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  1. #7251
    Don't touch me. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    Hello. Thank you all for coming to my TED talk. Much like F. Scott Fitzgerald I use 17 words to say what I could with 1.

    Today I will be discussing the differences between two emos and one non-emo. AKA 4, 9, and 6. Also 8 is here as well for like 5 seconds solely for illustrative juxtaposition.

    8's live in complete and utter denial of the emo, that's why they're so "strong". 4's aestheticize and/or intellectualize (w5) the emo. 9's are overwhelmed by and adrift within the emo because they don't have the keen emotional awareness of 4's so it's numb/death and therefore 9's are just very soggy sponges. 6's know the emo exists (that's how we differentiate them from 8's and why I even brought the 8's up), they acknowledge it and immediately begin to either sublimate it (phobic) or subvert it (cp). Unlike 9's and 4's, 6's blame external factors for the emo too, so it's like their relationship to it has this more resentful characteristic to it than the dejected characteristic of 4 and 9. This is why I've noticed the negative emotions of others make 6's uncomfortable, wether they realize it or not, they tend to want to expedite the process of getting over the emotions because that is what they do themselves. I think turbulent and emotional 6's are just a rapid sucession of that pattern. Which is why they seem so capricious and things.

    Additionally, when you are an sx dom you are a 4 no matter what type you are. And that relationship is reflexive because 4's of any subtype will mistype as the sx subtype of whatever type they think they are. Similarly, when you are self-preservation, you're a 6 no matter what type you are. And when you're a 6, you're self preservation no matter what you actually are. If that makes sense. I don't know anything about social instinct because I honestly just don't care about that one. It hurts to think about it a weird way...it makes me angry and uncomfortable.

    Which brings me to the type which most commonly mistypes as a 4: sexual 6, "strength and beauty". We can differentiate between a 4 (any subtype) and a sexual 6 because 4's are the ugly duckling no matter how beautiful of a swan they may be. They are not just "I am special", they are "I am special because I am the ugliest of all the ducklings". Sexual 6 is not the ugliest duckling, they instead subscribe to conventional attractiveness and it's correlative strength within the established structure ("strength and beauty"). Sexual/counterphobic 6 is willing to move very far from the center, but not leave the entire structure the way 4's do. Instead of being weird, they'll peacock and tell about how attractive/great they are. Which implies the uncertainty they themselves feel about this.

    9 is also self-depreciating because they feel like they exist outside holy love (unconditional value) so even when they make little connections with 3 and begin to have little bursts of not low self-esteem, they won't ever be as agressive and constant about that stuff as the sx 6 because their insecurity is about ever even being able to reconnect to holy love/inherent value not just the manifestations of value or their correlation to strength. Which is why I think the idea that 9 is the most common type has some grounding, the way in which a 9 attempts to attain worth is reflected in what they attempt to embody. It opens up the type to many different manifestations rooted in the same issue (because if we look at them long enough we see the same half-hearted, two dimensional quality to that projected personality) therefore inviting diversity because the peacemaker is the only one that attempts to embody and that strips away any rigid, defined aspects to the personality. Whereas even the other two attachment types have more definition. I didn't explain that well at all but at least I get what I'm saying. This last part is not that relevant so it's ok if no one else does.

    Forever, you're just weird/feel weird because you're INFJ and at that, INFJ and a boy. Like my dad. Who you do remind me of in your patterns but not particularities. So yeah I do think you're a 6 but not because you can't decide on your type.

    TBH, I just wanted to tell someone my thoughts about this/get them down in this word salad that correctly implies I have absolutely no idea how to balance my diction or speak in a way that's very comprehensible any more for some reason. So yeah, this isn't an attempt to convice any of you of anything.







    Now, someone tell me things about my type. I don't know why no one ever wants to tell me things about my type. But I suspect it's because I don't have a personality.
    That is actually very insightful.
    You are like the quiet nerd in the back of the classroom that nobody knows the name of. (insert that one picture of my choir class in high school where the yearbook team literally didn't know my name and just left a dash instead)
    You are Will Hunting.
    dead·pan
    /ˈded,pan/
    adjective: deliberately impassive or expressionless.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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  2. #7252
    I decay Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    Hello. Thank you all for coming to my TED talk. Much like F. Scott Fitzgerald I use 17 words to say what I could with 1.

    Today I will be discussing the differences between two emos and one non-emo. AKA 4, 9, and 6. Also 8 is here as well for like 5 seconds solely for illustrative juxtaposition.

