarkable ability to turn even a normal conversation - lets say talking about X-Men, which is a franchise we both love - to a heated personal argument. (But in all fairness to her, I sometimes see that she holds back an argument initiated by herselfby pressing a smile and even taking a small jab at herself - which is probably e6 integrating into e9? However the moment you see her do this you have to quickly drop the conversation with her, lest she immediately gets offended and take it seriously.)

Regarding not jumping into things, the moment I make acquaintance and befriends a group (which I do quite fast) I can quickly start jumping into things, mainly because I am able to use my wits to counter any short comings of mine. However, the pressure as not to jump without being competent overwhelms me sometimes to a level that I feel annoyed at myself for it. I think deep inside I don't want to disturb 'the situation' with my incompetence. Also once I make my mind to take part in it, with or without finding my wits, I wouldn't back down from others' comments - atleast I like to think this more so than I have noticed it in me, though indeed I have noticed it in me in those few occasions I have faced with such scenarios .

It seems to me like you have a little "edge" about you, but 7w6 seems too mental for you and 7w8 seems too... high volume? The only 7 types I could maybe see would be 7w8 so/sp or 7w8 sp/so. Still, if you are a 7, then you're probably pouring more 7ness into real life than you are pouring into the board, because you don't strike me on here as heady and scattered like most 7s. And while you have a little "spice" that I could see as sx, I don't get the sx yearning quality from you. So I'm more inclined to think your "spice" is ENT + w8, with a sp-first candor.

Yes I think high volume is the word. Dammit I don't sound mental? Grrr...

I think I have more 7ness here in the board than in real life. This is especially noticeable in me when comparing myself to some ESTP women I know in my life. Energetic go getters who jump into things I see in them, which I am not exactly not, but more so as I've grown up and learned than something which is natural to me. However I am indeed a go getter comparatively. It could be as I've said, something I've learned, therefore has ended up becoming a part of my personality.

I could see 9w8 sp/so... Being sexual last does not mean you don't prefer one on one engagement... Actually a recent study showed that the vast majority of people prefer one on one...

How quickly do you open up in terms of intimacy? And how deeply?

Did you mean emotional intimacy?

Before I start it should be stated that I am 26 and is currently avoiding serious relationships due to a very specific reason.

I am glad that the gorgeous, socially compatible, likeable/lovable (to my eyes of course) girls I've met in the last couple of years/months have been/are in relationships, so I don't have to feel regret for not pursuing them . However there was one girl that I met a couple of years ago (before I made up my mind not to be in a serious relationship due to that specific reason) who was single and compatible but my attempts to get to know her and date her never worked out and I still think about that girl like an idiot. So I am not entirely a cold, calculating creature with 100% control over my emotions.

I have been quite distant and is extremely calculating in my emotional bonds in the relationships I've been in. However, none of the relationships I've been in have met my compatibility standards, therefore have ended up without me even trying to make bonds. I've been in, sought and still actively seek sexual relationships. However, I have been quite careful as not to 'hook up' with women who might love me/assume a serious relationship or 'bond with' them since I am only looking for sex. Those are the very few instances in my life that constantly remind me that I have genuine ethics.

 

[skylights]

haha cool.

You see I wouldn't exactly call myself a peaceful person who avoids conflicts and arguments either. To many onlookers I might come across as 'socially' persuasive. I am indeed persuasive in my opinions and readily disagree with others and seldom agree with another for the sake of social harmony. However I am amazingly apt at disagreeing with others without spilling blood and often times people befriend me after arguing with them. I seldom leave an argument with spilt blood. (Of course with ass holes, idiots and bullies I don't expect any harmony, so my last sentence wouldn't apply to my arguments with them.)

The only times I constantly back down from an argument (actually avoid) is with my ESTP 6w7 counterphobic sister. She has the remarkable ability to turn even a normal conversation - lets say talking about X-Men, which is a franchise we both love - to a heated personal argument. (But in all fairness to her, I sometimes see that she holds back an argument initiated by herselfby pressing a smile and even taking a small jab at herself - which is probably e6 integrating into e9? However the moment you see her do this you have to quickly drop the conversation with her, lest she immediately gets offended and take it seriously.)

Regarding not jumping into things, the moment I make acquaintance and befriends a group (which I do quite fast) I can quickly start jumping into things, mainly because I am able to use my wits to counter any short comings of mine. However, the pressure as not to jump without being competent overwhelms me sometimes to a level that I feel annoyed at myself for it. I think deep inside I don't want to disturb 'the situation' with my incompetence. Also once I make my mind to take part in it, with or without finding my wits, I wouldn't back down from others' comments - atleast I like to think this more so than I have noticed it in me, though indeed I have noticed it in me in those few occasions I have faced with such scenarios .

This is interesting, thanks for sharing so much

Yes I think high volume is the word. Dammit I don't sound mental? Grrr...

Glad high volume works, I wen through a number of words before I thought of that one! And trust me when I say it's a great thing to not sound mental, in the head triad way. It sucks. It's too much, too fast, too complex. It gets twisted inside and you can't find your way out. You spend ages in your head and you create monsters entirely of your own making - like you see with your sister. I am happy for you if you are not a head type. You do still strike me as an "intellectual" NT, ENTP. I just mean that you seem intelligent enough not to get yourself tied up in mental knots.

Would you mind talking more about the differences between you and your sister? I think it could be illuminating typewise.

I think I have more 7ness here in the board than in real life. This is especially noticeable in me when comparing myself to some ESTP women I know in my life. Energetic go getters who jump into things I see in them, which I am not exactly not, but more so as I've grown up and learned than something which is natural to me. However I am indeed a go getter comparatively. It could be as I've said, something I've learned, therefore has ended up becoming a part of my personality.



Did you mean emotional intimacy?

