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Stuck on the N/S fence

Viridian

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So, apparently I have auxiliar Fe from what I've gleaned of my interaction with others here. However, partly mostly because of the S/N ballyhoo that always happens when that dichotomy is discussed, I've sort of felt ambivalent about my own dominant Perceiving function for a good while. That, and young SJ adulthood in the internet age is probably the sort of thing that challenges a lot of trusty SJ archetypes.

So, I dunno if this could help me get rid of that X (unless I feel people will judge me differently if I pick one letter or other), but, if you have any good questions to disambiguate the S/N dichotomy or opinions about my major letter, would you be so kind as to give me a hand?
 

rubi2cube

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So, apparently I have auxiliar Fe from what I've gleaned of my interaction with others here. However, partly mostly because of the S/N ballyhoo that always happens when that dichotomy is discussed, I've sort of felt ambivalent about my own dominant Perceiving function for a good while. That, and young SJ adulthood in the internet age is probably the sort of thing that challenges a lot of trusty SJ archetypes.

So, I dunno if this could help me get rid of that X (unless I feel people will judge me differently if I pick one letter or other), but, if you have any good questions to disambiguate the S/N dichotomy or opinions about my major letter, would you be so kind as to give me a hand?

If your Enneagram is 6, it is doubtable that you are INFJ.
 

chickpea

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I think you're an ISFJ.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
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If your Enneagram is 6, it is doubtable that you are INFJ.

Why not? 6 seems all over the map MBTI wise.

I think 6 might be a little more common with ISFJ but no reason why it can't work for INFJ.
 

Viridian

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Why not? 6 seems all over the map MBTI wise.

I think 6 might be a little more common with ISFJ but no reason why it can't work for INFJ.

I think SilkRoad was an INFJ 6w5?

In any case, it's also possible that I might be a 9, as my signature states, so that may be a misleading venue of thought...
 

EJCC

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I think SilkRoad was an INFJ 6w5?
Yep! A great example of an INFJ 6 with counterphobic tendencies. (She actually left the forum because she couldn't stop herself from posting replies to people who made her angry.)

I believe [MENTION=10431]Rail Tracer[/MENTION] is another INFJ 6?
 
T

The Iron Giant

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You're right. Most people don't seem to want to accept that Ni and Si are as similar as they are, even to the user. Both have the detachment from the object, dealing in impressions and symbols, and both operate largely invisibly to the outside world.

My preferred way of drawing this distinction is to evaluate the interaction between the dominant and inferior functions in the person. I think a HEAVILY stressed Si/Ne will be more likely to withdraw and catastrophize and mask (unconscious Ne making us afraid of "ghosts" in a way, and cover for unhappiness with impulsive behavior like shopping), while a stressed Ni/Se will instead be more likely to retreat into hedonism (unconscious Se making them exhibit an unhealthy self-indulgent body focused distraction, like abusing alcohol, food or sex).
 

Rail Tracer

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Honestly, I have similar conundrums as [MENTION=12223]Viridian[/MENTION]. So I can't, as of yet, give you my perspective on IXFJ.

But I did reach to the conclusion that I am more than likely to be a 6 instead of a 9. But that is because I think I've found the underlying motive for many of my actions, and that is just thinking too much or thinking too far (that took me forever to find out.) Within every action I make comes with a thought of some sort and I often let my thoughts carry me away. The thoughts lead to self-doubt about the right course of action to take and such. The whole thing is second-nature that I didn't notice it until people pointed out. It is often disguised to look like I'm unmoved, though.

When I do seem to look like a 9 is when my mind doesn't feel like it is on hyper-drive (like right now.)

Have you look at your underlying emotions yet? (the whole fear/anxiety or anger/gut)

The Six in the Thinking Centre

Sixes have a hard time getting in touch with their thinking and inner guidance. Like Fives, they focus their thinking inward to avoid external threats, but they have serious doubts about their own abilities. Consequently, they seek reassurance and confirmation outside themselves. However, Sixes may start to doubt their authority figures, resulting in a vacillating between their own ideas and those of others. Sixes seek security by finding something (or someone) in which to believe. By having a clear set of rules or beliefs, Sixes will gain confidence to cope with life. Sixes feel they must earn their security. They believe if they do their part for the authority, it will take care of them. Sixes are constantly aware of their anxiety and always react against it. Sometimes, they rely on their authority to allay their fears, sometimes they will courageously confront their fears directly.

The Nine in the Instinctive Centre

Nines are out of touch with their instinctual drives. Nines believe that expressing their views or asserting their needs will cause conflict or lack of harmony. Nines shut down most of their instincts by repressing and denying their own wants and needs. Nines try to maintain their autonomy by resisting change (both external pressures and passionate feelings). Nines often accommodate and go with the flow (in a sense giving up their independence), but they do so with the agreement to give the Nine her own space to do her own thing. If they don't get that space, their underlying rage may come out in passive-aggressive forms.
 