    8's live in complete and utter denial of the emo, that's why they're so "strong". 4's aestheticize and/or intellectualize (w5) the emo. 9's are overwhelmed by and adrift within the emo because they don't have the keen emotional awareness of 4's so it's numb/death and therefore 9's are just very soggy sponges. 6's know the emo exists (that's how we differentiate them from 8's and why I even brought the 8's up), they acknowledge it and immediately begin to either sublimate it (phobic) or subvert it (cp). Unlike 9's and 4's, 6's blame external factors for the emo too, so it's like their relationship to it has this more resentful characteristic to it than the dejected characteristic of 4 and 9. This is why I've noticed the negative emotions of others make 6's uncomfortable, wether they realize it or not, they tend to want to expedite the process of getting over the emotions because that is what they do themselves. I think turbulent and emotional 6's are just a rapid sucession of that pattern. Which is why they seem so capricious and things.

    Additionally, when you are an sx dom you are a 4 no matter what type you are. And that relationship is reflexive because 4's of any subtype will mistype as the sx subtype of whatever type they think they are. Similarly, when you are self-preservation, you're a 6 no matter what type you are. And when you're a 6, you're self preservation no matter what you actually are. If that makes sense. I don't know anything about social instinct because I honestly just don't care about that one. It hurts to think about it a weird way...it makes me angry and uncomfortable.

    Which brings me to the type which most commonly mistypes as a 4: sexual 6, "strength and beauty". We can differentiate between a 4 (any subtype) and a sexual 6 because 4's are the ugly duckling no matter how beautiful of a swan they may be. They are not just "I am special", they are "I am special because I am the ugliest of all the ducklings". Sexual 6 is not the ugliest duckling, they instead subscribe to conventional attractiveness and it's correlative strength within the established structure ("strength and beauty"). Sexual/counterphobic 6 is willing to move very far from the center, but not leave the entire structure the way 4's do. Instead of being weird, they'll peacock and tell about how attractive/great they are. Which implies the uncertainty they themselves feel about this.

    9 is also self-depreciating because they feel like they exist outside holy love (unconditional value) so even when they make little connections with 3 and begin to have little bursts of not low self-esteem, they won't ever be as agressive and constant about that stuff as the sx 6 because their insecurity is about ever even being able to reconnect to holy love/inherent value not just the manifestations of value or their correlation to strength. Which is why I think the idea that 9 is the most common type has some grounding, the way in which a 9 attempts to attain worth is reflected in what they attempt to embody. It opens up the type to many different manifestations rooted in the same issue (because if we look at them long enough we see the same half-hearted, two dimensional quality to that projected personality) therefore inviting diversity because the peacemaker is the only one that attempts to embody and that strips away any rigid, defined aspects to the personality. Whereas even the other two attachment types have more definition. I didn't explain that well at all but at least I get what I'm saying. This last part is not that relevant so it's ok if no one else does.

    Forever, you're just weird/feel weird because you're INFJ and at that, INFJ and a boy. Like my dad. Who you do remind me of in your patterns but not particularities. So yeah I do think you're a 6 but not because you can't decide on your type.

    TBH, I just wanted to tell someone my thoughts about this/get them down in this word salad that correctly implies I have absolutely no idea how to balance my diction or speak in a way that's very comprehensible any more for some reason. So yeah, this isn't an attempt to convice any of you of anything.







    Now, someone tell me things about my type. I don't know why no one ever wants to tell me things about my type. But I suspect it's because I don't have a personality.
    Do you get along with your Dad?

  3. #7253
    The Revenant Lady Lazarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Do you get along with your Dad?
    Hmm, kind of. But mostly out of avoidance. I don't have time to visit him very often though so it's not all on purpose. I think my dad is one of the very few people I'm scared of. We get mad the same way.

    But yeah, it wasn't like an insult, just to be clear. And you're not a carbon copy or anything. I don't think you'd do some of the stuff he's done, it's just the overall pattern that's similar.

    Make thick my blood.
    Stop up the access and passage to remorse,
    That no compunctious visitings of nature
    Shake my fell purpose, nor keep peace between
    The effect and it!


  4. #7254
    I decay Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    Hmm, kind of. But mostly out of avoidance. I don't have time to visit him very often though so it's not all on purpose. I think my dad is one of the very few people I'm scared of. We get mad the same way.

    But yeah, it wasn't like an insult, just to be clear. And you're not a carbon copy or anything. I don't think you'd do some of the stuff he's done, it's just the overall pattern that's similar.
    I see and thanks for discerning the assumptions that could've been made. I'm sorry that you couldn't be closer with your father.

