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Am I Sx/So or So/Sx?

skylights

i love
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so/sx
Second guessing myself...

Either I'm a very socially-strong Sx, or a very sexually-strong So.

Many people have said I don't register intensity enough to be Sx/So. It's a fair point. In comparison to some Sx-doms I know, I am not nearly up to their level. I am not particularly polarizing unless I am very angry... I relate so strongly to Sx but I don't seem to exude it. From my standpoint, at times I am baffled by the strength of force that some Sx-doms unleash without curbing it for others' sake.

My understanding of my instinct is to immerse. I want to become part of everything, to sink into deep connection with it all. My primary values are love and unity. I am happiest when I am amongst a small group of the people who matter most to me - my family and boyfriend, particularly in immersive environments (as in, a very consistent feeling-invoking atmosphere, such as nature, cityscape, earthy spa, luxurious resort, cozy home, elegant restaurant, etc). I have a very strong internal sense of hierarchy - who comes before who - and will have a very hard time attending to a "lower-order person" (eg a casual friend) when there is a "higher-order" person (eg family) around, unless I am doing it at the pleasure of the higher-order person. Sp-last manifests in my lack of desire or attention to drawing boundaries between myself and other things, and neglecting self-upkeep as a result - if I keep up with myself in Sp terms, it's generally for the sake of allowing my life to continue operating optimally, not for my personal pleasure.

I strongly empathize with "the Sx/So ideal is not to run away but to stand and fight, tearing down the walls and breaking all chains" (Bumblyjack, PerC). Rarely do I rip everything apart, for the sake of harmony, but I feel like my natural inclination is towards "purifying". Nothing is more satisfying than a discussion that removes all the barriers and lays everything out on the table, that exposes everyone's hearts and purest desires and allows us to build off of truth rather than illusion. I believe that at the core level, with all illusion removed, we all resonate with one another, so if we are all exposed we are all united, and if we are all truly united then we are all exposed. It's the ideal state of existence because it allows everyone the best chance at self-actualization.

My intensity/volatility comes out most in my close relationships... it's a combination of caring more about those close relationships and therefore reserving most of my energy for them plus understanding that there is a level of safety in close relationships that does not exist in outer spheres, due to the bond already formed - though of course sometimes I am pushed to my limit and give a less-close person a hellish litany of infuriation. I can give you a short history of my life plotted by "periods" of my romantic interests, and how that person colored each period. It's almost like a zeitgeist, an overall amalgamation of my environment and values and desires represented by a singular person. Addictive tendencies are strong in me. I also experience the dreaded push-pull... WANT WANT WANTing what I don't have, and then questioning it once I'm in it. I move through cycles of immersion/ecstasy and withdrawal/doubt. I have always felt things the strongest when in a liminal state - both ecstasy and heartwrenching despair. I miss the frequency of ecstatic feelings in liminality, but I also enjoy the grounded pride of stability, and still manage to squeeze some ecstasy in!

I'm not an exhibitionist, but I don't balk at kissing in public. I do strongly dislike saying "I love you" in public to my SO - it feels too private to exhibit, at least with us not having a formal social commitment. I share personal truths and lay my own issues bare, but I don't share family or relationship struggles because I feel that it is inappropriate to expose my loved ones like that. I don't reveal financial issues for the same reason - it feels inappropriate. I shy from political argumentation, as though I have strong feelings on the matter, I dislike personal confrontation and prefer a proper debate forum where it is less personal. I am strongly interested in sociopolitical reform but do not take as much action towards it as I ought to. I have these great visions of change but often am preoccupied with my own little sphere, and am shy approaching groups. I acknowledge authorities for their position's functionality and their willingness to serve the common good but respect their power entirely on the basis of whether they use it responsibly, and do not feel a compulsion to side with them (beyond maintaining my job/legal security) or to see them as anything beyond people in a position. I find cults of personality to be very bizarre... the only people I idealize are fictional characters.

I generally feel like Sx is in the driver's seat with So restrictions buffering from every side, but perhaps it's the other way around, with an So unity lead supported by immersive Sx connections. I don't relate well to some classically So elements like keeping abreast of cultural trends. I feel like my native "sphere" of comfortable interaction and attention is quite small, though I desire to be universally connected.

