What would you type this person as?

[mintleaf]

I usually don't care what people's types are, but this person's type has been so difficult to even guess at that I actually want to figure it out. This is a friend from school who is a definite extrovert, definite so/sp, and probably either a 6, 2 or 3.

I'm not really sure what to say, so here's a basic profile:

• Calm and flexible, but driven and immovable when it counts.
• Asks questions constantly and is more capable than most when it comes to handling complex ideas. Seems to stem more from a need to be doing things "correctly" than out of pure curiosity. Has trouble quieting her mind.
• Incredibly inclusive and devoted to making positive social connections. Seems genuine to me.
• Rarely (if ever) displays any kind of passion or seriousness. One of the most light-hearted people I know. Self-deprecating and fairly open, but doesn't ever show real vulnerability. It's just like there's not a lot beneath the surface. That's how she appears, at least.
• Not an NF.
• If I had to make a list of her 10 best qualities, creative wouldn't be on it. She's pretty uninterested in blazing new paths, but great at picking up on rhetorical tones and analyzing/parodying them.
• Comes across as very S. Strong intuiting function, though.
• If she's an Fi user (kind of doubt it), she's pretty out of touch with it. Once said "I believe in God because I feel like I should."
• A rule-follower. My initial interpretation of her cognitive functions would make her an ExTP, but that...does not seem likely at all.
• I assume she's Ne-Si/Si-Ne just because of our similarities in thought process. I can't describe it well, but I'm pretty sure that everything I've read relating to that axis would apply as well to her as it would to me.

After writing that out, the possibilities seem more obvious now.

I'm leaning towards ESFJ, but I just don't see her as a dominant feeler. Maybe ESTJ? What do you think?

I'm mostly just curious about the MBTI type, but if you have thoughts about enneagram, that would be interesting too.

 

[Oblivious]

This is tricky (there is a lot to consider) why ESTJ? Could you elaborate.

 

[Thalassa]

A calm and passionless ESFJ? That's strange. I'd suspect that more of an ISFJ. Is it possible she's a very "friendly" or "chatty" ISFJ?

Or maybe ESTJ. With a lot of Ne? I don't know.

 

[Mal12345]

I usually don't care what people's types are, but this person's type has been so difficult to even guess at that I actually want to figure it out. This is a friend from school who is a definite extrovert, definite so/sp, and probably either a 6, 2 or 3.

I'm not really sure what to say, so here's a basic profile:

• Calm and flexible, but driven and immovable when it counts.
• Asks questions constantly and is more capable than most when it comes to handling complex ideas. Seems to stem more from a need to be doing things "correctly" than out of pure curiosity. Has trouble quieting her mind.
• Incredibly inclusive and devoted to making positive social connections. Seems genuine to me.
• Rarely (if ever) displays any kind of passion or seriousness. One of the most light-hearted people I know. Self-deprecating and fairly open, but doesn't ever show real vulnerability. It's just like there's not a lot beneath the surface. That's how she appears, at least.
• Not an NF.
• If I had to make a list of her 10 best qualities, creative wouldn't be on it. She's pretty uninterested in blazing new paths, but great at picking up on rhetorical tones and analyzing/parodying them.
• Comes across as very S. Strong intuiting function, though.
• If she's an Fi user (kind of doubt it), she's pretty out of touch with it. Once said "I believe in God because I feel like I should."
• A rule-follower. My initial interpretation of her cognitive functions would make her an ExTP, but that...does not seem likely at all.
• I assume she's Ne-Si/Si-Ne just because of our similarities in thought process. I can't describe it well, but I'm pretty sure that everything I've read relating to that axis would apply as well to her as it would to me.

After writing that out, the possibilities seem more obvious now.

I'm leaning towards ESFJ, but I just don't see her as a dominant feeler. Maybe ESTJ? What do you think?

I'm mostly just curious about the MBTI type, but if you have thoughts about enneagram, that would be interesting too.

I can't make much out of your description. Calm and flexible? That only confuses the issue. List some MBTI characteristics.

 

[mintleaf]

A calm and passionless ESFJ? That's strange. I'd suspect that more of an ISFJ. Is it possible she's a very "friendly" or "chatty" ISFJ?

Or maybe ESTJ. With a lot of Ne? I don't know.

Yeah, now that I think about it, there's no way she's an ESFJ or ESTJ. She'd be an extremely unusual ISFJ, but that seems like the most plausible conclusion. (Might be the most socially extroverted ISFJ to ever live, though.)

