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  1. #1
    Junior Member Urraco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    5w4 sp

    Unhappy This INxx is EXHAUSTED.

    I know this forum must be constantly inundated with requests for help, so thanks in advance for even taking a look at my post.

    After a couple years of study I'm still confused about my type. The only thing I'm certain about is that I'm introverted and intuitive. When I take tests that give these dichotomies, both of these traits are drastically high. I know these results should be taken with a grain of salt but I do agree with them.

    Whichever type I am, my T/F and P/J are ridiculously close. It's really situational. I tried to consider what I'm like at my most relaxed state, but it's very unclear. I took the official MBTI in college a couple years ago but I was going through some severe derealization and depression and had a hard time answering the questions, even though I didn't at the time know what they were asking. I got INTP but the T and P were negligible. Before I got my results back we had the dichotomies explained to us and I self-typed as INTJ, and again the T and J were just baaarely there.

    I realized a short time ago that my self-conception is probably really muddled by my past conditioning, having had a pretty tumultuous childhood (a tragically common thing) that has lead me to have a complex for people-pleasing and seeking approval, as well as dealing with depression and anxiety, which have thankfully gotten better recently.

    When I look at the profiles for the four INxx types I identify more or less with all four, but especially with INTP and INFJ. I know that people generally don't fit into any type perfectly, but when I do find holes in either one they are pretty definitive. As for INTPs, I am incredibly sensitive to criticism and generally want to connect with people and enjoy making those connections, although my anxiety makes it difficult. I also am not terribly picky about grammar or anything like that, I'm terrible at math, and I'm pretty quick to make decisions on my own; as soon as another person is included, however, I get preoccupied with making sure they're happy to the point that I can't clearly discern what I want. As for INFJs, I do want to help the world, but I feel like that's too big a mission for any one person, and would much rather focus on helping other people cultivate their potential and see past all the muck that makes them lack faith in themselves. I make most of my major life decisions based on my feelings, but logic is still very important to me and seems to dominate the more day-to-day stuff. I don't like when things don't make sense to me, and while I'm comfortable with paradoxes and ambiguity, I really don't like when something loudly conflicts with my understanding.

    I've looked heavily into cognitive functions and I identify strongly with Ne, Ni, and Ti, but in no particular order. I know that function tests are even more shaky than personality tests, but I have never gotten any result that did not have those functions as my top three, but the order changes a lot and doesn't really show any clear trends. If I try to actively engage the viewpoints of each function in my mind, they seem to come with equal amounts of ease.

    Anyway, I have three things from other forums that might help: My own self-assessment based on a list of traits for each dichotomy at a basic level, another self-assessment based on MBTI Step II, and my responses to a questionnaire.. Hopefully they might help. I just want to be done with the confusion! Agihghfdugh!

    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    __________________________________________________ ____________________

    Extravert Characteristics

    * Gregarious
    * Assertive
    * Talkative
    * Social/outgoing
    * Likes groups, parties, etc.
    * Energized by interaction
    * Expressive & enthusiastic
    * Volunteers personal information
    * Distractable
    * Has many friends
    * Easy to approach

    Introvert Characteristics

    * Energized by time alone
    * Private
    * Keeps to self
    * Quiet
    * Deliberate
    * Internally aware
    * Fewer friends
    * Prefer smaller groups
    * Independent
    * Not socially inclined
    * Enjoys solitude
    * Thinks before speaking

    E: 2/11
    I: 12/12

    Sensing Characteristics

    * Concrete
    * Realistic
    * Lives in the present
    * Aware of surroundings
    * Notices details
    * Practical
    * Goes by senses
    * Factual

    Intuitive Characteristics

    * Future-focused
    * Sees possibilities
    * Inventive
    * Imaginitive
    * Deep
    * Abstract
    * Idealistic
    * Complicated
    * Theoretical

    S: 1/8
    N: 9/9

    Thinking Characteristics

    * Logical
    * Objective
    * Decides with head
    * Wants truth
    * Rational
    * Impersonal
    * Critical

    * Thick-skinned
    * Firm with people
    * Driven by thought

    Feeling Characteristics

    * Decides with heart
    * Dislikes conflict

    * Passionate
    * Driven by emotion
    * Gentle
    * Easily hurt
    * Empathetic
    * Caring of others

    * Warm

    T: 7/10
    F: 7/9

    Judging Characteristics

    * Decisive
    * Controlled

    * Good at finishing
    * Organized
    * Structured
    * Scheduled
    * Quick at tasks
    * Responsible
    * Likes closure
    * Makes plans

