INTP or INTJ?

[Poki]

Interesting, but i dont really agree with the characterization of Te vs Ti. I could care less about best practices. All i care about is what works.

To my dad(INTJ)..."best practice" is defined as "what works". So to discuss "best practice" is to discuss what works. For me best practice is a combination of "what works" and "organization". Once I find something that works I like things to be organized and run smoothly.

 

[highlander]

To my dad(INTJ)..."best practice" is defined as "what works". So to discuss "best practice" is to discuss what works. For me best practice is a combination of "what works" and "organization". Once I find something that works I like things to be organized and run smoothly.

The problem with "best practice" is that no best practice is ideally suited to the situation at hand. It can always be evolved, tailored for the situation at hand and made better. So, it's a good concept but is an oxymoron of sorts for me. Also, efficiency and organization are very much things that INTJs strive for. The point is that the way you're describing the difference between Ti and Te is not the best way to characterize it. I'll provide more thoughts later.

 

[WALMART]

How often do you view yourself and your actions in the third person?

 

[tsumatachi_san]

Reasons for intj below

-I'm very driven, almost perfectionistic - if something doesn't live up to my standards, I want to alter it (including myself - for example, if I don't do so well in a test, I'll throw myself into studying for the next one as well as reviewing everything I did wrong).

I was always like that. I think some intps are perfectionistic too. In general, an intj will be more anal though.

-I tend to be oblivious to my environment to a large extent - I didn't notice the electricity had cut off in my house until my laptop battery sign popped up saying it was discharging, then I realised I was sat in darkness. I also usually make two or three trips back to my room before I leave, due to either forgetting things or being convinced I've forgotten something. This has been commented on by a lot of people (my mum calls it 'being artistic' and I respond with calling it 'being stupid').

Inferior extraverted sensing

-I'm not great with making conversation with people I don't know - I'm not good at small talk, so I tend to not say anything for quite a while

Typical for N intj to hate small talk. I was the same way when younger

-I'm slightly neurotic in the way I feel the need to double- or triple-check things - I never trust myself to pack my back properly, so I check it several times before leaving, and I make sure my work's in order (even if that order is in piles of paper on the floor).

Inferior extraverted sensing

-I'm usually very much 'to the point' in writing and conversations - I'm an under-writer for essays (well, used to be, as I've almost worked myself out of doing that) and I've been told I'm good at condensing big points into a couple of words.

Typical intj concise writing. Intps can be really good writers too but generally not as concise as an intj.

I'm interested in the link between biology and psychology to an almost obsessive level (when I was twelve or so, I used to spend hours researching mental illnesses.

-I can be very obsessive about things and used to re-read books and/or listen to one song repeatedly (this may be OCD, as it runs in my family).

Intj focus on one thing in depth. Mindless repetitive behavior characteristic of inferior extraverted sensing

-I'm quite good at reading people, so if they act up, I can explain to them why they're acting the way they are (I know it's annoying to do so). I also spend time analysing people and how they react to certain things.

Intjs are good at reading people. Overanalysis is typical. I do that too

Definite yes to overanalysis - I drive people crazy by continuing analysis of a subject for a long period of time (especially psychological motivation for actions). Thanks, this was a very clear post

You sound like an I for sure, me, my brother, my dad, and most Is I know dont really like to talk to people, only those few people that they have got to know and that is something an I doesnt really go out and do a whole lot. My dad/brother(both IJs) seem to judge people and I just get bored alot of the time talking to most people. I will play it off like I am interested, but I am really not. The people I reach out to are the ones who I tend to be more interested in talking with everyone else is usally out of politeness.

Yeah, I only enjoy talking to a couple of people. The rest of the time I'm nodding and smiling without really hearing what they're saying - especially people in class. I can end up getting irritated when people talk to me for no good reason (like a random guy in the street telling me to smile).

How often do you view yourself and your actions in the third person?

Interesting question. I suppose reasonably often, but not enough to worry about having some kind of disorder - I have a snarky voice in the back of my mind, though (i.e. when I drop something it goes 'oh, well done' in a sarcastic tone).

 

[highlander]

Yeah, I only enjoy talking to a couple of people. The rest of the time I'm nodding and smiling without really hearing what they're saying - especially people in class. I can end up getting irritated when people talk to me for no good reason (like a random guy in the street telling me to smile).

