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My Type Has Been Called Into Question

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]

I don't really see 5 in you at all. Do you relate to 136 tritype descriptions?

Re: 6w5, 1w2, and being high-strung -- I'm not sure if it's the thing you're focusing your obsessiveness on, externally, that matters, so much as the reason why you're being obsessive about it. That would be where your core type would come in. Initially you seemed very 1w2 to me, and I still relate to a lot of the 1-ish things you talk about. But when we were on vent and you talked to me and [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] about anger, I didn't relate at all to how you approached it. It seemed completely foreign to me, and I don't think that was because of your MBTI type (though it could have been).

Also I'm pretty damn sure about Fe-dom. Could see ESFJ as a second choice, but ENFJ makes the most sense to me.
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
ENFJ 1w2 sp/so works. At least definitely better than sp/sx. And I think 6w5 as a head type sounds reasonable.

Socionics-wise, EIE seems to make more sense because you're not as dead or piercing as an LSI, you seem much more emotive and dramatic. Take that with a grain of salt. :D
 

Showbread

climb on
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,298
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I definitely see you as ENFJ 1w2. Fe/Te can be difficult to distinguish because both are fairly driven, but based on our conversations I think Fe is more fitting. The only other thing I could see you as is an INFJ. But, that's only because most extroverted stereotypes don't seem to apply to you.

I agree with [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] though about the 6w5 fix. I see that as fitting better than 5w6.
 

ReadingRainbows

Cat Wench
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
1,885
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] I believe your typing is correct. You have an adorable pushiness about you that points to ENFJ. On enneagram, I do not know enough to comment on that.
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
I'm not trying to bash you. Besides, that's against the forum rules anyway and if that was my intent this would be quickly shut down. That said, I am pulling a double-duty with this thread. First, you aren't the only person who has questioned my type over the past few months (mostly with enneagram) and it's worth discussing and I would like to consider it. The other is, from my perspective your type suggestions have been SO off the mark that it's actually bothersome to me that you suggest it, mainly because it just seems so factually incorrect and baseless. I also want to show you in clear terms what my type is. I haven't really enertained your desire you consider a different type, and in the past shut it down saying "this isn't even up for question", so now I am allowing it to be questioned. It's much easier, as EJCC to put it in one spot. I want you to participate and witness so you'll see as clear as possible what my type really is. And yes, I'll ultimately want you honor that and acknowledge the conclusion. I can't make you, but if it does come up, I can refrence it here and end it on the spot. This way it is cleared up.

As per socionics, I can't take a test at the moment as I will be leaving and be out for most of the day. That said, the two types I have considered for socionics are LSI and EIE. I identify with both of them, and I am fairly certain it is either one of them. When I take socionics tests it comes out usually as either LIE, EIE, or LSE. Truthfully though, I don't put much stock into socionics so as of the three main theories here I put the least amount of weight on it. Enneagram and MBTI is my main focus.






Yes, the idea that I am an Se dom is fairly silly. I'm sort of the opposite of free wheeling, and I don't have the competive drive that Se doms often have. I am only competitive when I have no other option, or I do it quietly so it's not overtly. I'm also way too caring/considerate of social dynamics and related manners.

As for 6w5, I have honestly never given it true consideration before as it hasn't been suggested until you guys had mentioned it a few weeks ago. I think there'd be agreement it's either 6w5 or 1w2. Ultimately I feel 1w2 is a better fit, because while yes I am a high strung person, what I get high strung over is rather specefic (things not going/being right/correct), and most of things are 1w2 related. I'm also not constantly anxious, at least I don't think? Sometimes it's kind of hard to tell how I feel because I am always feeling stuff and I get used to it and stop noticing it until someone points it out. What are the hallmarks that seem 6 like and do you have any recommended reading?

Also do you think 5w6 should get booted from my tritype? That seems to be the current idea (and as I mentioned in the OP it seems unlikely).

Do those 2 tests that I linked in my earlier posts please... they'll give more data to crunch... you can refer to public opinion as to how others perceive yourself but not anchor your identity entirely on public opinion...

It's like avoiding confronting yourself...and using others' feedback about self as the primary source to define who you are... This sounds like a Fe-dom...but which one?

That would mean your enneagram typing is wrong...

What do you feel inferior about? What causes you to lose your integrity temper, causes you fear anxiety?