Beh, opinions and/or guidance would be appreciated. :heart:
 

highlander

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I think you are Sx. Not sure why. There is just something that that seems like it.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Going off of "vibe theory", I think you vibe more like me and [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] (so/sx) than like the sx/so folks on the forum. That being said, your OP seems pretty sx-first. Especially, for example, having "these great visions of change but often am preoccupied with (your) own little sphere"... Seems like so-second being subject to sx-first. Almost the entire OP seems like you care more about intense experience of unity with people/things, than you do about anything group/society-related.
 

skylights

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Going off of "vibe theory", I think you vibe more like me and [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] (so/sx) than like the sx/so folks on the forum. That being said, your OP seems pretty sx-first. Especially, for example, having "these great visions of change but often am preoccupied with (your) own little sphere"... Seems like so-second being subject to sx-first. Almost the entire OP seems like you care more about intense experience of unity with people/things, than you do about anything group/society-related.

Thank you for summing up my entire OP in a paragraph :D

Yes, you've hit on the issue exactly. I am generally preoccupied with Sx concerns but don't vibe Sx even to myself.

I do very much relate to your and fidelia's communication styles, always very genuine, heartfelt, and open, but contained/appropriate. It's like there's natural padding for the sake of keeping in mind that you are speaking to an audience. I feel that way when writing here. There's an automatic consciousness that I am speaking to a large, anonymous group of "everyone", and a need to conduct myself in a more restrained way because all eyes may be on me.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Thank you for summing up my entire OP in a paragraph :D
:blush: Sorry!
Yes, you've hit on the issue exactly. I am generally preoccupied with Sx concerns but don't vibe Sx even to myself.
Just a subdued sx/so, I guess. :)

These things happen. I still have to fend off people claiming I'm so/sp. :laugh: But the thing is, despite everything, my blind spot is still sp, regardless of whatever sp-recognition skills I may have by virtue of being SJ.
 

skylights

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It was a compliment. ;) I wish I had an ESTJ editor.

Just a subdued sx/so, I guess. :)

These things happen. I still have to fend off people claiming I'm so/sp. :laugh: But the thing is, despite everything, my blind spot is still sp, regardless of whatever sp-recognition skills I may have by virtue of being SJ.

True, good point. I see Sx over Sp in you though, too. You share so much of your core.

I did also find this "coolside" descriptor, which seems relatable - "coolside sx/so - strong sx, strong soc, weak sp. pulls from so/sp secondary, political activist streak, 'cooled' by soc with some intellectual reserve, channels sx into social causes."

Lord knows Sp is weak in me. D:
 

Kasper

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I would ask what your pre-occupation is, what causes you most imbalance, as that would typically be your core instinct, weather it be flipping between social and anti-social, or promiscuity and abstinence. Personally, when romance is in the mix, my Sx kicks in hard core and I can be very Sx obsessive, however even if it is over the top, it never feels like it is something I can't pull back on, and it comes and goes in spurts, meanwhile my gut drive to seek belonging is always causing me angst, when I look at the patterns of past behaviour, my Sx has always backed So needs outside of romance, I get passionate about a group environment, and never feel belonging (So 9).

As a 6, your key point will be security, in a So/Sx this tends to look to individuals more than the Social of other E-types, as per normal, charm and humour as well as a "lightness" will be present, meanwhile the Sx/So will have a dramatic flair, and is more likely to be counter-phobic.

I would suggest focus on your instincts outside of romantic relationships, seeing as you know you have Sx in the mix somewhere, romance can intensify that (imo). It may be projection, however if I wasn't so heavily impacted by core 9 So needs in day to day life, romance would have me sure I was a Sx dom.
 

EJCC

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It was a compliment. ;) I wish I had an ESTJ editor.
I'd love to be your ESTJ editor! :) Hit me up.
True, good point. I see Sx over Sp in you though, too. You share so much of your core.
This may sound goofy, but I'm glad you notice that I do that. I feel like I share a whole lot of myself, and am very open when the situation calls for it -- but it doesn't seem like people notice. Maybe it's because I seem calm in a Te-dom way when I'm doing it.
I did also find this "coolside" descriptor, which seems relatable - "coolside sx/so - strong sx, strong soc, weak sp. pulls from so/sp secondary, political activist streak, 'cooled' by soc with some intellectual reserve, channels sx into social causes."
Ooh, those descriptions are great. (I just googled your quote.)