Before I start it should be stated that I am 26 and is currently avoiding serious relationships due to a very specific reason.

I am glad that the gorgeous, socially compatible, likeable/lovable (to my eyes of course) girls I've met in the last couple of years/months have been/are in relationships, so I don't have to feel regret for not pursuing them . However there was one girl that I met a couple of years ago (before I made up my mind not to be in a serious relationship due to that specific reason) who was single and compatible but my attempts to get to know her and date her never worked out and I still think about that girl like an idiot. So I am not entirely a cold, calculating creature with 100% control over my emotions.

I have been quite distant and is extremely calculating in my emotional bonds in the relationships I've been in. However, none of the relationships I've been in have met my compatibility standards, therefore have ended up without me even trying to make bonds. I've been in, sought and still actively seek sexual relationships. However, I have been quite careful as not to 'hook up' with women who might love me/assume a serious relationship or 'bond with' them since I am only looking for sex. Those are the very few instances in my life that constantly remind me that I have genuine ethics.

Really interesting. I was curious as to the level of intimacy you engage quickly/deeply, because it relates to where sx is in your stacking. Sx first will initiate and plunge to depth as a general preference, sx second will "dip" here and there with certain people, and sx-last will tend to hold back as a general preference. What you have described sounds like sp is higher in your stacking than sx, and I doubt that you are sexual dominant. Do you have any thoughts on your instinctual stacking?

 

[Starry]

^

Thank you so much ofr your feedback . Often they are uniquely well informed, though sometimes they could successfully leave me/the masses utterly doubtful about my/their perceptions .

Thanks riva.

Can't wait for the unrest to begin? Haha you are right in your assumption that i am not so, though i do seek (as anyone) excitement. I wonder whether [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] relates to this? Coriolis do you wake up in the morning and expect to have an 'awfully bit adventure' full of fun and a lot of turmoil too; like peter pan? (Ps - I've never read Peter Pan, so I don't know whether that's what he want.)

^^I think my use of 'unrest' when describing sx/sp & sp/sx may have confused you here haha. I know that many of the general e7 descriptions which often have a Se 7w8 bias can conjure up images of a high-energy individual that has no time for sleep. That's not the kind of 'unrest' I'm talking about.

These two in the dom/aux can feel like they are in direct opposition to each other... creating an individual that often feels conflicted. 'Unrest' was a reference to that state. Imagine being in a car...and you simultaneously have the accelerator and the brake floored... (where are you goin riva?) That image should help you understand my meaning when I say 'torn.'

I definitely wouldn't use the word torn to describe myself. What is this inner conflict you talk of? Lack of confidence? I do - hate to admit this - lack confidence in certain areas including socializing. But these have been more so when I was younger and less so as I have grown older which probably means lack of experience. (Infact quite a few of my friends have commented that they admire me in this regard.) I do contemplate as to how I can have the best outcome from interactions wit the opposite sex (sx wannabe maybe) and even beat myself if there were things left unsaid. (However a guy who is exactly the same age as I said he and he has read that other guys too at our age suffer from this thought of 'did I say enough, what should I have said etc' which made me sigh a breath of relief.) Again I think this as something anyone can relate to. However, I don't suffer from feelings of inadequacy from group conversations, have no phobias in that area and don't go home and run everything/conversation in my head thinking I said too much or too little. It's usually on one of one conversations with females I'm attracted to I often ponder.

"sx wannabe" haha. Like your friend indicated...what's described above stems primarily from the "human variant."

Anyway going back to confidence, sadly I am no cowboy although I might come across so. I don't/can't jump into things without having utmost confidence in my abilities when taking part in things that might require 'considerable' talent (such as playing cricket with without proper practice ...... this is actually the only activity that crosses my mind, making me wonder whether I have some childhood insecurity regarding it). Wow I am such an idiot. Maybe this para should be ignored!

Hmm.. on an embarrassing note I have a constant belief that I need to change as a 'person' (not my habits or practices) to function properly in certain areas in life. I wonder whether this is a common need? It's quite intense, to a level I am unable to function properly (and sometimes at all) when unsure of what to 'be'. This is the first time I've shared that aspect of my life.

I love you opening-up a little more and sharing these aspects of your life and who you are as a person... Here again though, much of what you put forth are feelings and experiences that will be shared by individuals across the entire enneagram spectrum...until we get to the bolded. I personally have always believed you are a 7... but the fact the bolded is the primary coping/defensive strategy of the type...the foundation on which 7 is built... I wonder if that helps you in any way decide between 7 & 9? (there was an attempt to discuss this issue in [MENTION=5418]Lady_X[/MENTION]'s 9 thread... that a way to distinguish 7 from 9 is that 7s wish for change while 9s fear it. 9s try to make sure things do not change.)

This thread though... has me questioning 8 as your wing. IOW I suspected an 8 wing for the same reasons [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] stated in her post but I'm now wondering whether [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]'s got it right with his typing of 7w6. You present with the confidence of the 7w8...but I do know that there are some 7w6 so/sx's that...for whatever reason...are capable of concealing their e6 anxieties and insecurities (smooth presentation) in spite of the experience of them. The fact you report feelings of insecurities does have me thinking Elfboy is correct in his typing of you.

 

[Riva]

^

Dammit have to go to sleep. Will reply to you in the morning Starry.

This is interesting, thanks for sharing so much

Huh no worries. And thank you (all of you) for trying to help. I have since late (few months) been having the need to know my fears/motivations, and enneagram seems quite helpful in that regard.

Glad high volume works, I wen through a number of words before I thought of that one! And trust me when I say it's a great thing to not sound mental, in the head triad way. It sucks. It's too much, too fast, too complex. It gets twisted inside and you can't find your way out. You spend ages in your head and you create monsters entirely of your own making - like you see with your sister. I am happy for you if you are not a head type. You do still strike me as an "intellectual" NT, ENTP. I just mean that you seem intelligent enough not to get yourself tied up in mental knots.

