2nd typing attempt (does this title need to be more interesting?)

[Zhuli Lily Askar]

There I separated the novel into chapters, you happy now?

What's going on?

 

[Chocobo Breeder]

I know automatically myself, I'm not sure how mythical it is though, but it seems to describe it's strangeness to most people accurately enough. There are no types that use Fe and Te? ENFJ is Ti? I tend to think the majority is more important regarding many many things but I think deep down certain values matter more in the end. And everybody says I'm an Fi user and not Fe.I mean look I'm already and Fi dom! I use Fe under stress perhaps?

Hmm, do you hold any strong convictions about things? Automatically knowing yourself I don't think would indicate Fi, but maybe. And no there are no types that use Fe and Te or Ti and Fi, they always alternate as Fi-Te or Ti-Fe and can switch dominance. Though I imagine Te and Fi could base values based on groups to what they deem useful. Maybe they know that with proper etiquette you will be accepted by a particular group in society which will improve your chances on getting a job or something along those lines. It may look a lot like Fe, though I think anyone could come to those conclusions which is what makes the cognitive functions so confusing, it's hard to derive where the traits stemmed from. And ENFJ uses little to no Ti, the function order is Fe>Ni>Se>Ti. That would indicate Fe is your strongest function and most likely would be your first developed one. It's possible to use Fe as a shadow function (under stress), or for many other reasons, but it should be natural to use it daily for the ENFJ. The best way is to analyze yourself rather than go off of what others say, though sometimes they can aid in self-analysis when they bring up something you didn't previously think of. Why do they think you are an Fi user?

I tend to analyze why if I have time but even if I don't I still do what I planned. Analyzing tends to be less important overall. I used to think I was possibly Ti but then I went more to believing I'm a Te user, and then someone else convinced me of it on top of that. Yes, I think that's something, I tend to do the task at hand with all thinking (at least that's what I think) then I have a lot of spare time, I enjoy contemplating my values, etc. Strong Fi users seem to eventually sense my Fi (if I even use it) after getting to know me because before only my thinking is visible. Based on what you said I'm really not sure I'm Fi now. I tend to always reassure myself and even logically proved to myself that I'm not thinking something because of social orientations because that would seem that your hiding and that it's not true. Aren't your morals true because society doesn't tempt....? I can't explain this. XD

I think that the action part of thinking sounds Te to me, which confused me a lot in my typing as well. But if you can say you'd rather have results than complete understanding it may bring you closer to Te, depending on the reason why you do it. Unless I'm confusing this with a combination of functions. Haha are you saying you don't think doing things that go along with social customs are true to your own sense of value? That may indicate Fi. Fe users are usually happy to fit into whatever crowd they are looking for.

The fact that functions work for most people tends to be enough for me to pursue this goal in a somewhat serious manner. I think that using examples and observing works but it has to be for a long period of time and you still have to check with the person who are testing because they would know if things are accurate based on your observations. Yes, it seems harder to find someone who is really into MBTI and understands it rather than just shallowly judging someone's type. The person who convinced me of Te and Fi is good with MBTI. Oh and another thing, Fi is something very difficult to voice because your automatically....rejected? And people stare and deem you weird. So I see no reason to express emotions. But I can be emotional.

Yeah I think psychologists have it right in their approach over time. Haha I think a lot of opposing functions would cause rejection, if not other quirks unrelated to functions. My brother thinks the same about his emotions, and he's an INTJ, but I suppose lots of people would come to that conclusion. I prefer to talk out why I am having emotions if they are interfering with my day, so I can address them head on and they can lessen their effect on me. Though I don't know which type I am.

I don't have obsession to the point where I type everyone. Just people I'm I think are interesting in my life. I love reading about these kinds of theories in spare time. Great basic guide to people's personalities. Accurate. I don't know how to explain why I like MBTI so much.
The "revelation" I was speaking about above happens to refer to what you just suggested. I am writing about the last 3 years of my life. That's where I think it happened that my personality became very difficult to determine. Is your personality usually the one you were when you were very young? Or...

I'm the same way, reading neat theories in my spare time, not sure what function that is, I guess it would depend on how you approached it. Most people agree that the cognitive functions develop in chronological order. So if you were an INTJ, you would mainly be focused on Ni as a child, then move on to Te, then Fi, Se (using and recognizing sensual data from the external world) would probably be a source of problems to you. Here is a link with the function order of each type.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm

 

[Chocobo Breeder]

What's going on?