The "lightside so/sx" fits me perfectly: "engaging, ingratiating even, and is the closest to what has become the stereotype for so/sx. unmistakably friendly, amusing, eager to attend to others in a personal, customized way. also hesitant or unwilling to upset the delicate chemistry or harmony of individual or group dynamics, since soc cohesion is at a premium."

Explains, in part, why I'm so conflict-sensitive for being an ESTJ. But then again I'm guessing so/sp and sp/so are likely much more common for ESTJs.
Lord knows Sp is weak in me. D:
:laugh: Same here. Good thing I'm surrounded by sp-users, or else I'd burn myself out every day!
 

Amargith

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Tbh, Ive wondered the same thing. You tend to be more...pragmatic and smooth in navigating the forum than I am, I find :laugh:

But that could just be the 6. Tbh, I do believe you to be sx-so. So-doms tend to be even more level than you are in social situations. They have a need to be part of the tribe, ime. Their greatest need seems to be to feel at home in the crowd of people they hang out with and they will protect that desire and back off easily when they feel that home threatened by their own - what they believe to be - inproper actions - something I have yet to see you do. And some of that overlaps with the 6s need for security and loyalty of those around them, but it has a different flavour to it. You don't seem to have the need to make the tribe your home per se, but you do seem to desire loyalty and knowing where you stand, as well as protect yourself and your 6 agenda which leads to you being private and courteous amongst others.

Here is a link to a post I wrote on being sx-so. Remove the 4 drama filter and see if you relate ;)
 

Evo

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I am happiest when I am amongst a small group of the people who matter most to me - my family and boyfriend, particularly in immersive environments (as in, a very consistent feeling-invoking atmosphere, such as nature, cityscape, earthy spa, luxurious resort, cozy home, elegant restaurant, etc). I have a very strong internal sense of hierarchy - who comes before who - and will have a very hard time attending to a "lower-order person" (eg a casual friend) when there is a "higher-order" person (eg family) around, unless I am doing it at the pleasure of the higher-order person.

I have only read up to this part, and I will read more when I can, but I have been told just cause I am comfortable in small groups doesn't necessarily mean I'm sx. Also IMO I know what sx feels like and the "higher-order" you're referring to, to me doesn't sound like sx. To me it sounds like so. To me sx feels like I want the deepest connection I can get with "you" <--- you being the person in front of me. My end goal is to get on this emotional/spiritual/whatever wave we both can ride on together and look into the depths of ur soul kinda stuff. With that being an end result I want .... there can be no order in heirarchy of who this connection happens with. This connection could happen with anyone at anytime, and usually doesn't take that much time to get there with an sx, IME.

Also IME Fi, being similar to Ti in that is "catagorizes" (instead of how Ti catagorizes subjective facts about objects or what not) Fi subjectively catagorizes people and the feeling aspect of things. And that also sounds very so. I have none of that...and I have Fi last and so last, so I am pretty bad at catagorizing people in that way.
 

Evo

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] I get so/sx ness from u, but that's just me. I was reading somewhere here the other day that to figure out what your dom instinct is, you have to think of which one is "broken" in a sense. So usually the second one is actually moderately mature. Which may be why you feel very strong sx but not strong enough to resemble other sx doms. So for me, I know I'm sp/sx now because I am doing the sp things (always being rediculously responsible, for me, my SO, my parents...like taking care of finances because the thing I lack the most is Security) So I take on responsibility so I know things get done and can feel secure...blah, blah, blah... I don't know how that looks for so though...I do know my one friend was beat up by other kids in school when he was young and that probably left a HUGE emptiness/feeling of socialness being broken in him...and that's how I can determine he's so dom (other than his more subdued demeanor.)
 

SD45T-2

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This may sound goofy, but I'm glad you notice that I do that. I feel like I share a whole lot of myself, and am very open when the situation calls for it -- but it doesn't seem like people notice. Maybe it's because I seem calm in a Te-dom way when I'm doing it.
That could be.