Oooops I didn't mean to say I am more high volume than mental. I meant to agree that 7w8s are 'too high volume' to describe me. However I am more interactive (and even polarizing - which I have been called) in groups scenarios involving people I like, esp more so than most people. However I am not socially concerned enough to continually maintain such high levels of polarization, or to put it better: easily leaves the situation based on whether I have already gained what I want or what I am gaining.

You just used Fe there when you called me intellectual didn't you?

Would you mind talking more about the differences between you and your sister? I think it could be illuminating typewise.

Hmm.. Haven't thought much on it. I'll try to use words:

Me/Sister

relaxed/anxious
Unsympathetic/sympathetic
unempathetic/empathetic
Always relaxed/always anxious
Picks battles which are needed to fight/either runs from battles that have to be fought or picks stupid battles
Brave/brave with family, not so with outsiders
Both are bad tempered
Suave though not sophisticated/not suave
Seductive/Doesn't ever seduce, often gets laughed at for her lack of seduction
Academic slacker/Academic
Funny (yeah I am funny)/Not funny

Hmmm... I'll share more when it crosses my mind. I am comparing with the wrong person since I - except for a very few areas - feel I am better equipped than her. :/

Maybe I should compare myself with Elim Garak from Star Trek DS9 who is also a 6w7, though a ENTP?

Really interesting. I was curious as to the level of intimacy you engage quickly/deeply, because it relates to where sx is in your stacking. Sx first will initiate and plunge to depth as a general preference, sx second will "dip" here and there with certain people, and sx-last will tend to hold back as a general preference. What you have described sounds like sp is higher in your stacking than sx, and I doubt that you are sexual dominant. Do you have any thoughts on your instinctual stacking?

Are you sure SX doms plunge to depth? Well they probably do, but wouldn't I think if they are facing the same scenario as me. I am not a SX dom though, that I am 95% certain.

I have no idea what my instinctual stacking is either .

 

[Starry]

No inner conflict for So-Dom? Have you gone insane?

I got interrupted and had to return to this...


Magic, I thought I indicated to you that I wanted to keep the fact I've gone insane private and here you go and...? omg (see if I ever tell you anything secret ever again.)

I am under the assumption that most (if not all) humans will experience 'inner conflict.'
I also imagine that there exists more variables than we can truly account for... that impacts/alters that experience for each individual.

Do I believe an individual that is stacked sx/sp will automatically experience more inner turmoil than a social dom? No.

If we strip everything away and examine variants in isolation do I then believe the contrast between sx/sp is greater and more problematic than so/sp & so/sx? Yes. Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp comes with a 'built-in' conflict? Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp might be considered one of those variables mentioned above in and of itself in ways the social stacks might not be? Yes.

Have I read a thousand times over in a variety of works... theorists claim that sx/sp is the most challenging stack? Yes. Do I feel sexual dominance in general carries with it the potential to create the experience of 'inner conflict' to a greater degree than that of social dominance? Yes. Is that the common understanding in enneagram theory? Yup.

 

[Avocado]

I got interrupted and had to return to this...


Magic, I thought I indicated to you that I wanted to keep the fact I've gone insane private and here you go and...? omg (see if I ever tell you anything secret ever again.)

I am under the assumption that most (if not all) humans will experience 'inner conflict.'
I also imagine that there exists more variables than we can truly account for... that impacts/alters that experience for each individual.

Do I believe an individual that is stacked sx/sp will automatically experience more inner turmoil than a social dom? No.

If we strip everything away and examine variants in isolation do I then believe the contrast between sx/sp is greater and more problematic than so/sp & so/sx? Yes. Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp comes with a 'built-in' conflict? Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp might be considered one of those variables mentioned above in and of itself in ways the social stacks might not be? Yes.

Have I read a thousand times over in a variety of works... theorists claim that sx/sp is the most challenging stack? Yes. Do I feel sexual dominance in general carries with it the potential to create the experience of 'inner conflict' to a greater degree than that of social dominance? Yes. Is that the common understanding in enneagram theory? Yup.

Whatever, I don't care anymore. I feel like this is all made up, anyway. The real issue is endless mistakes that almost have me fired. Can't keep any shit straight. I'm just a drain on society and wish I could fall asleep and never wake up. I'm a waste of space and resources.

 

[Riva]

^^I think my use of 'unrest' when describing sx/sp & sp/sx may have confused you here haha. I know that many of the general e7 descriptions which often have a Se 7w8 bias can conjure up images of a high-energy individual that has no time for sleep. That's not the kind of 'unrest' I'm talking about.

These two in the dom/aux can feel like they are in direct opposition to each other... creating an individual that often feels conflicted. 'Unrest' was a reference to that state. Imagine being in a car...and you simultaneously have the accelerator and the brake floored... (where are you goin riva?) That image should help you understand my meaning when I say 'torn.'

Well I get the metaphor, but I am not sure of the contexts. Is this always or only on certain scenarios; like inner thoughts, decisions etc? I would love some example.

"sx wannabe" haha. Like your friend indicated...what's described above stems primarily from the "human variant."

I love you opening-up a little more and sharing these aspects of your life and who you are as a person... Here again though, much of what you put forth are feelings and experiences that will be shared by individuals across the entire enneagram spectrum...until we get to the bolded. I personally have always believed you are a 7... but the fact the bolded is the primary coping/defensive strategy of the type...the foundation on which 7 is built... I wonder if that helps you in any way decide between 7 & 9? (there was an attempt to discuss this issue in [MENTION=5418]Lady_X[/MENTION]'s 9 thread... that a way to distinguish 7 from 9 is that 7s wish for change while 9s fear it. 9s try to make sure things do not change.)

Woah I didn't know this.

