Does anyone think I'm an ISFJ?

[Mal12345]

Mal+, Your above description sounds very like me- except I try not to personify Nature- it just is the living part of ultimate reality.

Why do you have to "try not to"? Are you tempted to?

Also, Riso's 9w1 description sounds very much like an Si-dom.

 

[greenfairy]

Why do you have to "try not to"? Are you tempted to?

Also, Riso's 9w1 description sounds very much like an Si-dom.

I try not to because I recognize the tendency in other people, which I associate with being disconnected with reality. I don't really have to try- I just make a conscious effort to filter my experience through what I know to be true and not just use the frameworks of external religious and spiritual models with which I resonate. It does take a bit of effort to adapt them to my personal understanding of things, but it's something I enjoy.

Also, how to you reconcile me being Si dom and INFJ? Am I misunderstanding you somewhere as believing both of these things?

 

[Mal12345]

I try not to because I recognize the tendency in other people, which I associate with being disconnected with reality. I don't really have to try- I just make a conscious effort to filter my experience through what I know to be true and not just use the frameworks of external religious and spiritual models with which I resonate. It does take a bit of effort to adapt them to my personal understanding of things, but it's something I enjoy.

Also, how to you reconcile me being Si dom and INFJ? Am I misunderstanding you somewhere as believing both of these things?

I'm not saying you're an Si-dom, it's just a little bit more information for you to decide with.

 

[Mal12345]

I try not to because I recognize the tendency in other people, which I associate with being disconnected with reality. I don't really have to try- I just make a conscious effort to filter my experience through what I know to be true and not just use the frameworks of external religious and spiritual models with which I resonate. It does take a bit of effort to adapt them to my personal understanding of things, but it's something I enjoy.

What kinds of things do you know to be true?

 

[greenfairy]

What kinds of things do you know to be true?

Everything is energy, which forms itself into polarities; these polarities form atoms which form molecules, which organize themselves into patterns, to which we attach labels based on how we interact with them. Underneath everything is mathematical patterns and organization. We can perceive these patterns and the way reality operates, but form and matter is an illusion. Personification is an illusion because everything is one essence with no real separation, and underlying reality does not really have mentality- so it cannot have preferential attachment or attitudes or anything we associate with a being. However, it balances itself like an ecosystem; living systems do function in certain ways, and the biosphere of which we are a part functions in ways we can understand as personal because we are a microcosm of the macrocosm. But as such, our being is just part of an impersonal system fundamentally. It's all very beautiful. I love being a point in a fractal universe.
Edit: Everything is balance, a dynamic equilibrium. You can have no positive without negative, like you can't have one side of a graph without the other.

Go ahead and say this has INFJ written all over it.

 

[RaptorWizard]

This thread may have been at least slightly more convincing if you would have asked for ISFP opinions rather than ISFJ opinions (and neither of the 2 would work but still, SJ is just way too dang far off)!

It's kind of like how whenever I get called a sensor, it's always ISTP, and that would be by far the closest S type to me, so it makes sense actually, especially if the TiNi loop thing is true.

Similarly, many see you as an INFP, so if you would have asked a bunch of people if you're an ISFP in an FiNi loop or something stupid like that, you could have rallied more people under your alternative typing banners.

I still see you as an INFx.

 

[Jaguar]

See this is an example of me being oblivious to Fe things: I don't know how this person is popularly regarded. If this is the popular opinion, I would have just ignored her and not bothered starting this thread. I really don't know; I thought it was possible it was a legitimate opinion from a respected forum member, and consequently people would think it was worth debating.

After all this time, you still seem to care more about what others think than what you think. You even went so far as to post "can we all agree?" regarding your type in one of your older threads. Where is this unquenchable thirst for approval and agreement coming from? Don't you think the only decision that really matters is your own?

 

[Mal12345]

Everything is energy, which forms itself into polarities; these polarities form atoms which form molecules, which organize themselves into patterns, to which we attach labels based on how we interact with them. Underneath everything is mathematical patterns and organization. We can perceive these patterns and the way reality operates, but form and matter is an illusion. Personification is an illusion because everything is one essence with no real separation, and underlying reality does not really have mentality- so it cannot have preferential attachment or attitudes or anything we associate with a being. However, it balances itself like an ecosystem; living systems do function in certain ways, and the biosphere of which we are a part functions in ways we can understand as personal because we are a microcosm of the macrocosm. But as such, our being is just part of an impersonal system fundamentally. It's all very beautiful. I love being a point in a fractal universe.
Edit: Everything is balance, a dynamic equilibrium. You can have no positive without negative, like you can't have one side of a graph without the other.

Go ahead and say this has INFJ written all over it.

That has INFJ written all over it.

 

[Lady_X]

After all this time, you still seem to care more about what others think than what you think. You even went so far as to post "can we all agree?" regarding your type in one of your older threads. Where is this unquenchable thirst for approval and agreement coming from? Don't you think the only decision that really matters is your own?

that's important and not at fi ish

 

[Mal12345]

that's important and not at fi ish

Right, it's Fe.

