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Cognitive Functions + Socionics + Enneagram

Emperor Enigma

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3w4
Yes, I consider this my ultimate "What's my type" thread. This is where I hope to end my tempestuous indecision.
I'm against using questionnaires to ascertain my personality type at this point because I believe they do not encompass the entirety of an individual's character. In essence, the questions are not adequate. Besides, they rely too heavily on stability, under the assumption that there is no changeability. For example, my answers to some questions today might very well differ from my answers to those same questions tomorrow. It's possible. But the questionnaires do not take that into account. At the same time, I don't think describing myself would work. I introspect a lot, but I doubt my ability to verbalize those introspective leaps. I'm not being boastful, but I think my character is too complex (maybe, even in a negative way) to delineate in words. I might even be Bipolar. In fact, before my acquaintance with typology, I used to believe I was suffering from the Bipolar Disorder. I also think I have social anxiety, which may make my behavior, both externally and internally, contradictory. But enough about mental illnesses. At the very least, I'll just attempt some tests, even though I know they're unreliable, just to get things going.








Basically, just ask me questions. Or ask to me tell you about my opinions on things.
[MENTION=16320]Stephano[/MENTION] [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION] [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION] [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]
You were of great assistance the last time.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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[MENTION=21404]Emperor Enigma[/MENTION]

Do you project your ethical values on the environment, or do you project your logical rationalizations on the environment?

Ex.

I hate people who are violent. When someone does something violent, I criticize them and attempt to correct them according to how they should be acting.

I have a map in my head of how things should be working, and when things aren't working according to the model, there is something wrong with what is being studied in the environment that must be corrected to make it follow the model. Facts to suit theories over theories to suit facts.
 

Emperor Enigma

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Enneagram
3w4
[MENTION=21404]Emperor Enigma[/MENTION]

Do you project your ethical values on the environment, or do you project your logical rationalizations on the environment?

Ex.

I hate people who are violent. When someone does something violent, I criticize them and attempt to correct them according to how they should be acting.

I have a map in my head of how things should be working, and when things aren't working according to the model, there is something wrong with what is being studied in the environment that must be corrected to make it follow the model. Facts to suit theories over theories to suit facts.

Logical rationalizations, definitely. I have a tendency to make up theories on the spot and report my conclusions to my friends. Of course, those theories are often designed to explain the real world, particularly behavorial patterns and psychological motivations, so they might be incorrectly interpreted as ethical values as well. I remember as a child, I had a knack for categorizing. I still do, of course. I also had an internal moral compass that was influenced by my parents. Soon, the moral compass was transformed into an internal system, but the morals themselves were analyzed and then abandoned. So basically, as a child, my internal system accommodated the moral values of my parents because they were obviously my first sources of information. My first principles and rules. I follow my own rules. I only talk about my ethical values when I'm highly emotional.

That's interesting. In my case, I tweak the model. There will be preliminary skepticism, of course. Can this be Te vs Ti? You influence the environment in accordance with your model while I attempt to tweak the model in order to accommodate the change in the environment. Now that I think about, this can even apply to Fi and Fe. Both Thinking and Feeling working in tandem. Wow.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Logical rationalizations, definitely. I have a tendency to make up theories on the spot and report my conclusions to my friends. Of course, those theories are often designed to explain the real world, particularly behavorial patterns and psychological motivations, so they might be incorrectly interpreted as ethical values as well. I remember as a child, I had a knack for categorizing. I still do, of course. I also had an internal moral compass that was influenced by my parents. Soon, the moral compass was transformed into an internal system. So basically, as a child, my internal system accommodated the moral values of my parents because they were obviously my first sources of information. I only talk about my ethical values when I'm highly emotional.

Was the moral compass arisen from subjective rationalization and own preferences on ethical matters, or arisen from external ethical frameworks that were internalized?

Do you impose your framework on the world? The world should be working this way (either ethically or logically). Juxtaposing the other method, which is to throw out theories that do not suit the observable, present reality of the environment (The world, evidently, isn't working this way).

Do you see your internal framework of either ethical or logical rationalizations as guidelines or dogma? Must the environment be subjected to your framework at all costs, or can you give the environment some leeway depending on circumstances and make yourself appear ever so slightly hypocritical?
 

Emperor Enigma

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3w4
Was the moral compass arisen from subjective rationalization and own preferences on ethical matters, or arisen from external ethical frameworks that were internalized?

Do you impose your framework on the world? The world should be working this way. Juxtaposing the other method, which is to throw out theories that do not suit the observable, present reality of the environment (The world, evidently, isn't working this way).

Do you see your internal framework of either ethical or logical rationalizations as guidelines or dogma? Must the environment be subjected to your framework at all costs, or can you give the environment some leeway depending on circumstances and make yourself appear ever so slightly hypocritical?