Well I did know it, but I assumed the change 7s look for is 'greener grass' and not an 'inner mental state' of competence. However I could be running, not from my problems but from my weaknesses. I do think though that I am not running/avoiding my issues but standing my ground, changing inside and fighting back. I want things dealt with and I don't ever recall running from an issue. In a literal sense I 'can't' look for greener grass if I have issues I haven't dealt with (though I am not foolish enough to anxiously wonder what others are thinking once I've left). Once they are settled, I feel 'free/unrestrained' to go look for better things. I wouldn't call it running though.

This thread though... has me questioning 8 as your wing. IOW I suspected an 8 wing for the same reasons [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] stated in her post but I'm now wondering whether [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]'s got it right with his typing of 7w6. You present with the confidence of the 7w8...but I do know that there are some 7w6 so/sx's that...for whatever reason...are capable of concealing their e6 anxieties and insecurities (smooth presentation) in spite of the experience of them. The fact you report feelings of insecurities does have me thinking Elfboy is correct in his typing of you.

Yeah I think insecurities is the word, though the moment I find my security (which is always within self) I become a raging cowboy. (It's amazing that one moment I am finding my feet avoiding interaction and next I am kicking ass.) However sad to say I am naturally not a over-confident person, though I am definitely a positive person who knows that I'll always always make it through and therefore is never anxious. And anxious is never a word others would use to describe me. And I also seldom complain about external circumstances (like a e6 or wing 6 would). I just know things are going to be alright, I know I can actively change my external circumstances, smooth talk myself out of bad scenarios or -gulp - run. But I do get angry and curse at external circumstances, sometimes even loudly. I just don't keep it inside.

^

Couldn't all these be 9w8 traits too? However your point about e7s wanting change and e9s resist change questions e9 typing. But like I said above, I look for internal solution/change so I can deal with the external and internal insecurities, and I seldom run. (This could be a Machismo tendency.)

Once I've changed though I am changed for good.

Edit - all of what i said could be of a 9's wing 8 developing?

Is the wing an additional fear or something that is developed to cope with fears?

 

[Starry]

Whatever, I don't care anymore. I feel like this is all made up, anyway.

'Made-up' as opposed to... what? Divinely handed-down 10 Commandments style? (<-actually there's a rumor floating around that that may have been made-up too but you seriously can't believe everything you see, hear and/or read these days.)

Okay, honestly, I didn't want to be the person to have to tell you this but you're so "young Ne quick" that it's difficult hiding the truth from you... And so yes, you've got 'us'... alright? Are you happy now? Personality theory in all its forms is a human construct. (Whatever man...just don't ruin it all for the believers and the young folk okay?)

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]
Your efforts are not in vain. I will succeed in this job, even if I feel like a stupid little kid. You have a special place in my heart.

The real issue is endless mistakes that almost have me fired. Can't keep any shit straight. I'm just a drain on society and wish I could fall asleep and never wake up. I'm a waste of space and resources.

I read a while back in some social scientific journal that while the ENFP can take pride in dominating the ADD, ADHD & generalized anxiety disorder communities... rarely do we receive an actual mood disorder diagnoses. And yet we've somehow earned for ourselves that reputation it seems and I can't think of why...


The first quote above is from 8/3... a point that I told you I could tell 'positive outlook' had kicked back in. That is "the forgetting" I've been telling you about in a million different ways 'til I'm blue in the face.

The more problems you have...the more dangerous to your overall wellbeing "the forgetting" becomes. Because you are unable to focus on your problems and pain long enough for you to even remember they exist let alone address them in a meaningful way... you are falling back on "the magic." You are allowing positive outlook to take hold of you again. And positive outlook says "if I ignore my problems they will go away" and "everything is good...I'm good...and something good in the external world will make my life great in the very near future." <-This is until your forgotten challenges cause something challenging to happen in the external world and you become so very angry and insulted to have been awakened from your positive stupor by "the remembering."

 

[Riva]

I don't think this is enough information to determine what he is. My best guess is that he's either a 1w9 So/Sp or a 3w4 Sp/So. The reason being is that So can have 3-like qualities, but a Social 3 is like a uber 3, which would obvious as hell and not something you would miss. If he were a Social 1 (as well as being a ENTJ BTW) he could mimic certain 3 traits without that being his core type. He could also be a Self-pres 3 which would temper some of the 3 traits and make him mistype as a 1.

The best way to think about the dominant instinct is as if it's a lacking that has to be counteracted:

- Social firsts naturally struggle to define the standards and practices of social interactions, connections, expectations, and positions. They have to establish, affirm and/or protect their relational aspect of their lives in order to feel secure.
- Self-pres firsts naturally struggle to define their personal boundaries and validate their sense of identity and existence. They have to establish, affirm, and/or protect their body and selfhood in order to feel secure.

As for Sp/So vs So/Sp stackings, it's tricky. I think Sp/So is so little talked about to be fully understood and So/Sp is often misrepresented. I think that people that are Sp/So can be surprising warm and outgoing, and So/Sp can be more reserved than expected. To (speculatively) compare the two:

- Sp/So is perhaps less adaptable to different social situations, and more plainly idiosyncratic in manner (something they may play up for humorous effect or charm). They're slightly more grounded, practical, frank, direct, deferential, disarming, observant and focussed on the fundamentals in life. Perhaps no more reserved than So/Sp but are better at disguising the fact they're concealing certain things.
- So/Sp is less personal and distinct in expression and tend to be more elusive in manner. They lean toward being slightly more idealistic/aspirational, cerebral, receptive, tactful, oblique, insightful and expansive in thought. Their tendency to shift and flex to the situation, the breadth with which they apply themselves, as well as their pleasant, inoffensive demeanour can make them hard to pin down.

