What flavor enneagraham cracker am I?

[Stigmata]

Just based on one's general perception of me from my posts, what would you say my Enneagram type is?

 

[Savage Idealist]

Uhhhhhhhh......... 5w6

 

[Rasofy]

^Seconded

 

[Stigmata]

^Seconded

Interesting that I come off as more 5w6, as I've always figured myself to be either a 4w5 or 5w4.

 

[iwakar]

Having spent time with you in person repeatedly... there is no way you don't have some 4 flavor in there. No way.

 

[Rasofy]

Interesting that I come off as more 5w6, as I've always figured myself to be either a 4w5 or 5w4.

Dunno, I think you have a morally loose sense of humor that is more common among 5w6s.
I could buy 5w4, but 4w5 sounds unlikely.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I see 5w4 easily.

 

[Rasofy]

Having spent time with you in person repeatedly... there is no way you don't have some 4 flavor in there. No way.

I see 5w4 easily.

They're probably right.

 

[Stigmata]

The Five with a Four-Wing: "The Iconoclast"

The traits of the Five and those of the Four reinforce each other in many ways.Both Five and Four are withdrawn types: they turn to the inner world of their imagination to defend their egos and to reinforce their sense of self. They both feel that something essential in themselves must be found before they can live their lives completely. Fives lack the confidence to act, and Fours lack a strong, stable sense of identity. Thus, Fives with a Four-wing have difficulty connecting with others and staying grounded. People of this subtype are more emotional and introverted than Fives with a Six-wing, althrough paradoxically, they tend to be more sociable than the other subtype. As a result of their Four component, they are also more interested in the personal and intrapsychic. The two types also have some significant differences in their approach. Fives are cerebral, holding experience at arm's length, while Fours internalize everything to intensify their feelings. Despite these differences--or because of them--these two personality types make one of the richest subtypes, combining possibilities for outstanding artistic as well as intellectual achievement.


In healthy people of this subtype, we find the union of intuition and knowledge, sensitivity and insight, aesthetic appreciation and intellectual endowments. Fives with a Four-wing are likely to be involved in the arts as writers, directors, designers, musicians, composers, choreographers, and so forth. The subtype has been somewhat overlooked in many descriptions of Fives because they do not fit the stereotype of the academic/scientific Five (the Five with a Six-wing). This subtype is more synthetic in its thinking, pulling things together and seeking out new ways of looking at things, Also, Fives with a Four-wing tend to utilize their imaginations more than the analytic, systematic parts of the mind which are more the domain of the other subtype. If they are involved in science, Fives with a Four-wing are drawn to those areas in which there is less emphasis on experimentation and data collection than on intuition and comprehensive vision. This subtype is particularly aware of--and on the lookout for--the beauty in a mathematical formula, for example. For this subtype, beauty is one of the indications of truth, because the order which beauty represents is a confirmation of the objective rightness of an idea. One of the foremost strengths of healthy Fives with a Four-wing lies precisely in their intuition, since intuition helps them uncover areas of knowledge where their conscious thoughts have not yet ventured. The Four-wing adds a desire to find a unique, personal vision to the curiosity and perceptiveness of the Five, and the result is a propensity to "tinker" with familiar forms until they become something almost unrecognizable. In talented Fives with a Four-wing this can lead to startling innovations in their chosen fields of endeavor.

In Average Fives with a Four-wing, the Four-wing adds emotional depth, but causes difficulties in sustaining efforts and in working with others. Fives with a Four-wing are more independent than Fives with a Six-wing and resist having structures and deadlines imposed on them. There can be an off-putting detachment from the environment, both because they are involved in their thoughts and because they are introverted and emotionally self-absorbed. Analytic powers may be used to keep people at arm's length rather than to understand them more deeply. Emotionally delicate, people of this subtype can be moody and hypersensitive to criticism, particularly regarding the value of their work or ideas, since this impinges directly upon self-esteem. Both component types tend to withdraw from people and be reclusive. They can be highly creative and imaginative, envisioning alternate realities in great detail, but can get lost in their own cerebral landscapes. The Four-wing gives a propensity to fantasizing, but with the Five with the Four-wing, the subject matter tends toward the surreal and fantastic rather than the romantic. Individuals of this subtype can become highly impractical, spending most of their time reading, playing intellectual games, or specializing in trivia. There is often an attraction to dark, forbidden subject matter or to any way of self-expression which would disturb or upset others. Some Fives with a Four-wing become fascinated with the macabre and the horrific. As they become more impractical and fearful about their possibilities in life, one typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence--in alcohol, drugs, or sexual escapades.

