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  1. #6621
    Glam Fool Stell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Sooo...I guess it depends on how you interpret the social instinct, the extent to which it involves "reaching out to others" and "keeping up" vs having interests in larger society, as well as the role the secondary instinct actually plays. I admit, it has me stumped. If you go by issues I need to work on though, as well as the simplest answer, then I'm better served by typing as sx/sp, as you have rightly alluded to.
    I can relate to that kind of relationship with Sx and So.

    While the general and non-type-specific definition of So doesn't really resonate with me too much and fits as the overlooked "blind spot", the 4-specific So descriptions are a massive elephant in the room and probably always will be whether or not I use them to type again or not. For instance, I'll just drop this here. Mostly where the social 4 has fewer "anti-shame" defenses than the other two variants, can err by being too transparent about that vulnerability (while Sp and Sx would guard themselves more), and is given to social comparison. Not so much the one about the 4 as a social critic, though if you are close enough to me that I'd trust you with my anger, I do have some...passionate...things to say about those matters.

    On the other hand, Sx is a hard sell if you're just looking at my behavior. I'm far from 8-like. However, what the dissonance between Sx's meaning as a dominant instinct and my behavior would have to imply if it were my dominant, is true and needs to be seen and dealt with. It's a little sickening to think that I've treated my needs that way, but it's a fact. While it could be easier to explain myself as a different type, the impetus then to face this habit of pushing back on my desires and real traits would be lost. As you say, I'm better served by the way I type now.

    And yeah, contrary to popular images of the type, my fight with the Sx instinct precludes long-term relationships a lot more often than it draws me toward such a thing.

    I guess I'm impressed by how many people here apparently don't go by behavior alone to judge type, because that was something I really struggled with while in the process of typing myself.
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  2. #6622
    Epic Loser Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    I can relate to that kind of relationship with Sx and So.

    While the general and non-type-specific definition of So doesn't really resonate with me too much and fits as the overlooked "blind spot", the 4-specific So descriptions are a massive elephant in the room and probably always will be whether or not I use them to type again or not. For instance, I'll just drop this here. Mostly where the social 4 has fewer "anti-shame" defenses than the other two variants, can err by being too transparent about that vulnerability (while Sp and Sx would guard themselves more), and is given to social comparison. Not so much the one about the 4 as a social critic, though if you are close enough to me that I'd trust you with my anger, I do have some...passionate...things to say about those matters.
    Not knowing you personally irl, I can't comment on any of that. Definitely worth looking into more closely if you feel there's confusion, however.

    On the other hand, Sx is a hard sell if you're just looking at my behavior. I'm far from 8-like. However, what the dissonance between Sx's meaning as a dominant instinct and my behavior would have to imply if it were my dominant, is true and needs to be seen and dealt with. It's a little sickening to think that I've treated my needs that way, but it's a fact. While it could be easier to explain myself as a different type, the impetus then to face this habit of pushing back on my desires and real traits would be lost. As you say, I'm better served by the way I type now.
    Same. I'm only starting to see the damage I did to myself for so many years. Breath-taking. It is possible to totally act against one's instinct...this is typically discussed in relation to social, but happens equally to the other instincts I guess. At least I am proof of a screwed up sx.

    The only further thing I can suggest is that you go by motivations, not behaviors or descriptions. I find the "27 subtypes" thingie to be irrelevant for typing purposes at best, and at worst downright misleading. I don't identify with ANY of my subtype descriptions, for instance, and the ones I do identify with aren't the ones I am, etc.

    And yeah, contrary to popular images of the type, my fight with the Sx instinct precludes long-term relationships a lot more often than it draws me toward such a thing.
    Any time I see someone struggling with relationships, I think that makes Sx-first as easily as sx-last. In my case, I went into denial and still spent years wondering what was wrong with me, and many more years regretting myself. The fact remains, though, that there's a huge emotional hangup around these issues...thank God someone saw it before I did and pointed it out.

    I guess I'm impressed by how many people here apparently don't go by behavior alone to judge type, because that was something I really struggled with while in the process of typing myself.
    Ha ha ha...we all start off typing by behaviors. I spent like 15 years doing that. That's why it took me so long to figure myself out too. The people on TypoC seem older and better-informed, though.