    Perceiving Characteristics

    * Adaptable
    * Relaxed
    * Disorganized
    * Care-free
    * Spontaneous
    * Changes tracks midway
    * Keeps options open
    * Procrastinates
    * Dislikes routine
    * Flexible

    J: 8/10
    P: 8/10

    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    MBTI Step II
    __________________________________________________ ____________________


    Initiating / Receiving
    Expressive / Contained
    Gregarious / Intimate
    Active / Reflective
    Enthusiastic / Quiet

    Concrete / Abstract
    Realistic / Imaginative
    Practical / Conceptual
    Experiential / Theoretical
    Traditional / Original

    Logical / Empathic
    Reasonable / Compassionate
    Questioning / Accomodating
    Critical / Accepting
    Tough / Tender

    Systematic / Casual
    Planful / Open-Ended
    Early Starting / Pressure-Prompted
    Scheduled / Spontaneous
    Methodical / Emergent
    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    __________________________________________________ ____________________

    0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

    I'll work backwards because it makes more sense. I'm male, 23, and my current state of mind is hopeful, intrigued, something like that. My INFJ best friend is flying in from across the country tomorrow, so I'm excited, but I have to do a lot of cleaning at the last minute, so I'm bummed. I feel lazy about it but it has to be done today, it's pretty bad.

    Stress...I'm always stressed. I have a decent amount of health problems because of it. I have pretty bad social anxiety too, and bad parenting gave me a strong need for approval and not stepping on any toes. I lost my father when I was 5 and my responsibilities increased dramatically. He was very keen on me being educated from the beginning; toys I got were usually educational somehow and I don't remember learning to read. We moved a lot and oscillated between bankrupt to upper middle class, so I had to learn to adapt quickly. All of these factors cause a lot of the cloudiness about F/T and P/J - how much is innate and how much conditioned?

    1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.


    INxx is ready to give up-image.jpg
    My first impression is freedom, as well as the fact that it looks like the landscape around where I grew up. I like that the road waves up and down like an ocean, which in turn makes me think of how different ways of travel tend to have wavy conditions, even aircraft. It looks like it's windy in the picture, I love wind. The hills are smooth so they might've been much larger at one point. I like the warmth and earthiness, it makes the sky seem especially vibrant. It's kind of dangerous to stand in the road like that. I wonder who took the photo, how close they live to that spot, why they were there.

    2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

    My initial reaction would be to worry about missing the event, I probably spent a decent amount of money on it and I don't get to do that kind if thing often. I'd feel better to have multiple people with me because it's more likely someone will know what to do. For some reason I also feel like it means people are less likely to stress out. I might ask how I could help, but there wouldn't be much I could do. I'd wanna see it get fixed though, especially if it's by someone who is really good at it. Outwardly I wouldn't show much, other than feeling bad for whoever owns the car or neutrally observing.

    3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

    I would rather it be that I know some of the people there, and if I don't, I'd rather not be the only one
    of the group who doesn't. If someone else in the group doesn't know anyone, we'll relate over that. I'd probably go either way since I'm already out, if I were home already it'd be much less likely. I'd probably be alert from the concert or whatever and be able to carry that with me to the party and stay afloat. I really hope strangers don't try to talk to me unless it's because they sense we're similar, which is how it usually works for me.

    4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

    In my mind I would think, "Hmm, that's not what I believe. Why do they? Why do I? (For both of these I'd think about their other beliefs to get a feel for their overall perspective, maybe look into what I know about their history.)" Then I'd compare our two beliefs with that knowledge in hand, and by then I'd have a few arguments built up. This isn't to prove them wrong, unless they're being completely offensive and I want to skip pleasantries and cut that out. The arguments are for getting more info, to see how our ideas hold up. If I think they're right, I'll adopt that new belief. If I don't, I'll keep mine but remember this outlook and what I learned from it and our interaction. Maybe I'll compromise and get a nice new idea that fits both, if I believe it's better.

    5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

    I feel like these are all very different questions.

    Previous beliefs: I'd do the same as above, but I'd include situational factors. If its actively opposing one of my beliefs AND is offensive or dangerous to me or someone I care about, I'll lose most of my timidness and at least strongly protest.

    Experiences: Probably not gonna do much. I'm open to whatever I could learn from new experiences or discovering that I was wrong about something. I'd be more worried if it was a person. They generally seem predictable (myself included) but they make me uneasy when they blindside me with something very uncharacteristic (myself included).

    Habits: Hmmm. My gut reaction would be internal resistance. Do I have the time or energy to learn this new method/activity? Will I look incompetent? Will I like this? Why is this person/situation imposing this on me? If curiosity wins our though, I'll go along, if only for the novelty.

