Help Me Type My Confusing Wife!

[Mal12345]

My wife scored evenly on the "Devoted-Adventurous" scales on the Oldham test. So is she devoted, or is she adventurous? I have literally seen her mentally torn between caring for her family and her desire to seek adventure. She's extremely attached to her family, yet I've seen her having to rationalize the need to take care of them via, "I don't want to be seen as a bad mother." But the dull daily routine of it begins to wear on her after a while. As the description of the ESTP states, "They will become stifled and unhappy dealing with routine chores." She prefers leisure to housework, and wants to be complimented on the chores she does.

My wife isn't a Thinker. As an Adventurous type, she doesn't really plan the adventure to any great degree, but prefers spontaneous activity that includes others. She doesn't intentionally or accidentally hurt other people's feelings. She'll talk to me about people who piss her off rather than confronting them. She talks about confrontation but it doesn't lead to anything.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't think of ESTPs as thinkers. I don't mean that in an insulting sense. Of course they think and many are very intelligent, but they may be impatient with what you, an INTP, consider to be thinking. Certainly they use Ti to augment their dominant Se, but I think Ti can be a very instinctual, body-based function, particularly when used with Se.

I think she's ESTP.

 

[Mal12345]

I don't think of ESTPs as thinkers. I don't mean that in an insulting sense. Of course they think and many are very intelligent, but they may be impatient with what you, an INTP, consider to be thinking. Certainly they use Ti to augment their dominant Se, but I think Ti can be a very instinctual, body-based function, particularly when used with Se.

I think she's ESTP.

In my experience, ESTPs aren't very intelligent. But that's a side-issue. Ti for the ESTP type lends intellectual curiosity and introspective ponderings about life that usually play no serious role in the adventurous Se life-style.

When analyzing an auxiliary function, it's best to think of it not so much as a slave to the dominant function but as an independent function, albeit one that is not as well developed as the dominant. The ESTP possesses the natural ability of "bodily or instinctive anticipation" based on many experiences of the same or similar types. This isn't a kind of thinking, it is a kind of body-based knowing. And however playful or spontaneous the ESTP seems to be, it is intended in all seriousness. Ti, being the auxiliary function, is in reality the playful, non-serious function, as is Ne for the INTP or Fi for the ESFP. At best, Ti engages with Se when it is used to reflect on the consequences of their activities, either in hindsight or in foresight.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

In my experience, ESTPs aren't very intelligent. But that's a side-issue. Ti for the ESTP type lends intellectual curiosity and introspective ponderings about life that usually play no serious role in the adventurous Se life-style.

When analyzing an auxiliary function, it's best to think of it not so much as a slave to the dominant function but as an independent function, albeit one that is not as well developed as the dominant. The ESTP possesses the natural ability of "bodily or instinctive anticipation" based on many experiences of the same or similar types. This isn't a kind of thinking, it is a kind of body-based knowing. And however playful or spontaneous the ESTP seems to be, it is intended in all seriousness. Ti, being the auxiliary function, is in reality the playful, non-serious function, as is Ne for the INTP or Fi for the ESFP. At best, Ti engages with Se when it is used to reflect on the consequences of their activities, either in hindsight or in foresight.

I disagree (to an extent). I guess ultimately it comes down to what you're defining as intelligence. ESTPs can be very shrewd, sharp, astute individuals.

I don't think of the aux as a slave to the dominant. I think of it as an assistant and counterpart which ultimately defines, to some extent, how the dominant manifests.

 

[Mal12345]

I disagree (to an extent). I guess ultimately it comes down to what you're defining as intelligence. ESTPs can be very shrewd, sharp, astute individuals.

I don't think of the aux as a slave to the dominant. I think of it as an assistant and counterpart which ultimately defines, to some extent, how the dominant manifests.

Intelligence is measured by IQ; shrewdness is for criminals, gamblers, etc.

ESTPs are Thinkers, just as ESFPs are Feelers. So I agree in this general sense. Thinkers can neglect to include others and unintentionally step on their toes (or other body parts, as I've seen in the past). Feelers are kinder, gentler, more accommodating. Thinking and Feeling define the difference between tough-minded and tender-hearted types as defined by William James. -

"The tough think of the tender as sentimentalists and softheads. The tender feel the tough to be unrefined, callous, or brutal."

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

IQ measures abstract reasoning ability. What are your thoughts on multiple intelligences? i.e. Gardner's theory first proposed in the early 80s?

 

[BlackDog]

Some of the ESTP description fits her, such as "The ESTP gets bored with classes in which they feel they gain no useful material which can be used to get things done." But for my wife, she's not thinking about school in terms of "useful material to get things done," she's thinking in terms of ditching class. Period.

That could still be ESTP if she doesn't think there is anything useful to be gained. If she thinks it's all a waste of time, then that's a very ESTP attitude. I know one ESTP who studied in a pretty disciplined way in college, and another one who virtually never studied, instead spending time doing stuff and working.

