Socionics BETA or GAMMA?!?!

[infinite]

Dare

Dare what?

 

[entropie]

It's just a way to analyse people.

there is no way to analyze people, cause people aint static. the dynamics of people is inherently ungraspable to even an imaginry supercomputer. You cant simulate free will

 

[entropie]

Dare what?

Dare to show yourself to the outer world

 

[infinite]

there is no way to analyze people, cause people aint static. the dynamics of people is inherently ungraspable to even an imaginry supercomputer. You cant simulate free will

Who was trying to simulate free will when analysing people?

Dare to show yourself to the outer world

Huh? How's that gonna make me have more self-consciousness?

 

[entropie]

If you dare to show yourself, the world will laugh at you. If you dare again, they will laugh again. And if you dare again they will accept it, but test you if its really you. And they will test you all over and over again, if you are a little bit mysterious that is. If you are not, all's good.

But if you hang out on an online forum analyzing people or debatting analyzing people, you live here. It's a world for sure a nice world but not the real world. It's your choice.

Any further guidance will cost you from now on, so formulate your questions in a way that I could find them intresting, otherwise I will not answer.

 

[infinite]

If you dare to show yourself, the world will laugh at you. If you dare again, they will laugh again. And if you dare again they will accept it, but test you if its really you. And they will test you all over and over again, if you are a little bit mysterious that is. If you are not, all's good.

I don't really know what you mean by "showing myself" then. Explain?

But if you hang out on an online forum analyzing people or debatting analyzing people, you live here. It's a world for sure a nice world but not the real world. It's your choice.

Any further guidance will cost you from now on, so formulate your questions in a way that I could find them intresting, otherwise I will not answer.

Darling I can do the forum thingie only temporarily. Then I do feel the need to get away, get away from the PC entirely, go out and do whatever.

I haven't been looking for guidance, I was simply asking what you meant by the stuff you've been saying.

 

[entropie]

I never asked a thing actually.

 

[entropie]

There's still one good thing this world will always have. Even if you have lost your faith in everything, it still holds a sense of wonder. Even for the most unimpressible thinker.

We'll talk one day, when I am better. And no I am never talking between the lines, not my style. Its only other people who think that way.

 

[infinite]

I never asked a thing actually.

Nope, it was me asking about what you meant about stuff, not you.

There's still one good thing this world will always have. Even if you have lost your faith in everything, it still holds a sense of wonder. Even for the most unimpressible thinker.

We'll talk one day, when I am better. And no I am never talking between the lines, not my style. Its only other people who think that way.

I didn't say you were talking between the lines.

Thanks I'll check out the video

 

[011235813]

What was SEE-ish in it, can you give me some specifics? And specifically F type over T type?

It was a pretty superficial judgement, to be honest. You said you identified with gamma values and the only Se base type in the quadra is SEE, so I went with that.

It's also not uncommon to see socionics descriptions of gamma Fi as overstated, with all the dictatorial moral policing stuff. I think it's largely due to the fact that the people who developed the theory were alphas and reacted poorly to the gamma approach to morality. For example, I don't go around sternly policing people's ethical behavior constantly but I know unethical behavior when I see it and I also do think that jerks will always be jerks. It's not exactly that I'm writing them off for all eternity or that I'll go around carrying a grudge against them for the next twenty years or whatever: it's just that my mind only reluctantly jumps to the possibility that they could change for the better and even if it does consider the possibility, it won't really accept it as valid until it actually happens.

On further interaction with you, though, I do think you're SLE > SEE. Your posts push for definitional precision and you seem to want theories to match up neatly and exactly with reality. I think SEEs might take a more "good enough is quite enough" approach to socionics.

 

[infinite]

It was a pretty superficial judgement, to be honest. You said you identified with gamma values and the only Se base type in the quadra is SEE, so I went with that.

It's also not uncommon to see socionics descriptions of gamma Fi as overstated, with all the dictatorial moral policing stuff. I think it's largely due to the fact that the people who developed the theory were alphas and reacted poorly to the gamma approach to morality. For example, I don't go around sternly policing people's ethical behavior constantly but I know unethical behavior when I see it and I also do think that jerks will always be jerks. It's not exactly that I'm writing them off for all eternity or that I'll go around carrying a grudge against them for the next twenty years or whatever: it's just that my mind only reluctantly jumps to the possibility that they could change for the better and even if it does consider the possibility, it won't really accept it as valid until it actually happens.