  3. #6623
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    You vibe SP to me
    lol i wish but i'm way too Ne to be one like i said give me examples via functions not stereotypes

  4. #6624
    Senior Member Yuu's Avatar
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    I wish I even understood what these sx/so instinct stuff was. Most people I've asked about it have said " Eh, scionics is bull don't waste your time" but it seems like many people use them a lot. Maybe I should look into it just so I can understand what people are saying.

  5. #6625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I wish I even understood what these sx/so instinct stuff was. Most people I've asked about it have said " Eh, scionics is bull don't waste your time" but it seems like many people use them a lot. Maybe I should look into it just so I can understand what people are saying.
    Instinctual variants aren't socionics related, they're enneagram related.

    The Enneagram: Detailed Instinctual Stackings by Type – from ocean-moonshine.net | | The RunningFather Blog
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  6. #6626
    eh cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    I can relate to that kind of relationship with Sx and So.

    While the general and non-type-specific definition of So doesn't really resonate with me too much and fits as the overlooked "blind spot", the 4-specific So descriptions are a massive elephant in the room and probably always will be whether or not I use them to type again or not. For instance, I'll just drop this here. Mostly where the social 4 has fewer "anti-shame" defenses than the other two variants, can err by being too transparent about that vulnerability (while Sp and Sx would guard themselves more), and is given to social comparison. Not so much the one about the 4 as a social critic, though if you are close enough to me that I'd trust you with my anger, I do have some...passionate...things to say about those matters.

    On the other hand, Sx is a hard sell if you're just looking at my behavior. I'm far from 8-like. However, what the dissonance between Sx's meaning as a dominant instinct and my behavior would have to imply if it were my dominant, is true and needs to be seen and dealt with. It's a little sickening to think that I've treated my needs that way, but it's a fact. While it could be easier to explain myself as a different type, the impetus then to face this habit of pushing back on my desires and real traits would be lost. As you say, I'm better served by the way I type now.

    And yeah, contrary to popular images of the type, my fight with the Sx instinct precludes long-term relationships a lot more often than it draws me toward such a thing.

    I guess I'm impressed by how many people here apparently don't go by behavior alone to judge type, because that was something I really struggled with while in the process of typing myself.
    The only reason I began self typing as so-dom was after reading type 4 specific descriptions, as it combined with 4 described most of my significant hangups quite perfectly. I think many of the poor instinct tests and descriptions give a distinctive extroverted+ enneagram 1/3 flavor to defining so-dom. So, I don't really relate to any of those descriptions. Too, and this goes with 4, I'm actually pretty counterphobic in relation to so stuff. I yearn for a sense of community but I don't seek it out because I have had too many perceived failings or 'don't relate to this' issues in the past. The element of so dom I do relate to though is noticing social 'hierarchies' in a work environment, school setting, etc.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #6627
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The only reason I began self typing as so-dom was after reading type 4 specific descriptions, as it combined with 4 described most of my significant hangups quite perfectly. I think many of the poor instinct tests and descriptions give a distinctive extroverted+ enneagram 1/3 flavor to defining so-dom. So, I don't really relate to any of those descriptions. Too, and this goes with 4, I'm actually pretty counterphobic in relation to so stuff. I yearn for a sense of community but I don't seek it out because I have had too many perceived failings or 'don't relate to this' issues in the past. The element of so dom I do relate to though is noticing social 'hierarchies' in a work environment, school setting, etc.
    What do you mean by community?

    Do you feel like you want to be a part of something, but you can't because you see yourself to NOT value what others value in life ...because you're so inherently different from the norm?
    You are so arbitrary.

  8. #6628
    eh cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    What do you mean by community?