21%

You have a choice!
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When you are given a project, can you just sit down and start working on it?

This is one major difference between me and my ISFJ mom. She can just tackle problems. I need a lot of upfront thinking time where it appears that I'm not even thinking about the project at all, then it will come to me in tiny bits and flashes, floating around in my head for a long while like little fishlets, and just right before the deadline everything will crash into place and I now have to work until 2am to put it all into reality.
 

Viridian

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You're right. Most people don't seem to want to accept that Ni and Si are as similar as they are, even to the user. Both have the detachment from the object, dealing in impressions and symbols, and both operate largely invisibly to the outside world.

My preferred way of drawing this distinction is to evaluate the interaction between the dominant and inferior functions in the person. I think a HEAVILY stressed Si/Ne will be more likely to withdraw and catastrophize and mask (unconscious Ne making us afraid of "ghosts" in a way, and cover for unhappiness with impulsive behavior like shopping), while a stressed Ni/Se will instead be more likely to retreat into hedonism (unconscious Se making them exhibit an unhealthy self-indulgent body focused distraction, like abusing alcohol, food or sex).

The Si/Ne here does sound more like me, except for the shopping thing. I do try to distract myself, bu I'd say it's more like keeping myself busy, in a way. I find it hard to relax nowadays.

Honestly, I have similar conundrums as Viridian. So I can't, as of yet, give you my perspective on IXFJ.

But I did reach to the conclusion that I am more than likely to be a 6 instead of a 9. But that is because I think I've found the underlying motive for many of my actions, and that is just thinking too much or thinking too far (that took me forever to find out.) Within every action I make comes with a thought of some sort and I often let my thoughts carry me away. The thoughts lead to self-doubt about the right course of action to take and such. The whole thing is second-nature that I didn't notice it until people pointed out. It is often disguised to look like I'm unmoved, though.

When I do seem to look like a 9 is when my mind doesn't feel like it is on hyper-drive (like right now.)

Have you look at your underlying emotions yet? (the whole fear/anxiety or anger/gut)

Given those descriptions, I do relate more to 6, though I'm also very conflict-avoidant (in a somewhat compulsive way). I guess it's hard for me to tell because I simultaneously care too much about things and get stuck in ruts of apathy?

When you are given a project, can you just sit down and start working on it?

This is one major difference between me and my ISFJ mom. She can just tackle problems. I need a lot of upfront thinking time where it appears that I'm not even thinking about the project at all, then it will come to me in tiny bits and flashes, floating around in my head for a long while like little fishlets, and just right before the deadline everything will crash into place and I now have to work until 2am to put it all into reality.

I do have some problems with procrastination. Things always seem stressful or daunting, so there's sort of a psychological resistance to doing them to some extent.

Thanks for your help!
 

EJCC

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Part of me thinks that you have to be a 9, simply by virtue of how hard it is for you to decide your type without giving equal weight to every other possibility :laugh:

As for MBTI, I lean more towards ISFJ because I don't see much, if any, Ni, in you.
 

skylights

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@Viridian :hug:

Part of me thinks that you have to be a 9, simply by virtue of how hard it is for you to decide your type without giving equal weight to every other possibility :laugh:

As for MBTI, I lean more towards ISFJ because I don't see much, if any, Ni, in you.

:yes:

Si/Ni barometer - think about the physical area around you - the city, town, whatever. How do you tend to classify the entities in the area, by proper names, or by meaning/function? Describe a few of your favorite places and why they are special to you.

Read my spoiler after you think about this please, not before! :)

 

Viridian

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:yes:

Si/Ni barometer - think about the physical area around you - the city, town, whatever. How do you tend to classify the entities in the area, by proper names, or by meaning/function? Describe a few of your favorite places and why they are special to you.

Read my spoiler after you think about this please, not before! :)


Ooh, a litmus test! Let me try... Gonna answer it without looking at the spoiler and maybe edit it afterwards.

Well, I usually know the names of places I visit often or use as reference points while driving. (Reference points are very useful to me, since I often forget the names of streets and such.) However, I have a bit of a limited scope - I often don't remember much beyond the sorts of things I have to, or the pathways I've taken quite frequently. Interestingly, once my therapist asked me what the backside of my own university looked like, and I had to admit I had never thought about it!

Some of my favorite places... Well, I don't have my "haunts", per se, but I do like:

* The bookstore at a nearby mall, for its huge size and availability of books in English (although I'm often too anxious or overwhelmed to buy anything in-store);

* The parks I walk through on some weekends, because the atmosphere is pretty refreshing and at least one of them is close to a mall where you can go to in case it gets dark or you get a major hankering for freshly made pretzels;

* Quite a few restaurants, especially the ones without a lot of noise/chatter.