    6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

    My most important values are honesty (not necessarily truthfulness, but generally), integrity, moderation (is that a value?) and avoiding unnecessary violence. I've learned them all over time by experiencing, enacting, and violating them. That showed me what I like and don't like. I had to grow my conscience and in the beginning I had hardly any. On the other had, it learned its lessons VERY quickly and firmly. My values are like holy writ to me and I simply do not violate them if at all possible. I tend to hold people to a high standard and can be harsh in judging them mentally when they don't match my willpower. I have temptation too, just like anyone, but not doing wrong is just too easy for me. If you succumb to it, I feel, then you don't truly place more importance on the alternative. I don't usually mention that, but I do when it comes to infidelity. It disgusts me how common it is and doesn't help my misanthropic streak. I feel that by honoring what I think are good values I will somehow encourage others to do so, but it's more proof to me than to other people. "Be the good you want to see in the world" for me is a necessity for morale - if I can see myself do good, I know others can. I acknowledge our nature to err, but when I do I try to regret it and try to do better next time.

    7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

    I'm definitely more academically obsessed of most people I know. I dunno about much else. I'm more introverted than everyone I know well enough to remember their name. This is the hardest question so far, I really don't know. If I could change something though? I'd probably make myself less domestically-challenged, more open to sharing my feelings, less accommodating (I'd sooner bleed to death than risk bothering someone), more obviously caring. I know my demeanor is inaccurate. I want to connect with people, and if they knew how I felt they'd probably be far more willing to interact with me.

    8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

    I listen to them, but I scrutinize them to make sure it's not all in my head. Most of my major decisions have been based on gut feelings and they generally turn out well, even if they don't (as in it's bad but I needed it). I go through life feeling like there's a "flow" to it, a certain series of things I'm meant to do, and I don't fight it because things turn out best that way the majority of the time. I will ignore gut feelings if they're too dark though. Three days before my friend died he asked me to come over, and it was a normal day. We had pizza and watched movies. But something was wrong. I was looking at a book of his about horoscopes (we both though they were crap) and I asked for his birthday. I then remembered it was Hallowe'en before he answered. He seemed sad about it and I knew something was severely wrong but I ignored it. My mom called a few days later and I immediately knew why.

    I also for some reason always know when I'll never see someone again, even if nothing suggests that. It happened with that friend of mine, my uncle, my cat, my grandma, my great grandpa. Each time I had a feeling like everything was fake and that this moment was a Big Deal.

    I ignore gut feelings a lot and it thwarts me almost every time, and I feel like such a jackass afterwards. I ALWAYS listen when it's about people though. I can almost always "get" someone and whether their intentions are good or not in a short amount of time. If I can't, I'm especially intrigued; my best friends tend to be people I can't quite get. If I get bad vibes, not being able to read someone will make the alarm go off, and I'll from the get-go be very guarded about them, while still being cordial.

    9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

    Learning, theorizing, insight, trying new things. My favorite topics are linguistics and languages, comparative religion, evolutionary biology, mythology, astronomy. All of those will get me excited fast. I mostly read and write in my free time. When I'm walking between places or grocery shopping or whatever, I imagine stuff or theorize. I'm not usually thinking about what's around me, and this causes me to be super clumsy. Imagining new worlds or rules or people is a blast. I love nature, too. Being outside of town is one of the few times I'm deep in my senses. The smells, sights, and sounds refresh me and make me feel at peace. I can relax and be energized for days.

    Drudgery drains me. Any subject I don't like. Superficial conversation. Having to people-please for too long. Any activity I don't enjoy is especially draining, my reserves are ridiculously low. Like, stupid low. My energy is precious and fleeting.

    10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

    I don't repress anything mentally unless I think it's excessively negative or I'm indulging a bad idea. The mind is the closest thing to a truly free place that we have. On the outside, I suppress most things. I'm less affectionate than I'd like. I'm more likely to criticize than compliment if I know someone, otherwise I like to give (sincere!) compliments. I reserve compliments for people I care most about to give them more power. "I'm proud of you" means a billion times more if it's not every dang week. I try to get people talking about themselves because they usually like it, it helps us bond, and I feel selfish really easily. I don't like attention so I'll avoid it. If something interests me and I don't think it will bore them, I'll talk about it, because I probably know a lot about it and that makes me comfortable.

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    4w5 sp/sx
    IEI Ni


    You sound more like an INFJ than INTP. INFJ just sounds right over all.

    You mention you have an INFJ friend; do you relate to him/her at all?

    Also, extroverted feeling will be a major indicator between INFJ & INTP. It's inferior in an INTP, meaning they "use" it in a rather infantile & limited manner, may find it either distasteful or magnetic in others (extreme reactions often due to projection), and experience it as very emotional (not as rational valuation, as it will be in a feeling type).