Hmmm... a combination of both, I suppose. In essence, my parents (and teachers, they were the same moralistically) fed information about their moral values to me, indirectly. The information was inserted in my model, without any analysis. Then, eventually, these bits of information would be challenged and analyzed as my experiences in the real world increased. Soon, they were deemed incongruous with my developing model and discarded. A metamorphosis of my internal system.

Not really. I was never authoritative about my framework. Rather, I would be disturbed if something violated my framework. I might defend the framework, maybe even blame the environment for a while, and then leisurely analyze my framework. It would be a gradual process. However, I'm sure I never imposed my views. For example, if a person did something that was in dissonance with my framework, I would silently degrade him instead of trying to change him. Silent judgment.

It's rather flexible. It can go either way, I think. To be honest, over the past few years, my framework has been deteriorating. Maybe it's because I've underwent a lot of changes. It's high school, after all. Or maybe my perceiving functions are developing. I'm more of a spectator than a judge nowadays. Like a sponge, some would say. And yes, there are times when I would do a 180 and become a hypocrite. But subsequently, after my "resurrection", my framework would be strengthened.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Hmmm... a combination of both, I suppose. In essence, my parents (and teachers, they were the same moralistically) fed information about their moral values to me, indirectly. The information was inserted in my model, without any analysis. Then, eventually, these bits of information would be challenged and analyzed. Soon, they were deemed incongruous with my developing model and discarded. A metamorphosis of my internal system.

Not really. I was never authoritative about my framework. Rather, I would be disturbed if something violated my framework. I might defend the framework, maybe even blame the environment for a while, and then leisurely analyze my framework. It would be a gradual process. However, I'm sure I never imposed my views. For example, if a person did something that was in dissonance with my framework, I would silently degrade him instead of trying to change him. Silent judgment.

It's rather flexible. It can go either way, I think. To be honest, over the past few years, my framework has been deteriorating. Maybe it's because I've underwent a lot of changes. It's high school, after all. Or maybe my perceiving functions are developing. I'm more of a spectator than a judge nowadays. And yes, there are times when I would do a 180 and become a hypocrite. But subsequently, after my "resurrection", my framework would be strengthened.

I think the Fi I've been seeing is Ti/Fe axis. Fe take in external ethical frameworks, Ti systematizes them to categorize ethics logically based not on personal preference but on logical sense.

The last paragraph ensures Ji Auxiliary.

ENTP - ENTp-Ti

or less likely,

ENFP - ENFp-Fi
 

Emperor Enigma

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3w4
I think the Fi I've been seeing is Ti/Fe axis. Fe take in external ethical frameworks, Ti systematizes them to categorize ethics logically based not on personal preference but on logical sense.

The last paragraph ensures Ji Auxiliary.

ENTP - ENTp-Ti

or less likely,

ENFP - ENFp-Fi

Thank you for your assistance! Hmmm... seems like I'm an ENTP, after all. Or at least an ENxP but yes, Ti-Fe seems more plausible. I suppose my Ne keeps insisting that I look for more perspectives and alternatives, which can explain why I'm so indecisive in general.
By the way, would it be accurate to say that Te sees the world as a malleable space which can be influenced? Additionally, I would also like to know what Si is like as an inferior or dual-seeking function. Can it explain the sporadic blissful bursts of bodily sensations I get while listening to music or watching a movie? I also have a tendency to indulge excessively, mostly in times of stress.
However, I'm still rather skeptical about the characterization of Ne as an inventor who can generate thousands of possibilities at a time. I think it's clear as crystal that I'm an ENTP now (or at the very least, an xNxP), but that little nugget still bothers me.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Thank you for your assistance! Hmmm... seems like I'm an ENTP, after all. Or at least an ENxP but yes, Ti-Fe seems more plausible. I suppose my Ne keeps insisting that I look for more perspectives and alternatives, which can explain why I'm so indecisive in general.
By the way, would it be accurate to say that Te sees the world as a malleable space which can be influenced? Additionally, I would also like to know what Si is like as an inferior or dual-seeking function. Can it explain the sporadic blissful bursts of bodily sensations I get while listening to music or watching a movie? I also have a tendency to indulge excessively, mostly in times of stress.
However, I'm still rather skeptical about the characterization of Ne as an inventor who can generate thousands of possibilities at a time. I think it's clear as crystal that I'm an ENTP now (or at the very least, an xNxP), but that little nugget still bothers me.

The bodily sensations you get that are blissful with music or movies is probably ASMR and is at the present time unrelated to type. It affects a percentage of the population that I can't recall at the present time, and I have it as well.

The ENTp should experience Te as an unconscious voice attempting to justify failures with Fi (Te/Fi axis). Furthermore, it provides an alternate perspective from the usual Ne-Ti Possibility Efficient Categorization to Ne-Te Possibility Efficient Application.