Explains, in part, why I'm so conflict-sensitive for being an ESTJ. But then again I'm guessing so/sp and sp/so are likely much more common for ESTJs.
Probably

I'm not sure, but I think SLO John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz) is an ESTJ 8w7 sp/sx. Then again, he's fictional.
 

Rasofy

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You seem to focus more on the individuals, and your level of empathy level seems more compatible with sx/so -though your vibe indeed looks like so/sx, like EJCC mentioned. But maybe that's how a phobic-6 sx/so is supposed to be?

I've noticed that most so/sx's have a lot of shoulds and shouldn'ts, and you couldn't be more different in this aspect.
 

PeaceBaby

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: you and I share some vibe. I used to type myself as so/sp but recently changed it to try on so/sx, realizing sp was not reality but aspirational. My pulling back into myself was more about sx than sp. For me, the sp stuff is so far down the food chain it seemed silly to imagine I was paying any decent amount of attention to it - it's more about the so/sp combo I wish I was, about being able to make more difference.

So, how do you feel when you compare yourself to my vibe? I mostly see your sx come out in defense of home & hearth, and this vibes to me as so first. And I agree with [MENTION=4324]Kasper[/MENTION], that love makes us all seem sx-driven at times, in the exclusivity of that bond. I am aware and work and struggle with so-dom connections on a near-daily basis, and am so conscious of it that there's no denying that it's a preoccupation. So, if you take the love relationship out of the mix, do you ever really forget or not notice all the social nuance around you?
 

Amargith

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: you and I share some vibe. I used to type myself as so/sp but recently changed it to try on so/sx, realizing sp was not reality but aspirational. My pulling back into myself was more about sx than sp. For me, the sp stuff is so far down the food chain it seemed silly to imagine I was paying any decent amount of attention to it - it's more about the so/sp combo I wish I was, about being able to make more difference.

So, how do you feel when you compare yourself to my vibe? I mostly see your sx come out in defense of home & hearth, and this vibes to me as so first. And I agree with [MENTION=4324]Kasper[/MENTION], that love makes us all seem sx-driven at times, in the exclusivity of that bond. I am aware and work and struggle with so-dom connections on a near-daily basis, and am so conscious of it that there's no denying that it's a preoccupation. So, if you take the love relationship out of the mix, do you ever really forget or not notice all the social nuance around you?

As a comparison and reference, I'll add the following: I personally also notice the social nuance, but it is something I have to consciously think of checking. I'll do it to keep myself out of trouble, to keep things going smoothly, to serve my preference for harmony, but I also often find myself getting frustrated at having to do this shit, especially when I'm low on energy. Sx otoh is my world. It's as natural to me as breathing. It does not exhaust me, it's something I'll do even when i'm dog-tired (noticing the energy of the person, that is - acting on it would be later when Ive got more juice myself, and yes, I do make that mental note to do so later).
 

Elfboy

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You seem to focus more on the individuals, and your level of empathy level seems more compatible with sx/so -though your vibe indeed looks like so/sx, like EJCC mentioned. But maybe that's how a phobic-6 sx/so is supposed to be?
this could also just be being an NFP.

I've noticed that most so/sx's have a lot of shoulds and shouldn'ts, and you couldn't be more different in this aspect.
that's more superego than Social instinct, though there is some overlap (and 6 is a superego type)
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
to be honest, I could see either. have you taken this test?
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/62941-elfboy-s-instinctual-variant-test.html
 

OrangeAppled

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I'd say so/sx. Your way of describing dynamics with people & what you focus on sounds more like bond-forming & bond-maintaining than moth-to-flame intensity. It sounds like you want something deep, but lasting, not a rush of excitement. It's the SO instinct that seeks a niche with people, including private, close individua ones, not necessarily public or group ones. You seem rather careful in leaving impressions - I don't see a repulsing side.
 

skylights

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First of all, thank you, everyone, for your input. I'm sorry I've taken a while to respond; it's a busy transition time in my life at the moment, and I've been mulling over this in my day-to-day life for a few days now.