If you watch House of Cards, I think Frank Underwood is a good (well, an apt) example of a So/Sp, and Claire Underwood is a good example of a Sp/So. Take no note of their general personalities and the fact that they're both cold, callous, machiavellian bastards - I only mean to compare their the manner with which they engage with others and pursue their goals in life. They both have a diffuse energy about them, but it manifests in different ways.

Glad to help.

Just to add some clarifications...

3s are part of the identity triad of the Enneagram, so you have to be careful not to mix up those aspects with the instincts. I said that Sp tempers 3-ness in some ways (which it does), but it can be confused with other 3 traits. One thing I know about Self-pres 3s is that their vanity is lack of vanity. In other words their proud and ostentatious about their lack of pride - they may show off about the fact they don't care what others think.

Also be aware that when I say that Sp is wrapped up in body and identity I mean that in a very broad sense. It's a fear that others or the environment will undermine their poorly delineated sense of self. Depending on the person, they may be trying to safeguard their: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality etc. This means that they're all the more focussed on drawing a line in the sand and saying, "I'm THIS and not THAT" - it makes them much louder when it comes to defining themselves and their 'separateness'. Social-firsts OTOH often resist doing this (even the So/Sp stacking) because it gets in the way of their ability to harmonize, recognise and respond to dynamics, and to a degree, be everything to everyone. This means they end up transcending clear definitions and limitations of who they are, where they belong, what they're receptive to etc - they're broad and open in nature. Personally, I like being surprising and seemingly contradictory in nature; it keeps others on their toes and shows them I'm more than one thing.

BTW this site has a pretty good description of type and stacking. Example:

Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.


Thissssss is me.

The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.

However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.

Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ? [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).

So/sp seems so polite (too socially conscious to offend) which is one of the reasons i cant relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass. I am not cool as him though and not even half as cunning.

 

[Southern Kross]

Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.

Thissssss is me.

The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.

However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.

It's easier to understand if you read my more comprehensive explanation (I was trying to shorten the post). This is something I wrote from another thread:

Self-pres instinct
Driven by a sense of the fragility of one's own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by external elements they believe may destabilise their ability to flourish. They fear that outside forces may erode their 'separateness' and gradually consume them. Their sense of body and identity is so indefinite they feel compelled to draw strong personal boundaries in which to protect themselves. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them. These may include: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, strength/power, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, safety, individuality etc. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.

The point is that the instincts reflect a struggle with certain underlying issues and the inherent need to compensate for them. Sexual-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a sense of intimacy/connection/gratification. Social-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a grip on social dynamics/structures/positions. Self-pres-firsts struggle to establish and maintain the bounds of their body/existence/identity. Each then sets out to study and conquer the seat of their discomfort, thereby gaining control over it and inadvertently becoming an expert in that field in the process. Imagine it like a battered wife who becomes highly skilled at reading body language, tone of voice and facial cues in order to potentially avoid and/or placate her husband's wrath pre-emptively. She hasn't removed the threat and isn't necessarily good at dealing with it; she's just become highly attuned to nature of that threat as a matter of survival.

Look at a Sx-first and how they often talk about not being able to form connections with people; that's because they're not as naturally capable at it as Sp and So firsts, which in turn, leads to overcompensating for it. However people get it around the wrong way when they think about the instincts. We think of Sx-firsts obsessing over connection as a sign that they're inherently skilled at it, but if that were true, it would be effortless for them and not a constant source of stress and concern. They have to work at it and focus a large part of their energy on it; they must be constant gardeners in order to feel on top of it all.

Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ?Elfboy helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).

Do you mean Sp/So? They can be rather expressive - Jennifer Lawrence is one. Claire Underwood is an introvert so the energy will manifest in a different way. The key to Sx-lasts types is diffuse energy not lack of expression.

And I think Claire Underwood is a INTJ 8w9 Sp/So. Tywin Lannister is a ENTJ 8w7 (too overtly aggressive to be a 8w9) and probably Sx/Sp... or possibly Sp/Sx.

So/sp seems so polite which is one of the reasons i xanr relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass.

Politeness is not a necessary trait of So/Sp, however adaptability and awareness of social forces/trends/atmosphere are. Frank is skilled at adapting to situations and people; finding just the right angle to work people over and get them to do what he wants. He has a different mask for every person he is with, aside from a trusted few who get to see the real him. He is highly aware of the shifting dynamics within and between people, and being a skilled strategist and a persuasive speaker (ie. an ENTJ), he knows how to use them to his advantage.

I go back and forth with Frank on enneatype: he's either a 3w2 or a 8w7. It can be tough with ENTJs to know the difference, because there is crossover in traits with both types. I guess I would say 3w2...

 

[Elfboy]

Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.
Thissssss is me.
The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.
However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.
Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ? [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).
So/sp seems so polite (too socially conscious to offend) which is one of the reasons i cant relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass. I am not cool as him though and not even half as cunning.

actually, Tywin is 1w9 So/Sp and Frank Underwood is 8w9 Sp/So
btw, who is Claire?

PS: you're looking at the subtypes too separately. it's better to view them holistically (ie: Sp 7, Sx 6, So 2 etc)

 

[Nicodemus]

I am going to read this thread now, to learn all there is to learn about the boy named riva. Soon I shall know his soul.

 

[Riva]

Thank you SK for your reply.

It's easier to understand if you read my more comprehensive explanation (I was trying to shorten the post). This is something I wrote from another thread:

Self-pres instinct
Driven by a sense of the fragility of one's own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by external elements they believe may destabilise their ability to flourish. They fear that outside forces may erode their 'separateness' and gradually consume them. Their sense of body and identity is so indefinite they feel compelled to draw strong personal boundaries in which to protect themselves. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them. These may include: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, strength/power, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, safety, individuality etc. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.

Except for the highlighted this doesn't sound like me; but I get it that overall this is not me. Shit I was totally sold on being an SP dom. Now I am not sure again.

