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Type Me Again

Silveresque

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Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
So, I'm not feeling very INFP lately. I usually test as either INFP or ISFP (and recently ISFJ on the cognitive function test), and I'm pretty sure I'm in some sort of dominant-tertiary loop. I could be an INFP in a Fi-Si loop...but I'm starting to doubt whether I'm really Fi-dom.

Here are the types I'm considering:
INFP (Fi-Si loop)
INTP (Ti-Si loop)
ISFJ (Si-Ti loop)
ISTJ (Si-Fi loop/NFP shadow mode)

Here are my most recent cognitive function test results:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************* (19.4)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) **************************************************** (52.7)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************* (25.4)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************** (35.4)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use

I'm pretty sure that at least at the moment, my Si is stronger than my Fi. But one thing I find odd is that Si users are supposed to have very good memory for details and like tradition. I'm good at memorizing things and have good spatial memory, but in general I'm very forgetful and not much of an information collector. I'm absolutely terrible at remembering names and faces as well as events. My mom (supposedly INFJ) is very good at this. She's always reminding me of things and keeping track of things for everyone. I don't know how she does it...

And I've never really seen the point in tradition, but I suppose it's based on a sense of community, which I don't seem to have. On the other hand, I can be very much a creature of habit, preferring to sit at the same table every time I go to a restaurant, and ordering the same thing I always order. And I pretty much do the same things all the time rather than trying anything new.

Anyways, I found this ISTJ Si-Fi loop description that actually fits me quite well:
When Fi takes too strong a role in cognition and overtakes Te, forming an "SiFi loop", the ISTJ may completely and totally withdraw from virtually all surroundings and circumstances which are not immediately familiar and comforting to his sense of stable interpretive meaning. All forms of external interaction seems to involve uncertainty, which makes them inherently unsafe--avoidant behavior becomes the norm, as the ISTJ with poor Te finds himself both unable to confidently take command of any situation or assert his organizational abilities toward any productive end, and irrationally sensitive to any form of experiential input which does not align with the sense of dependable routine which defines the boundaries of his comfort zone. The SiFi loop ISTJ will continue to narrow his perceptual intake further and further, convinced that anything he doesn't already know completely will only attack and further corrupt or damage his easily impressionable sense of personal ethics and ideals. Inferior Ne--as we will see in the next section--leads to a flood of dangerous and threatening external possibilities which must be contained and avoided at all costs.

I'm falling into a comfortable routine which involves avoiding social interaction and resisting change. But on the other hand, based on what I've read it sounds like the socially withdrawn aspect of Fi-Si and Si-Fi loops typically tends to revolve around social anxiety, which I don't have. My withdrawing comes from not enjoying social situations and not seeing any point.

ISFJ in Si-Ti loop:
When applied negatively in a poorly developed state, Ti may cause counterproductive changes as its insistence on "just knowing" that something is (or is not) inherently fair or reasonable can reinforce all of Si's worst tendencies in terms of subjective self-reference as the ideal solution to any and all problems or disagreements. Convinced beyond all doubt that only he has the true depth of experience to understand the problem in realistic terms, the SiTi loop ISFJ may reject any and all outside opinions regardless of the status or relationship implied by the characteristics of the person offering them. "Listen, my wife doesn't know what's best for our children--I'm the one who's been there looking after them from day one!" Neglecting Fe's vital external input can leave the ISFJ lacking any sort of meaningful outside standard against which to weigh his own subjective evaluations of the overall value of any given idea, practice, or methodology.

Hmmm, this one doesn't really fit me at all. So maybe I'm not ISFJ then...

But I can't seem to find good Fi-Si and Ti-Si loop descriptions, so I can't narrow it down further.

