Maybe for the last time? My type?

[Burger King]

I've been staring at wall of text for a while now and am confused as hell lol. There's too many possibilities that keeps branching out for me based on what you wrote. At the moment I'm thinking either ISFJ or INFJ, eliminating my initial Ne guess. You seem to lack spontaneity (Ne/Se) that I associate with the FP/TP types and you seem more deliberate and methodical. There's also the whole analysis paralysis of the INFJ types (Ni+Ti loop).

Anyways, between ISFJ and INFJ, I'm leaning towards INFJ more. There's just too much of a penchant to attack angles, shake perspectives, and possibilities that I see in your post, in which I attribute to an iNtuition preference. Overall you strike me as subjective iNtuitive over objective iNtuitive. Googling Ne vs. Ni generated this result http://personalitycafe.com/articles/84275-cognitive-function-ne-vs-ni.html. There are also information you posted like these, that makes me think NFJ:

I often come to decisions too quickly and miss options which later present themselves.

While I can be logical and appreciate the approach, I often sideline it in favour of more emotional oriented goals and choices.

When working I put a lot of effort in to do my part and get everything finished, sometimes I take on too much.

I seem to conceive ideas best when im walking alone, simply sitting or talking to others does not always help for clarity.

Taking in more than you can handle and coming to conclusions too quickly could be interpreted as someone who overestimates their insights/abilities (*cough* Ni types *cough*). You're also pretty articulate in videos you posted. In contrast, an FP type, like myself, who uses Ne, has trouble presenting myself without looking sloppy (I have difficulty articulating myself in person vs. writing). It has to do with the nature of Ne/Se being all over the place.

Oh well, this is all I got. I'm also ignoring some of the your posts in this forum that sounds like blatant Fi rants haha. I'm just gonna convince myself that you're bitter/disillusioned with society/people (antisocial Fe bent) and how it doesn't match up to your vision (Ni), which creates hyper criticism (Ni+Ti).

 

[RaptorWizard]

I find it wiser to type by building from behavior to functions rather than vice versa as your behavior should match your functions and although you could discover your behavior via functions the functions in my experience are much more confusing and difficult to read than just the 4 letter MBTI preferences so if you test INFJ on an MBTI test that must be your type and your function set.

 

[Burger King]

I find it wiser to type by building from behavior to functions rather than vice versa as your behavior should match your functions and although you could discover your behavior via functions the functions in my experience are much more confusing and difficult to read than just the 4 letter MBTI preferences so if you test INFJ on an MBTI test that must be your type and your function set.

How successful were you when using the method that you described?

 

[RaptorWizard]

How successful were you when using the method that you described?

I was a lot more successful than when applying functions since I have been typed anything from ENTP to ISTP to INTJ based on the functions experts though the real truth is in the middle of the 3, INTP. Whenever people bring functions into play it usually creates very confused and contradictory conversations.

 

[Cellmold]

Taking in more than you can handle and coming to conclusions too quickly could be interpreted as someone who overestimates their insights/abilities (*cough* Ni types *cough*). You're also pretty articulate in videos you posted. In contrast, an FP type, like myself, who uses Ne, has trouble presenting myself without looking sloppy (I have difficulty articulating myself in person vs. writing). It has to do with the nature of Ne/Se being all over the place.

Oh well, this is all I got. I'm also ignoring some of the your posts in this forum that sounds like blatant Fi rants haha. I'm just gonna convince myself that you're bitter/disillusioned with society/people (antisocial Fe bent) and how it doesn't match up to your vision (Ni), which creates hyper criticism (Ni+Ti).

Thanks for the post.

In regards to the first bolded paragraph; I actually used to underestimate myself a lot. My motive for taking on too much has less to do with overestimated capabilities than it does with an obligation to help out and not appear like a lazy slacker. But I soon found out that the reward for working well and doing lots of work....is more work. So ive stopped doing that as much.