    Do you feel like you want to be a part of something to be like everyone else, but you can't because you see yourself to NOT value what others value in life?
    Sure, part of the issue with all 4's is an inclination to believe that they are somehow 'different than' everyone else, set apart from everyone else in some fundamental way (and not in a warm and fuzzy 'oh I'm unique' way). That's the illusion/pull any 4 will always need to fight against. Social 4 has the push/pull of desiring to find common ground/a group of like-minded people, similar values, something larger than self/outside of self, common purpose. However with 4 added to that, there's also that pushback of finding difficulty in finding that, whether self-inflicted/self-fulfilling, or simply a very unique value set that does differ from much of the 'norm'. For me I think there's a bit of both going on. I do think I have values and interests that have always been in the minority of my own peer/age group. I also have always been sensitive to social nuances and the 4 element of 'feeling different from' others makes any sort of group 'merge' difficult, or it may not even be desirable for introverts; it's always a push/pull (also as an introvert and a 4, the whole 'Group'/community desire isn't really the same as it might be for an extrovert; it's more of this abstract thing for me, maybe -- just being part of a purpose/ with people who share my way of life/ value what work towards/care about similar to what I do. ). Wanting to fit in, knowing when you don't. Seeking places to fit in.

    So it's not really wanting to 'be like everyone else', unless just generically speaking, wanting to have friends, purpose, common ground like most people want. Everyone probably desires that. When I say community it's more of in a family/close-knit sense I think. People together with a similar vision/purpose?

    There've been other so-doms on the forum in the past who have said similar, that so-dom isn't always about the stuff you see on the tests, re status, being part of tons of organizations (I think that's *a* flavor of so-dom, but certainly not an e4 flavor), it can often also be more counterphobic, more of a lifelong desire /search for/seeking out like-minded people/groups, though being aware the notion may be a bit of an illusion too, thus not really being a part of anything, just flitting around or dipping toes in and quickly retreating.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #6629
    © So Much Deeper™ Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misfortuneteller View Post
    lol i wish but i'm way too Ne to be one like i said give me examples via functions not stereotypes
    You post very little and demand I give your full cognitive explanations of it all, a vibe from me is all you're gonna get from me now.
    She can't tell the difference yet.
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  10. #6630
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Sure, part of the issue with all 4's is an inclination to believe that they are somehow 'different than' everyone else, set apart from everyone else in some fundamental way (and not in a warm and fuzzy 'oh I'm unique' way). That's the illusion/pull any 4 will always need to fight against. Social 4 has the push/pull of desiring to find common ground/a group of like-minded people, similar values, something larger than self/outside of self, common purpose. However with 4 added to that, there's also that pushback of finding difficulty in finding that, whether self-inflicted/self-fulfilling, or simply a very unique value set that does differ from much of the 'norm'. For me I think there's a bit of both going on. I do think I have values and interests that have always been in the minority of my own peer/age group. I also have always been sensitive to social nuances and the 4 element of 'feeling different from' others makes any sort of group 'merge' difficult, or it may not even be desirable for introverts; it's always a push/pull (also as an introvert and a 4, the whole 'Group'/community desire isn't really the same as it might be for an extrovert; it's more of this abstract thing for me, maybe -- just being part of a purpose/ with people who share my way of life/ value what work towards/care about similar to what I do. ). Wanting to fit in, knowing when you don't. Seeking places to fit in.

    So it's not really wanting to 'be like everyone else', unless just generically speaking, wanting to have friends, purpose, common ground like most people want. Everyone probably desires that. When I say community it's more of in a family/close-knit sense I think. People together with a similar vision/purpose?

    There've been other so-doms on the forum in the past who have said similar, that so-dom isn't always about the stuff you see on the tests, re status, being part of tons of organizations (I think that's *a* flavor of so-dom, but certainly not an e4 flavor), it can often also be more misanthropic, more of a lifelong desire /search for/seeking out like-minded people/groups, though being aware the notion may be a bit of an illusion too, thus not really being a part of anything, just flitting around or dipping toes in and quickly retreating.
    Thank you so much for sharing. I feel like this should be the description for so-dom four. I also agree a social 4s issue is about struggling to find their place in society. Whatever the 4 values, no one else seems to value. A social 4 always notices how everyone can fit in with society (whether that be hook-up culture, drug culture, marriage culture, academic culture ...whatever). And you're right ...they don't want to be like everyone else so they don't want what others have nor do they value what others value, but they do seek a sense of purpose. They care about finding meaning in the world and they wish they can connect with others who can understand their perspective/sense of meaning too. Except they may not even try to find the connection they crave because they know they will be disappointed anyway.

    I guess a social 4s struggle boils down to thinking that they cannot find what it is that they value out there in the real world?
    You are so arbitrary.
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