    Would you say I'm more phobic or counter phobic and which wing would I most likely have in your opinion?

  5. #7255
    The Revenant Lady Lazarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    I see and thanks for discerning the assumptions that could've been made. I'm sorry that you couldn't be closer with your father.

    Would you say I'm more phobic or counter phobic and which wing would I most likely have in your opinion?
    No problem, when I am insulting people I want them to know I am so I don't do that entire ambiguous thing. And it's ok.

    I think you're counterphobic and possibly wing 7. Although I could see w5, because you don't have that entire frenetic energy thing going on that w7 does. I also think you're sx/so and that potentially could be what makes you peppy and w7-ish seeming. I also think you're more detached in a way than most w7 people, even though they're pretty detached too. Like there's this weird asymptotic thing going on underneath the surface. Reactivity just masks it.

    Make thick my blood.
    Stop up the access and passage to remorse,
    That no compunctious visitings of nature
    Shake my fell purpose, nor keep peace between
    The effect and it!


  6. #7256
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    @Survive & Stay Free I think you're an IxFP. I've seen way more instances of you valuing Fi over Te than vice versa. I'm honestly thinking INFP. I recently had a conversation on Discord about tertiary functions and how people act when they feel attacked (tertiary function acts im defense), and I think you latch onto Si rather than Ne when in distress.
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  7. #7257
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    @Survive & Stay Free I think you're an IxFP. I've seen way more instances of you valuing Fi over Te than vice versa. I'm honestly thinking INFP. I recently had a conversation on Discord about tertiary functions and how people act when they feel attacked (tertiary function acts im defense), and I think you latch onto Si rather than Ne when in distress.
    If an ETJ doesn't start to look a bit IFP after being alive for many years, frankly, I'd think there was something wrong with them. Undeveloped. This post might help you understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post

    You are correct that Nardi's work, especially his EEG work, has shown how dynamic the personality is, that people's minds grow and change over time, but it also shows that this "road map" idea of function theory might have something to it. He studied several middle-age INFJs and found that they all had EEG patterns that resembled those of typical ISTPs. The INFJ patterns were still there, but they were more "quiet" than he'd seen in college-age INFJs. In other words, the INFJs were still solidly INFJ, and had their INFJ traits, but they were now in their later years developing ISTP traits. This is in line with the idea that one tends to develop tertiary and inferior functions in later years. For the INFJ, those would be Ti and Se, which when taken as a dominant/auxiliary pair is in line with ISTP.

  8. #7258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If an ETJ doesn't start to look a bit IFP after being alive for many years, frankly, I'd think there was something wrong with them. Undeveloped. This post might help you understand:
    Agreed but usually the actual type is seen more, no?

  9. #7259
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    Agreed but usually the actual type is seen more, no?
    It's fluid, kiddo. We develop. To claim you see more X, Y or Z in a person is fine but that doesn't make it their type. Case in point - a bunch of us were in a thread years ago and the discussion was about kids not showing up for music practice at school. I'm the ENTJ, but I'm not the one who sounded like the hard ass. My position was if the kids weren't passionate about being there for the music, then they shouldn't even be there to begin with. You don't beat kids into liking something. Guess who did sound like a hard ass in the thread? The ENFP, who was a buddy of mine. I used to tease her that she sounded like a goddamn control freak but what I liked most about her was, her consciousness of it. She used to say she had a "baby STJ" inside her. And she did. She'd bop all over the forum bonking people on the head with her hammer. I miss her. She was really into theory, far more than most ENFPs around here.
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  10. #7260
    Fabula rasa Kas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It's fluid, kiddo. We develop. To claim you see more X, Y or Z in a person is fine but that doesn't make it their type. Case in point - a bunch of us were in a thread years ago and the discussion was about kids not showing up for music practice at school. I'm the ENTJ, but I'm not the one who sounded like the hard ass. My position was if the kids weren't passionate about being there for the music, then they shouldn't even be there to begin with. You don't beat kids into liking something. Guess who did sound like a hard ass in the thread? The ENFP, who was a buddy of mine. I used to tease her that she sounded like a goddamn control freak but what I liked most about her was, her consciousness of it. She used to say she had a "baby STJ" inside her. And she did. She'd bop all over the forum bonking people on the head with her hammer. I miss her. She was really into theory, far more than most ENFPs around here.
    I think every NFP has baby STJ in them- the matter is right subject/ situation and how much they will show or hide it. Funny how much people are shocked when I start to boss around.
    “The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes." A.C. Doyle

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