As for articulate.....ive become more articulate as I got older because I made deliberate attempts to do so, usually my ideas and conversations are rambling and fly off at all angles, this used to frustrate and annoy a lot of people who knew me well because I appeared to only fill in part of what was in my head, so what I did say made no sense. So over time I forced myself to be a bit more diciplined and learn how to hold a decent conversation and be more socially adept.

The other two problems lie with the I/E dichotomy and my 'vision' as you said in the second paragraph. As far as I can tell im not aware of any inner vision of society or anything else for that matter. Societies are too bound by environment, and over time, traditions from this difference in environment so expecting a change in them, or a growth of it's members is naivity. There is something to be said for idealogical romanticism such as 'it would be nice if only everyone was nice'. However I think it is better to say 'wouldnt it be nice if people were more intelligent, sensible and thought before they acted?'

As for I/E there has been some difficulty there. Some people take my verbosity in vent as a sign of extraversion, not to mention that the expressive way I appear to act puts people off a suggestion of introversion. Until recently id assumed I was introverted because I had spent the majority of my life conforming to a textbook example of introversion. I did not speak much, I was extremely retiring and even these days social interaction with large numbers of people still tires me after a few hours.

But it could just be im highly sensitive to information and I get overloaded too quickly, because im trying to take in too much at once as an extravert. My quiet nature when I was younger could easily be about shyness and lack of confidence than from introversion.

An interesting example of how people experience this differently with myself is one holiday in Wales with two friends of mine. One was and still is my best friend who had known me since I was around 6-7. I was telling them about MBTI a little and he said: "Well you are definitely an introvert, no doubt about that." The other friend was someone who id only known for around 4-5 years, but she is still a good friend, she said: "Really? I would never have pegged you as an introvert at all, you seem really outgoing."

Since my own insight isn't that good and has no clarity, I looked toward outside information as im doing here, this could be a sign of extraversion as well 'giving power to the object' as Jung might say. Unfortunately the confliction in views is quite hard to decipher.

Do I really come across as hyper-critical? Hmm perhaps you are right, sorry for that I hadn't noticed.

 

[Burger King]

In regards to the first bolded paragraph; I actually used to underestimate myself a lot. My motive for taking on too much has less to do with overestimated capabilities than it does with an obligation to help out and not appear like a lazy slacker. But I soon found out that the reward for working well and doing lots of work....is more work. So ive stopped doing that as much.

As for articulate.....ive become more articulate as I got older because I made deliberate attempts to do so, usually my ideas and conversations are rambling and fly off at all angles, this used to frustrate and annoy a lot of people who knew me well because I appeared to only fill in part of what was in my head, so what I did say made no sense. So over time I forced myself to be a bit more diciplined and learn how to hold a decent conversation and be more socially adept.

Ok, I see now. It seems you've worked quite a bit on self-improvement. I hope you don't mind though. I took the liberty of function labeling some of your posts.

I changed my mind again! Overall I'm seeing more Si and Ne (in what order I don't know) now. Most of what you've written and the way you talked about it suggest Si and Ne preference. As for a dom/aux judging function, you made it clear that you prefer 'feeling' so Fe. By process of elimination, your thinking function is Ti. I can't single out a particular type, but I figured it would be fun to pick apart your post and assign functions to them.

The other two problems lie with the I/E dichotomy and my 'vision' as you said in the second paragraph. As far as I can tell im not aware of any inner vision of society or anything else for that matter. Societies are too bound by environment, and over time, traditions from this difference in environment so expecting a change in them, or a growth of it's members is naivity. There is something to be said for idealogical romanticism such as 'it would be nice if only everyone was nice'. However I think it is better to say 'wouldnt it be nice if people were more intelligent, sensible and thought before they acted?'

(Fe) You view morals and ethics in terms of the group it seems. To put it simply, Fe = collectivism/collective moral; Fi = individualism/individual moral. This could also be a social instinct or e6 related perspective.