That was just Minutegovt being a nag. Lol just playing

 

[Zhuli Lily Askar]

Hmm, do you hold any strong convictions about things?

I do indeed. But doesn't everyone have strong convictions about something one way or another?

Automatically knowing yourself I don't think would indicate Fi, but maybe.

I automatically know and then I have to control myself because the thoughts start flying at me really fast. It feels like it's true though, like I believe it about myself and I know when it's correct. It always is because it doesn't come when it's wrong for the most part.

Though I imagine Te and Fi could base values based on groups to what they deem useful.

I do that when I'm not under influence. And I regret it later if I was influenced and got out of the influence.

Maybe they know that with proper etiquette you will be accepted by a particular group in society which will improve your chances on getting a job or something along those lines.

I think I think in a similar pattern regarding most things.

It's possible to use Fe as a shadow function (under stress), or for many other reasons, but it should be natural to use it daily for the ENFJ.

When is it that you are under stress enough to start using you shadow process vs you tertiary and inferior functions?

The best way is to analyze yourself rather than go off of what others say, though sometimes they can aid in self-analysis when they bring up something you didn't previously think of.

I think both are very necessary for a topic as abstract as this. It also depends on who is helping you, what feedback you are getting. I agree with this.

Why do they think you are an Fi user?

There are many reasons, I'll have to find everything but will definitely get back to you on it soon.

I think that the action part of thinking sounds Te to me, which confused me a lot in my typing as well. But if you can say you'd rather have results than complete understanding it may bring you closer to Te, depending on the reason why you do it.

I disagree to some extent because Te is applied thinking in a sense rather than linear thinking, I think it's more of a different pattern because it's not necessarily quality of work vs...speed? Although I get your point, I only look for results like a thorough Ti user when I'm very interested in the subject....but I'd use applied as well as linear thinking for that too....

Unless I'm confusing this with a combination of functions.

That's ok, I just did it! lol, and it is confusing indeed.

Haha are you saying you don't think doing things that go along with social customs are true to your own sense of value? That may indicate Fi. Fe users are usually happy to fit into whatever crowd they are looking for.

I think it's wrong but I still do it for specific reasons and I feel uncomfortable while in the group. There was a period where I didn't feel uncomfortable and that made me even more uncomfortable. Deep down, but I avoided it, so I didn't feel much, essentially.

Yeah I think psychologists have it right in their approach over time.

Probably and hopefully.

Haha I think a lot of opposing functions would cause rejection, if not other quirks unrelated to functions.

That's what I've been experiencing as well.

My brother thinks the same about his emotions, and he's an INTJ, but I suppose lots of people would come to that conclusion.

?

I prefer to talk out why I am having emotions if they are interfering with my day, so I can address them head on and they can lessen their effect on me. Though I don't know which type I am.

I think I do that too. But I'm quite in control of emotions. Once I see the reason I'm usually not emotional. Unless it's an area where I'm specifically...tender? lol

I'm the same way, reading neat theories in my spare time, not sure what function that is, I guess it would depend on how you approached it.

Might not be a specific function itself but makes a function more likely. I wouldn't rely on it.

Most people agree that the cognitive functions develop in chronological order. So if you were an INTJ, you would mainly be focused on Ni as a child, then move on to Te, then Fi, Se (using and recognizing sensual data from the external world) would probably be a source of problems to you. Here is a link with the function order of each type.

That's one of my problems. I have amnesia about my childhood!

 

[Chocobo Breeder]

I do indeed. But doesn't everyone have strong convictions about something one way or another?

I automatically know and then I have to control myself because the thoughts start flying at me really fast. It feels like it's true though, like I believe it about myself and I know when it's correct. It always is because it doesn't come when it's wrong for the most part.

To my experience almost everyone does, but personal values and emotions seem prominent in most developed F users. I think that the thinking functions would also cause people to hold values relative to what the functions represent. And maybe what you said is what Fi is about. It would be nice if we could get an Fi user's input on that. I don't think I've ever had an experience like you've described. I use Fi sometimes (or something awfully similar), but I only relate to some parts of it so I'm not much help there.

I do that when I'm not under influence. And I regret it later if I was influenced and got out of the influence.

I think it's wrong but I still do it for specific reasons and I feel uncomfortable while in the group. There was a period where I didn't feel uncomfortable and that made me even more uncomfortable. Deep down, but I avoided it, so I didn't feel much, essentially.

