Socionics BETA or GAMMA?!?!

[Dr Mobius]

Tho I would say that it is basically about the group.

This is true Oakenshield; but had I said that, I would have been asked next time around to qualify it.

I know beta groups who pride themselves in being utterly ordinary people.

You mean more blue collar then the blue collars mentality? Certainly, thought I would add that that attitude implies that there is something special about being a blue collar.

Tho you need to differentiate here that not always all people of the group are beta. Most often its only the accepted leader who is beta. He tho then is a very passive leader as long as the group recognizes him as such.

This is a matter of speculation though, I would say that not everyone is or has to be a Beta in a group, but it’s a matter of whether birds of a feather flock together or not. In theory if Quadra values held true Beta groups should be mainly Beta with a few lost Alphas, but real life being what it is yours not an unreasonable stance.

 

[infinite]

[MENTION=20044]calb[/MENTION], [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION], [MENTION=12849]Retmeishka[/MENTION] all of you just disappeared?!

 

[chubber]

[MENTION=20044]calb[/MENTION], [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION], [MENTION=12849]Retmeishka[/MENTION] all of you just disappeared?!

Okay, I'm doing the test. Subscribed to thread.

 

[chubber]

Otoh I can really get upset over certain people's troubles caused by other people, I will really go out of my way to defend them. Some of those people are family and some are just random people who got the unfair treatment in certain situations.

Again with the Ti. Unfairness? Right there you go. I'm not saying that Fi users don't get offended by unfairness either, but it seems like that is a typical Ti "offense" when it comes to other people, is that something unfair has happened.

Verdict? Wow. Such SLE. Much Fi PoLR.

So... I'm just wondering why Ti and not Fe.

 

[infinite]

So... I'm just wondering why Ti and not Fe.

the way I try to defend them is more through Ti than Fe but the motivation... it's a good question where that comes from.

 

[chubber]

the way I try to defend them is more through Ti than Fe but the motivation... it's a good question where that comes from.

Yeah, that is, something I do myself, but I didn't know that was Ti. Because I don't necessarily give a hoot about the people, only the fairness. But only up to a point and then I don't care any more.

 

[infinite]

Yeah, that is, something I do myself, but I didn't know that was Ti. Because I don't necessarily give a hoot about the people, only the fairness. But only up to a point and then I don't care any more.

Hmm I dunno, can't it be done through Te/Fi as well? I see you type as INTJ.

When does that point come when you don't care anymore? I haven't yet seen that point for myself where I would stop caring

 

[BlackCat]

Apologies for the wait, by the time you had summoned me I had run off onto a much needed vacation!

Ahh could be. And yep it's rare hahahah

I had an example of having to ask for help, but I didn't want to. Being trained to do an administrative job has been kinda stressful for me, but I'm getting it. I tend to ask questions in a manner that won't make me seem helpless, like saying "look I remembered/did all of this, but can you fill me in on these details?" And I'm sure to make sure I know what questions I need to ask.

And when you opened up about the plans, did it help much?

Yes. I always welcome opinions, as I think that in order to be the best person I can I need to have a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. It goes hand in hand with the general issue of incompetency that ESXps constantly are battling, unconsciously not wanting to seem that way. I feel that it would seem almost sinful to be ignorant, which is why I consider others in that way.

I'm not trying to say that I can't sit on my ass discussing something deep but when it comes to my actual life, I'm not a daydreamer, I'd much rather act than imagine what I'll be doing.

Agreed. I'm the "when do we start?" kind of guy.

Yes I thought you mentioned it for that reason. I still need to understand better what the Fe DS looks like for LSIs as compared to Fe HA for SLE .

I feel like for SLEs it's more of a fluid process, not something that they take issue with of not performing up to par, but Fe also seems to be apart of the Se ego competency issue. They do honestly care for others' opinions, and they try to provide for their loved ones in being a well rounded person who is knowledgeable about most walks of life. But they may miss the personal side of things, and tend to feel a bit helpless when they do. My uncle is an LSI and he tries to show that he cares by providing for me as much as possible if I need it. Openly gives me tools and stuff if I need something around the house, etc. I think this is sort of an overcompensation for the lack of Fe awareness, since they unconsciously WANT harmony, but it seems hard to attain unless by some kind of physical means.

 

[infinite]

Apologies for the wait, by the time you had summoned me I had run off onto a much needed vacation!

Haha no worries, hope you enjoyed it

I had an example of having to ask for help, but I didn't want to. Being trained to do an administrative job has been kinda stressful for me, but I'm getting it. I tend to ask questions in a manner that won't make me seem helpless, like saying "look I remembered/did all of this, but can you fill me in on these details?" And I'm sure to make sure I know what questions I need to ask.

Ah I see. When I ask about something that I don't know/understand yet, it's often just because I find it faster to get the information that way than e.g. finding a PC and googling it or looking it up wherever else. Otherwise I'll look it up myself. Anyway I don't feel helpless when I ask and I don't really worry about wording the question like you do . Hmm maybe that's the Te HA for you? Or not related to socionics.

When I said I don't really admit I need help it's more like this, I don't go and say "god I'm lost what to do now?".

If I just need some concrete data to a specific question, I'll get it in whatever way, simple as that.

Yes. I always welcome opinions, as I think that in order to be the best person I can I need to have a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. It goes hand in hand with the general issue of incompetency that ESXps constantly are battling, unconsciously not wanting to seem that way. I feel that it would seem almost sinful to be ignorant, which is why I consider others in that way.

What do you mean by the bolded? Can you elaborate?

I feel like for SLEs it's more of a fluid process, not something that they take issue with of not performing up to par, but Fe also seems to be apart of the Se ego competency issue. They do honestly care for others' opinions, and they try to provide for their loved ones in being a well rounded person who is knowledgeable about most walks of life. But they may miss the personal side of things, and tend to feel a bit helpless when they do. My uncle is an LSI and he tries to show that he cares by providing for me as much as possible if I need it. Openly gives me tools and stuff if I need something around the house, etc. I think this is sort of an overcompensation for the lack of Fe awareness, since they unconsciously WANT harmony, but it seems hard to attain unless by some kind of physical means.

Hmm It doesn't feel like a "fluid process" to me, not enough fluid. Otoh, I know someone who's exactly like your LSI uncle and I'm not *that* extremely unaware of Fe. I don't know if gender matters here, though. This someone's a guy like your uncle.