The point is that the instincts reflect a struggle with certain underlying issues and the inherent need to compensate for them. Sexual-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a sense of intimacy/connection/gratification. Social-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a grip on social dynamics/structures/positions. Self-pres-firsts struggle to establish and maintain the bounds of their body/existence/identity. Each then sets out to study and conquer the seat of their discomfort, thereby gaining control over it and inadvertently becoming an expert in that field in the process. Imagine it like a battered wife who becomes highly skilled at reading body language, tone of voice and facial cues in order to potentially avoid and/or placate her husband's wrath pre-emptively. She hasn't removed the threat and isn't necessarily good at dealing with it; she's just become highly attuned to nature of that threat as a matter of survival.

This I didn't know - the part it says that people are trying to compensate for it. Mastering variants in the process makes absolute sense. Thank you for this. I can vaguely remember you mentioning this theory sometime ago. Is this fairly established? Even if it isn't, you do make quite a lot of sense. I simply thought the dom as a need. But hey, needs arises from wants, and people want to have what they think they don't have. So this theory makes quite a lot of sense.

But,

Look at a Sx-first and how they often talk about not being able to form connections with people; that's because they're not as naturally capable at it as Sp and So firsts, which in turn, leads to overcompensating for it. However people get it around the wrong way when they think about the instincts. We think of Sx-firsts obsessing over connection as a sign that they're inherently skilled at it, but if that were true, it would be effortless for them and not a constant source of stress and concern. They have to work at it and focus a large part of their energy on it; they must be constant gardeners in order to feel on top of it all.

Well in a way the 'but' above doesn't have a place since I agreed with the para above this, however, I don't agree with the highlighted part. I've seen plenty of SX 3rds complain above having to adhere to mating cues..... Ooooo mating cues noticing/handling could be SO, or to put it better, not limited to SX couldn't it?

Also both the people that comes to my mind who were SX 3rds who complain about 'it' are ITJs. They give sexless vibes. Does it mean they are not capable of' it' or are they not interested in emitting 'it'?

Do you mean Sp/So? They can be rather expressive - Jennifer Lawrence is one. Claire Underwood is an introvert so the energy will manifest in a different way. The key to Sx-lasts types is diffuse energy not lack of expression.

The sx 3rds I mentioned are introverts, which is probably why they emit 'constant' diffused energy vibes. Comparing them to me is probably a stupid idea.

Politeness is not a necessary trait of So/Sp, however adaptability and awareness of social forces/trends/atmosphere are. Frank is skilled at adapting to situations and people; finding just the right angle to work people over and get them to do what he wants. He has a different mask for every person he is with, aside from a trusted few who get to see the real him. He is highly aware of the shifting dynamics within and between people, and being a skilled strategist and a persuasive speaker (ie. an ENTJ), he knows how to use them to his advantage.

Yeah I guess. The politeness I felt was probably a result of the SO doms not wanting damage the ongoing harmony/not 'needing' any change. They probably could have acted aggressively if they wanted change. Didn't think much of it.

And I think Claire Underwood is a INTJ 8w9 Sp/So. Tywin Lannister is a ENTJ 8w7 (too overtly aggressive to be a 8w9) and probably Sx/Sp... or possibly Sp/Sx.

I go back and forth with Frank on enneatype: he's either a 3w2 or a 8w7. It can be tough with ENTJs to know the difference, because there is crossover in traits with both types. I guess I would say 3w2...

Going by what you've said in the first para I've quoted Tywin screams SP dom. He isn't overtly aggressively at all - but then again that's my point of view. 8w7s have a lot of 7nish vibes with a bigger clubs. Tywin is like a classic volcano. He is overtly aggressive because he can afford to be. He seems like he is 'trying hard' to control his anger too .

Claire is like plastic, which is classic trait I associate with 3w4s - but then again - literally again - it's simply my point of view. She seems more prestige concerned than power concerned. The business venture she has also seem to be her attempt to be included in a role she believes has its recognitions rather that a way to genuinely take control of something that has to be controlled.

Frank, well It though classic 8w7 but you could be right. I am glad you didn't think 'say' he was ENTP. A lot of people in the relevant thread has typed him as an ENFJ or ENTP, because manipulation is always and only Fe they thought. WTF I screamed when reading them.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru.../67635-house-cards.html?highlight=house+cards

actually, Tywin is 1w9 So/Sp and Frank Underwood is 8w9 Sp/So
btw, who is Claire?

PS: you're looking at the subtypes too separately. it's better to view them holistically (ie: Sp 7, Sx 6, So 2 etc)

Dude -

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
Tywin is a clear ENTJ 8w9, probably Sp/So (possibly So/Sp, but Sp/So seems more likely). despite how he may come across, he is actually a very principled man, which is probably why you thought 1 a strong possibility, but his principles are 8-ish rather than 1-ish. you see, he has little interest in justice or fairness. his view of reality is largely amoral and his principles are mostly geared toward looking out for "his people". as if he's saying "look out for yourself and look out for your own. nothing else matters".
he is not a 5 because he is clearly a gut type (notice the instinctual, paternal energy. 5s do not have this). his thinking is driven by pragmatism and power rather than the intellectually dominated and more timid thinking of a 5.

his 8 tendencies are clear in the clip below including
1) doing what needs to be done, whether or not it's "clean" or "honorable"
2) belief that fear must be instilled in others to command respect
3) belief that the world is an unfair, unjust place
4) looking out for "his people"
5) reference to predators (8s often use analogies relating to wild animals, particularly predators, which they view as similar to themselves)
6) a keen eye for weakness. he points out Jamie's immediately
7) a mindset of "survival above all" (which is especially true of Self Preservation 8s)

 

[Southern Kross]

Except for the highlighted this doesn't sound like me; but I get it that overall this is not me. Shit I was totally sold on being an SP dom. Now I am not sure again.

