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Is there anything beyond infinity? You tell me! ;)

infinite

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It's a matter of pre-conceptually liking the broad horizon picture more.

I haven't verified if this part of that questionnaire actually works to determine anything about type.

I was in a hurry on a work-day and didn't put sufficient thought into my original response. So I decided not to do anything on the forum until I get a day where I have more time.

I agree with Alea as to your type.

Ah I see.


You wrote, "They knew the way 7s think that I haven't seen anywhere else. They knew 7s think with snap architecture," but then you provided the link to the type 8 "Paladin" page. So I provided the link to type 7.

No lol that was badger055 writing that about 7's. I just quoted him.

And yes I did provide the link to 8 saying that it's fucking great. (Making so much more sense for me than the 7's description on the same site)


I've seen a lot of function test results here but very little data is available from ISTPs. The neat thing about function tests is that they provide more information about you than the MBTI. Because of Te being so close to Ti, You are probably an ambivert with a slight lean toward introversion. This doesn't say anything about being chatty or not, and in fact some of the most extroverted people I've known were not chatty, just workaholics and self-starters.

Hmm okay.

The being chatty thing is interesting, I can be chatty online. I'm not really like that offline/IRL. As I said, it's like my attention is directed differently IRL than when I'm at the computer.

Whatever that says about my cognitive preferences, heh.


I have an inventory that quite a few here have taken. It can help you get a better handle on what the "Ti > Te" is all about.

Does your inventory measure functions directly?
 

Mal12345

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Ah I see.


No lol that was badger055 writing that about 7's. I just quoted him.

And yes I did provide the link to 8 saying that it's fucking great. (Making so much more sense for me than the 7's description on the same site)

Hmm okay.

Here is one result that closely matches yours.
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...264&p=1427077&highlight=cognitive#post1427184

The being chatty thing is interesting, I can be chatty online. I'm not really like that offline/IRL. As I said, it's like my attention is directed differently IRL than when I'm at the computer.

Introverts speak what's in their minds more online. Reality for some reason tends to put a damper on their enthusiasm for speech.

Does your inventory measure functions directly?

It measures functions indirectly. What it measures directly is your entire hierarchy preference of 16 types, from top to bottom. For example, if Fi is your least-preferred function, then mostly likely (in that you are also a Sensor) INFP will be your bottom score, or very close to it.
 

infinite

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Thanks. I actually posted my results in there now. For some reason that test always puts ESTP over ISTP for me even though Fe is definitely lower than Ni in the results.


Introverts speak what's in their minds more online. Reality for some reason tends to put a damper on their enthusiasm for speech.

Yea but any idea why that is?


It measures functions indirectly. What it measures directly is your entire hierarchy preference of 16 types, from top to bottom. For example, if Fi is your least-preferred function, then mostly likely (in that you are also a Sensor) INFP will be your bottom score, or very close to it.

Ah okay...
 

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infinite

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Question authority.

Haha I don't give a shit about authority if I don't agree


For you? No idea. For me however, it has something to do with Avoidant Personality Disorder.

It's not that for me. I'll figure it out one day I'm sure.


So do you want the thing or not? I can pm it to you.

Sure PM it, thanks
 

infinite

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Results from Mal's test:

ESTP 49
ISTP 45
ENTP 31
ISTJ 31
ESTJ 30
ENTJ 29
INTJ 29
INTP 29
INFJ 28
ESFP 26
ISFJ 21
ENFP 19
ESFJ 19
INFP 19
ENFJ 10
ISFP 9
 

Mal12345

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Results from Mal's test:

ESTP 49
ISTP 45
ENTP 31
ISTJ 31
ESTJ 30
ENTJ 29
INTJ 29
INTP 29
INFJ 28
ESFP 26
ISFJ 21
ENFP 19
ESFJ 19
INFP 19
ENFJ 10
ISFP 9

[MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION]
 

infinite

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[MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION]

I think [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION] still sees me as Ti-dom. Based on what he's just said in another thread.

Hmm?
 

Mal12345

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I think [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION] still sees me as Ti-dom. Based on what he's just said in another thread.

Hmm?