Also you gotta check that public opinion against your awareness about yourself...
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I don't really see 5 in you at all. Do you relate to 136 tritype descriptions?

So I looked up both 136 and 163. It's tough, but I feel like 136 fits better. If just for the fact that I read that 163 is praise seeking when they are not receiving enough. Yes it bothers me if I am not acknowledged, however I am not going to actively seek it. That's, well, really shitty and I do not want to be seen that way. I think 3 wins out because how I want to be seen is very important and I am very careful in cultivating it. On forums I care a lot less than I do in person.


Re: 6w5, 1w2, and being high-strung -- I'm not sure if it's the thing you're focusing your obsessiveness on, externally, that matters, so much as the reason why you're being obsessive about it. That would be where your core type would come in. Initially you seemed very 1w2 to me, and I still relate to a lot of the 1-ish things you talk about. But when we were on vent and you talked to me and Elfboy about anger, I didn't relate at all to how you approached it. It seemed completely foreign to me, and I don't think that was because of your MBTI type (though it could have been).

Also I'm pretty damn sure about Fe-dom. Could see ESFJ as a second choice, but ENFJ makes the most sense to me.

I honestly don't remember the anger thing, other then explaining the one time 2 years ago where I had a release and just broke stuff around me. What was the part that had difference? By and large I don't experience anger much at all. I get flustered/annoyed easily, but true anger is an alien emotion to me most of the time. It's the one thing I never really related to with E1 is the whole anger suppression. Since I just don't feel anger much, I don't relate to it. When I do feel it though I almost always keep it in check, just like I try to hide all bad emotions from others, as it strikes me as unfair and rude to others.

I do identify with parts of 6 very strongly, but other parts I do not at all. Whenever I take enneagram tests 6 is usually not too high, because some I am totally on board with, others I am not. 6 often has this obsession with security. I sort of do, but not really. I am very careful with my things, and if I am unable to determine a good outcome for something I will be very cautionary to insure that nothing bad happens. For the most part though, the idea of security is just, innate. I don't need to think about it. In particular I don't need to stress or fret over people I can and can not trust. I usually know right off the bat if I can or not, and if it changes I quickly adapt to it and move on. It's sort of like, yes I identify with the positve sides of E6, but the negatives? Not so much. One exception is I am reactive. However, only certain things set me off and I am often able to choose to react or not. It's rare that I can not hold it back. I make the thought "is it worth reacting loudly? Will it get to where I want or need things to go?" and then go from there. Yes I am anxious and high strung. I'm a particular person and I have things that I like, dislike, want, don't want, etc. and I am not hesitant to share that. However anxiety is not something that really gets to me too bad.

Another issue with 6 is, while I strongly value group opinion to see how I should stand on something if I am unable to pin down something clearly, from my understanding 6's seem to have this level of co-dependency. I'm the opposite of that. I actually push away people who start to get close to me and VERY badly do not want to rely on others at all. In particular when stressed. I want everyone to go away, leave me alone, and I do not want to dump my problems on them.

With 1's, I identify with nearly all of it. I'll quote one thing in particular, because it brings up the point [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] made in regards to head-type fixation.

Although Ones have a strong sense of purpose, they also typically feel that they have to justify their actions to themselves, and often to others as well. This orientation causes Ones to spend a lot of time thinking about the consequences of their actions, as well as about how to keep from acting contrary to their convictions. Because of this, Ones often persuade themselves that they are “head” types, rationalists who proceed only on logic and objective truth. But, the real picture is somewhat different: Ones are actually activists who are searching for an acceptable rationale for what they feel they must do. They are people of instinct and passion who use convictions and judgments to control and direct themselves and their actions. In the effort to stay true to their principles, Ones resist being affected by their instinctual drives, consciously not giving in to them or expressing them too freely.

This is ME. I try and present myself, all the time, as thinking through and justifying all my actions and drives. Why I did something, and keeping in line of what I expect of myself and what others expect of me. However this is largely an intuitive process. I sort of do the opposite, I decide what I want or need to do, and then retroactively determine to cross check (I'll throw it out if it doesn't match). I don't want to be instinctual, because it paradoxically strikes me as inefficient and error-prone, so I try to block and question my intution until I can confirm it (this also links to secondary Ni assuming ENFJ is correct, which at this point seems pretty darn clear). I also really match the integration disintegration of 1's better than 6's. A major point is when I am stressed and disintigrating, I become less competitive (and I am not very to begin with, at least in a direct sense). When stressed I definitely start to become moody/mopey and just overall a icky person to deal with (to deal with this, I usually self-isolate).
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It's like avoiding confronting yourself...and using others' feedback about self as the primary source to define who you are... This sounds like a Fe-dom...but which one?

