MBTI Introverted functions.

[jixmixfix]

According to this article http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/9813-mbti-functions-explained.htm TI and FI are both considered to be "right brain" functions, while "Si and Ni" are both considered to be "left brain". Now how is it logically possible for a "thinking" function to be "right brain" when it involves logic, principles, critical thinking etc and "sensing" function to be considered "left brain". There is nothing particularly "logical" about sensing thus it gets a "left brain" label. How does it make sense for a sensing function such as Si to be one that adheres to "past traditions" and "consistency". When someone thinks about "sensing" they think about someone being a sensation seeker, someone who is easily affected by their environment and someone who enjoys aesthetics. Introverted intuition is another function that should not have a "left brain" label attached to it. How is possible for someone who is attracted to the symbolic, mysterious and underlying principles to be someone with a "left brain" label. There is nothing particularly "logical" or "orderly" about this either. The symbolic and mysterious have many perspectives attached to it as there is alot of uncertainty involved in trusting the "unknown". A left brain function user would not want anything to do with that as they would want to choose certainty over the unknown.

 

[jixmixfix]

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/9813-mbti-functions-explained.html

 

[Eric B]

These are different versions of brain-hemisphere theory, (for one thing, the "Thinking" function is not contiguous with general "thinking"!) and the functions, according that this particular version of the theory, are connected with a different [vertical] level of the brain. In other words, the brain is 3D, so it isn't just left, right, front back, you can have left/right on the surface or deeper in.

 

[jixmixfix]

These are different versions of brain-hemisphere theory, (for one thing, the "Thinking" function is not contiguous with general "thinking"!) and the functions, according that this particular version of the theory, are connected with a different [vertical] level of the brain. In other words, the brain is 3D, so it isn't just left, right, front back, you can have left/right on the surface or deeper in.

My point is that Ti is associated with "right brain" creative thinking when it's suppose to be "left brain" logical. Si is associated with "left brain" logical when it's suppose to be "right brain" creative.

 

[Eric B]

You're thinking about a different brain theory, and different definition of "thinking". (And it's obviously not the MBTI concept, because there is no "Creative", except perhaps as apart of iNtuition). I'll have to look for where I gave more details of the difference.

 

[jixmixfix]

You're thinking about a different brain theory, and different definition of "thinking". (And it's obviously not the MBTI concept, because there is no "Creative", except perhaps as apart of iNtuition). I'll have to look for where I gave more details of the difference.

The SPs are all right brain temperaments and known to be creative while the SJS are all left brain known to be logical. This is why the diagram shows Si, and Ni as primary "left brain" and vice versa. Scientifically the right part of the brain is known to be the creative and left part is known to be the logical.

 

[Eric B]

Is this the Neidnagle theory you're using? SP is defined by Se, and SJ by Si. Se is right brained in the theory, and Si is left brained. It goes by J/P, which is JePi and PeJi. Se will work with Ti, so it is right brained. Si works with Te, so that is left brain. You can think of Te as a more “pure” form of “thinking”, thus left brain, while Ti is thinking “tempered” by being turned inward.

Still, you're saying SJ is “logical”, but not all SJ's are T's, so the definition of “logic” that applies to SJ must be different from the typological concept of a “Thinking” preference over “Feeling”.

 

[jixmixfix]

Is this the Neidnagle theory you're using? SP is defined by Se, and SJ by Si. Se is right brained in the theory, and Si is left brained. It goes by J/P, which is JePi and PeJi. Se will work with Ti, so it is right brained. Si works with Te, so that is left brain. You can think of Te as a more “pure” form of “thinking”, thus left brain, while Ti is thinking “tempered” by being turned inward.

Still, you're saying SJ is “logical”, but not all SJ's are T's, so the definition of “logic” that applies to SJ must be different from the typological concept of a “Thinking” preference over “Feeling”.

