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Jack Flak

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Hence, if I was an ISTJ, my preference for the empirical method over that of rationalism (heavy reliance on abstract chains of reasoning ) would be obvious.
I disagree. Your intelligence grants you the gift of using logic with ease, but you still prefer concrete data and/or accepted theory and/or observation and/or the literal to new theory and/or perception and/or the figurative. Prefer. It isn't cut and dry. You don't toss Intuition by the wayside.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I disagree. Your intelligence grants you the gift of using logic with ease, but you still prefer concrete data and/or accepted theory and/or observation and/or the literal to new theory and/or perception and/or the figurative. Prefer. It isn't cut and dry. You don't toss Intuition by the wayside.

The statement that I prefer to rely on theories of others as opposed to attempting to conjure theories of my own is false.

Read Principles of Typology, especially the last chapter where I criticize Keirsey and Thomson heavily. The axioms of typology that I have established were also a result of my own thinking. I have arrived at such axioms as a result of my inquiry into Jungian typology. This led me to expound on his views (this means that I have propounded ideas that you will not find in the Psychological Types) and I have corrected a few minor errors that Jung has allowed in his system.

Such critical analysis and innovation of thought, I believe has reflected in my writings of the profiles, many of the ideas I have propounded there will not be discovered in other profiles.

Jung has already laid down the foundations of typology and many of his ideas have been discussed by other authors already. Therefore, all I can do is simply correct their errors and proceed further down the path that they have taken before me.






Or in other words, all the basic typological concepts have already been discovered. No matter how original of a thinker you are, you will not discover many, if any at all, new paths. However, you can come up with new ideas regarding the paths that have been discovered by others before, which is exactly what I have done.
 

entropie

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ok that's barely a 2:2

Jack is right about one thing: either your intuition is highly focused or you do not want to share your whole truth with us
 

SolitaryWalker

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ok that's barely a 2:2

Jack is right about one thing: either your intuition is highly focused or you do not want to share your whole truth with us

It must be highly focused because it is subjugated to my Thinking faculty.

I find it strange to regard myself as a Sensing type simply because I rely very little on concrete, sensorial observations (empirical method), but instead rely very heavily on what is most easily imagined rather than perceived through the senses.

As even Jack criticized (in CC's thread on Fi the other day) my approach for lack of affinity with the scientific method (I think empirical was the term he had in mind).)
 

entropie

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ok, fair enough. The same problem Jack has also :)
 

Jack Flak

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I say again, Mr. Wing, that you do not lack the capability of Intuition, and I'm sure you use it regularly. But it is my conclusion that your Sensing function is more potent, and it sneaks in sometimes to intercept your Intuition and say "Let's get back to business."

A statement like this, for example, is simply not a statement an INTP would make, because we prefer Intuition to Thinking, Perceiving to Judging, and must always allow for new discoveries.
Or in other words, all the basic typological concepts have already been discovered. No matter how original of a thinker you are, you will not discover many, if any at all, new paths. However, you can come up with new ideas regarding the paths that have been discovered by others before, which is exactly what I have done.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I say again, Mr. Wing, that you do not lack the capability of Intuition, and I'm sure you use it regularly. But it is my conclusion that your Sensing function is more potent, and it sneaks in sometimes to intercept your Intuition and say "Let's get back to business.".

Thinking function is what tells us to get back to business as it has a clearly outlined agenda by virtue of logical analysis. Sensing does not. Sensing just focuses our attention on our five senses and perceptions that could be derived through the exercise of the 5 senses.

A statement like this, for example, is simply not a statement an INTP would make, because we prefer Intuition to Thinking, Perceiving to Judging, and must always allow for new discoveries.

Okay, I can prefer Thinking to Intuition and be an INTJ. (Ti-Ne).
 

Jack Flak

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Thinking function is what tells us to get back to business as it has a clearly outlined agenda by virtue of logical analysis. Sensing does not. Sensing just focuses our attention on our five senses and perceptions that could be derived through the exercise of the 5 senses.
I was speaking figuratively...(hint hint)

Okay, I can prefer Thinking to Intuition and be an INTJ. (Ti-Ne).
Well, when you add the i and e to T and N, you're implying MBTI functions, which I'm not using.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Well, when you add the i and e to T and N, you're implying MBTI functions, which I'm not using.