Oh, and by the way, here are the problems I have with ISTJ:
-I'm extremely lazy and unproductive (though I'm usually responsible and dependable)
-I don't like tradition
-I'm never rigid
-I don't really put much effort into building a storehouse of facts and information (most people seem to know a lot more random facts than I do)

Here are the problems I have with INFP:
-I don't seem very abstract/theoretical lately
-I don't have any strong moral convictions
-I often don't notice how I feel about something until later

Oh my gosh, did I just write a whole long post like this without using a single smiley? :shock:
 

Savage Idealist

Permabanned
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Aug 17, 2010
Messages
2,841
MBTI Type
ENFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
ISTJ in a Si-Fi loop does seem possible.

What about you other functions? Are you sure that your Ni or Fe or ect. isn't really higher than Si or Fi?
 

Silveresque

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
ISTJ in a Si-Fi loop does seem possible.

What about you other functions? Are you sure that your Ni or Fe or ect. isn't really higher than Si or Fi?

Yeah, that's the other thing. I've never related to any of the Ni descriptions I've read, but maybe that's just because I don't understand it very well. But based on this description of ISFP in a Fi-Ni loop, I think it's worth looking into. :yes:

When ISFPs apply Ni is a less productive way, typically by neglecting Se development and slipping into an FiNi loop, the result is generally a combination of bitter cynicism toward the intentions of everyone around them, and feelings of hopeless isolation and detachment from the real and concrete experiences by which they discover their sense of meaning and purpose. Burdened with too much Ni too soon, the ISFP may decide to simply "drop out" of life in general--convinced that nothing will ever grant him the sense of personal fulfillment he desires because nothing is truly significant in a global sense, he may resign himself to cynical commentary on the hopelessness of it all. "Why even bother? Nothing is ever going to change. Nothing I do is ever going to make any serious difference to anybody--so what's the point? Why should I even bother? I already know what's going to happen, and it's not anything I want to be a part of--so I quit."

When I read this, I realized it sounded just like something I had recently posted in my blog (when asked why telling a friend about my depression made me feel worse):

It's hard to explain. It just felt pointless and stupid. Anyone opening up about depression would have received a similar response. It was completely predictable, like watching a movie after someone already spoiled the whole plot and ending. I feel like there should be more to it than that, but there isn't. If you say you're sad, people are going to ask why and then express sympathy. When you already know how someone's going to respond, do you really get anything out of actually hearing that response? Do you really need to hear it after you've already heard it in your head?

This is kind of how I've felt in general lately--a lot of meaninglessness when it comes to social interaction. When I'm walking back from class with a friend, I could say what's on my mind, but there wouldn't really be any point. The only thing it could possibly lead to is more pointless conversation, and since I don't even feel like talking anyways, I stay quiet.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
So, I'm not feeling very INFP lately. I usually test as either INFP or ISFP (and recently ISFJ on the cognitive function test), and I'm pretty sure I'm in some sort of dominant-tertiary loop. I could be an INFP in a Fi-Si loop...but I'm starting to doubt whether I'm really Fi-dom.

Here are the types I'm considering:
INFP (Fi-Si loop)
INTP (Ti-Si loop)
ISFJ (Si-Ti loop)
ISTJ (Si-Fi loop/NFP shadow mode)

Here are my most recent cognitive function test results:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************* (19.4)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) **************************************************** (52.7)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************* (25.4)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************** (35.4)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use

I'm pretty sure that at least at the moment, my Si is stronger than my Fi. But one thing I find odd is that Si users are supposed to have very good memory for details and like tradition. I'm good at memorizing things and have good spatial memory, but in general I'm very forgetful and not much of an information collector. I'm absolutely terrible at remembering names and faces as well as events. My mom (supposedly INFJ) is very good at this. She's always reminding me of things and keeping track of things for everyone. I don't know how she does it...

And I've never really seen the point in tradition, but I suppose it's based on a sense of community, which I don't seem to have. On the other hand, I can be very much a creature of habit, preferring to sit at the same table every time I go to a restaurant, and ordering the same thing I always order. And I pretty much do the same things all the time rather than trying anything new.