I made a mistake by calling it logical I mean rigid and structured (rational) which makes more sense to be associated with a primary "T" or "F" type Ti, or Fi or Te, and Fe. My point is that primary sensing and intuiting makes no sense as a left brain function because they are primarily defined as right brain temperaments and activities (irrational). The socionics definitions make more sense and are more clear cut because of this it defines Si as a "right brain" sensing function and Ni as a "right brain" intuiting function which is what I think it is in essence.
http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

 

[INTP]

lenore thompsons book 'personality type: an owner's manual' says the same thing about function/brain hemispheres(except it adds front/back to them, basically putting introverted functions to back and extraverted to front). personally i think this doesent make any sense. dario nardis work shows that Ti is in fact involved with right brain, but also involved with left and Fi is right. lenore says:

One of the first things apparent about left- and right-brain characteristics is how closely they correspond to the traits associated with J and P psychological types.

underlined part is mistake, i mean seriously looking at traits associated to type when looking at brain/type relationship..

and these traits listed are:

Left side of the brain (J) (TeFeSiNi) - Right side of the brain (P) (NeSeTiFi)

idea oriented - event oriented
general and abstract - concrete and specific
uses words and numbers - uses patterns and pictures
seeks exact conclusion - content with approximate, evolving solutions
reductive and analytic - synthesizing and insightful
symbolic - imaginal
temporal - unaware of limits
proceeds one step at a time - perceives all at once
little appreciation of tone - evaluates intonation
specializes in language skills - specializes in musical and artistic skills
controls speech - controls spatially related activities

personally i dont see the correspondence with these traits and J/P. for example INTP i would see idea oriented, uses words and numbers and also patterns, seeking exact conclusion etc. and you can probably see how other types are not fitting to those traits very well either.

in short; someone read a crappy book and copied it to internets.

i should also add that introverts have higher activity on frontal areas, which is pretty common knowledge on neural correlations to introversion, which is the opposite of what lenore says in her book.

 

[Eric B]

Again, what I found is that what appear to be conflicting hemispheres actually involve different levels of the brain. It's three dimensional after all, and left/right; front/back are only two dimensions, but there's upper and lower, and different things could be located l/r/b/f further down, and also, don't forget that the Lenore/Niednagel theory is dealing with functions, not properties like "introversion" in general which are distinct from functions.
One theory is dealing with "activity" in the neocortex, and the other is dealing with neural connections between the cortex and limbic system.

 

[INTP]

Again, what I found is that what appear to be conflicting hemispheres actually involve different levels of the brain. It's three dimensional after all, and left/right; front/back are only two dimensions, but there's upper and lower, and different things could be located l/r/b/f further down, and also, don't forget that the Lenore/Niednagel theory is dealing with functions, not properties like "introversion" in general which are distinct from functions.
One theory is dealing with "activity" in the neocortex, and the other is dealing with neural connections between the cortex and limbic system.

major neural connections in brains:

it doesent make any real difference whether you look at cortex or connections between limbic system and cortex. if you see Ti in front when you look at the surface, you dont see it in the back, but not front, no matter how deep you look. if you dig deeper, you just get to regions involved with different things than Ti.

my point with introversion being in the front was that if you are an introvert, you have dominant introverted function, nardis work showed that dominant functions are easily triggered(show activity to small amount of stimuli), taking this into account, logical conclusion = introverted functions(or at least most of them) should be in the front areas and if you look at where nardi placed Ti and Fi, they are in front. if you look what areas of the brains are involved in stuff similar(google brodmann area and see what areas share similarities with functions) to Ti and Fi, they are in the frontal cortex. temporal lobe(hearing), occipital lobe(seeing), somatosensory cortex(touch feel) are all in the back(somatosensory almost middle, but still back, since front and back are divided by central sulcus). temporal lobe is also involved with social feedback, which is naturally a big part of Fe(but Fe is also involved with left prefrontal cortex according to nardi, because front is involved with decision making, explaining etc).

also the processing of cortex happens mainly in the surface(gray matter), not in deeper levels of cortex(thalamus etc are also gray matter, since they process stuff), there are pretty much just myelinated axons(white matter) connecting different neurons. -> neocortex is where the functions are being produced, deeper parts of cortex are just fibers and deeper parts of the brains, like limbic system is where activity from cortex is being descended and where consciousness etc are formed. basically neocortex calculates and sends calculations to deeper parts, which also "ask" for certain answers, which the neocortex calculates. for example visual cortex calculates an image based on actiopotentials sent by your eyes and sends the calculations to limbic system. if the info gets processed normally in visual cortex, but doesent reach limbic system, it doesent come to your consciousness.

when it comes to her dealing with functions, i know and thats why i facepalmed since she is dealing with functions, but is looking at some stereotypical traits associated with J and P types and draws conclusions of where functions are, from that. on top of that, those traits she lists arent even that well connected..