Unhealthy persons of this subtype may fall prey to debilitating depressions yet be disturbed by aggressive impulses. Envy of others mixes with contempt for them; the desire to isolate the self from the world mixes with regret that it must be so. Intellectual conflicts make their emotional lives seem hopeless, while their emotional conflicts make intellectual work difficult to sustain. Moreover, if this subtype becomes neurotic, it is one of the most alienated of all of the personality types: profoundly hopeless, nihilistic, self-inhibiting, isolated from others, and full of self-hatred. Unhealthy Fives with a Four-wing retreat into a very bleak, minimal existence, attempting to cut off from all needs. The self-rejection and dispair of the Four combines with the cynical nihilism of the Five to create a worldview that is relentlessly negative and terrifying. Social isolation, addiction, and chronic depression are common. Suicide is a real possibility.

Scarily accurate. I think this silences my internal query as to whether I may just be a retarded extrovert.

 

[Nicki]

either delicious or bland

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

5w6, but the only thing I'm basing that on is that your style of humor is a lot like mine, and the last time I took that test, I came out 5w6, although I've gotten 4 before.

I think 5w6 makes more sense for me because I feel like I already know who I am, and I don't really need to find that. I'd rather find a place for me, rather than find myself. My whole motivation for getting in to typology is not really to feel more special, but less special, if that makes sense. I think my 6 wing takes on a more counterphobic character, though, which is why I bitch about hipsters and groupthink all the time.

I also don't think I'm any less emotional than the 5w4s. If I seem that way, I'm not sure if it's related to the 6 thing, but more because I think claiming to be above emotions is a fool's errand. I'd rather map them out and know how they affect me. If somehow being knowledgable about my emotions and emotional matters makes me an INFJ all of a sudden, BFD. I'd rather learn how to tame and train that beast, if possible, rather than letting them rule me, which is definitely what happens when they are ignored.

As they become more impractical and fearful about their possibilities in life, one typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence--in alcohol, drugs, or sexual escapades.

I don't do this. I'm not totally straight edge, but I don't like getting too drunk. I don't actually like drinking more than one or maybe two drinks. I also want more stability and romance. I'm hesitant, although not closed off entirely, about sexual escapades that don't include those two things.

Also, I like having structure imposed sometimes. I think there's almost always some kind of structure or rules in place, but I'd rather people be open about them so I don't have to worry about whether I'm breaking them or not. I find acknowledging the necessity of structure to be more liberating than pretending structure does not exist or is not necessary.

So, yes, if I'm being honest, I do have a lot of w6 security-seeking tendencies.

 

[Stigmata]

I've always seen the 5w6 INTP being much closer to the archetypal definition of an INTP; Much more of a distinct dominance of Ti being present in relation to Ne, and more driven towards academia and the sciences. Also, a lot of the conflicting detachment/emotional expression aspects of the 5w4 wing had made me question whether or not I was an extrovert, which I definitely know I'm not.

 

[Redbone]

I've always seen the 5w6 INTP being much closer to the archetypal definition of an INTP; Much more of a distinct dominance of Ti being present in relation to Ne, and more driven towards academia and the sciences. Also, a lot of the conflicting detachment/emotional expression aspects of the 5w4 wing had made me question whether or not I was an extrovert, which I definitely know I'm not.

Very true. 5w6 seem totally different to me.

I've questioned this about myself. Made me wonder if I was a negative/dark Ne-dom. The conflict between detachment and emotional expression is...I really don't have any words for it.

Oh and I see 5w4 flavor.

 

[Ginkgo]

Generally more creative than the 5w6s I've seen here, with a possible exception of [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION]. Even when you're serious, your actions aren't as outwardly formulaic. The article you mentioned made a point out of the fact that 5w4s tend to come off as more social; I believe this is because they possess an eccentric flair that indicates the knowledge of human nature they've devised by studying themselves and others. There's an internally felt need to exercise their social behaviors that inevitably causes them to take more initiative than the responsive 5w6. I think there's a creative side to you that comes out when the intensity of your emotions has been diffused by your intellect, but when you lose sight of those emotions, bite the bullet and focus on serious issues, the dynamic is reversed and you become temperamental. In that position, I don't think a 5w6 would become as incendiary; they seem to reach their breaking point much later because they don't have as many buttons that can be pushed. Part of the 5w6 scheme seems to also be a double dose of staving off unpleasant emotions from both outside sources and inside sources, so even if they did have just as many buttons to push, the chances of pushing them to the edge are lower.

Do you think any of this applies? I tend to experience uncertainty when interacting with INTPs and 5s; there are a few exceptions but they tend to come off as far more formal and reserved. I feel like I've walked into someone's business conference wearing Chuck Taylor's when I speak with them.

 

[Stigmata]

Generally more creative than the 5w6s I've seen here, with a possible exception of [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION]. Even when you're serious, your actions aren't as outwardly formulaic. The article you mentioned made a point out of the fact that 5w4s tend to come off as more social; I believe this is because they possess an eccentric flair that indicates the knowledge of human nature they've devised by studying themselves and others. There's an internally felt need to exercise their social behaviors that inevitably causes them to take more initiative than the responsive 5w6. I think there's a creative side to you that comes out when the intensity of your emotions has been diffused by your intellect, but when you lose sight of those emotions, bite the bullet and focus on serious issues, the dynamic is reversed and you become temperamental. In that position, I don't think a 5w6 would become as incendiary; they seem to reach their breaking point much later because they don't have as many buttons that can be pushed. Part of the 5w6 scheme seems to also be a double dose of staving off unpleasant emotions from both outside sources and inside sources, so even if they did have just as many buttons to push, the chances of pushing them to the edge are lower.

