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  1. #11
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    1w2 sp/sx


    I'm also a 1w2 for Enneagram, if that's of any help.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.


  2. #12
    Member Arkigos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I guess I won't be able to get around a description of myself, then. Well, I don't make big shows of emotion about most things as I don't consider them important; I live mostly in my own head filled with abstract, erratic thoughts and the day-to-day worries and concerns of people like 'Did you hear what X said?' or 'I can't believe X did that to me!', and events which generally interest people don't interest me much--sport games (unless it's a big football championship like FIFA, where I won't bother to watch any game but my team's), Oscars and so on. However, I do have strong feelings for people close to me and some other passions of mine--passions which are generally concerned with people and feelings (such as the maltreatment of the poor and the general population in my country--not to mention the tyrants who run it--or things like beautiful music and art).
    Unconcerned with real events or their implications is T, and often Ti. Even Te can end up concerned with sports and stuff like that as they like to impose order on the world around them... instead of pure internal, subjective, thinking like us Ti folk.. their analysis is done on things they observe... thus I know that INTJ/ENTJ and even INFP are more likely to follow some analyzable system in the world - like sports as just one example. My ENFP brother is really into fantasy football for some reason. INTPs and ENTPs seem more preoccupied with internalizing those things than socializing about them. If an INTP got into all that it would probably be more to internalize it and understand it... then they might take an informative role on it. Maybe write a difficult to read book about it filled with endless statistics like I know INTPs have done... rather than try to chat about it or comment on it socially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I understand feeling pretty well and how people work--I'll use that to my own advantage sometimes, but I usually don't need to or don't want to. The only thing I have a problem with is death as I don't think my comforting is ever good enough for the situation.
    Your comforting over death isn't good enough? That pre-occupation seems inferior Fe to me. Worried about your ability to relate to social valuations because you ultimately care. Potential inferior Fe phobia here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    When I work with theories that don't revolve around people but cold, hard logic, I generally try to push emotion out of the way as it will be of no help to me in the situation, or might do worse if I'm arguing with somebody about my belief on Y and the person asks for logical consistency in my opinion. If I'm faced with the question 'x-1=2', I can't think of how emotion could help me. If I'm faced with philosophy--something I enjoy--I couldn't possibly give a thought simply based on that it correlates with my feelings on the matter; though I will try to make a logical argument for something I already feel; this is a habit I've made for myself thanks to an INTP friend of mine for whom I had to express all my beliefs logically.
    Internal judgements with T rather than F ... valuation gets punted for analysis. Ti. Ti with an inferior Fe will be "I must understand all through analytical rigor in order to help the people of the world (something that is scary and I can't approach)." Te with inferior Fi is "I must exert order on the world around me to uphold my deeply held values (which I am afraid to approach)." You seem Ti with inferior Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    If this is of any help, I do my best to find the best words for a situation. When I'm trying to say something detailed, I will stop sometimes in the middle of my speech and think for a few seconds, trying to find the best way to express it, and once I have found it, continue on with my speech. I generally do my best to arrange words in their proper order as to leave no confusion, which isn't always the case when one speaks colloquially.
    Concerned with syntactic precision; emphasis on an informative role. Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I also have this little habit of personifying objects. As an example, if I want to use a certain pen for my work, but I accidentally take another one out, I won't keep it on the basis that 'Oh, it's still as good' or put it back because I wanted the other one--I will keep it because I feel rude if I take it and put it back--almost as if I'm hurting it's feelings. I know it's weird, but that's how I work.
    I do that too. I have no idea why. Maybe Ne? Maybe I have no idea.

    So, I am leaning INTP but let me throw it back to you... Ti Ne vs Ni Te:

    Ti Ne is concerned about syntactic correctness and correct analysis. That is what they are, you might say, prideful about. Whether the ideas that informed or derived from this analysis is correct is less important. Therefore, socially INTPs get the most energy by discussing POSSIBILITIES and idealistic what-ifs. They banter them around and don't really marry any of them and only internalize them for the purpose of analysis... and the results of that analysis they will not be prone to discuss until they have come to a solid conclusion, which they will then INFORM people about. If it is dismissed or embarrassed, then the INTP might take umbrage but if the creative concept that inspired the analysis is proven wrong itself.. OH WELL, it was a silly idea anyway, right? Now, what about THIS IDEA!? eh? eh? anyone?

    Ni Te is concerned about determining patterns and connections from data. That is what they are prideful about: generating and seeing through a truly sound conceptual idea from a correctly intuited pattern. Whether the data that informed that idea is correct is less important. Therefore, socially, INTJs get most energy from critiquing and applying logic to the things they hear and see. Often seen as complainers, they energetically question the logic of what is presented to them and try to make sense of it all in an open, often social context. Once they've hashed through, you'll see them stop and suddenly start seeing patterns and connections in the data. They don't really discuss this and it can pull them out of the conversation. Then, when they have something, they will present it in an informative way: "I think that this is the REAL reason...". If the data proves to be unreliable and even the criticism.. oh well, they did the best with what they had... but if the intuition is dismissed or embarrassed, that can hurt them.

    And, INFJ because it's still on the table:

    Ni Fe is concerned about determining patterns and connections from social ethics/morals. That is what is central to their core self-image: generating and seeing through a truly sound conceptual idea from a correctly formed intuited pattern. It's less important that the ethical/moral principle was in and of itself correctly understood. Therefore, socially, the INFJ get the most energy from discussing and considering moral/ethical issues and how those issue affect people. They are therefore often seen as crusaders for social justice, energetically pursuing what they see as social wrongs and rights. As they do so, they will begin to internalize these things and try to intuit patterns in them that others haven't seen. They will seek for profound and deeply insightful considerations in the causes and social concerns they observe. As Ni is their dominant, they will actually spend most of their time doing this rather than crusading. They can be preoccupied with it, in fact. If the cause itself is questioned and needs to be reconsidered.. that should be fine for them for the most part. However, if the profound concepts they have discovered in the meantime as dismissed or embarrassed, they can be very hurt.

    If you want to consider INFJ vs INTJ directly... think that the INTJ socially analyzes based on internal valuation (which they are less inclined to approach directly).. whereas an INFJ socially valuates based on an internal analysis (which they are less inclined to approach directly).

    arkigos = {
    mbti_type: INTP,
    cog_funcs: INTP.get_cog_funcs(),
    political_slogan: 'The INTP .... who cares!',
    influences: ['Socrates', 'Jesus', 'Descartes', 'John Stuart Mill', 'Kurt Cobain'],
    interests: ['History', 'Programming', 'Philosophy', 'Typing', 'Advocacy of the Devil'],
    alignment: neutral_good,

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