Think of Ne as being able to see the hypothetical potential of the environment under ideal circumstances. The power of the environment's possibility (Ne) rather than the power of the environment's actuality (Se).

Irrational Types are characterized by indecision. Ergo, the indecisive types would be ENTP, INTJ, ENFP, INFJ, ESTP, ISTJ, ESFP, ISFJ (in JCF, of course).

Si inferior will lead to comfortable indulgence of bodily sensations under stress, excessively rewarding the stressed out ego with comfortable, familiar surroundings.
 

Emperor Enigma

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The bodily sensations you get that are blissful with music or movies is probably ASMR and is at the present time unrelated to type. It affects a percentage of the population that I can't recall at the present time, and I have it as well.

The ENTp should experience Te as an unconscious voice attempting to justify failures with Fi (Te/Fi axis). Furthermore, it provides an alternate perspective from the usual Ne-Ti Possibility Efficient Categorization to Ne-Te Possibility Efficient Application.

Think of Ne as being able to see the hypothetical potential of the environment under ideal circumstances. The power of the environment's possibility (Ne) rather than the power of the environment's actuality (Se).

Irrational Types are characterized by indecision. Ergo, the indecisive types would be ENTP, INTJ, ENFP, INFJ, ESTP, ISTJ, ESFP, ISFJ (in JCF, of course).

Si inferior will lead to comfortable indulgence of bodily sensations under stress, excessively rewarding the stressed out ego with comfortable, familiar surroundings.

Interesting.

No wonder my mind tends to go off on nostalgic adventures full of glorious reminiscences during such hard times.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Interesting.

No wonder my mind tends to go off on nostalgic adventures full of glorious reminiscences during such hard times.

Since Si inferior is an unconscious function primarily, it should lead you to unconsciously gravitate toward familiar surroundings, and sensorial pleasures with memories and attachments, and to be concerned about bodily functions (juxtaposing Role Si, which would see disparaging bodily function as trite and a dead-weight). Furthermore, Si is seen as a goal of sorts, to eventually surround yourself with a comfortable environment that complements your Ne. Socionics, for instance, says that this can best be accomplished by finding a SEI partner that will provide the comfortable environment for you while you provide the SEI partner with exciting abstract possibilities and hypothetical potential, while traditional JCF and MBTI says that this can be accomplished by developing the self, recognizing the unconscious Si drive and paying it heed.

By the way, ASMR is apparently said to affect around the same percentage of the population as Synesthesia does, 2-5 percent, and some consider it to be a type of Synesthesia. I would assume x -> Touch.
 

Emperor Enigma

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Since Si inferior is an unconscious function primarily, it should lead you to unconsciously gravitate toward familiar surroundings, and sensorial pleasures with memories and attachments, and to be concerned about bodily functions (juxtaposing Role Si, which would see disparaging bodily function as trite and a dead-weight). Furthermore, Si is seen as a goal of sorts, to eventually surround yourself with a comfortable environment that complements your Ne. Socionics, for instance, says that this can best be accomplished by finding a SEI partner that will provide the comfortable environment for you while you provide the SEI partner with exciting abstract possibilities and hypothetical potential, while traditional JCF and MBTI says that this can be accomplished by developing the self, recognizing the unconscious Si drive and paying it heed.

That was quite informative, thank you for your help. I think my mother is an ESE or ESFJ (close enough to SEI) and I can certainly discern the dynamics of our relationship in such a way. As a matter of fact, she has often jested about how she is essentially my cook. One could even say that her Ti dual-seeking function is manifested in her tendency to consult knowledgeable people for help. She's always asking me to help her solve the simplest problems. Also tends be very protective of me. For example, whenever I go out, my mother would caution me about literally everything and keep asking me whether I had everything I needed before going out (even if it's just a mobile phone, but then again, I also tend to lose such things just as easily). She would also get highly anxious about the future. Till now, I thought it was only a motherly thing. Of course, there's also the dynamic about advising me on how to behave in social situations.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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That was quite informative, thank you for your help. I think my mother is an ESE or ESFJ (close enough to SEI) and I can certainly discern the dynamics of our relationship in such a way. As a matter of fact, she has often jested about how she is essentially my cook. One could even say that her Ti dual-seeking function is manifested in her tendency to consult knowledgeable people for help. She's always asking me to help her solve the simplest problems. Also tends be very protective of me. For example, whenever I go out, my mother would caution me about literally everything and keep asking me whether I had everything I needed before going out. She would also get highly anxious about the future. Till now, I thought it was only a motherly thing. Of course, there's also the dynamic about advising me on how to behave in social situations.

Which should be seen by the ILE (ENTp) as being helpful in small increments but a bit overboard due to the nature of Mobilizing :Fe:.