It is a bad habit because people know you're not listening to them or taking their perspective into consideration but yes. I do this a) when I'm bored with what they are saying or b) when I'm thinking about what they are saying - interpreting and building on specific points that come up. In either case, the impact is that you're losing attention to the current conversation.

 

[tsumatachi_san]

It is a bad habit because people know you're not listening to them or taking their perspective into consideration but yes. I do this a) when I'm bored with what they are saying or b) when I'm thinking about what they are saying - interpreting and building on specific points that come up. In either case, the impact is that you're losing attention to the current conversation.

Yeah, I've been caught doing that a couple of times. If people call me on it, I'm usually surprised because I was sure I'd be fine just going on auto-response (it does work the majority of the time).

 

[tsumatachi_san]

I just read some information on INTJ 9w1s - apparently they're very unlike the stereotypes, so I'm seeing this as a possibility. What do you think?

 

[WALMART]

What has been your favorite topic to study and why?

 

[tsumatachi_san]

What has been your favorite topic to study and why?

Language mostly. I've liked English Literature for a long time and I also enjoy studying Japanese. I like how it all works together and enjoy learning about the cultural aspects as well as the language. How come?

 

[WALMART]

Language mostly. I've liked English Literature for a long time and I also enjoy studying Japanese. I like how it all works together and enjoy learning about the cultural aspects as well as the language. How come?

I was trying to perhaps find a discerning factor to distinguish between Ni and Ne use. I'm leaning towards Ne...


You get my INTP stamp.

 

[tsumatachi_san]

I was trying to perhaps find a discerning factor to distinguish between Ni and Ne use. I'm leaning towards Ne...


You get my INTP stamp.

Okay, but why? I'm not entirely sure I understand how a subject preference can define type. Sure, I understand there may be indications from it, but it's not conclusive, is it?

 

[WALMART]

Okay, but why? I'm not entirely sure I understand how a subject preference can define type. Sure, I understand there may be indications from it, but it's not conclusive, is it?

Not conclusive, but indicative. Moar information is rarely worse. Your interest in language, for example, can be interpreted as a preference of Ti - to be able to classify properly the happenings you come across. Ti/Ne users in dom/aux positions have been labeled as 'expert classifiers' by people smarter than I regarding MBTI. They are true masters of differentiating factors, and language is a necessity for thought conducive to this drive.

My decision was not based squarely on this factor. Give me several minutes and I will interpret some other indications you have provided in this thread.

 

[WALMART]

[MENTION=8240]tsumatachi_san[/MENTION]

-I'm very driven, almost perfectionistic - if something doesn't live up to my standards, I want to alter it (including myself - for example, if I don't do so well in a test, I'll throw myself into studying for the next one as well as reviewing everything I did wrong).


This can be viewed as Te use, but it's hard to say in this context. I don't believe that just because there is a preference of Ti it means Te is fifth or beyond in the function order. I would need examples of how you operate in a work environment, or to recall a time you were assigned group work in class, perhaps. What is your preferred method of input regarding group tasks?


-I tend to be oblivious to my environment to a large extent - I didn't notice the electricity had cut off in my house until my laptop battery sign popped up saying it was discharging, then I realised I was sat in darkness. I also usually make two or three trips back to my room before I leave, due to either forgetting things or being convinced I've forgotten something. This has been commented on by a lot of people (my mum calls it 'being artistic' and I respond with calling it 'being stupid').


I think this is a Ti stereotype. I wonder what it is resultant of, directly. I think developed/preferred Ni use.


-I'm not great with making conversation with people I don't know - I'm not good at small talk, so I tend to not say anything for quite a while, until I get where I stand with them. I've learnt to nod and smile at what people say in order to encourage them to talk to me. I don't see myself as having many friends (maybe one or two), but lots of people consider me a friend to them (which I can't understand).


A sign of introversion, at the very least. The last bit... I don't know if INTJ's would think that thought. They would likely understand the group dynamics well enough to understand, and I will bring this up again further in my analysis.


-I'm slightly neurotic in the way I feel the need to double- or triple-check things - I never trust myself to pack my back properly, so I check it several times before leaving, and I make sure my work's in order (even if that order is in piles of paper on the floor). I also take very good care of my possessions, unlike a lot of people I know, who will stuff books into their bags, not caring they get bent out of shape.