That would mean your enneagram typing is wrong...

Lol no offense, but if you told my ESFJ friend that her identity is based on what other people say it is she would punch you in the throat.

The system you thought up of yourself is flawed, and all you're doing is spreading misinformation.

My advice is to try to give feedback based on actual definitions, rather than your own interpretations.

Or else most people on here probably will stop taking you seriously after a while. :shrug:
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
I get flustered/annoyed easily, but true anger is an alien emotion to me most of the time. It's the one thing I never really related to with E1 is the whole anger suppression. Since I just don't feel anger much, I don't relate to it. When I do feel it though I almost always keep it in check, just like I try to hide all bad emotions from others, as it strikes me as unfair and rude to others.

You sound like an F tert or F inf here...

One exception is I am reactive. However, only certain things set me off and I am often able to choose to react or not. It's rare that I can not hold it back. I make the thought "is it worth reacting loudly? Will it get to where I want or need things to go?" and then go from there. Yes I am anxious and high strung. I'm a particular person and I have things that I like, dislike, want, don't want, etc. and I am not hesitant to share that. However anxiety is not something that really gets to me too bad.

This I don't expect in a F-dom... You get angry but holding yourself back?

Another issue with 6 is, while I strongly value group opinion to see how I should stand on something if I am unable to pin down something clearly, from my understanding 6's seem to have this level of co-dependency. I'm the opposite of that. I actually push away people who start to get close to me and VERY badly do not want to rely on others at all. In particular when stressed. I want everyone to go away, leave me alone, and I do not want to dump my problems on them.

This sounds like F-inferior...?

Also in regards to type one description, which cognitive function may be related to the instinctual drives mentioned there? Which function causes those instinctual drives?
 

á´…eparted

passages
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Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
Do those 2 tests that I linked in my earlier posts please... they'll give more data to crunch... you can refer to public opinion as to how others perceive yourself but not anchor your identity entirely on public opinion...

It's like avoiding confronting yourself...and using others' feedback about self as the primary source to define who you are... This sounds like a Fe-dom...but which one?

That would mean your enneagram typing is wrong...

What do you feel inferior about? What causes you to lose your integrity temper, causes you fear anxiety?

Also you gotta check that public opinion against your awareness about yourself...

Well, here's the thing. I DO see myself as ENFJ. I identify with it well, but you disagree with myself assessment, so the next thing to do is to check with the consensus of others. If there seems to be a mismatch pattern, then it would be worth reconsidering. Up to this point it seems to match up pretty darn well with how I see myself, and how others see me in regards to MBTI. Enneagram (as you can see) is getting some sorting. Tests are one thing, but they are notorious for being unreliable. They're good start points, but not the end all be all answer. You only linked one test, so I did that, this is what I got:



Keep in mind Socionics and MBTI are two different theories, and while they share parallels they are not the same system and will not always match up. Their definitions of functions are different, and their interplay is very different. Nevertheless, 3 years ago back on personality nation, I quite extensively sorted out my socionics type with several members there, and of them they were very versed with socionics. The conclusion: LSI, and clearly Beta. I have gotten LSI as a result several times. However I think the results are heavily skewed because I do not trust or accept the picture selection section of the test at all. As I said before in socionics, if I am not LSI, then I am EIE.

What do I feel inferior about? Being a shitty defective person. I am not what I see an "ideal" person should be, and I really don't like that. Out of anything else, this goes the deepest. I feel like there are aspects of myself that are not equip to live well in the modern world, and I feel rather powerless to fix them as I see it as being innate from birth. See a recent post for a good example of this. It makes me feel horrible about myself, and I really try and hide it from others so they don't see how shitty I actually am. A lot of the time I feel like I am wearing masks to appear as efficient and "perfect" as possible as this is the image I want myself to ideally be, and I want to be seen this way. I of course try to cater my behavior to match the image and truly be what I see that I should be, but it's difficult and truly impossible to master, but it doesn't stop me.