 

[greenfairy]

After all this time, you still seem to care more about what others think than what you think. You even went so far as to post "can we all agree?" regarding your type in one of your older threads. Where is this unquenchable thirst for approval and agreement coming from? Don't you think the only decision that really matters is your own?

I don't know where it comes from. It's just part of me. Lack of individuation I guess.

Well, a lot of times when people express opinions on one type or another they have this attitude like it's obvious I am that type and I'm thick skulled for not knowing it. But people do this for different types (usually INFP and INFJ). So if I am to take their criticism or suggestions or whatever, I would have to believe it's obvious I'm multiple types at the same time. I think if I were to choose either type most people would be satisfied, but they also fail to realize that there are numerous people who still believe I'm XNTP. And if I don't believe I'm Fi, then I'm misrepresenting myself by just going with my own impression of things, as that is construed as Fi. And I don't really want to do it anyway, just because my perception of myself is biased.

 

[Mal12345]

I don't know where it comes from. It's just part of me. Lack of individuation I guess.

Then you should develop some sense of self outside of other people's opinions of you. Although I'll admit there have been some great threads based around this topic.

 

[Lady_X]

Then you should develop some sense of self outside of other people's opinions of you. Although I'll admit there have been some great threads based around this topic.

that's it right there...all of your confusion seems to be stemming from you just sorting through everyone elses opinions to figure out what to believe and i'll tell you that as a fi type i have not ever had that experience...like not once...not when it comes to me.

 

[greenfairy]

Then you should develop some sense of self outside of other people's opinions of you. Although I'll admit there have been some great threads based around this topic.

Which topic? Great is highly debatable.

I don't know. I've been trying for like a decade, but it hasn't worked all that well. First I had to develop a sense of self apart from the imaginary characters I base on aspects of myself. I did that within the last like 5 years. But that sense of self is pretty much entirely based on external observations and archetypes, attached to what I feel personal attachment to and preference for. I fit the personal into the collective.

And the more I read about enlightenment, the more I get the message that the self and the ego is just an illusion and enlightenment comes when you release your sense of separateness. I don't think I entirely believe this, so I will probably individuate at some point.

This is also a type 9 issue btw.

that's it right there...all of your confusion seems to be stemming from you just sorting through everyone elses opinions to figure out what to believe and i'll tell you that as a fi type i have not ever had that experience...like not once...not when it comes to me.

You're lucky. How do you know who you are then? Are you just what you like and dislike, and what you do?

 

[Lady_X]

Which topic? Great is highly debatable.

I don't know. I've been trying for like a decade, but it hasn't worked all that well. First I had to develop a sense of self apart from the imaginary characters I base on aspects of myself. I did that within the last like 5 years. But that sense of self is pretty much entirely based on external observations and archetypes, attached to what I feel personal attachment to and preference for. I fit the personal into the collective.

And the more I read about enlightenment, the more I get the message that the self and the ego is just an illusion and enlightenment comes when you release your sense of separateness. I don't think I entirely believe this, so I will probably individuate at some point.

This is also a type 9 issue btw.


You're lucky. How do you know who you are then? Are you just what you like and dislike, and what you do?

because i know every intricate detail of what i value and why.

 

[greenfairy]

because i know every intricate detail of what i value and why.

Do values define individuals then? How do you know it's you who is valuing it and not feeling a connection to a collective value? Like I know I value beauty because it gives me pleasure. But I don't distinguish that as a value from simple enjoyment except 1) I know it enhances my well being, and 2) it enhances people's well being in general and most people enjoy it.

 

[Lady_X]

the other people part just doesn't get factored in at all.

edit: also yes i think ones values define them.

 

[greenfairy]

the other people part just doesn't get factored in at all.

edit: also yes i think ones values define them.

That feels very foreign to me. But it's good to know my assessment of Fi was on target in that regard.

So how would a Ti dom/aux define oneself, since they are not so concerned with values, and they use Fe? Maybe through Ti and the particular subset of Fe values to which they subscribe? Like they are their thoughts as well as likes and dislikes and habits?

Edit: I'm not asking this because it's what I think I am; I'm using the contrast to understand the concept.

 

[Lady_X]

That feels very foreign to me. But it's good to know my assessment of Fi was on target in that regard.

So how would a Ti dom/aux define oneself, since they are not so concerned with values, and they use Fe? Maybe through Ti and the particular subset of Fe values to which they subscribe? Like they are their thoughts as well as likes and dislikes and habits?

everyone values something though. they act according to what is important to them. they word things in a way that is important to them because they value how it is perceived. every single thing people do or say is about expressing a value or protecting it in some way...at least thats how i see it.

 

[greenfairy]

everyone values something though. they act according to what is important to them. they word things in a way that is important to them because they value how it is perceived. every single thing people do or say is about expressing a value or protecting it in some way...at least thats how i see it.

Cool idea.