And "passionless" was coming from an INFx sx-dom. I know her empathy for others is real, I'm just at a loss to understand how she experiences it because it manifests so differently than mine.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah, now that I think about it, there's no way she's an ESFJ or ESTJ. She'd be an extremely unusual ISFJ, but that seems like the most plausible conclusion. (Might be the most socially extroverted ISFJ to ever live, though.)

And "passionless" was coming from an INFx sx-dom. I know her empathy for others is real, I'm just at a loss to understand how she experiences it because it manifests so differently than mine.

I've never been unclear on an ESFJ's passion.

ISFJs, though, different story, especially if they're 2s (well behaved and nice) or 9s (laid back and intentionally keeping a kind of distance from their own anger, and passion may have a vein of anger running through it) ...even the "MBTI Asshole" descriptions thread describes ISFJ as wanting things they don't want to tell you that they desperately want, because then that would ruin it. LOL. Exaggeration of course, but I think they're less likely to be "rudely" or overbearingly "passionate."

Because I'm assuming you're talking about passion about ethics or causes or people, not in the sense of sexual passion. That's something else entirely.

I think ISFJ could be a strong possibility, particularly if she's got a lot of Fe (sounds like it) and has a strong social instinct. I don't know her in person, though.

I mean are you around her all the time? Are you sure she's not just social in bursts or in certain scenarios, then withdraws?

This sounds like something a smart ISFJ would be good at:

She's pretty uninterested in blazing new paths, but great at picking up on rhetorical tones and analyzing/parodying them.

One of the things that people forget ISFJs are stereotyped for is being comedians.

I immediately thought ISFJ when you said she was calm and relatively passionless, but intent on making social connections and on inclusiveness. You also had me at "self-deprecating and fairly open but doesn't show real vulnerability."

I believe in God because I feel like I should sounds pretty Si/Fe or Fe/Si to me. Why do you think she has strong intuition? Because she's intelligent?

What does she do? What is she interested in? Where do you know her from?

 

[mintleaf]

What does she do? What is she interested in? Where do you know her from?

She's about to graduate high school with me and go on to study engineering. She seems pretty interested in social dynamics and discrepancies between people's perspectives, demeanor, and even aesthetics. Interested in pop culture in a detached, comedic way. Her reasons for going into engineering is that she likes math and science and wants a very well-paying job.

Why do you think she has strong intuition? Because she's intelligent?

lol, touche. now that I think about it, inferior Ne wouldn't be unlikely.

I mean are you around her all the time? Are you sure she's not just social in bursts or in certain scenarios, then withdraws?

Nope, outside of school I think she just works and hangs out with close friends and family. (I know that before she had a job, she often chose to spend weekends at her grandparents, which everyone thought was strange for a homecoming queen.) I've had most of my classes in HS with her and talk to her every day (guess how often I'm the initiator), but you're right - even though it's hard for me to imagine scenarios in which she's not jumping at every opportunity to connect with new people, I don't think she minds time alone. I'm not even sure if I've ever heard her talk about being bored.

 

[Thalassa]

She's about to graduate high school with me and go on to study engineering. She seems pretty interested in social dynamics and discrepancies between people's perspectives, demeanor, and even aesthetics. Interested in pop culture in a detached, comedic way. Her reasons for going into engineering is that she likes math and science and wants a very well-paying job.



lol, touche. now that I think about it, inferior Ne wouldn't be unlikely.



Nope, outside of school I think she just works and hangs out with close friends and family. (I know that before she had a job, she often chose to spend weekends at her grandparents, which everyone thought was strange for a homecoming queen.) I've had most of my classes in HS with her and talk to her every day (guess how often I'm the initiator), but you're right - even though it's hard for me to imagine scenarios in which she's not jumping at every opportunity to connect with new people, I don't think she minds time alone. I'm not even sure if I've ever heard her talk about being bored.

I think she sounds like potentially a really smart ISFJ. Could even be ISTJ. Because when you say she's interested in social perspectives, I mean do you mean she kind of stands outside of it and mocks it? That doesn't sound a lot like high-school age Fe to me.