But it could just be im highly sensitive to information and I get overloaded too quickly, because im trying to take in too much at once as an extravert. My quiet nature when I was younger could easily be about shyness and lack of confidence than from introversion.

(Fe?) I've heard that Fe types tend to take on the emotion of others and become overburden by it. I don't know how true this is though, or whether it's even exclusive to the Fe types. I don't believe I've felt that way (Fi user).

An interesting example of how people experience this differently with myself is one holiday in Wales with two friends of mine. One was and still is my best friend who had known me since I was around 6-7. I was telling them about MBTI a little and he said: "Well you are definitely an introvert, no doubt about that." The other friend was someone who id only known for around 4-5 years, but she is still a good friend, she said: "Really? I would never have pegged you as an introvert at all, you seem really outgoing."

(Si) Lol you have a tendency to draw upon past experiences. I want to say this is introverted sensation, but that doesn't do the function justice. From my understanding, it does deal with experiences, but it's more vague than that. It's the sensational impressions one gets. I'm having a hard time understanding this in your posts. In other words I have difficulty shrugging off stereotypical definitions of Si.

Since my own insight isn't that good and has no clarity, I looked toward outside information as im doing here, this could be a sign of extraversion as well 'giving power to the object' as Jung might say. Unfortunately the confliction in views is quite hard to decipher.

(Ne) This sounds like extraverted perception, namely extroverted intuition. Extroverted intuition sees the object at hand, possibilities explode from it, and then a judging function is required to reign it in and eliminate excess. Since the function is extraverted, it also requires external validation - “I look toward outside information.” It is an objective form of perception after all, at least according to Jung's definition of objective, which he associates with the external.

Do I really come across as hyper-critical? Hmm perhaps you are right, sorry for that I hadn't noticed.

Nvm what I said earlier regarding that. I read into too much sometimes.

Why ESFJ though? Was it the archetype descriptions? Was it the functions (Fe+Si)? I'm just curious, I have nothing more to add.

 

[RaptorWizard]

You see this is what I was talking about. People who appeal to functions always have to back up their claims with fabricated evidence that is so shaky it can easily change at a moment's notice.

 

[Burger King]

You see this is what I was talking about. People who appeal to functions always have to back up their claims with fabricated evidence that is so shaky it can easily change at a moment's notice.

Typing is a trial and error process regardless of method. Some get it right first try, some take longer, and some never figure it out. There's no objective way to measure the accuracy of anyone's type anyways.

I find it wiser to type by building from behavior to functions rather than vice versa as your behavior should match your functions...

Also, using the method that you proposed, wouldn't it essentially fall into the same trappings, biases, and as you put it "fabricated evidence" as mines? Maybe you should apply your method to AA to demonstrate its effectiveness.

 

[Cellmold]

Why ESFJ though? Was it the archetype descriptions? Was it the functions (Fe+Si)? I'm just curious, I have nothing more to add.

Cheers for the insight.

As for this, well you got it right; that was why I chose that type. I know a lot of people seem to throw hate at supposed ESFJ's, but I put that down more to assumption based around collective misconceptions and archetypes of what an ESFJ is supposed to be.

But mainly it was the functions.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Typing is a trial and error process regardless of method. Some get it right first try, some take longer, and some never figure it out. There's no objective way to measure the accuracy of anyone's type anyways.



Also, using the method that you proposed, wouldn't it essentially fall into the same trappings, biases, and as you put it "fabricated evidence" as mines? Maybe you should apply your method to AA to demonstrate its effectiveness.

Good points and sorry if I offended you as typing like you said must take multiple hypotheses and approached from many alternative viewpoints and my method is not really a method at all, it's just looking for whether someone is E Vs. I and so on for each letter.

 

[Arkigos]

Your initial post - the bullet list. Was point for point, essentially without exception, exactly like my wife. Ha! She is quite determinately an ENFP.