 

[Mal12345]

That could still be ESTP if she doesn't think there is anything useful to be gained. If she thinks it's all a waste of time, then that's a very ESTP attitude. I know one ESTP who studied in a pretty disciplined way in college, and another one who virtually never studied, instead spending time doing stuff and working.

I can always go through every sentence in the ESTP descriptions one at a time, if you like.

 

[Mal12345]

IQ measures abstract reasoning ability. What are your thoughts on multiple intelligences? i.e. Gardner's theory first proposed in the early 80s?

I don't mind different kinds of intelligence, but I also don't mind being old-school.

 

[BlackDog]

Intelligence is measured by IQ; shrewdness is for criminals, gamblers, etc.

ESTPs are Thinkers, just as ESFPs are Feelers. So I agree in this general sense. Thinkers can neglect to include others and unintentionally step on their toes (or other body parts, as I've seen in the past). Feelers are kinder, gentler, more accommodating. Thinking and Feeling define the difference between tough-minded and tender-hearted types as defined by William James. -

"The tough think of the tender as sentimentalists and softheads. The tender feel the tough to be unrefined, callous, or brutal."

Here I have to say that your INTP type may be disadvantaging you. My closest friend is an INTP, and he consistently fails to see what a small role intelligence plays in most fields because it is his strong point, Ti. I overrate Ni, myself, so I am always thinking about the importance of holistic understanding and integration into other systems in whatever I study (including MBTI), when in reality this is irrelevant to most people unless they are trying to do original work, which is almost no one. But I value Ni anyway because I like it and I want to look at things that way.

Just as your Ne is a slave to your Ti, the Ti of your wife (if she's ESTP) is a slave to her Se. The difference is that if you work in a field where you can use your Ti, you are able to avoid using Ne for other purposes. The INTP I know who is a mathematician and a computer programmer talks of nothing but the intellectual implications of things, and consistently forgets that most people use a combination of other skills to get places. So, when he looked into MBTI, he decided that the Forer effect made it too unreliable to be that interesting as a system, and since he wasn't that interested in practical typing of people, he abandoned the system. He couldn't overlook theoretical problems in favor of practical considerations. He's still pretty young, of course, but possibly this is a characteristic of INTPs that lasts throughout life.

However, your wife might have had to exercise Ti for other purposes in school, for example. The world can force people to develop functions in ways they might not prefer. However, if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to live out of your dom function and aux function in a more or less pure fashion, it will be hard to realize this.

Shrewdness is what matters more in nearly everything once you pass a certain IQ threshold, depending on the field or task.

The fact that your wife has to work at being a mother strongly suggests ESTP to me. ISFP or ESFP would not parent that way. The ESTP mother I know acted very much in that way; she didn't want to be a bad mother, but she hated staying around the house.

 

[infinite]

Possibly ISTP? Because it doesn't sound much at all like the numerous ISFPs I know; they are SP, but they are serious, even melancholy (internally) people in my experience. Possibly ESFP? Only ISTP doesn't seem likely because this type in my limited experience is very introverted (though I know no female ISTPs).

I was thinking ISTP for OP's wife.

I'm female & ISTP and not extremely introverted.

In my experience, ESTPs aren't very intelligent.

Wow typism much? I was considered ESTP (or ESTp in socionics anyway) on here and I score high in IQ tests. I also score high in other tasks testing abstract reasoning ability.

But I'm sure you'll say ISTP's score much higher which is closer to being my type anyway

Ti for the ESTP type lends intellectual curiosity and introspective ponderings about life that usually play no serious role in the adventurous Se life-style.

Now why can't that Ti allow high abstract reasoning skills?

 

[Mal12345]

Here I have to say that your INTP type may be disadvantaging you. My closest friend is an INTP, and he consistently fails to see what a small role intelligence plays in most fields because it is his strong point, Ti. I overrate Ni, myself, so I am always thinking about the importance of holistic understanding and integration into other systems in whatever I study (including MBTI), when in reality this is irrelevant to most people unless they are trying to do original work, which is almost no one. But I value Ni anyway because I like it and I want to look at things that way.

Just as your Ne is a slave to your Ti, the Ti of your wife (if she's ESTP) is a slave to her Se. The difference is that if you work in a field where you can use your Ti, you are able to avoid using Ne for other purposes. The INTP I know who is a mathematician and a computer programmer talks of nothing but the intellectual implications of things, and consistently forgets that most people use a combination of other skills to get places. So, when he looked into MBTI, he decided that the Forer effect made it too unreliable to be that interesting as a system, and since he wasn't that interested in practical typing of people, he abandoned the system. He couldn't overlook theoretical problems in favor of practical considerations. He's still pretty young, of course, but possibly this is a characteristic of INTPs that lasts throughout life.

However, your wife might have had to exercise Ti for other purposes in school, for example. The world can force people to develop functions in ways they might not prefer. However, if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to live out of your dom function and aux function in a more or less pure fashion, it will be hard to realize this.