What causes me fear/anxiety? Doing something wrong that I did not anticipate. Making egregious mistakes, and overall failures. They crush me.

Yes I know I need to check public opinion about my awareness, that's exactly what I am doing.
 

á´…eparted

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Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
You sound like an F tert or F inf here...

This I don't expect in a F-dom... You get angry but holding yourself back?

This sounds like F-inferior...?

Also in regards to type one description, which cognitive function may be related to the instinctual drives mentioned there? Which function causes those instinctual drives?

Yeah, your interpretations here of my statements are wrong. In fact, it's actually fairly common for Fe doms to be quite vocal about how they think/feel on matters, and quite easily share their thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc. Some more than others, but a major point is sharing. I keep a lot of my emotions to myself. The raw unprocessed ones are not for sharing a lot of the time because it would be unwarranted and unfair to others. Basic simple things like "I don't like that person", or "I love this cake", and even "I am feeling stressed because of reasons x, y, and z.", and that latter one is done in a light hearted way most of the time.

And yes, I hold myself back a lot. I repress a CRAPTON about myself. You're just looking at the surface though. The issue is why do I do this. Because I don't want to be a burden on others, and I don't want to be seen as a bad person. I have standards on how I want and should behave and presented and I will make myself conform to that. This is more of an enneagram point than a function point.

You're trying too hard to get each theory to match with each other. Don't do that. It doesn't work that way and it mucks up the system to try and fuse it. Each theory needs to be left indpendent for it to work correctly. The only time it gets called into question of mixing, is if you see someone typing as like, and ENTJ 2w1 (super crazy rare). All combinations have a possibility though. Really they are supposed to be independent.


Lol no offense, but if you told my ESFJ friend that her identity is based on what other people say it is she would punch you in the throat.

The system you thought up of yourself is flawed, and all you're doing is spreading misinformation.

My advice is to try to give feedback based on actual definitions, rather than your own interpretations.

Or else most people on here probably will stop taking you seriously after a while. :shrug:


And this. How many times, by how many people have told you this? You are not the arbiter or typology, and you can't just create your own theories in your head. The misinformation you spread is actually the biggest part I take issue with.
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Well, here's the thing. I DO see myself as ENFJ. I identify with it well, but you disagree with myself assessment, so the next thing to do is to check with the consensus of others. If there seems to be a mismatch pattern, then it would be worth reconsidering. Up to this point it seems to match up pretty darn well with how I see myself, and how others see me in regards to MBTI. Enneagram (as you can see) is getting some sorting. Tests are one thing, but they are notorious for being unreliable. They're good start points, but not the end all be all answer. You only linked one test, so I did that, this is what I got:



Keep in mind Socionics and MBTI are two different theories, and while they share parallels they are not the same system and will not always match up. Their definitions of functions are different, and their interplay is very different. Nevertheless, 3 years ago back on personality nation, I quite extensively sorted out my socionics type with several members there, and of them they were very versed with socionics. The conclusion: LSI, and clearly Beta. I have gotten LSI as a result several times. However I think the results are heavily skewed because I do not trust or accept the picture selection section of the test at all. As I said before in socionics, if I am not LSI, then I am EIE.

What do I feel inferior about? Being a shitty defective person. I am not what I see an "ideal" person should be, and I really don't like that. Out of anything else, this goes the deepest. I feel like there are aspects of myself that are not equip to live well in the modern world, and I feel rather powerless to fix them as I see it as being innate from birth. See a recent post for a good example of this. It makes me feel horrible about myself, and I really try and hide it from others so they don't see how shitty I actually am. A lot of the time I feel like I am wearing masks to appear as efficient and "perfect" as possible as this is the image I want myself to ideally be, and I want to be seen this way. I of course try to cater my behavior to match the image and truly be what I see that I should be, but it's difficult and truly impossible to master, but it doesn't stop me.

What causes me fear/anxiety? Doing something wrong that I did not anticipate. Making egregious mistakes, and overall failures. They crush me.

Yes I know I need to check public opinion about my awareness, that's exactly what I am doing.

If you are very confident about your LSI - ISTj typing...that would mean you are an ISTJ in mbti... ie Si-Te-Fi-Ne... that would correspond to 963 or 964 tritype I guess...

May also explain your reactiveness... ISTJs act like ESTPs under stress or when angry...

Also explains your low F and desire to remain detached...also your enneagram 1 typing...