I've noticed you talk of extroversion and introversion in absolute terms. The fact is that we are all introverts and all extroverts. Take me for example... many people see me as an extrovert and some people have even laughed when I have claimed to be an INTP. That is because there is no 'introvert' or 'extrovert', there are just functions. My first two are Ti Ne - I spend most of my time thinking to myself, analyzing and considering... however, when I am in a group of Ne people, I won't shut up. People who aren't Ne eventually leave the room or fall asleep and we keep right on jabbering. I am completely energized by it. Does that make me an Extrovert? Nay! If you asked me if I'd rather be in that room Ne jabbering til 4 am or be at home programming some system? No question I'd say the latter. I also invariably spend much more time doing the latter. I am not an I or an E .. rather, I am a Ti Ne Si Fe - put me in an Se party and watch the clam shut!

My recommendation is to cut out the crap and determine your functions. Are you Ne or Ni, Fe or Fi... etc. It seems pretty clear to me you are Ne - I suspect that if you were in the room with us you'd be buying and selling ideas just like the rest of us and wouldn't want to go home. I'd guess Fi as well, but that's another story (so, INFP or ENFP in my tentative estimation).

 

[Cellmold]

Your initial post - the bullet list. Was point for point, essentially without exception, exactly like my wife. Ha! She is quite determinately an ENFP.

I've noticed you talk of extroversion and introversion in absolute terms. The fact is that we are all introverts and all extroverts. Take me for example... many people see me as an extrovert and some people have even laughed when I have claimed to be an INTP. That is because there is no 'introvert' or 'extrovert', there are just functions. My first two are Ti Ne - I spend most of my time thinking to myself, analyzing and considering... however, when I am in a group of Ne people, I won't shut up. People who aren't Ne eventually leave the room or fall asleep and we keep right on jabbering. I am completely energized by it. Does that make me an Extrovert? Nay! If you asked me if I'd rather be in that room Ne jabbering til 4 am or be at home programming some system? No question I'd say the latter. I also invariably spend much more time doing the latter. I am not an I or an E .. rather, I am a Ti Ne Si Fe - put me in an Se party and watch the clam shut!

My recommendation is to cut out the crap and determine your functions. Are you Ne or Ni, Fe or Fi... etc. It seems pretty clear to me you are Ne - I suspect that if you were in the room with us you'd be buying and selling ideas just like the rest of us and wouldn't want to go home. I'd guess Fi as well, but that's another story (so, INFP or ENFP in my tentative estimation).

Thanks for the input. If im honest it is through functional understanding that I tried to grasp my type. But unfortunately my uncertainty meant I was never sure if what I knew was accurate, then I realised that it is hard to say what is truely accurate in a theory where the only objective standard is that of group agreement.

Makes it a tad hard at times, although it could just be im over complicating the entire system. Interesting that you spotted Fi though, so many seem convinced of Fe for me.

I dont really want to bother you with this...but would you mind elabourating on the Fi side of things and what jumped out at you?

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

I can't believe that this thread has over 400 views yet only 3 people voted. This is madness!

That's because I didn't understand the question!

:hi:

Oh Snap!

[MENTION=15392]AffirmitiveAnxiety[/MENTION]'s type...

 

[Arkigos]

Thanks for the input. If im honest it is through functional understanding that I tried to grasp my type. But unfortunately my uncertainty meant I was never sure if what I knew was accurate, then I realised that it is hard to say what is truely accurate in a theory where the only objective standard is that of group agreement.

Makes it a tad hard at times, although it could just be im over complicating the entire system. Interesting that you spotted Fi though, so many seem convinced of Fe for me.

I dont really want to bother you with this...but would you mind elabourating on the Fi side of things and what jumped out at you?

I read it all again, read many of your replies, watched the videos, etc... and I am taking a huge step back from the ENFP suggestion.