I've seen both the Ti and Se sides of you on this forum.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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[MENTION=9075]infinity[/MENTION],

Oftentimes it is seen that the dominant and auxiliary functions are about on par with each other in terms of development and even sometimes with use. Therefore, the most efficient way to determine one's type between two mirroring types is the inferior function. Do you struggle with expressing your emotions or struggle with seeing the meaning behind things more? (oversimplified, but still qualifiable)
 

Mal12345

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[MENTION=9075]infinity[/MENTION],

Oftentimes it is seen that the dominant and auxiliary functions are about on par with each other in terms of development and even sometimes with use. Therefore, the most efficient way to determine one's type between two mirroring types is the inferior function. Do you struggle with expressing your emotions or struggle with seeing the meaning behind things more? (oversimplified, but still qualifiable)

You could improve this by creating a test for inferior function.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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You could improve this by creating a test for inferior function.

I could, and I think I might be able to use it with stress levels.

Extreme Stress or Anger

(IxTP) Fe - Begin expressing their negative feelings excessively and uncontrollaby
(ESxP) Ni - Become excessively paranoid and negativistic
etc.
 

Mal12345

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I could, and I think I might be able to use it with stress levels.

Extreme Stress or Anger

(IxTP) Fe - Begin expressing their negative feelings excessively and uncontrollaby
(ESxP) Ni - Become excessively paranoid and negativistic
etc.

Are you sure those aren't tertiary traits?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Well, under stress the tertiary would exact some degree of influence on the inferior function, but it would be predominantly in the negative expression of the inferior function.

Under stress, a type essentially becomes its negativistic inverse.
INTP: Ti - Ne - Si - Fe
ESFJ: Fe - Si - Ne - Ti

While the inferior function spearheads the negativism, it also works in a mechanism with the tertiary function to specify it, in a way (because all functions have a partner).

The Ti - Ne mechanism, for instance, is the natural state of the INTP involving the structuring and systematizing of the world through external possibilities.

However, when the Si - Fe mechanism becomes negatively expressed in the INTP, it flips and becomes the Fe - Si mechanism. The Fe serves as the way the INTP can express its condemnation of whatever event is unfolding and any negative emotions that have been built up, but specifically the teritary function of Si now supports that negative outburst with specific occurrences related to the past.

Theoretically, when the INTP is extremely angered they would begin to cite all past evidence of someone's wrongdoings and openly attack them with their negative tidings in a chaotic, uncontrollable manner due to the lack of expertise INTPs have in this department unlike the ESFJs.
 

Mal12345

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Well, under stress the tertiary would exact some degree of influence on the inferior function, but it would be predominantly in the negative expression of the inferior function.

Under stress, a type essentially becomes its negativistic inverse.
INTP: Ti - Ne - Si - Fe
ESFJ: Fe - Si - Ne - Ti

While the inferior function spearheads the negativism, it also works in a mechanism with the tertiary function to specify it, in a way (because all functions have a partner).

The Ti - Ne mechanism, for instance, is the natural state of the INTP involving the structuring and systematizing of the world through external possibilities.

However, when the Si - Fe mechanism becomes negatively expressed in the INTP, it flips and becomes the Fe - Si mechanism. The Fe serves as the way the INTP can express its condemnation of whatever event is unfolding and any negative emotions that have been built up, but specifically the teritary function of Si now supports that negative outburst with specific occurrences related to the past.

Theoretically, when the INTP is extremely angered they would begin to cite all past evidence of someone's wrongdoings and openly attack them with their negative tidings in a chaotic, uncontrollable manner due to the lack of expertise INTPs have in this department unlike the ESFJs.

I've never heard of a negative Fe-Si flip before. Tertiary loop, yes, when the auxiliary is weakened by circumstances. I'm not saying it's wrong, you could be onto something there.

However, I don't go for a function theory that leaves functions out of relationship. For example, when Fe-inferior becomes the Ti-dom's primary function during stressful periods, it places Ti in the service of rationalizing striking out, either at particular individuals or at society in general. When Si becomes involved, it aids Ti and Fe by serving up black-and-white symbols of good and evil. Fe is the function of societal mores. It offers models of societal ideals, such as what constitutes "masculine" and "feminine." These are considered negative standards which come to repel the Ti-dominant type, who is normally either ambivalent to them or considers societal ideals to be unobjective "sacred idols" used by authoritarian types (Te or Fe) as methods of domination and conformity. Ironically, the Ti-dom, under stress, becomes similarly domineering, although as you noted, in an erratic and chaotic sense.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I've never heard of a negative Fe-Si flip before. Tertiary loop, yes, when the auxiliary is weakened by circumstances. I'm not saying it's wrong, you could be onto something there.