Shrewdness is what matters more in nearly everything once you pass a certain IQ threshold, depending on the field or task.

The fact that your wife has to work at being a mother strongly suggests ESTP to me. ISFP or ESFP would not parent that way. The ESTP mother I know acted very much in that way; she didn't want to be a bad mother, but she hated staying around the house.

"ESTPs are the great Doers. If you want to make something happen quickly, ask an ESTP."
https://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESTP_per.html
Nope, not my wife.

 

[BlackDog]

I can always go through every sentence in the ESTP descriptions one at a time, if you like.

See my post below. I think your type's strength is also its weakness when it comes to understanding intelligence in practice. But I could be wrong.

I am not saying ESTP is a perfect fit, but I think it makes more sense than any of the others. She seems like a T and not an F. ISFPs are great with kids; she has to work at it, and it's something that is specific to her kids, not just any kids. Again, seems like ESTP territorialism. I guess ISTP might be plausible if you think it is; I haven't seen it in action except in males, so the females could be less introverted, possibly.

 

[infinite]

The fact that your wife has to work at being a mother strongly suggests ESTP to me. ISFP or ESFP would not parent that way. The ESTP mother I know acted very much in that way; she didn't want to be a bad mother, but she hated staying around the house.

or she's a 7 soc-dom

 

[infinite]

"ESTPs are the great Doers. If you want to make something happen quickly, ask an ESTP."
https://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESTP_per.html
Nope, not my wife.

yeah but what's wrong with ISTP?

 

[BlackDog]

yeah but what's wrong with ISTP?

That's what I say. What about ISTP?

And many of my family members are ESTPs; I know them better than almost any type. They don't come across as intelligent, but actually if they apply themselves they are more intelligent than most types. They learn very fast. They cut to the point, and don't get confused with irrelevant stuff. I would pick an ESTP over an SJ or an NF or an SF when it comes to quickly figuring something out and then taking a test on it. Including INFJs.

 

[LadyLazarus]

The fact that your wife has to work at being a mother strongly suggests ESTP to me. ISFP or ESFP would not parent that way. The ESTP mother I know acted very much in that way; she didn't want to be a bad mother, but she hated staying around the house.

I'd just like to throw in that in my experience with my mother who is an ESFP, it's always been very apparent to me that she has to consciously work at being what is traditionally considered motherly.

My mother can be empathetic and expressive(not Fe expressive though) but she also posses escapist tendencies as well as comes off as usually too aggressive for the situation from my perspective. She's also pretty relaxed about her parenting, she is however very anger prone/ driven when it comes to punishments.

I think given what goes along with being Se-dominant, both of the ESP's may in general have to work harder at fulfilling the traditional role of a mother. Maybe even the Se-auxes(or at least me) as well, being that if I had children I'm almost certain I'd parent in a similar fashion, albeit slightly less aggressive and escapist.

 

[infinite]

And many of my family members are ESTPs; I know them better than almost any type. They don't come across as intelligent, but actually if they apply themselves they are more intelligent than most types. They learn very fast. They cut to the point, and don't get confused with irrelevant stuff. I would pick an ESTP over an SJ or an NF or an SF when it comes to quickly figuring something out and then taking a test on it. Including INFJs.

How does ESTP study for a test for a philosophy course?

I'm not saying an ESTP cannot do that, I want to hear from you about how they cut to the point in such topics.

 

[skylights]

ISFP

6w7, possibly 9w8

sx/so

Torn between family care and adventure... spontaneous... compassionate... rebellious but soft-hearted... little bit of a pleasure-chaser... independent... more instinctual in behavior... seems fairly sensory focused... Fi seems more like SFP than NFP, more pure evaluation than idealization...

 

[Fluorescent]

ISFP 6w7, would bet on it.

No clue why people even suggested ESFP and ISTP.
There is no way that anyone that gives an ambivert vibe is either of these two types, connecting tomboy to ISTP is selling stereotypes 101 and ESFP are the quintessential extrovert, not even a good binge on Xanax could change them so much, even after settling down. Probably writing cliches 101 here but think about it.

ISFP come in two different flavours, the brooding, artsy, humanitarian emo and the outgoing, physical, rebellious buddy. ESTP could work but this quote-> "In the positive sense, my wife has a very sweet, loving character, but she can use the sweetness to get her own way. I prefer that over those who try to use vinegar instead of honey to attract the "flies." just screams ISFP to me and 6w7 could be easily seen as outgoing, party people. They just need to recharge.
She seems pretty avoidant of conflict, being consistent in her inconsistency and letting her kids off the hook. Plus the way she dealt with her family screams Fi and not Fe to me, she didn't try to emulate her sister to get some praise and her way to confront her parents was to work hard to prove them wrong while still being her rebellious self. If that ain't a passive aggressive Fi middle finger, nothing is.
Many ISFPs are quite the feisty tomboy, they are pretty damn grounded and earthy in their freedom seeking ways.

Those were my two cents, your wife sounds rad.