Anyways, I found this ISTJ Si-Fi loop description that actually fits me quite well:


I'm falling into a comfortable routine which involves avoiding social interaction and resisting change. But on the other hand, based on what I've read it sounds like the socially withdrawn aspect of Fi-Si and Si-Fi loops typically tends to revolve around social anxiety, which I don't have. My withdrawing comes from not enjoying social situations and not seeing any point.

ISFJ in Si-Ti loop:


Hmmm, this one doesn't really fit me at all. So maybe I'm not ISFJ then...

But I can't seem to find good Fi-Si and Ti-Si loop descriptions, so I can't narrow it down further.

Oh, and by the way, here are the problems I have with ISTJ:
-I'm extremely lazy and unproductive (though I'm usually responsible and dependable)
-I don't like tradition
-I'm never rigid
-I don't really put much effort into building a storehouse of facts and information (most people seem to know a lot more random facts than I do)

Here are the problems I have with INFP:
-I don't seem very abstract/theoretical lately
-I don't have any strong moral convictions
-I often don't notice how I feel about something until later

Oh my gosh, did I just write a whole long post like this without using a single smiley? :shock:

Sounds like an Si-Ti loop to me. You sound ISFJ in this post.

Do you have many bodily and dietary sensitivities?
 

Silveresque

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
Sounds like an Si-Ti loop to me. You sound ISFJ in this post.

Do you have many bodily and dietary sensitivities?

You mean like not liking certain foods? I'm generally not a picky eater, but there are some foods I don't like. I'm not really sure what you mean though. :shrug:

Anyways, neglected Fe certainly sounds like it could fit, but if so, it doesn't manifest in me the same way that was described in the quote. I'm very self-doubting and don't claim to know things I clearly know nothing about.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You mean like not liking certain foods? I'm generally not a picky eater, but there are some foods I don't like. I'm not really sure what you mean though. :shrug:

Anyways, neglected Fe certainly sounds like it could fit, but if so, it doesn't manifest in me the same way that was described in the quote. I'm very self-doubting and don't claim to know things I clearly know nothing about.

No. I have a theory about Si doms. They have LOTS of food and body sensitivities. Lots of allergies, etc. Real or imagined.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
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548
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sp/sx
Per our discussion, he seems to lean towards ISTJ, and the "lazy", "tradition" and "rigid" descriptions are generalized stereotypes. I know ISTJ's who do not fit all those things, and it's due to their upbringings usually.
A theory I have us that the SJ "Guardian" actually corresponds to the FIRO "Rebel" (aka Melancholy in Control), and this surfaces when the institutions and other things like that SJ's are supposed to uphold, are really screwed up. They rebel, and seek to create their own. The temperamental need is one of stability; not necessarily existing institutions and memories they were brought up in. Those things still can't be too unfavorable to the ego.

So they might not be all into all that stuff, but will be more open and willing to create their own traditions and memories.

He does still mention the "responsible and dependable", and that is a clue.

As for the "storehouse of facts and information" and "random facts", part of it is, if it is dominant, not recognizing this storehouse, because it is so second nature.
Also, especially in comparison to others, the dominant will be mature, and choose storehouses that are the most important. So I end up appearing to deal in a storehouse of memories and random facts more than many SJ's around me, and they in turn think it's all too trivial. But that's because Si is tertiary for me (and thus "inflates" itself; but it's really a relief function, and not a mature ego preference).
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
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INfj
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451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't have any allergies as far as I'm aware.

It's really more they *think* they have allergies.


It sounds like, by my test, you are not Si dom. :)


You must be something else.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i like the functions and all but i think people can get too confused by it. if you had to type yourself just based on the dichotomies, i vs e, s vs n, etc what would you choose?
 

Silveresque

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
Per our discussion, he seems to lean towards ISTJ, and the "lazy", "tradition" and "rigid" descriptions are generalized stereotypes. I know ISTJ's who do not fit all those things, and it's due to their upbringings usually.
A theory I have us that the SJ "Guardian" actually corresponds to the FIRO "Rebel" (aka Melancholy in Control), and this surfaces when the institutions and other things like that SJ's are supposed to uphold, are really screwed up. They rebel, and seek to create their own. The temperamental need is one of stability; not necessarily existing institutions and memories they were brought up in. Those things still can't be too unfavorable to the ego.