However, I don't go for function theory that leaves functions out of relationship. For example, when Fe-inferior becomes the Ti-dom's primary function during stressful periods, it places Ti in the service of rationalizing striking out, either at particular individuals or at society in general. When Si becomes involved, it aids Ti and Fe by serving up black-and-white symbols of good and evil. Fe is the function of societal mores. It offers models of societal ideals, such as what constitutes "masculine" and "feminine." These are considered negative standards which come to repel the Ti-dominant type, who is normally either ambivalent to them or considers societal ideals to be unobjective "sacred idols" used by authoritarian types (Te or Fe) as methods of domination and conformity. Ironically, the Ti-dom, under stress, becomes similarly domineering, although as you noted, in an erratic and chaotic sense.

Well we also have to define the different kinds of stress that could trigger various different functions negatively.

For instance, with shadow theory, if an INTP's Ti constructs are attacked by others, they immediately scrounge for any evidence that could potentially back up their claim (Te, and also where Socionics gets its Te demonstrative concept from). Thus they may adopt a more annoyed, domineering-esque tone? I hate to cross systems here, but the INTj's PoLR is Se, meaning that they would be really bad at becoming assertive and demanding in a constructive or even destructive manner.

With emotional trauma or stress, Fe arises negatively attempting to cast down the stress with violent outbursts of uncontrollable, raw emotion, linked by the tertiary of Si to harbor and resurface negative feelings from the past and past dealings with certain stressors. I would think the Ti rationalization comes after the wave of emotion leaves and Fe cools off, allowing the dominant process of Ti to take back control and justify actions made by Fe.

Who knows, we need empirical evidence and we have none.
 

Mal12345

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Well we also have to define the different kinds of stress that could trigger various different functions negatively.

For instance, with shadow theory, if an INTP's Ti constructs are attacked by others, they immediately scrounge for any evidence that could potentially back up their claim (Te, and also where Socionics gets its Te demonstrative concept from). Thus they may adopt a more annoyed, domineering-esque tone? I hate to cross systems here, but the INTj's PoLR is Se, meaning that they would be really bad at becoming assertive and demanding in a constructive or even destructive manner.

With emotional trauma or stress, Fe arises negatively attempting to cast down the stress with violent outbursts of uncontrollable, raw emotion, linked by the tertiary of Si to harbor and resurface negative feelings from the past and past dealings with certain stressors. I would think the Ti rationalization comes after the wave of emotion leaves and Fe cools off, allowing the dominant process of Ti to take back control and justify actions made by Fe.

Who knows, we need empirical evidence and we have none.

I didn't try to exhaust all the theoretical possibilities with one short post. And empirical evidence would be great, even of the anecdotal variety. My point was to clarify my beliefs regarding functions and how they relate to one another. It's not as if Ti stops working during times of stress, it merely takes on a secondary role. It remains theoretical in nature, although not necessarily abstract - it still serves to assist whichever function has taken on the dominant role. It does this via rationalization - whether during or after the stress period is a moot point.
 

Mal12345

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Well we also have to define the different kinds of stress that could trigger various different functions negatively.

For instance, with shadow theory, if an INTP's Ti constructs are attacked by others, they immediately scrounge for any evidence that could potentially back up their claim (Te, and also where Socionics gets its Te demonstrative concept from). Thus they may adopt a more annoyed, domineering-esque tone? I hate to cross systems here, but the INTj's PoLR is Se, meaning that they would be really bad at becoming assertive and demanding in a constructive or even destructive manner.

With emotional trauma or stress, Fe arises negatively attempting to cast down the stress with violent outbursts of uncontrollable, raw emotion, linked by the tertiary of Si to harbor and resurface negative feelings from the past and past dealings with certain stressors. I would think the Ti rationalization comes after the wave of emotion leaves and Fe cools off, allowing the dominant process of Ti to take back control and justify actions made by Fe.