If were to toss something out now it would be ISFP. I am still of the same opinion on Fi. The two hardest to type people I have ever known.. and both for the same reason as you are hard to type... were ESFP and ISFP 20-somethings - you being quite similar to the latter. It was essentially impossible to nail them down because they were all over the place.

The question to me is what do you ruminate over and what do you like the share?

If an ISFP, then you'd share your deconstructionist observations of the world (Se) and your observed analysis of how things fit (Te). Having T as in inferior function and having it be 'e' does not make for absolutism in facts and making hard decisions about reality is not going to be your strong point.

What you will make hard, well-considered decisions about is what you are feeling and also your inspired interpretation of things. This further illustrates an a very interpretive mind. Basing your core on feeling and intuition.

When I saw your videos the first thing I thought of what Paul McCartney. He is my ISFP rule of thumb. So, I watched your videos and old videos of him in the 60's and it seemed to match really well. He was an observant deconstructionist with heart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtnXnWpC9GE

Listen to the guy.. he is all over the place. Imagine trying to type him! He'd take you on a wild goose chase you'd never come back from. "Okay Paul, that's great... okay, where were we?" I got a very similar feeling from your videos.

 

[Cellmold]

I read it all again, read many of your replies, watched the videos, etc... and I am taking a huge step back from the ENFP suggestion.

If were to toss something out now it would be ISFP. I am still of the same opinion on Fi. The two hardest to type people I have ever known.. and both for the same reason as you are hard to type... were ESFP and ISFP 20-somethings - you being quite similar to the latter. It was essentially impossible to nail them down because they were all over the place.

The question to me is what do you ruminate over and what do you like the share?

If an ISFP, then you'd share your deconstructionist observations of the world (Se) and your observed analysis of how things fit (Te). Having T as in inferior function and having it be 'e' does not make for absolutism in facts and making hard decisions about reality is not going to be your strong point.

What you will make hard, well-considered decisions about is what you are feeling and also your inspired interpretation of things. This further illustrates an a very interpretive mind. Basing your core on feeling and intuition.

When I saw your videos the first thing I thought of what Paul McCartney. He is my ISFP rule of thumb. So, I watched your videos and old videos of him in the 60's and it seemed to match really well. He was an observant deconstructionist with heart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtnXnWpC9GE

Listen to the guy.. he is all over the place. Imagine trying to type him! He'd take you on a wild goose chase you'd never come back from. "Okay Paul, that's great... okay, where were we?" I got a very similar feeling from your videos.

Interesting points. So ISFP, that's a type that had only gone by briefly in both my own and others considerations, a while back I did consider it and I dont know about the validity of function loops, but it could explain why some saw Ni where I didn't, if it was in a tertiary position.

Hmm this is....going to take some digesting, so many different angles.

[MENTION=16710]Arkigos[/MENTION]

I think to answer your question properly I would have to say I ruminate over a certain type of understanding that is both true and untrue, I know that sounds like pretentious gibberish, (and perhaps it is from some angles), but I cant help it, I always seem to look at something and try to extrapolate some kind of internal context or meaning from it.

However I rarely share this with anyone because any explanation of such always comes across as air-headed to my mind and that of others, so like a coward I subordinate these perceptions to others judgements....or rather potential judgements. This has become less of a problem for me as ive become older and ive found lots of people who I can safely open up to about such things.

This brings me to another rumination, possibly enneagram related but im not sure, essentially im also somewhat obsessed about security, not necessarily physical, but I want certainty within myself and within my environment in the form of those I can love and be loved by. A reliable community I suppose.

The biggest rumination is also the last....this is the core of myself I would say, that is: my constant cross comparison with others which borders onto the realm of a strange contradiction where I loathe such comparison of myself and wish to be free of the judgements of others where I can stop being so self-conscious and more relieved. This is further exacerbated by the knowledge that it is mainly my fault for inflicting it upon myself.