So they might not be all into all that stuff, but will be more open and willing to create their own traditions and memories.

He does still mention the "responsible and dependable", and that is a clue.

As for the "storehouse of facts and information" and "random facts", part of it is, if it is dominant, not recognizing this storehouse, because it is so second nature.
Also, especially in comparison to others, the dominant will be mature, and choose storehouses that are the most important. So I end up appearing to deal in a storehouse of memories and random facts more than many SJ's around me, and they in turn think it's all too trivial. But that's because Si is tertiary for me (and thus "inflates" itself; but it's really a relief function, and not a mature ego preference).

The only example I can think of where I build a storehouse of information is with learning foreign languages. I seem to learn a lot of words subconsciously, without intending to remember them later. Like for example, one day all of a sudden the Japanese word "saifu" popped up into my head. It was not a word I could recall having learned before, and I didn't know where it came from, but somehow I knew it meant "wallet". I looked it up in the dictionary, and that was indeed what it meant. It was just a word I came across once when looking through a book, and I just happened to remember it. And I get a feel for grammatical structures this way as well. I often find myself wording things a certain way because it just sounds right based on experience, even though I'd never officially learned it before. I don't know if this is really Si or not, but it seems like it could be. :shrug:

By the way, I'm actually a girl. :laugh: (It's okay, everyone thinks I'm a guy at first, and it's my fault really for choosing an apparently masculine name. I bet a lot of members still don't know.)

i like the functions and all but i think people can get too confused by it. if you had to type yourself just based on the dichotomies, i vs e, s vs n, etc what would you choose?

IxxP
 

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
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This is kind of how I've felt in general lately--a lot of meaninglessness when it comes to social interaction. When I'm walking back from class with a friend, I could say what's on my mind, but there wouldn't really be any point. The only thing it could possibly lead to is more pointless conversation, and since I don't even feel like talking anyways, I stay quiet.

Could this be Ni at work? "If I say this, she'll say that, been there, done that, there's no point in continuing this pattern...". There's a slight air of omniscience to unhealthy Ni users, I think, which can make them seem/sound paranoid. Just saying. ;)

You know, Marmie Dearest has mentioned quite a few times an ISTJ 9w1 she knew... If you can find her, it could be worth a shot to hear her description. :yes:
 

Silveresque

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Could this be Ni at work? "If I say this, she'll say that, been there, done that, there's no point in continuing this pattern...". There's a slight air of omniscience to unhealthy Ni users, I think, which can make them seem/sound paranoid. Just saying. ;)

You know, Marmie Dearest has mentioned quite a few times an ISTJ 9w1 she knew... If you can find her, it could be worth a shot to hear her description. :yes:

I think it does sound like Ni, but I assure you I'm not paranoid. :D I'm naturally very trusting. I really don't feel omniscient either, more like the opposite. :( Anyways, I need to research Ni.
 

Silveresque

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The way Ni is described, it sounds like magical "aha" moments and gut feelings...This is why I don't understand it. Does Ni not look at external patterns?
 

Silveresque

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Messages
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Ooh, I found something. :D

Introverted Intuition is the attitude of attunement to what cannot be said, by virtue of the structuring that "saying" requires.

For example: At work, we don't dare say our true feelings (or we can only say them if they're positive), because we know that sharing them would bring dire economic consequences. There is no other way, because the structure of the workplace (people working cooperatively to get stuff done that they get paid for) requires that people refrain from saying anything that might put their loyalty in doubt. If an accountant, in his office, says that he loves accounting, you view this as meaningless because, well, what else is he going to say? In fact, he might very well hate accounting. You have to be highly attuned to what's really going on in order to read the true meaning of what people say--which is often the opposite of the literal meaning of their words.

This is definitely something I notice. When people say things, I often realize that they're saying that because they're expected to say it. I notice that much of what I say as well as what others say is dictated by social norms and obligations.