    INFJs, on the other hand, will find feeling something which helps balance their mindset, giving their intuition some form in the external, perhaps, a welcome connection to the outer world. As an INFJ, your inferior would be extroverted sensing. This is worth looking at also.

    If you don't relate to Fi, then you're probably not INFP or INTJ who usually relate easily to it. You speak of values as something you sort of acknowledge & adopt ("honoring good values"), very much outside yourself, and this does imply a Fe mindset to me. Fi types tend to speak of value as something they create & refine & explore themselves.

    But most important is to simply settle on your dominant function. You may feel you relate to & "use" Ne & Ni & Ti, but which is your EGO?

    How does your personality appear as a WHOLE also? INTPs are known for being wacky & ingenious, but also dry and detached. INFJs are known for being politely warm with abstract insights & a focus on improvement. These are some quick generalizations, but the point is the types tend to look quite different & they tend to get attached to very different personas.

    Have you read Jung yet?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #3
    Junior Member Urraco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    5w4 sp


    @OrangeAppled, thanks so much for replying.

    I posted all this over at PCafe and they all said IxFJ, usually adding that my Ti is probably very high for a tertiary function, so it's interesting that you also said INFJ.

    As for my INFJ friend, yes, I relate to her very well. We're different in some very key ways, but it's more because of our enneagram types; she's an 8w9 and I'm a 5w4, which apparently is a very common type for male INFJs (who subsequently tend to test as INTP until early adulthood). As such, she's a lot more up front about her opinions and has a really quiet but powerful "charge" that I don't. I'm also a lot more actively voracious about learning and absorbing what I can about what everything is and what it all means, as well as being a lot more into soul-searching. On the whole, though, we get each other very well, and understand each other clearly when we communicate, which is often through metaphor. She even said I "speak her language."

    I don't feel like Fe is distasteful or out of control. However, I did grow up with a single ISFJ mother who was not at all meant to be a parent. I have a deep-seated mistrust of Fe because she would "wield" it in public by being very fake, passing us off as a happy family, only to be cruel and distant when we got home. Even now I find it distasteful just because her Fe has no finesse at all. Then again, my INFJ friend has an ESFJ mom who was similar to a lighter degree; thus, she was also a late bloomer with Fe and regards it with caution. I do not believe that Fe gets acted out by me in a negative way, though. I yearn to connect and I'm good at it, if I can pull of the Herculean task of pushing through my anxiety. I love hosting and taking care of people. I feel like I value Ti more right now, but as I gradually "lessen the reigns" on it I feel more at peace with myself.

    Se has always been my worst function, although Te is my least favorite. Se is just...harsh. Fe can turn me off when it's overblown and not tempered with some rationality, but Se is almost always a nuisance unless I approach it willingly. I often get deeply lost in thought, only to hear the clock ticking...and then the TV, and then the fridge, and then crickets, and then the fan, and so on, until it's like a freaking orchestra from hell has invaded the room. Thankfully, as soon as I dive back into my mind, it mostly goes away.

    I think you're right about Fi, too. I have a better grasp on it than I originally thought, but when I compare myself with my INFP friends, I can tell we don't always see eye-to-eye on the specifics. Sometimes they all can seem inconsiderate to me, but I know I can come off as very prudish or brown-nosing to them.

    Ego-wise...when I try to approach that, I feel alarms go off in my head and I can't think. On many levels of consciousness I am afraid for different reasons of accepting what I am, regardless of the actual type. I think instinctively I just barely fit with Ni, then Ti, then Ne. The thing is, Ni is such a hard thing to articulate that even Ni-doms can misunderstand it. Plus, I often have doubts of my "hunches," although when they are correct I feel a very deep "I told you so" feeling. Whenever I read about it, though, it's usually only mentioned that these feelings come with near-absolute certainty. On some level they do for me, but not often directly at the front of my consciousness.

    And as for INTP vs INFJ appearance, it's surprisingly a tough call a lot of the time. I have over a dozen threads bookmarked about this issue. Sometimes my INFJ friend seems like an INTP, particularly when in a bad mood or when deeply in Ni-Ti. I think I superficially resemble an INTP far more than an INFJ, but I think it could be stunted emotional growth, cultural mores (I'm male), being a 5w4, and having major social anxiety. I also feel like I'm "kooky" with my humor in an INTP way. However, INTP is also the very last type that I have yet to make a friend of. My only examples are online, and 2 Spanish teachers, both over 50 so pretty well-rounded.

    I have read some Jung, mostly just his descriptions of the functions. I'll have to read more; any little bit would help.

    Thanks again!

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