IEE (ENFp), on the other hand, would see it as unnecessary, as it is already 'known' to the self and is seen as obvious but is also simultaneously ignored and deemed somewhat tedious.
 

Emperor Enigma

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Which should be seen by the ILE (ENTp) as being helpful in small increments but a bit overboard due to the nature of Mobilizing :Fe:.

IEE (ENFp), on the other hand, would see it as unnecessary, as it is already 'known' to the self and is seen as obvious but is also simultaneously ignored and deemed somewhat tedious.

Yes. That was perfect because I completely identified with the statement.
Although, I relate equally well to the IEE one. Now that I think about, I don't actually relate to the context of the second statement. I relate to the idea of it. Being told something which you deem unnecessary because you already know it. Now, what kind of information is to be considered here? Let me introspect. Oh yes, it happens whenever my father discusses about my future plans with me. It's like, he's just repeating what I'd already thought about a long time ago. He tries to make plans and spell them out, but I've already made them myself, in my mind. It also irritates me because I feel like he's stealing my ideas or plans and taking credit for them, haha. I also don't like it when someone else makes my plans for me. I prefer to make them myself. Ni-Te? Foreseeing events or thinking of ideas (Ni) and then making plans to implement them or act on the perceived foresight or vision (Te)?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Yes. That was perfect because I completely identified with the statement.
Although, I relate equally well to the IEE one. Now that I think about, I don't actually relate to the context of the second statement. I relate to the idea of it. Being told something which you deem unnecessary because you already know it. Now, what kind of information is to be considered here? Let me introspect. Oh yes, it happens whenever my father discusses about my future plans with me. It's like, he's just repeating what I'd already thought about a long time ago. He tries to make plans and spell them out, but I've already made them myself, in my mind. It also irritates me because I feel like he's stealing my ideas or plans and taking credit for them, haha. I also don't like it when someone else makes my plans for me. I prefer to make them myself.

And that would be :Ni: Ignoring/Observant primarily. (Anti-Hero Complex, Shadow Dominant function)

With the IEE one, 'known' is a facade, the IEE doesn't typically engage :Fe: due to a lack of care, and assumes that it 'knows' :Fe: matters when in actuality it understands basic :Fe: rather than the entire function, especially since the function is in the unconscious block.
 

Emperor Enigma

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And that would be :Ni: Ignoring/Observant primarily. (Anti-Hero Complex, Shadow Dominant function)

With the IEE one, 'known' is a facade, the IEE doesn't typically engage :Fe: due to a lack of care, and assumes that it 'knows' :Fe: matters when in actuality it understands basic :Fe: rather than the entire function, especially since the function is in the unconscious block.

Same here. When my father does get to the planning, I realize that my own understanding was not enough. I was either missing crucial details or underestimating the situation. It's amazing how the pieces are fitting together. It's almost artistic.
 

Stephano

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I think you are an ENFP 7 who is well integrated into type 5, like me. I got similar results when I did a functions test. I did not score as high on Ni as you, but it was on the 4th rank (Ne>Fi>Ti>Ni...).

Btw, the answers you gave on the questionaire sounded more Fi than Fe to me. I'll post the considerable ones here.
 

Emperor Enigma

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Why, thank you :cool:

I think you are an ENFP 7 who is well integrated into type 5, like me. I got similar results when I did a functions test. I did not score as high on Ni as you, but it was on the 4th rank (Ne>Fi>Ti>Ni...).

Btw, the answers you gave on the questionaire sounded more Fi than Fe to me. I'll post the considerable ones here.

Well, ENFp still remains a considerable possibility. What are your conclusions based on?
 

Stephano

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Why, thank you :cool:



Well, ENFp still remains a considerable possibility. What are your conclusions based on?

Sry, I wanted to post my arguments here, but I forgot about it. :thinking:

Emperor Enigma said:
I think about people in the sense that I contemplate how the consequences of my decisions might affect other people. Emotions do occasionally factor in my decisions. I also tend to make decisions on impulse. Oh, and of course, I'm very indecisive so I avoid making decisions in the first place.

This is the thing that made me think you're a Feeler. I mean, the question wasn't exactly about the consideration of people in your decisions. It seemed as if you were highlighting it.
I think it all comes down to ENTP vs. ENFP now. (Fi vs. Fe, Ti vs- Te)

What seems more like you?:

When I'm sad I usually show it. I'm not good at hiding my emotions. (Fe)

I don't always show my emotions. I'm easily hurt by insults and personal criticism. (Fi)

I really like to make lists or rankings. I tend to value respected people's (e.g.: scientists, etc.) theories and views on things higher than my own. (Te)

I tend to value my own thoughts and views higher than those of respected people. I have no problem with throwing over established facts or theories. (Ti)

(Btw, I think Socionics is made-up Soviet bull*hit.)
 
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