Who knows, we need empirical evidence and we have none.

Te "scrounges for evidence." This statement leads me to wonder how far afield socionics has gone from its Jungian roots.

Te is the function of objective control. It's goals are defined by the objective world, while at the same time its goals are oriented back to the objective world. The rules are defined by the objective realm, and then applied by the Te function back to the objective realm.

As Te is a shadow function for Ti, and even what I call its "shadow opposite," I have a hard time relating to its influence upon my thinking and behavior. While the Ti has an ambiguous or indifferent attitude toward Fe, it's attitude toward Te is a definite "get the fuck away."
 

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I've seen both the Ti and Se sides of you on this forum.

And you can't tell which is more dominant? Why am I not surprised. :p

(Just referring to how I can't either. Though been leaning ISTP.)


Oftentimes it is seen that the dominant and auxiliary functions are about on par with each other in terms of development and even sometimes with use. Therefore, the most efficient way to determine one's type between two mirroring types is the inferior function. Do you struggle with expressing your emotions or struggle with seeing the meaning behind things more? (oversimplified, but still qualifiable)

Meaning behind what kinds of things? Real life situations? I don't see any meaning for those in most cases. I can't exactly call that a struggle honestly because I don't even try. Real life is just real life, nothing more, nothing less. If I were to stop and think about meanings, I'd lose contact with the world. I intensely dislike that.

Don't confuse that with me being in my head analysing something. I'm ok with that, I just don't do it while there's action. I do it later. But, that's just analysis of stuff and it's not usually about attaching meaning beyond that. The latter feels a bit foreign to me, as if I just didn't have the means to connect actual experiences with such abstract meaning. I'm not saying I'm averse to the idea though. Only averse to it while I'm actually living through an experience :p

I'm however good at seeing the meaning of concepts, though that may just be Ti. Getting to certain kinds of such meanings does require extensive analysis and thinking about it, though, until I get the insight. So I think that's more Ni. I'm only really good at this stuff because I have the will and the patience to get there.

As for expressing emotions, if I ever feel something, which isn't often with the exception of anger, I absolutely have no problem with expressing it, in fact, I cannot *not* express it in most cases. It requires really strong self-control to prevent expression and I often don't manage to control it. As for anger itself, I have no qualms about expressing it and don't even try to hold back for sure.

I'm going to also say that (MBTI) Fe in general seems to cause me a lot of negative issues while Ni doesn't really, it just seemingly doesn't affect much in my life (beyond assisting Ti with understanding stuff), just sometimes I realize that I've just absolutely missed something that I shouldn't have... if I had been using at least a tiny little bit of Ni.

So duh, what do you say this means, ISTP or ESTP? :p

(The anger stuff, I chalk up to enneagram.)


I could, and I think I might be able to use it with stress levels.

Extreme Stress or Anger

(IxTP) Fe - Begin expressing their negative feelings excessively and uncontrollaby
(ESxP) Ni - Become excessively paranoid and negativistic
etc.

Eh, that's more often Fe for me then. Then Fe == inferior, unless [MENTION=13589]Mal12345[/MENTION] is right that these descriptions are actually more like typical tertiary functions.

As for the Ni one, I experience that less often, I'm not really a paranoid type but sometimes I do get really negativistic under more extreme stress. The Fe stuff is different in that it doesn't need that much extreme stress to "come out" so it happens more often. It passes more easily as well.

Make sense?


I didn't try to exhaust all the theoretical possibilities with one short post. And empirical evidence would be great, even of the anecdotal variety. My point was to clarify my beliefs regarding functions and how they relate to one another. It's not as if Ti stops working during times of stress, it merely takes on a secondary role. It remains theoretical in nature, although not necessarily abstract - it still serves to assist whichever function has taken on the dominant role. It does this via rationalization - whether during or after the stress period is a moot point.

...yeah empirical evidence. This about Ti taking a secondary role is interesting though. What does dominant Se look like in such a secondary role?
 

Mal12345

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And you can't tell which is more dominant? Why am I not surprised. :p

(Just referring to how I can't either. Though been leaning ISTP.)

That sounded bad at first.

There is an introversion/extroversion test out there, just Google it.
 
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