Hmm. Do you feel the need to protect these things or are they just stuff you value?

This I didn't know - the part it says that people are trying to compensate for it. Mastering variants in the process makes absolute sense. Thank you for this. I can vaguely remember you mentioning this theory sometime ago. Is this fairly established? Even if it isn't, you do make quite a lot of sense. I simply thought the dom as a need. But hey, needs arises from wants, and people want to have what they think they don't have. So this theory makes quite a lot of sense.

It is my own theory of it, but I feel like it's implied in the literature and matches the manifestations of type I've seen. I don't know if there's enough discussion about how we're meant to approach the instincts and what they're mean to be, even by quality enneagram professionals. This just helps me to make sense of it.

Well in a way the 'but' above doesn't have a place since I agreed with the para above this, however, I don't agree with the highlighted part. I've seen plenty of SX 3rds complain above having to adhere to mating cues..... Ooooo mating cues noticing/handling could be SO, or to put it better, not limited to SX couldn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. Some of the issues can cross over but what it comes down to is the underlying approach to them. People can have identity issues without being Sp, for example. Also, So-firsts are more likely to focus on mating cues to begin with. They are sensitive to the rituals and it cause a great deal of stress for them, which can lead them to despise it all. This is different to the Sx-definition of forming "connections", though.

What I also meant to address with that highlighted portion, is that I've noticed that with Sp and So-firsts (or perhaps it's just Sx-lasts - I'm not sure on this theory yet), there's less of a sense of fragility in their bonds. I don't 'connect'* easily with people (for different reasons to Sx-firsts) but when I do feel close to someone I don't feel stress over it or the need to actively preserve it. I assume that the relationship stays the same even when there's separation or lack of contact. From what I've gathered, this is not the case for Sx-firsts; they need more relationship maintenance to feel secure in it. You're also more likely to find Sx-firsts exhibiting jealousy, which is related in cause. What I'm getting at is that Sp and So have a lower threshold of needs when it comes to 'connection' compared with Sx, therefore you could reasonably say they are more proficient at managing it.

*there's some complications with using this word because it can mean different things to different people. Even I mean it in two different ways here.

The sx 3rds I mentioned are introverts, which is probably why they emit 'constant' diffused energy vibes. Comparing them to me is probably a stupid idea.

Yeah, it can be tough separating the instincts from other type related stuff. I have to really think about it each time myself. You've got to look at a broad group of those with the same stacking: Es and Is, Js and Ps, Te users and Fe users. It's easy to confuse unrelated similarities and differences for instincts.

Yeah I guess. The politeness I felt was probably a result of the SO doms not wanting damage the ongoing harmony/not 'needing' any change. They probably could have acted aggressively if they wanted change. Didn't think much of it.

Exactly. You are right that that there can often be formality with So-firsts (particuarly with So/Sp), which perhaps sounds a lot like politeness to others. And if you look at Frank Underwood, he is very polite and agreeable outwardly - it's only because we, the audience, know that it's a manipulative act that it seems devious.

Going by what you've said in the first para I've quoted Tywin screams SP dom. He isn't overtly aggressively at all - but then again that's my point of view. 8w7s have a lot of 7nish vibes with a bigger clubs. Tywin is like a classic volcano. He is overtly aggressive because he can afford to be. He seems like he is 'trying hard' to control his anger too .

I don't know, he seems too intense and proactive to be a 8w9. I guess he could be and the intensity comes from his being a ENTJ and a 8. I suppose if you look at his actions objectively it's more like "defense is the best offense", which is more of a 8w9 thing. However, I'm not convinced he is calm enough to have a 9 wing. And you are right about how he seems to repress his anger, which would fit with Sp.

So maybe 8w7 or 8w9 Sp/Sx? I might have to think more on it.

Claire is like plastic, which is classic trait I associate with 3w4s - but then again - literally again - it's simply my point of view. She seems more prestige concerned than power concerned. The business venture she has also seem to be her attempt to be included in a role she believes has its recognitions rather that a way to genuinely take control of something that has to be controlled.

Yeah she is. She's very cold and distant. I don't think she's ambitious enough to be a 3. She doesn't seem concerned enough about forwarding herself, and is just being supportive of Frank in that. She has personal goals, but they aren't about gaining success for herself or making her mark; they're about changing and improving things that matter to her. It seems more important to her to have control over the plan of action than it is for her to be in the spotlight or to earn respect/admiration. Her notoriety is just a means to an end to her.

Have you read this description of 8w9? It seems so like her to me:

8w9s tend to be more reserved and self-contained. They are more modest and friendly. They aren't as megalomanic as 8w7s. They are less likely to overestimate themselves. They speak in simpler language and seem less "heady" than 8w7s with their more drawn out cadence. They don't understand the eight-winged-seven self-destructive behaviour. They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

8w9s believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".

And here's a description of a 8 Sp/So:

Self-pres/Social

Self-pres/soc Eights are very self reliant. They are frequently entrepreneurial; the self-preservational instinct combines with the social to make a subtype that is very focused on the external environment. Self-pres/social Eights are the least dramatic of type Eight. They are “no nonsense” types. They can be introverted, especially when the Nine wing is dominant. But, even though they are often quiet, they are very much in control of themselves and their direction in life. On the high side, they make great business owners. They show a sense of fairness and have an instinctual drive to do what needs to be done. They know how to make decisions and aren’t afraid to implement them. Because the sexual instinct is last, they can sometimes be seen as difficult to warm up to. They can be seen as “all business.”

This type has a tendency to see relationships as somehow “getting in the way.” While they may desire a close romantic relationship, they don’t want it if it is at the expense of their self-pres needs. They can appear Five-like in this way, as they are concerned about the demands a relationship might make on their time.