I do not see how you can successfuly seperate functions from 'directions of functions'. In order to reject the clause of 'directions of functions' you must abrogate the distinction between Introversion and Extroversion.

This you have not done.

I was speaking figuratively...(hint hint).

You have provided no reason to believe that my thinking is in affinity with the Sensing faculty.
 

Orangey

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I do not see how you can successfuly seperate functions from 'directions of functions'. In order to reject the clause of 'directions of functions' you must abrogate the distinction between Introversion and Extroversion.

Why?
 

entropie

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Maybe BW's intuition is more reserved. And when he speaks, he has already made up his mind.

I would not call this the best of approaches to a problem, but I can clearly see that he is open to discussion.

And my ISTJ pal is only open to diskussion, if you break him
 

Jack Flak

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I do not see how you can successfuly seperate functions from 'directions of functions'. In order to reject the clause of 'directions of functions' you must abrogate the distinction between Introversion and Extroversion.

This you have not done.
You are correct. I thought I would be going too far, and also rehashing old ground by defining the difference between introversion and extroversion and how it relates to function use.

For the time being, I think it's acceptable to stack the traits. Person X is Introverted, and is Thinking/Sensing. Person Y is Extroverted, and is Intuition/Thinking, etcetera. To define a specific correlation is taking a very large step, and I hesitate because that's the kind of thing I was trying to get away from.

And my ISTJ pal is only open to diskussion, if you break him
Now you're defining ISTJs based on one person? Shame on you, entropie!
 

entropie

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That makes no sense does it ?

I wanted to say, maybe BW tries to project an aura of definiteness, to shed some security onto the topic. And that projection hides connections he has drawn beforehand.

That would be a noble cause and we will go to hell for picking him
 

SolitaryWalker

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If you say I am a Thinking type and also I am an Introvert, it means that you use Thinking primarily in the realm of Introversion.

Introvert/Extrovert distinction is primarily concerned with showing how we derive energy. In the case of the Introvert, it is through solitary contemplation, in the case of the Extrovert, it is through interaction with the external world.

Thus, if we have the concept of a Thinker and an Introvert, we maintain that the Thinker in question is most easily inspired to think when he/she is alone. When we maintain that one is an Extroverted Thinker, we claim that one is most easily inspired to Think in activities which involve interaction with the external world.

Clearly, the concept of Introversion and Extroversion specifies direction of the functions. In order to claim that functions lack directions, this concept must be abrogated.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I believe this would make him INTJ (using MBTI, not JFTI).

In MBTI notation, INTJ is Ni-Te.

Their dominant function is Intuition, the Intuition is not reserved at all in this case.

In socionics (and Jack's system) INTJ is the notation for Ti-Ne, where Intuition is reserved because it is a secondary function.
 

Jack Flak

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I wanted to say, maybe BW tries to project an aura of definiteness, to shed some security onto the topic. And that projection hides connections he has drawn beforehand.
This is the nature of an intelligent Thinking Primary. It's related to both of these things independently, for the record.

I believe this would make him INTJ (using MBTI, not JFTI).
Or ISTJ.

If you say I am a Thinking type and also I am an Introvert, it means that you use Thinking primarily in the realm of Introversion.
I would say that's likely, but it's hard to define. And I'm Intuition Primary, yet also an Introvert, but Intuition is a Perceiving function, and related to input from the outside world. My typical state is one of quiet observation and contemplation.
 

locke

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In MBTI notation, INTJ is Ni-Te.

Their dominant function is Intuition, the Intuition is not reserved at all in this case.

In socionics (and Jack's system) INTJ is the notation for Ti-Ne, where Intuition is reserved because it is a secondary function.

I think entropie meant that the expression of the intuition was reserved. You spend much of the time using your intuition introvertedly, but then once you come to a conclusion you express it with your extroverted judgement. This is the jist of MBTI, is it not?
 
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