Check your earlier tritype thread...

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67470&p=2228150&viewfull=1#post2228150
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Fits much better than ENFJ... Hi there fellow superego dominant...[emoji3]
 

á´…eparted

passages
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Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
If you are very confident about your LSI - ISTj typing...that would mean you are an ISTJ in mbti... ie Si-Te-Fi-Ne... that would correspond to 963 or 964 tritype I guess...

No. It does not mean I am ISTJ because I tested as LSI (in fact, it would actually mean ISTP, since LSI is Ti-Se in socionics). This is completely wrong. As I said, MBTI, socionics, and enneagram are all three different theories. If you are one type, it does not automatically mean you have to be another type. There are patterns, but they are not rigid abslThat said the concept of ENFJ and LSI is pretty bizzare. I have very high confidence in ENFJ at this point, so more than likely LSI could be wrong, if not that, then EIE.

Type 9 is flat out laughable. Out of all the enneagram types, 9 is the one I identify with the least of all. I have close to none of the qualities you'd see in a 9.


May also explain your reactiveness... ISTJs act like ESTPs under stress or when angry...

Also explains your low F and desire to remain detached...also your enneagram 1 typing...

Check your earlier tritype thread...

No. That is incorrect. There is no basis for this, and you are operating under the assumption that I would be ISTJ anyway, which you haven't offered any credible support of. As far as being reactive, is because some things get under my skin, and the only way to deal with them is to react with it. As I said, I choose when to react. It's very rare for me to be unable to control it.

Also, I don't have "low F". Using such a term is kind of meaningless anyway.

You're also putting too much reliance on test results. That enneagram test is pretty shitty. Test results are meerly starting points.

Fits much better than ENFJ... Hi there fellow superego dominant...[emoji3]

No. It doesn't.
 

á´…eparted

passages
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Jan 25, 2014
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[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]

Check this description

http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LSI-ISTj/

And this please..

http://www.socionics.com/prof/istj.htm

The first one matches fairly well, I have read it many times before. Though, none of the socionic descriptions totally resonate with me. Some have chunks I relate to, and chunks I don't. As I said before, out of the three theories I put the least amount of stock into it.

As for the second link, part of it is BS. The idea of typing personality off written physical descriptions is bullshit, so I don't regard any of those. Also considering I am gay, the relationship matchups in socionics are hard to apply to myself. Ultimately it seems rather corraraly with external manistations which aren't too consistent. This is a big basis for socionics, and many don't agree with the foundation, and thus don't strongly regard it. This is why a number of members here don't really do much with it.
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
The first one matches fairly well, I have read it many times before. Though, none of the socionic descriptions totally resonate with me. Some have chunks I relate to, and chunks I don't. As I said before, out of the three theories I put the least amount of stock into it.

As for the second link, part of it is BS. The idea of typing personality off written physical descriptions is bullshit, so I don't regard any of those. Also considering I am gay, the relationship matchups in socionics are hard to apply to myself. Ultimately it seems rather corraraly with external manistations which aren't too consistent. This is a big basis for socionics, and many don't agree with the foundation, and thus don't strongly regard it. This is why a number of members here don't really do much with it.

ISTJ is Ne inferior... they may be irritated by theorizing speculating and uncertainty...
 

á´…eparted

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ISTJ is Ne inferior... they may be irritated by theorizing speculating and uncertainty...

Yeah, that is a true statement. However, just because I display one attribute that fits that particular thing, does not make me that type. I've said before out of all the functions I identify with Ne the least, but just because I identify with it the least, does not mean it is my inferior function. I don't relate, and I don't use it. I relate to Te, but it doesn't mean I use it.

Even so, I am bothered by this because it seems incorrect, not for the basis of it being speculative or uncertain.
 

infinite

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
565
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
~8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]

I won't disagree with the socionics test result, LSI seems to fit you pretty well, much more than EIE. And that enneagram 1-3-x thingie also does seem to. Based on the few posts I've read from you.

I don't know you IRL so maybe you're very different there, but here I just don't see you as a socionics :Fe: lead type. Leading :Fe: in socionics is about a lot more than just control over what emotions to share. It's about a certain skill and especially confidence in all :Fe: related aspects. Are you confident in affecting other people's emotions, moods etc and energizing them into action through arousing their passion? LSI would make people do something by a very different method than an EIE would.