I think my first point is applicable enough here.


-I'm usually very much 'to the point' in writing and conversations - I'm an under-writer for essays (well, used to be, as I've almost worked myself out of doing that) and I've been told I'm good at condensing big points into a couple of words.


That 'expert classifier' thing I was talking about.


-My hobbies are reading, writing (mostly science-fiction), drawing occasionally, watching films and listening to music, but I'm interested in the link between biology and psychology to an almost obsessive level (when I was twelve or so, I used to spend hours researching mental illnesses - which my mum thought was unhealthy behaviour).


Writing can be indicative of Ne use, particularly of the science-fiction orient. The interest in biology/psychology can be interpreted as a Ti/Fi preference, but I think the emphasis on the physical structure leans more towards Ti.


-I can be very obsessive about things and used to re-read books and/or listen to one song repeatedly (this may be OCD, as it runs in my family).


I've wondered about this. I've been listening to the same 3 bands near habitually for years, and would rather read 2001: A Space Odyssey again than pick up something new. I have decided the two leading factors are the complexity in my choice of works and the familiarity. I really don't know if that is indicative of anything, and if it is, I do not know what.


-I'm quite good at reading people, so if they act up, I can explain to them why they're acting the way they are (I know it's annoying to do so). I also spend time analyzing people and how they react to certain things.


Analyzing people is a trait shared among INTP's and INTJ's, but I think INTJ's do it more for personal metabolization of events than the INTP drive to externally understand the situation. Does that discern the difference well enough? INTJ's think more, "how does this relate to me?", INTP's think more, "how are the dynamics of this system operating?"


-I'm not too concerned about getting into debates with people - I don't like conflict much, but if the topic's interesting, I don't mind.[/QUOTE]


Hm. I'm not sure what to make of this, contextually. Judging by your last sentence, I presume as long as the topic strikes your fancy you are willing to travel into realms of elevated discussion. I think this is a drive of Ti preference.


Yeah, I only enjoy talking to a couple of people. The rest of the time I'm nodding and smiling without really hearing what they're saying - especially people in class. I can end up getting irritated when people talk to me for no good reason (like a random guy in the street telling me to smile).


This is the line I said I would again reference. I don't think INTJ's allow things like this to get to them on a level of emotional expression. It seems Ne-ish.

Having your "own" logic sounds like Ti to my understanding. I have my "own" systems that I can understand, it isn't as if I live my life never being able to find things.

I believe this is more indicative of Ne use over Se use.

 

[Ism]

I can't say about your MBTI, though I'd like to chip in and say (what you seem to have already concluded) that you seem like a 9w1.

 

[highlander]

Ti to me in a workplace is.."I am trying to figure this out and continually improve until I reach what works(not sure if "works" is more Se specific, while Ne would need another word) best" while Te in a workplace is "lets talk, discuss, come to an agreement of best practices" Te is about "We" where Ti is about "I", Te can come across as very needy when it comes to this whole "We" thing. Ti will come across as "not a group player" though we are still working for the common cause.

Ok - with regards to your post, here is what I think the difference between the two. Te is objective analysis. Ti is subjective analysis. Ti is more about theoretical systems. it's universal and holistic. It's abstract and gets at the essence of something with an emphasis on getting the thinking right. It's internal analysis. Te is about applied systems. Te is focused on the immediate, concrete, measurable and practical. It involves a drive to get a result. It is unambiguous and fact based.

 

[highlander]

Ti to me in a workplace is.."I am trying to figure this out and continually improve until I reach what works(not sure if "works" is more Se specific, while Ne would need another word) best" while Te in a workplace is "lets talk, discuss, come to an agreement of best practices" Te is about "We" where Ti is about "I", Te can come across as very needy when it comes to this whole "We" thing. Ti will come across as "not a group player" though we are still working for the common cause.

Ok - with regards to your post, here is what I think the difference between the two. Te is objective analysis. Ti is subjective analysis. Ti is more about theoretical systems. it's universal and holistic. It's abstract and gets at the essence of something with an emphasis on getting the thinking right. It's internal analysis. Te is about applied systems. Te is focused on the immediate, concrete, measurable and practical. It involves a drive to get a result. It is unambiguous and fact based.