The influence of others? What made you uncomfortable about it? The answer may give a lot of insight into how you approach groups. Also, do you think you are very emotionally expressive? Or do you tend to hide emotions from others? Or do you relate to emotions in a different way?

I think I think in a similar pattern regarding most things.

Now that I think of it, many people may use logical approaches though their motives may be different. Thinking about the reason why you do things would be a great way to understand your personality better. I wonder if people require T functions to use logic? Or if they require their F function to have emotions? Or if logic and emotions are separate from cognitive functions and T/F functions are used for decision making alone. I've heard both so I'm not sure. How do you make decisions? Do you consider what's the most logical choice? How you will feel about things? How others will feel about things? Somewhere in between?

When is it that you are under stress enough to start using you shadow process vs you tertiary and inferior functions?

I've been wondering this myself and haven't found much info. Here's an interesting thread on it that I still have to finish reading.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ces/5177-role-shadow-functions-mbti-type.html

I disagree to some extent because Te is applied thinking in a sense rather than linear thinking, I think it's more of a different pattern because it's not necessarily quality of work vs...speed? Although I get your point, I only look for results like a thorough Ti user when I'm very interested in the subject....but I'd use applied as well as linear thinking for that too....

From what I know Te is about linear thinking. What I meant was that the very general descriptions would be Te is about results, while Ti is about the process and Ti is also considered more abstract much like Fi.

?

Your phrase just reminded me of my brother and his feelings that are pushed under the rug by his Te.

I think I do that too. But I'm quite in control of emotions. Once I see the reason I'm usually not emotional. Unless it's an area where I'm specifically...tender? lol

The control of emotions might indicate Fi, or maybe just a pretty balanced person.

Might not be a specific function itself but makes a function more likely. I wouldn't rely on it.

I think you would probably put your functions to use while doing it though. How do you go about studying? This is probably a good way to see which S or N function you rely on most.

That's one of my problems. I have amnesia about my childhood!

Hahaha well that makes things more difficult!

 

[greenfairy]

There is a fine distinction between Fi and Ti values if there is any at all. Fi seems to have a mystical sort of value system where they know what is right and wrong for themselves without requiring understanding behind it to accept it, but may delve into Te to keep their values in check later. Fe seems to think the best value system is one of social norms and what benefits the majority, and may use Ti to fine-tune and recognize these values afterward.

Ti causes people to analyze and problem solve, and needs to understand the reason behind values before adopting any. When Ti is stronger or more focused on than Fe it may be difficult discern whether the values are personal or derived from group orientations, because they tend to think things out so much that the values take on Fi characteristics rather than basic social norms. When Te is greater than Fi they will focus on sorting, and finding practical use for things and look for outcomes then see how that fits into their personal value system. When Te is much stronger than Fi they may be so focused on external logic that their Fi values seem to be hidden.

Of course, you could find an example that seems to be from any function, but people online seem to think it's just a combination of your most used functions that mimic another function, which may very well be true. You can't take it too seriously, though, because supposedly Jung said he's even switched cognitive functions. But I haven't found the sources, just people around forums and blogs who probably got it from a book. Supposedly there's a video out there too where he says it. I don't know why it's not easily accessible.

I think it's an MBTI conspiracy to believe so strongly in these types lol. On the contrary, the cognitive function order seems to hold true for most people, and it could even be just human instinct to use the other functions at times. But anyway, this site is dedicated to group therapy and judging, so it's tough to find people who really want to understand thoroughly and help others.

Another way to go about typing yourself if the above didn't help you is to describe the stages in your life so far and what functions you seemed to focus on at the time. Many people seem to follow the order of development as well so that would be a start.

Excellent information. Do you have any good links to Cf development and what the types are like in different life stages? I saw one site once, but then couldn't find it or anything like it again.

 

[Chocobo Breeder]

Excellent information. Do you have any good links to Cf development and what the types are like in different life stages? I saw one site once, but then couldn't find it or anything like it again.

This is the only link I've found and it's not a good one lol. http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm

I wonder if the sites only give estimations. I know that I have a lot of young friends in their 20's that show their dominant to tertiary functions often. I think in high school though most people only use their first two well. So extrapolating from the common notion that the first function develops in childhood and the last around midlife unless pushed for another reason, then you could say people probably do well with developing their first three in a span of 3 decades. Then their last whenever they find it useful.