Now I'll read what you posted and respond later...
 

Viridian

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: Considering what you wrote, do you glean Si or Ni from my descriptions?
 

lunalum

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I get a pretty strong Si-Ne vibe from you overall, but take with that where you will........
 

EJCC

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[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: Considering what you wrote, do you glean Si or Ni from my descriptions?
Deflecting! Again, 9-ish. :laugh: But that's not what this thread is about.

What do YOU think, after having read the descriptions she posted?

(I think Si, with your answers, but that's just me.)
 

Viridian

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Deflecting! Again, 9-ish. :laugh: But that's not what this thread is about.

What do YOU think, after having read the descriptions she posted?

(I think Si, with your answers, but that's just me.)

It's a tough call! On one hand, I guess I did seem pretty concrete when describing these places, but, OTOH, I am wondering what the "intuitive" version of that account would sound like.

The S/N question is a bit hard for me not just because it's a heavily polarized juxtaposition of archetypes as classically envisoned (the mystic/sage and the healer/supporter), but also because I've been considered absent-minded by some people all my life (especially by my father), so I tend to consciously accrue the details as a way of making up for it, but I'm not entirely sure if that's a N/S thing or not.

In either case, I have some traits and deviations that do not conform to the "pure" description of the types (don't we all) - like how no individual case of mental illness is a 100% boilerplate list of symptons - but I don't know what or how much is within the explanatory model of MBTI. You get me, EJ?
 

Such Irony

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Ooh, a litmus test! Let me try... Gonna answer it without looking at the spoiler and maybe edit it afterwards.

Well, I usually know the names of places I visit often or use as reference points while driving. (Reference points are very useful to me, since I often forget the names of streets and such.) However, I have a bit of a limited scope - I often don't remember much beyond the sorts of things I have to, or the pathways I've taken quite frequently. Interestingly, once my therapist asked me what the backside of my own university looked like, and I had to admit I had never thought about it!

I do much the same thing. I rely heavily on reference points in getting from A to B. I'm bad at giving directions to people because they will want street names or want to know how many blocks I travel on this street before turning, etc. I often don't remember street names unless they are ones I regularly drive on. I rely alot on reference points too. Basically, I tend to pay attention mainly to things I have to pay attention to or that are of real interest to me. I tend to tune just about everything else out. I too can be oblivious to things like the backside of a building unless it there is something unusual about it to make it stand out from other buildings.

I'm thinking this suggests Si > Se. Se pays attention more indiscriminately to their surroundings. Si seems to have more of a filter as to what it takes in but then takes in what it takes in more deeply.
 

EJCC

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It's a tough call! On one hand, I guess I did seem pretty concrete when describing these places, but, OTOH, I am wondering what the "intuitive" version of that account would sound like.
That's a good question for [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]... I think the N version would be more focused on the place's relevance in a broad, global/universal sense, vs. its relevance to you and your past/current experience. More abstract and less concrete. But I'm not sure about this.
The S/N question is a bit hard for me not just because it's a heavily polarized juxtaposition of archetypes as classically envisoned (the mystic/sage and the healer/supporter), but also because I've been considered absent-minded by some people all my life (especially by my father), so I tend to consciously accrue the details as a way of making up for it, but I'm not entirely sure if that's a N/S thing or not.
I don't think it's N/S, but I think it's Se vs. Si. My dad (INTP) and I are both the absent-minded ones in the family. My INFJ mom, on the other hand -- who has strong enough Se that she scores borderline S/N on tests -- is the one who has to clean up after us. I was notorious, as a kid, for forgetting to take things home from school, or forgetting to take things to school from home. A lunchbox, my backpack...

Also I recall skylights saying something about her ISFJ being absent-minded?
In either case, I have some traits and deviations that do not conform to the "pure" description of the types (don't we all) - like how no individual case of mental illness is a 100% boilerplate list of symptons - but I don't know what or how much is within the explanatory model of MBTI. You get me, EJ?
Yep!

This is where you cut out all the stereotypes and focus in on the core of the functions and the core of the type. Which elements matter more? Which are stereotype and which are fact? Then you see if those fit you, and if they do, you're good to go.

Edit: I think a good place to start, with this, would be removing behavior descriptions from everything you read. At its core, the MBTI describes thought processes, NOT behavioral tendencies. Presuming behavior from thought processes is where MBTI stereotypes come from.
I'm thinking this suggests Si > Se. Se pays attention more indiscriminately to their surroundings. Si seems to have more of a filter as to what it takes in but then takes in what it takes in more deeply.
:yes: !
 
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