 

[Poki]

Ok - with regards to your post, here is what I think the difference between the two. Te is objective analysis. Ti is subjective analysis. Ti is more about theoretical systems. it's universal and holistic. It's abstract and gets at the essence of something with an emphasis on getting the thinking right. It's internal analysis. Te is about applied systems. Te is focused on the immediate, concrete, measurable and practical. It involves a drive to get a result. It is unambiguous and fact based.

Yes, practical is where me and my INTJ dad part ways. I dont care about practical very much, nor do I care about immediate. Ti involves a drive to get results as well, it is just more thorough because it is patient and has the ability to look outside of practical and actual get the desired results, not just the practical results. I cant tell you how many arguments(just the minor scuffles, not the full out screaming type) my parents get into over practical vs what my mom actually wants. Its funny to watch the dynamics because my mom is so back-and-forth between Fi and Te. Its like one day its awesome and the next day it sucks because its "too resrictive".

 

[tsumatachi_san]

Not conclusive, but indicative. Moar information is rarely worse. Your interest in language, for example, can be interpreted as a preference of Ti - to be able to classify properly the happenings you come across. Ti/Ne users in dom/aux positions have been labeled as 'expert classifiers' by people smarter than I regarding MBTI. They are true masters of differentiating factors, and language is a necessity for thought conducive to this drive.
I've read in two different sources (I've lost them at the moment, but I'll post them if I find them) that both INTPs and INTJs are interested in language and linguistics.

My decision was not based squarely on this factor. Give me several minutes and I will interpret some other indications you have provided in this thread.

[MENTION=8240]tsumatachi_san[/MENTION]

-I'm very driven, almost perfectionistic - if something doesn't live up to my standards, I want to alter it (including myself - for example, if I don't do so well in a test, I'll throw myself into studying for the next one as well as reviewing everything I did wrong).


This can be viewed as Te use, but it's hard to say in this context. I don't believe that just because there is a preference of Ti it means Te is fifth or beyond in the function order. I would need examples of how you operate in a work environment, or to recall a time you were assigned group work in class, perhaps. What is your preferred method of input regarding group tasks?
Conveniently, I'm currently working on two group projects. For a presentation, what I began with was to wait for people to come up with ideas, then ask for them, then get a general consensus of what we wanted to do, then asked who wanted to do which task. If no one offered, I assigned tasks to each person based on what I thought they would be able to contribute (one guy messes around in class all the time, so I gave him the least important tasks). I then immediately did my part of it and sent it for review by the other members, who critiqued it and gave me theirs (apart from that one guy who probably isn't going to turn up to the mock tomorrow, so we'll all have to cover him).
For a teaching session, I began in the same way, but dismissed ideas from my partner who was more focused on the entertainment value. I then never heard much from him, so I gave up asking and started working on it myself and sent most of it to him - he also didn't attend an important class tutorial, so I asked questions then and continued planning without him.
I think I prefer having some level of control over group tasks - I like to know what everyone's doing and if they're doing it properly. I can't just sit back, do my bit and leave it alone. I start getting anxious.

-I tend to be oblivious to my environment to a large extent - I didn't notice the electricity had cut off in my house until my laptop battery sign popped up saying it was discharging, then I realised I was sat in darkness. I also usually make two or three trips back to my room before I leave, due to either forgetting things or being convinced I've forgotten something. This has been commented on by a lot of people (my mum calls it 'being artistic' and I respond with calling it 'being stupid').


I think this is a Ti stereotype. I wonder what it is resultant of, directly. I think developed/preferred Ni use.
Personally, I always assumed a lack of Sensing function. The only Sensor in my family is very aware of the environment and rarely forgets things (ESFJ).

-I'm not great with making conversation with people I don't know - I'm not good at small talk, so I tend to not say anything for quite a while, until I get where I stand with them. I've learnt to nod and smile at what people say in order to encourage them to talk to me. I don't see myself as having many friends (maybe one or two), but lots of people consider me a friend to them (which I can't understand).


A sign of introversion, at the very least. The last bit... I don't know if INTJ's would think that thought. They would likely understand the group dynamics well enough to understand, and I will bring this up again further in my analysis.
Hmm, I don't know. I tend to be confused by people I don't know very well being nice to me because of being bullied throughout school and ignored in college. This year, people have kind of accepted me, which I find very difficult to understand fully and accept myself, as I haven't changed - but I supposed it would be factors like people growing up and being with like-minded people on my course.