 

[greenfairy]

This is the only link I've found and it's not a good one lol. http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm

I wonder if the sites only give estimations. I know that I have a lot of young friends in their 20's that show their dominant to tertiary functions often. I think in high school though most people only use their first two well. So extrapolating from the common notion that the first function develops in childhood and the last around midlife unless pushed for another reason, then you could say people probably do well with developing their first three in a span of 3 decades. Then their last whenever they find it useful.

Interesting. But psychologists say that we don't develop some kinds of cognition, like abstract moral reasoning, until we are in adolescence or beyond. So it seems like Ti and Fi would look much different being developed in childhood. And what of people who are tritypes or change types, I wonder? (I've been thinking about myself in this regard, and the more I think about it the more it seems like I just don't fit this system neatly any way you look at it...)

 

[Zhuli Lily Askar]

I think that the thinking functions would also cause people to hold values relative to what the functions represent.

What do you mean by this?

The influence of others? What made you uncomfortable about it? The answer may give a lot of insight into how you approach groups. Also, do you think you are very emotionally expressive? Or do you tend to hide emotions from others? Or do you relate to emotions in a different way?

What made uncomfortable is that I didn't agree with some things such as dishonesty that the group kept up and I felt this feeling coming up. I think it was guilt. I didn't let it come up enough for me to feel it though so I didn't feel uncomfortable, and either way I wouldn't have acted even if I had payed attention and allowed myself to think about it. So I did push it away. It made me feel weak in like 2 different way, doing this.

Thinking about the reason why you do things would be a great way to understand your personality better.

That's what I'm doing, it's time consuming. Trying to catch yourself every time you do something.

I wonder if people require T functions to use logic? Or if they require their F function to have emotions?

That's more likely or why would we all have one of each of these functions? And if one of them functions for a part of what we do and they don't represent where our logic and emotions come from, theoretically where would our logic and emotions come from?

Or if logic and emotions are separate from cognitive functions and T/F functions are used for decision making alone. I've heard both so I'm not sure. How do you make decisions?

I don't get this.

Do you consider what's the most logical choice? How you will feel about things? How others will feel about things? Somewhere in between?

I think I'm highly logical about pretty much everything. I often say things that hurt people who you would think of as feelers. But that might be because they are dominant feelers. One of the things that get me is that if you criticize me as an individual, I get extremely bothered if it's not 100% true. If it is, I'm still sensitive and embarrassed. I can't just brush it off.I don't really care about how others are feeling to my knowledge about myself unless I really care about them. But it's easy to make me care about you. You tend to have to strike me as... well there has to be a reason. I don't just like somebody. Anyways, I usually decide whether I'm going to pay attention to them or not really early. Early judgement. I'm usually not wrong. I don't know how much of this is even true though because I think sometimes when I don't think I care about a person, and they get upset at me, I get annoyed that I even have to put up with them being sad. Although this might be Fi because I am getting affected in a sense.

From what I know Te is about linear thinking. What I meant was that the very general descriptions would be Te is about results, while Ti is about the process and Ti is also considered more abstract much like Fi.

I'm typically very concerned about how the process will affect the results. Otherwise I'm usually not concerned about the process unless I happen to be very interested in the subject. I tend to see Ti as more linear but also more abstract I would say.

The control of emotions might indicate Fi, or maybe just a pretty balanced person.
I think you would probably put your functions to use while doing it though. How do you go about studying? This is probably a good way to see which S or N function you rely on most.

I didn't mean control of emotions in that way but I guess it could be a hint at Fi as well. I mean I wouldn't make judgements or think something just because of my emotions..Which I seem to see in Fi dominants and auxiliaries. .... When I study? Let's see it's been a long time since I actually did that. Can you get more specific it might make me come up with things to say.

Hahaha well that makes things more difficult!

I'm doing a recount of my life so hopefully that will yield some answers.

 

[greenfairy]

This is the only link I've found and it's not a good one lol. http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm

I wonder if the sites only give estimations. I know that I have a lot of young friends in their 20's that show their dominant to tertiary functions often. I think in high school though most people only use their first two well. So extrapolating from the common notion that the first function develops in childhood and the last around midlife unless pushed for another reason, then you could say people probably do well with developing their first three in a span of 3 decades. Then their last whenever they find it useful.

Hey I found that link I was searching for! (This is for INTP, but there are others I think.)
http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intp/