Frank, well It though classic 8w7 but you could be right. I am glad you didn't think 'say' he was ENTP. A lot of people in the relevant thread has typed him as an ENFJ or ENTP, because manipulation is always and only Fe they thought. WTF I screamed when reading them.

Frank is more ENTJ-y than any fictional example I have ever come across. I haven't a clue how anyone could think he was anything else.

 

[Riva]

I feel that I am making the process of typing myself too complicated by agreeing yet disagreeing.

Hmm. Do you feel the need to protect these things or are they just stuff you value?

Definitely stuff they value.

It is my own theory of it, but I feel like it's implied in the literature and matches the manifestations of type I've seen. I don't know if there's enough discussion about how we're meant to approach the instincts and what they're mean to be, even by quality enneagram professionals. This just helps me to make sense of it.

It is believable. I also remember you saying that the primary function is there to support/supply the secondary function. So/Sp - So is used to accomplish Sp needs or something.

Yeah, absolutely. Some of the issues can cross over but what it comes down to is the underlying approach to them. People can have identity issues without being Sp, for example. Also, So-firsts are more likely to focus on mating cues to begin with. They are sensitive to the rituals and it cause a great deal of stress for them, which can lead them to despise it all. This is different to the Sx-definition of forming "connections", though.

What I also meant to address with that highlighted portion, is that I've noticed that with Sp and So-firsts (or perhaps it's just Sx-lasts - I'm not sure on this theory yet), there's less of a sense of fragility in their bonds. I don't 'connect'* easily with people (for different reasons to Sx-firsts) but when I do feel close to someone I don't feel stress over it or the need to actively preserve it. I assume that the relationship stays the same even when there's separation or lack of contact. From what I've gathered, this is not the case for Sx-firsts; they need more relationship maintenance to feel secure in it. You're also more likely to find Sx-firsts exhibiting jealousy, which is related in cause. What I'm getting at is that Sp and So have a lower threshold of needs when it comes to 'connection' compared with Sx, therefore you could reasonably say they are more proficient at managing it.

*there's some complications with using this word because it can mean different things to different people. Even I mean it in two different ways here.

Well I don't feel a need to closely preserve it, but I do feel jealous from time to time. I think it's more strategic - where I stand and what influence I have over them rather than a genuine need to bond. But I do feel jealous - like I said - from time to time.

Yeah, it can be tough separating the instincts from other type related stuff. I have to really think about it each time myself. You've got to look at a broad group of those with the same stacking: Es and Is, Js and Ps, Te users and Fe users. It's easy to confuse unrelated similarities and differences for instincts.

Exactly. You are right that that there can often be formality with So-firsts (particuarly with So/Sp), which perhaps sounds a lot like politeness to others. And if you look at Frank Underwood, he is very polite and agreeable outwardly - it's only because we, the audience, know that it's a manipulative act that it seems devious.

True. Hard to realize how hostile Frank is if not the series being focused on him. He has been openly hostile when he has to be plenty. However all those instances were either the lack of consequences, use of intimidation etc. I always though he was SO last for those reasons. I guess he acts 'that' way because he understands the footing he has and the SO consequences he will have, rather than a general disregard for SO.

Yeah she is. She's very cold and distant. I don't think she's ambitious enough to be a 3. She doesn't seem concerned enough about forwarding herself, and is just being supportive of Frank in that. She has personal goals, but they aren't about gaining success for herself or making her mark; they're about changing and improving things that matter to her. It seems more important to her to have control over the plan of action than it is for her to be in the spotlight or to earn respect/admiration. Her notoriety is just a means to an end to her.

Have you read this description of 8w9? It seems so like her to me:

And here's a description of a 8 Sp/So:

Dammit I was absolutely convinced she was a 3w4.

I will move these topics to the relevant threads later. Don't want these to go unnoticed.

 

[Southern Kross]

Definitely stuff they value.

Then perhaps we could venture saying you're not a Sp-first.

If I had to take a wild stab at typing, I would say you strike me as a Sx-last, probably leaning towards a So/Sp.

It is believable. I also remember you saying that the primary function is there to support/supply the secondary function. So/Sp - So is used to accomplish Sp needs or something.

Yeah, that's another theory, but it's been semi-established by others. The secondary instinct is used to facilitate a sense of security for the primary instinct.

Well I don't feel a need to closely preserve it, but I do feel jealous from time to time. I think it's more strategic - where I stand and what influence I have over them rather than a genuine need to bond. But I do feel jealous - like I said - from time to time.

Yes, but just be aware that this stuff is not that literal. It's not like Sx-firsts are conscious of a need to feel bonded when they feel jealous. They just (perhaps unconsciously) experience a sense of instability in the relationship. They may simply feel that when they're away from that person that their relationship is threatened.

 

[Coriolis]

Can't wait for the unrest to begin? Haha you are right in your assumption that i am not so, though i do seek (as anyone) excitement. I wonder whether [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] relates to this? Coriolis do you wake up in the morning and expect to have an 'awfully bit adventure' full of fun and a lot of turmoil too; like peter pan? (Ps - I've never read Peter Pan, so I don't know whether that's what he want.)

I think of my life more in terms of accomplishment than either adventure or excitement. I wake up in the morning thinking of all the things I want to get done in the day, and how I plan to go about them. Certain things I look forward to as a challenge, or a learning experience, or an opportunity to engage with people I enjoy and respect. Other things are mere drudgery to get out of the way in minimal time.

Excitement is often a welcome by-product of an especially productive or instructive day. I might solve a particularly troublesome problem, or get everything in the lab to work just right, or do an activity with school kids and have alot of eager learners with great questions in the group. Adventure comes when something unexpected and significant happens. Whether good or bad, if I learn something in the end and have a generally decent outcome, I consider the experience worthwhile.

(Sorry no help on identifying your enneatype, but you called me out on this question, so here's my answer.)