Introverted Intuition is a way of orienting yourself to your environment by consciously attending to the expected interpretations of things. In this manner of orientation, you hold agnostic about whether those interpretations are true. You view them as expected interpretations, nothing more. Your world is a world of expected interpretations defined by others; you navigate through those interpretations and use them without regard to whether they're true, always keeping the interpretations separate in your mind from the actual objects.

I tend to withhold judgement and hold many possible interpretations in my mind without committing to any one interpretation. :yes:

Ni is a way of knowing (or at least thinking you know) that bypasses reason, facts, evidence, the expected or intended interpretations of signs, or anything you can point to, simply giving you an awareness or belief that seems indisputably true to you, period. You can't tell by introspection how you got this idea. There is no thought process. There is only tuning into this form of awareness and just knowing.

For example: You've been interviewing candidates for a job. One of them has all the credentials, and scored the highest on all the company-defined criteria for the job. Another of them was pretty good but not in the same league. You have a sense about the high-scorer, though, that he's bad news, and that the "so-so" one will work out well. You can't point to anything that's let you to this conclusion, you can't justify your belief, but you have this sense just the same. To trust this unjustifiable idea is to orient by introverted intuition.

Hmm...I don't think I relate to this. I don't rely on gut feelings. I think I have them sometimes, but when I do I look for evidence to support it rather than just go with it.

Ni is a function that serves the process of "transformation". Transformation is to be considered on many levels (logical, ethical, personal etc.) In many instances, situations are hard to escape or avoid and Ni allows a person to focus on a specific version of themselves so as to minimise a problem or enhance understanding of it.

Example #1: Those with a habit of not completing their studies, fall into a mindset where they feel justified in not undertaking the workload and are perhaps concerned with pleasing immediate sensations (partying, lounging around etc.) or have personal problems to deal with.

Once the person has realised the consequences of their laziness, an underlying mindset is discovered as the cause. Whilst every function has a unqiue manner in the solution of a problem, Ni engages the individual with their unconscious thoughts and mindset to focus on a particular trait. "How can I avoid this scenario from happening again?" "What talents of mine can I capitalise on to escape this problem?"

Such problems are derived from habit/behaviour rather than by natural alignments and they can be solved if the individual chooses to focus on another "version" of themselves, which always existed but never was accessed. Further supporting the notion that Ni is a search for new angles or perspectives, requiring a solid insight to gauge action.

The common experiences of individuals having to come to their own realisations to truly grasp a problem or change their attitude, has its foundations in the Introverted Intuition function. External data or resources are not enough to create a solution, it requires a transformed way of thinking from the person's past behaviour.

I think I relate to this.
 

Eric B

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The only example I can think of where I build a storehouse of information is with learning foreign languages. I seem to learn a lot of words subconsciously, without intending to remember them later. Like for example, one day all of a sudden the Japanese word "saifu" popped up into my head. It was not a word I could recall having learned before, and I didn't know where it came from, but somehow I knew it meant "wallet". I looked it up in the dictionary, and that was indeed what it meant. It was just a word I came across once when looking through a book, and I just happened to remember it. And I get a feel for grammatical structures this way as well. I often find myself wording things a certain way because it just sounds right based on experience, even though I'd never officially learned it before. I don't know if this is really Si or not, but it seems like it could be. :shrug:
That sounds like it could be good Si.
By the way, I'm actually a girl. :laugh: (It's okay, everyone thinks I'm a guy at first, and it's my fault really for choosing an apparently masculine name. I bet a lot of members still don't know.)
Sorry about that. I wasn't even going particularly by the name; people tend to default to male to me, unless there is some definite sign of femininity (avatar, etc). I assumed Jenocyde was male until I actually met her (And it actually led me to miss the first meetup, as I saw the group from a distance, and did not expect a female).
 

Nicodemus

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When people say things, I often realize that they're saying that because they're expected to say it. I notice that much of what I say as well as what others say is dictated by social norms and obligations.
Congratulations, you are not an idiot.
 
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