I guess my first question is whether you're comparing me as a 5w4 to 5w6s, or do you see me as a 5w6?

I think there's a creative side to you that comes out when the intensity of your emotions has been diffused by your intellect, but when you lose sight of those emotions, bite the bullet and focus on serious issues, the dynamic is reversed and you become temperamental.

I found this particularly interesting. Through introspection, I find myself in a paradigm where, in debate, I'm not consciously aware that I'm reacting emotionally because I've conflated my emotions with logic in such a way that I've begun to intellectualize/rationalize my responses (i.e. I don't like to acknowledge how something makes me feel per-say, yet first and foremost I seek to find logical reasons and responses that are in congruence with and validate the rationality of said feelings). Yet at other times I feel completely torn between the two (instances in which I feel one way, yet I reject said feeling because I put greater credence in the logical aspects at odds with my own feelings)

Do you think any of this applies? I tend to experience uncertainty when interacting with INTPs and 5s; there are a few exceptions but they tend to come off as far more formal and reserved. I feel like I've walked into someone's business conference wearing Chuck Taylor's when I speak with them.

Parts of it, yes. As far as formal and reserved, I'm not entirely sure that really resonates with me, or at least I'm not consciously aware of coming off that way. Personally, I absolutely hate formality, yet I think formality comes natural as an element of impersonalization.

 

[violet_crown]

Need....animal...crackers....now...

 

[Ginkgo]

I guess my first question is whether you're comparing me as a 5w4 to 5w6s, or do you see me as a 5w6?

I'm contrasting you with 5w6. I see you as a 5w4.

I found this particularly interesting. Through introspection, I find myself in a paradigm where, in debate, I'm not consciously aware that I'm reacting emotionally because I've conflated my emotions with logic in such a way that I've begun to intellectualize/rationalize my responses (i.e. I don't like to acknowledge how something makes me feel per-say, yet first and foremost I seek to find logical reasons and responses that are in congruence with and validate the rationality of said feelings). Yet at other times I feel completely torn between the two (instances in which I feel one way, yet I reject said feeling because I put greater credence in the logical aspects at odds with my own feelings)

Exactly. In some ways, I see E5 as perhaps even more emotional than E4s, which demands that they differentiate their emotions from everything else and compartmentalize life before they become erratic. Or perhaps, they are just as emotional, but there's a mechanic that ultimately grounds them elsewhere. Obviously they're part of the head triad, but because they're withdrawn, and because inductive reasoning is their primary outlet for understanding things, the boogeyman of irrationality lurks right there, under the bed. The whole function just seems extremely compressed.

Parts of it, yes. As far as formal and reserved, I'm not entirely sure that really resonates with me, or at least I'm not consciously aware of coming off that way. Personally, I absolutely hate formality, yet I think formality comes natural as an element of impersonalization.

You and 93JC both strike me as exceptions to this rule of being excessively formal.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I've always seen the 5w6 INTP being much closer to the archetypal definition of an INTP; Much more of a distinct dominance of Ti being present in relation to Ne, and more driven towards academia and the sciences. Also, a lot of the conflicting detachment/emotional expression aspects of the 5w4 wing had made me question whether or not I was an extrovert, which I definitely know I'm not.

Interesting... the association of 5w6 with a strong use of Ti. I can see a connection between being security-seeking and having neatly ordered thoughts and opinions very easily.

By detachment/emotional expression, do you mean that your detachment allows you to engage in "extroverted" behaviors more?

I also wonder if I had more 5w4 tendencies in my early twenties. At some point, I may have made a shift from 4 priorities to 6 priorities. Some of the "unhappy 5w4" stuff sounds familiar.

As for the formal thing, I can certainly see where that comes from, and why people think that's chilly. And yet, I like expressing myself that way some how. It seems like more work for me to be informal than formal. I do think people mistake the formality for pretentiousness, but honestly, it's just kind of the way I express myself, and I did this even when I was young. I would also say that in person, I tend to soften edges of the formality more, and even will engage in deliberately bizarre behavior. It seems to help people relax when they realize that I don't take myself as seriously as it might seem.

(I'm excluding dating, because that's something else entirely. There's a lot of powerful clumsy childish extraverted feeling mucking things up. )

 

[Stigmata]

* opens up fresh packet *

 

[rav3n]

You're so 5w4, it's painful. Don't even bother questioning it.

And...no bland crackers for you. Moreso, artisan crackers full of fibre and dried fruit but be careful since you can crack a tooth on surprise seeds and nuts.