-

@Kasper - In terms of sx, I have essentially always had one major obsessive focus, but in terms of romance, I've actually only recently really gotten into reciprocal relationships - almost all of my "relationships" from childhood to my 20s were one-sided liminal crushes. So it's hard for me to say "outside" of romance, because I've really mostly only had liminality, and that has been constant. I feel somewhat at a loss if there is not one main thing that I am after. I do know that within a relationship, I become much more socially-attuned. FWIW, I think I am much more "lightness", charm, and humor than dramatic flair.

-

@EJCC - Yeah, maybe it's your calmness. You seem stable and self-assured. But you are kind of "soft" for an ESTJ, and I think that gives a bit of it away. You're more malleable and dynamic than others I've met. I wish I could find more information on "darkside" so/sx, because I think that's where I'd end up, if I'm social-first.

-

@Amargith - :laugh: Well, thank you for the compliment. I'm not sure I am. I envy your ability to always come straight from the heart and not falter, which may be 4 or perhaps your stronger sx. I relate to your post in how, when I am watching a group performance, I may enjoy the group as a whole, but I do tend to fixate on the most "juicy" of the group. I am hyperaware of any magnetism between themself and myself. I do also feel the pull and push.

From reading your sx-dom thread, I get the sense that I have some burning sx inside but don't exude it outwardly. It's true that I strongly shy from putting off others. I want deep bonding but not at the expense of offending others. I don't do "us against the world" as much as "us working together to help the world". That's what has me confused - is that sx/so, or so/sx?

-

@Aleda - Thank you very much for clarifying that... the sense of connection>hierarchy prioritization. I tend to get deep quickly with anyone 1-on-1, but that sense of internal order is hard to ignore for me.

In terms of "brokeness", I had a very unusual childhood due to a severe medical condition, so I have always been rather different socially than most people I know. When I was very young, I mostly interacted with adults, because I couldn't be around peers for danger of infection, and saw little use in talking to my peers later on - from my POV, adults were easier to talk to, less cliquey, and more informative. I was simultaneously socially stunted and advanced as a result, and have always felt the wake of that. But I've always felt somewhat "broken" in the sx sense because of deep feelings of longing and yearning. But I don't feel like that's a bad broken, just a natural human sort of broken. Do you relate with that feeling as a sx-second? The social aspect is more of a "stupid" kind of broken, like I feel like I can see it but am incompetent at using it.

-

@Rasofy - You are kind as always. :) What do you mean by shoulds and shouldn'ts? I do have some shoulds and shouldn'ts, I think, but they're more about the nature of good relations and less about specifics, if that makes sense. It essentially boils down to I think everyone has a responsibility to not harm, as much as they possibly can control. Beyond that everyone should be free to do what they want.

-

@PeaceBaby - Yes, I do agree that you and I share some vibe, though I think you're definitely stronger than me socially. You seem more... "removed" in a way? Like you are better at pulling back. Though I think that so/sx makes more sense for you, too. As for nuance - I don't think I ever not notice social nuance, even when in hot pursuit. I think social nuance is even one of the things I find attractive - I like to watch how others interact socially and what kind of social wake they leave.

One thing that has been bothering me, though, is how I can get a little bit socially stupid when caught up in sx matters. For example, I had two enormous crushes that went poorly in college. The first was a little freshman thing, and I was totally head over heels for a super-involved ExFJ in student government, and I joined a group of his and did a bunch of work for them essentially completely for the sake of liking him. I'm not sure if it was obvious or not... I was never sure. I cared about their cause, but not nearly as much as I cared about him! It fell out when I discovered he had a secret girlfriend. I was disappointed that he was attached and I thought it was stupid that she was "secret", so that was the end of that. I still look him up sometimes. The second crush was longer and more serious, a super-involved ENFJ, that I became fairly close to. I joined one group a little after her, not for her sake (but her being in it made it more exciting), and another at her invitation. As I got into the groups, I began to differ from her in my orientation to the groups - I felt more in sync with the groups and less of a need to tailor them towards what I wanted (she was very headstrong and so/sp, and very clear about her agenda). I still regret how I tended to side with her over melding more with the group - and now, years later, I've reconnected with those groups as an individual and am the more lastingly-involved of the two of us, strangely enough. I don't know what all this says about my instinct... whether I was blinded by sx or whether I was doing my so/sx "order" thing and she was coming before the groups.