On further interaction with you, though, I do think you're SLE > SEE. Your posts push for definitional precision and you seem to want theories to match up neatly and exactly with reality. I think SEEs might take a more "good enough is quite enough" approach to socionics.

Yeah, lol, I'm almost exactly like that with this stuff, I understand however that theories won't ever match up with reality truly, that they are just models that need to be developed further etc. Blahblah.

So what I relate to in that statement of yours is mainly my strong interest in precision etc. Compared to SEEs, I don't see some stuff as "good enough".

Why SLE though over LSI?

 

[infinite]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/45894-SLE-ESTp-a-look-from-the-inside

This says "Since our Ne is 2-dimensional, our probability estimates follow the lines of this anecdote: for a person to enter a room and see a dinosaur the chance is 1 in a many million – but for Zhukov it is 50/50: either he will see it or he won't. And he needs to be prepared for both of these contingencies."

Wth? Seriously, how do you prepare specifically for the unlikely possibility of there being a dinosaur?

 

[Amargith]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/45894-SLE-ESTp-a-look-from-the-inside

This says "Since our Ne is 2-dimensional, our probability estimates follow the lines of this anecdote: for a person to enter a room and see a dinosaur the chance is 1 in a many million – but for Zhukov it is 50/50: either he will see it or he won't. And he needs to be prepared for both of these contingencies."

Wth? Seriously, how do you prepare specifically for the unlikely possibility of there being a dinosaur?

By being aware of the option and therefore mentally having run through the scenario before which helps you react better in the event it happens.

It's kind of the way you read fiction books about places and situations you'll likely never be in - it still helps you prepare for those circumstances when they actually do befall you, as well teach you how to empathise with those that actually have been through the experience. Your imagination is a vital tool to prepare for unforeseen events

Call it stupid, but watching Jurassic park kept my brain busy for 6 months in figuring out evacuation situations for if a dino attacked the house and broke in and how to get all the animals and inhabitants out unharmed. Now, I grew up in Europe where the notion of being prey instead of predator was kind of...not part of my world. Jurassic park and other fiction gave me a chance to experience - like you would in a flight simulator - what it would be like to be prey and how you'd react. And it gave me a new appreciation for people who live in huts on the border of tiger territory - who deal with going into the jungle and facing that kind of predator on a daily basis. Im not saying I'll survive if I were in their stead, but i'm better prepared than I was as a kid who had no notion of what it was like to have something want to eat you.

/Ne-dom.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Well I suppose I should show up a week late, and a buck short. That was certainly interesting being led down the Golden Path. You certainly now your socionics, you remind me of a user called valaki similar posting style; I would guess that you are also from Eastern Europe? You scream SLE to me, given what I have seen from your posting style in this subforum.

But most of the time I apparently don't look like I care. Here's an example, a friend of mine got seriously offended - and I found out from someone else only much later by accident - that one day we were talking about such special things, plans for the future to do things together then next day I looked like I didn't care anymore. Honestly I have no idea why she got that impression. I didn't mention the "special stuff" later, sure, but she also didn't!! So why blame me? Same friend also called me "too dramatic" later when after her distancing from me I tried to get close again.

This is fairly standard Fi polr the inability to accurately judge psychological distances; either to hot or too cold XLEs suffer from having a yoyo interaction style, and have trouble maintaining well defined personal boundaries.

That latter quality is Fe-ish, I know. I however got the Gamma-ish individualism, because I don't relate to the Beta groupthink. Whatever "ideologies" I may like is my own stuff, not gonna follow others. I'm impervious to emotionally based reasoning, I dislike cults too. I dislike the idea of trying to join emotionality if I don't feel part of a group and I often don't, as I mentioned above.

Actually misanthropy is simply the flipside of groupthink, because your thinking is still aristocratic, you are judging these groups to see whether they are worthy to join. Whereas an Alpha or Gamma wouldn’t consider that at all they would view these groups as individuals, and would judge them accordingly. That is to say it is as much about how you see the world, as how you see yourself.

Anyway that’s my negative two cents, and welcome to the forum

 

[infinite]

By being aware of the option and therefore mentally having run through the scenario before which helps you react better in the event it happens.

Tbh I almost never do that... not in a conscious way for sure.