As for MBTI I have no idea, MBTI Fe is obviously different from the socionics :Fe:. In MBTI I don't know either how Fe-doms exactly go about keeping control of the sharing of feelings other than it's adherence to some sort of social rules. But more than that, I can't really say what this is:

I make the thought "is it worth reacting loudly? Will it get to where I want or need things to go?"

What kind of things? Yes this could be just Fe or it could be a T function dominating F function. You know yourself best so it would be interesting if you tried to analyse this further if you haven't yet. I'm certainly not going to guess without information about what's behind the stuff I quoted from you above.

On the surface your reasoning is reminiscent of how a friend of mine controls his emotions. He's a strong T type. But, as I said, these are not necessarily the same statements, only on the surface, I don't know what's behind it in your case.


Yeah, your interpretations here of my statements are wrong. In fact, it's actually fairly common for Fe doms to be quite vocal about how they think/feel on matters, and quite easily share their thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc. Some more than others, but a major point is sharing. I keep a lot of my emotions to myself. The raw unprocessed ones are not for sharing a lot of the time because it would be unwarranted and unfair to others. Basic simple things like "I don't like that person", or "I love this cake", and even "I am feeling stressed because of reasons x, y, and z.", and that latter one is done in a light hearted way most of the time.

I'm a bit lost there, you first say it's common for Fe doms to share their emotions but you don't share them? This stuff about being unwarranted or being unfair, why do you think it's unfair?


And yes, I hold myself back a lot. I repress a CRAPTON about myself. You're just looking at the surface though. The issue is why do I do this. Because I don't want to be a burden on others, and I don't want to be seen as a bad person. I have standards on how I want and should behave and presented and I will make myself conform to that. This is more of an enneagram point than a function point.

If it's a function you described here then definitely Fe-related. E1 through Fe? I dunno :p


You're trying too hard to get each theory to match with each other. Don't do that. It doesn't work that way and it mucks up the system to try and fuse it. Each theory needs to be left indpendent for it to work correctly. The only time it gets called into question of mixing, is if you see someone typing as like, and ENTJ 2w1 (super crazy rare). All combinations have a possibility though. Really they are supposed to be independent.

They aren't entirely independent because they have the same subject, people. And obviously not independent if not all combinations are equally likely. But I do strongly agree about your conclusion, yes, the theories shouldn't be mixed up. They are indeed different theories and there is no fully consistent correlation between them exactly because they are different. Another better framework is required to make sense of the relations between the theories. If there's no such framework then yes best to treat them as entirely different.
 

skylights

i love
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Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
@Hard... You've started this on wrong foot... You are trying to turn this into let's bash yeghor fest... I didn't ask you to do this... I said I'd contribute if you wanted to open your type into question... This was your suggestion...

I think him mentioning you gives valuable information. Because I have judged your thoughts to be serious and well-intended I take your opinions more seriously than some others' and am therefore more inclined to consider your feedback on a subject. Maybe it makes you feel uneasy but to me it does not seem like an attack. If anything it is actually sort of flattering that your opinion was significant enough to cause him to raise the issue to forum discussion.

In MBTI I don't know either how Fe-doms exactly go about keeping control of the sharing of feelings other than it's adherence to some sort of social rules.

I think it's interesting that in Socionics there seems to be a much heavier relationship between Fe and emotion. In MBTI, it seems that Fe is actually often not particularly emotional, in terms of presenting internal emotion; rather Fe types would tend to use sharing emotion as a tool. Fi types are more inclined to be emotionally expressive because they have far less of a filter for what is situationally and interpersonally appropriate. With Fe types, there seems to be a significant amount of holding back of inner feelings, especially for NFJ, or at least a strong awareness of how the presentation of feeling is coming across and therefore greater restriction of how it is voiced.

I can easily see @Hard as ENFJ or ESFJ at least in MBTI. I think it's true that there is some T-ish coolness but that can come from Ti. I do tend to see you as more Ti than Te, Hard. My mom is actually a strong-Je ESFJ, sp-so, and is on the "cooler" side, too. Hard reminds me of @Haven in a lot of ways, from username to overall presentation. Maybe with a little Uranaeiv (spelling... ?) thrown in. I could also see 6 in terms of enneagram but the wing is problematic. I don't see much 5 and I certainly don't see 7. I think 1 ends up as a better fit.
 
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