-I'm slightly neurotic in the way I feel the need to double- or triple-check things - I never trust myself to pack my back properly, so I check it several times before leaving, and I make sure my work's in order (even if that order is in piles of paper on the floor). I also take very good care of my possessions, unlike a lot of people I know, who will stuff books into their bags, not caring they get bent out of shape.


I think my first point is applicable enough here.
I was told a couple of pages back it was inferior Se. I checked on a site (that, again, I can't currently find, but will post later) and it seems to add up.

-I'm usually very much 'to the point' in writing and conversations - I'm an under-writer for essays (well, used to be, as I've almost worked myself out of doing that) and I've been told I'm good at condensing big points into a couple of words.


That 'expert classifier' thing I was talking about.
Hm, I don't know. I can see what you mean with Ti tried to get a point across perfectly, but I've heard Ti tends to over-write (however, I don't put much faith in typing through how people write, as there are too many factors).

-My hobbies are reading, writing (mostly science-fiction), drawing occasionally, watching films and listening to music, but I'm interested in the link between biology and psychology to an almost obsessive level (when I was twelve or so, I used to spend hours researching mental illnesses - which my mum thought was unhealthy behaviour).


Writing can be indicative of Ne use, particularly of the science-fiction orient. The interest in biology/psychology can be interpreted as a Ti/Fi preference, but I think the emphasis on the physical structure leans more towards Ti.
I think writing indicates only discipline and a good imagination. Science-fiction just seems more naturally T-ish due to both Te and Ti looking at systems of how things work etc. I don't know about Psychology.

-I can be very obsessive about things and used to re-read books and/or listen to one song repeatedly (this may be OCD, as it runs in my family).


I've wondered about this. I've been listening to the same 3 bands near habitually for years, and would rather read 2001: A Space Odyssey again than pick up something new. I have decided the two leading factors are the complexity in my choice of works and the familiarity. I really don't know if that is indicative of anything, and if it is, I do not know what.
I think it might be OCD - people I know who exhibit signs of mild OCD also do this.

-I'm quite good at reading people, so if they act up, I can explain to them why they're acting the way they are (I know it's annoying to do so). I also spend time analyzing people and how they react to certain things.


Analyzing people is a trait shared among INTP's and INTJ's, but I think INTJ's do it more for personal metabolization of events than the INTP drive to externally understand the situation. Does that discern the difference well enough? INTJ's think more, "how does this relate to me?", INTP's think more, "how are the dynamics of this system operating?"
That's the opposite of what I've heard before - Ti is self-orientated as an introverted function, whereas Te is focused externally. When I say I'm good at reading people, what I mean is I'm good at knowing what people want or what they're trying to put across in a conversation - I'm not quite sure how I pick it up, maybe body language coupled with tone or something. But I've used this 'skill' to learn how to deal with people.

-I'm not too concerned about getting into debates with people - I don't like conflict much, but if the topic's interesting, I don't mind.

Hm. I'm not sure what to make of this, contextually. Judging by your last sentence, I presume as long as the topic strikes your fancy you are willing to travel into realms of elevated discussion. I think this is a drive of Ti preference.
More along the lines of 'If I have time and it's interesting', so sort of.

Yeah, I only enjoy talking to a couple of people. The rest of the time I'm nodding and smiling without really hearing what they're saying - especially people in class. I can end up getting irritated when people talk to me for no good reason (like a random guy in the street telling me to smile).


This is the line I said I would again reference. I don't think INTJ's allow things like this to get to them on a level of emotional expression. It seems Ne-ish.
Maybe so. I just know people respond better to smiling than to frowing.




I believe this is more indicative of Ne use over Se use.[/QUOTE]

I can't say about your MBTI, though I'd like to chip in and say (what you seem to have already concluded) that you seem like a 9w1.

Haha yeah, I really relate to 9w1 descriptions.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[WALMART]

Well, good luck in feeling comfort of the type you choose. I'm sure someone could pick isfp from you've provided. 'Til all but a slice of what is.


The only thing I have to add is that the INTP function order has tertiary Si, which puts Se third from the bottom rung of preference order.