I know a guy who is ISFj in Socionics and ISTJ in Jung who is absolutely smart, hilarious, into aesthetics, and has this kind of self-deprecating but also sometimes mean to others humor; he also lacks any obvious passion and comes across as fairly calm and detached unless you hurt his feelings or piss him off, but it comes out only once and a while, he mostly likes to stay detached (E9). This gives him a quality that when I was spending a lot of time with him I could feel his empathy, and he showed me his feelings more through actions (like listening to me, showing me new music, being loyal and reliable) than talking very deeply about his feelings. He has deep feelings, though, they just kind of radiate off him, and the more I got to know him, more and more would come out, but mostly he seemed uncomfortable with it. Definitely not comfortable with it with just anyone, came across to a lot of other people apparently as being a completely detached and unsympathetic jerk.

He also told me once that his mind is always running, he's always thinking, and that just because he's not saying anything doesn't mean he isn't thinking (I thought about your friend saying she's always thinking).

He also came across as "light hearted" or "teasing" or "sarcastic" a lot to keep up the detachment, and only showed a lot more seriousness and passion once I got to know him; he actually has really strong ethics and gets very upset about his ethics being violated. He just doesn't "broadcast it" in an obvious way. He is older than your friend though, you know, like 30, not 18.

I can't imagine him saying something like he believed in God because he felt like he should. To me that is such a stereotypical SFJ trait to say something, and it makes me think your friend is more likely solidly ISFJ instead of ISTJ.

Spending a lot of time alone with her grandparents and stuff makes me think she probably is an introvert.

But maybe I see similarities here because of an intelligent person having Si dominance. I swear I think you're describing an Si dom.

She probably jumps at opportunities to connect with people because of Fe.

I'd say she's an ISFJ.

I feel pretty sure of it.

 

[mintleaf]

I think she sounds like potentially a really smart ISFJ. Could even be ISTJ. Because when you say she's interested in social perspectives, I mean do you mean she kind of stands outside of it and mocks it? That doesn't sound a lot like high-school age Fe to me.

She mocks others good-naturedly as a way to maintain a light, warm social atmosphere. For example, there's this other girl in our grade who is seen by everyone as utterly ridiculous: hugely over-dramatic, lacking in self-awareness, etc. Most people mention her as a way to prompt laughter when she's not around, but my friend genuinely enjoys her inanity (even though she doesn't take her seriously as a person; I don't know to what extent she takes anyone seriously) and "makes fun of her" in her presence.

I don't think she realizes the subtly dismissive nature of her humor, or she'd feel horrible. I'm glad she's oblivious to it, though, because I think it's hilarious.

I know a guy who is ISFj in Socionics and ISTJ in Jung who is absolutely smart, hilarious, into aesthetics, and has this kind of self-deprecating but also sometimes mean to others humor; he also lacks any obvious passion and comes across as fairly calm and detached unless you hurt his feelings or piss him off, but it comes out only once and a while, he mostly likes to stay detached (E9). This gives him a quality that when I was spending a lot of time with him I could feel his empathy, and he showed me his feelings more through actions (like listening to me, showing me new music, being loyal and reliable) than talking very deeply about his feelings. He has deep feelings, though, they just kind of radiate off him, and the more I got to know him, more and more would come out, but mostly he seemed uncomfortable with it. Definitely not comfortable with it with just anyone, came across to a lot of other people apparently as being a completely detached and unsympathetic jerk.

He certainly sounds like an interesting person, but not at all like my friend.

I'd say she's an ISFJ.

I feel pretty sure of it.

Me too. Thanks for your help!

 

[Thalassa]

She mocks others good-naturedly as a way to maintain a light, warm social atmosphere. For example, there's this other girl in our grade who is seen by everyone as utterly ridiculous: hugely over-dramatic, lacking in self-awareness, etc. Most people mention her as a way to prompt laughter when she's not around, but my friend genuinely enjoys her inanity (even though she doesn't take her seriously as a person; I don't know to what extent she takes anyone seriously) and "makes fun of her" in her presence.

Yeah sounds like Fe.

I don't think she realizes the subtly dismissive nature of her humor, or she'd feel horrible. I'm glad she's oblivious to it, though, because I think it's hilarious.

Or she realizes it and doesn't want you to know, so that she remains in pleasant good graces with everyone.

He certainly sounds like an interesting person, but not at all like my friend.

That's cuz he has tertiary Fi, really heavy Fi, but Fi. Your friend, if not at all like this, is most likely genuinely Fe.

I just wondered because you talked about her mocking quality and talking about her going into engineering and liking math did make me wonder if ISTJ was more feasible, just you know, out of that kind of stereotypical thinking (my ISTJ grandfather was an engineer and thought math was the holy grail).

Me too. Thanks for your help!

Great! You're welcome.