As for social nuance - I guess I always see it. It doesn't seem draining. Neither does sx, though. No clues there.

-

@Elfboy - So I did the test, but I had a little trouble because I don't relate to all parts of each number. I figured I'd do it the hard way and respond to each line.

Just by numbers, I came out 41 so and 40 sx. :doh:



-
@OrangeAppled - Yes, it's very accurate that I seek deep, long-lasting bonds. And thank you. :blush: I try to be cautious... I don't see a point in repelling people. I don't want to, mostly because I like to bond with everyone, plus the 6 in me says it will only bite me in the butt if I do.
 

Amargith

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

Fwiw, I do subscribe to the us working together to help the world-thing in general. In fact, it is how I approach the world - groups, friends, acquaintances. With an So though, I do use the us agains the world approach - more to solve the difficulties that life tends to throw at you. I find that standing together as a team to take those on is key to maintaining a happy, healthy and emotionally close relationship with your partner. I will readily admit though that I *need* my sx-fix, aka my thirst for emotional closeness quenched for me to be able to do the whole helping the world-bit. If not, I feel like a vampire on animal blood. The whole helping-the-world bit does get me enough to survive on...but it is going to make me cranky without having any intense bonding and it will exhaust the shit out of me in the end. Properly fed though...I'm able to bring my own sx-juice to the table in helping others, so to speak.

As for the offending others thing...I had trouble learning to give people space when I was younger (didnt quite get not everyone shared my preference, and when I did realize it, why that was and how to go about changing my approach), but I too rather not offend people and feel sort of nonstop restrained in an so-corset in order to respect the fact that others do not exactly enjoy burning intensity and intimacy the same way I do. I do believe people have the right to rebuff your good intentions if it aint for them and while it can be hard to keep things reigned in, no is no (and reluctance is a good indicator to no). It can ruin good relationships in a heart beat and cause a bunch of misunderstandings that are ultimately not worth it. It is exhausting though..kind of like holding in your belly non-stop. So when someone gives the green light to let it all hang out...man does it feel good :D
 

skylights

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Instinctual Variant
so/sx
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]With an So though, I do use the us agains the world approach - more to solve the difficulties that life tends to throw at you. I find that standing together as a team to take those on is key to maintaining a happy, healthy and emotionally close relationship with your partner. I will readily admit though that I *need* my sx-fix, aka my thirst for emotional closeness quenched for me to be able to do the whole helping the world-bit. If not, I feel like a vampire on animal blood. The whole helping-the-world bit does get me enough to survive on...but it is going to make me cranky without having any intense bonding and it will exhaust the shit out of me in the end. Properly fed though...I'm able to bring my own sx-juice to the table in helping others, so to speak.

I know what you mean by this... though I actually sometimes struggle when my partner is feeling upset at someone/something, because my natural (phobic 6?) response is to defend that person or thing. I do feel very much on a team with my partner, of course. I felt more "us against the world" in a previous relationship, and I delighted in it at times, but it also felt false at times - like once I was away from my partner, I would feel embarrassed and disconnected. But with my partner, it was awesome being in our little clique looking out at the world together.

:thinking: Actually I wonder if that's more so/sx of me after all if I was enjoying the feel of the partnership because of the bond (looking out together) rather than because of the connection (looking at one another).

As for the offending others thing...I had trouble learning to give people space when I was younger (didnt quite get not everyone shared my preference, and when I did realize it, why that was and how to go about changing my approach), but I too rather not offend people and feel sort of nonstop restrained in an so-corset in order to respect the fact that others do not exactly enjoy burning intensity and intimacy the same way I do. I do believe people have the right to rebuff your good intentions if it aint for them and while it can be hard to keep things reigned in, no is no (and reluctance is a good indicator to no). It can ruin good relationships in a heart beat and cause a bunch of misunderstandings that are ultimately not worth it. It is exhausting though..kind of like holding in your belly non-stop. So when someone gives the green light to let it all hang out...man does it feel good :D

Hah, yeah, that's the truth.

I never really had a problem with getting too close/too much, but I was always hypersensitive to interpersonal relations, and restrained as a result.
 
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