On top of this or perhaps hiding inside it is a secret search for a purpose. Or perhaps a place in my life.

 

[Arkigos]

Interesting points. So ISFP, that's a type that had only gone by briefly in both my own and others considerations, a while back I did consider it and I dont know about the validity of function loops, but it could explain why some saw Ni where I didn't, if it was in a tertiary position.

Hmm this is....going to take some digesting, so many different angles.

[MENTION=16710]Arkigos[/MENTION]

I think to answer your question properly I would have to say I ruminate over a certain type of understanding that is both true and untrue, I know that sounds like pretentious gibberish, (and perhaps it is from some angles), but I cant help it, I always seem to look at something and try to extrapolate some kind of internal context or meaning from it.

However I rarely share this with anyone because any explanation of such always comes across as air-headed to my mind and that of others, so like a coward I subordinate these perceptions to others judgements....or rather potential judgements. This has become less of a problem for me as ive become older and ive found lots of people who I can safely open up to about such things.

This brings me to another rumination, possibly enneagram related but im not sure, essentially im also somewhat obsessed about security, not necessarily physical, but I want certainty within myself and within my environment in the form of those I can love and be loved by. A reliable community I suppose.

The biggest rumination is also the last....this is the core of myself I would say, that is: my constant cross comparison with others which borders onto the realm of a strange contradiction where I loathe such comparison of myself and wish to be free of the judgements of others where I can stop being so self-conscious and more relieved. This is further exacerbated by the knowledge that it is mainly my fault for inflicting it upon myself.

On top of this or perhaps hiding inside it is a secret search for a purpose. Or perhaps a place in my life.

My wife is the same way... her interpretations of things are so outlandishly interpretive that it's nonsensical. She has been met with such awkwardness and dismissive reactions that she is basically beaten into submission and keeps it to herself. She is a walking, expressive, tangent. I keep telling her that you can't be the first one to a new world unless you are the one in outer space but that is little comfort.

Your desire for security that you don't provide, along with your very random ideas hints heavily at P in my estimation. Deconstructionist, essentially.

If you had no fears and no limitations whatsoever.. if you could wish yourself into a perfect scenario (not dealing with finding love) what would it be? My wife would say: 'championing a cause.... strike that, 5 causes and sitting in a tree writing about the tree. Alternating those two things. Changing the world and sitting in a tree." My brother, also an ENFP would say something more manly and subdued, but similar... my ISFP friend would say something like living with friends in a free but secure environment with people he loved having fun and doing cool project stuff and having adventures.

What about you?

 

[Cellmold]

If you had no fears and no limitations whatsoever.. if you could wish yourself into a perfect scenario (not dealing with finding love) what would it be? My wife would say: 'championing a cause.... strike that, 5 causes and sitting in a tree writing about the tree. Alternating those two things. Changing the world and sitting in a tree." My brother, also an ENFP would say something more manly and subdued, but similar... my ISFP friend would say something like living with friends in a free but secure environment with people he loved having fun and doing cool project stuff and having adventures.

What about you?

Hmm good question. I suppose it would be similar to your ISFP friend, but im not so sure on the adventure side of it. I suppose going to places and doing long hikes and skiing and just being in mountainous area's would be an enjoyable engagement for me.

But more than that ideally I want to be....everything I am inside my head, I want to be honest and brave about things for once, assertive and wise. I am none of those and it eats at me that this is the case. I also want to perfect my abilities at those activities and hobbies which interest me, I wish to gather skills and interests that elevate me beyond myself, not to be better than anyone else, just better than who I am right now.

Fortunately I am making efforts to change...

I suppose deep down, or rather not that deep down, I desire admiration for something, but I have no idea why, possibly it has been induced within me by outside influences, or it could be from my own internal desires occurring through life experiences. Maybe it's a mix of the two...

Anyhow I thought id answer this now just before I go away for the weekend, rather than leave you hanging for 3 days. Thanks for the questions.