Call it stupid, but watching Jurassic park kept my brain busy for 6 months in figuring out evacuation situations for if a dino attacked the house and broke in and how to get all the animals and inhabitants out unharmed. Now, I grew up in Europe where the notion of being prey instead of predator was kind of...not part of my world. Jurassic park and other fiction gave me a chance to experience - like you would in a flight simulator - what it would be like to be prey and how you'd react. And it gave me a new appreciation for people who live in huts on the border of tiger territory - who deal with going into the jungle and facing that kind of predator on a daily basis. Im not saying I'll survive if I were in their stead, but i'm better prepared than I was as a kid who had no notion of what it was like to have something want to eat you.

/Ne-dom.

Heh ok I relate to that a little bit. I don't do it like you; I don't actually try to actively imagine the stuff too much, I just sort of "live the story" while reading and I do need to feel I'd be able to survive in certain hard situations I'm reading about. So while reading, some instinct comes up and I'll "feel" the situation or something in terms of how I would deal with and survive things. I can't explain better, sorry. It's all so nonverbal. I don't really associate this with any function anyway. But it's interesting to see that people are so different

Well I suppose I should show up a week late, and a buck short. That was certainly interesting being led down the Golden Path. You certainly now your socionics, you remind me of a user called valaki similar posting style; I would guess that you are also from Eastern Europe? You scream SLE to me, given what I have seen from your posting style in this subforum.

This is fairly standard Fi polr the inability to accurately judge psychological distances; either to hot or too cold XLEs suffer from having a yoyo interaction style, and have trouble maintaining well defined personal boundaries.

Actually misanthropy is simply the flipside of groupthink, because your thinking is still aristocratic, you are judging these groups to see whether they are worthy to join. Whereas an Alpha or Gamma wouldn’t consider that at all they would view these groups as individuals, and would judge them accordingly. That is to say it is as much about how you see the world, as how you see yourself.

Anyway that’s my negative two cents, and welcome to the forum

Thanks for the input. I didn't think of interpreting the "misanthropy" in this way but this is actually spot on.

 

[Stansmith]

Well I suppose I should show up a week late, and a buck short. That was certainly interesting being led down the Golden Path. You certainly now your socionics, you remind me of a user called valaki similar posting style; I would guess that you are also from Eastern Europe? You scream SLE to me, given what I have seen from your posting style in this subforum.




This is fairly standard Fi polr the inability to accurately judge psychological distances; either to hot or too cold XLEs suffer from having a yoyo interaction style, and have trouble maintaining well defined personal boundaries.



Actually misanthropy is simply the flipside of groupthink, because your thinking is still aristocratic, you are judging these groups to see whether they are worthy to join. Whereas an Alpha or Gamma wouldn’t consider that at all they would view these groups as individuals, and would judge them accordingly. That is to say it is as much about how you see the world, as how you see yourself.

Anyway that’s my negative two cents, and welcome to the forum

How would you describe the difference between Democratic and Aristocratic 'individualism' then?

 

[Dr Mobius]

How would you describe the difference between Democratic and Aristocratic 'individualism' then?

I would define it as the yearning to be part of something greater then oneself versus the yearning to be oneself. To elaborate imagine an aristocrat who adheres to the value of the chivalrous knight; from the outside he appears as an individual. But once you scratch you surface you see that his code means he belongs to something far greater.

 

[Stansmith]

I would define it as the yearning to be part of something greater then oneself versus the yearning to be oneself. To elaborate imagine an aristocrat who adheres to the value of the chivalrous knight; from the outside he appears as an individual. But once you scratch you surface you see that his code means he belongs to something far greater.

Ah, interesting. If anything, I'd say I'm interested in self-actualization on my own terms while developing valuable relationships along the way..

 

[infinite]

I would define it as the yearning to be part of something greater then oneself versus the yearning to be oneself. To elaborate imagine an aristocrat who adheres to the value of the chivalrous knight; from the outside he appears as an individual. But once you scratch you surface you see that his code means he belongs to something far greater.

What about someone who doesn't really adhere to any values or such codes of whatever role? (Nor to any idea of how "to be oneself".) That would be me btw.

As for being part of something greater, elaborate on that? Does that mean following someone else's lead, someone else's ideas, etc.? Because then I definitely don't relate.

 

[infinite]

[MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION]

I had a question for you a while ago Quoting:

Hmm thanks. What do you call Ji in your interactions with me? Some sort of rigidity in thinking, or what?