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Questionnaire answers inside - Confident that I'm 5w4 but am not sure of my Type

Vizzy

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
Like the title says, I'm confident that I'm a 5w4. Did an Enneagram test yesterday and here are my results:

You are most likely a type 5.
Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 5w4.

Type 5 – 9.7
Type 4 – 7
Type 6 – 6
Type 9 – 5.7
Type 2 – 5.7

Wing 5w4 – 13.2
Wing 5w6 – 12.7
Wing 4w5 – 11.9
Wing 6w5 – 10.9
Wing 4w3 – 9.2
Wing 2w3 – 7.9
Wing 6w7 – 7.4
Wing 2w1 – 7.1
Wing 9w1 – 7.1
Wing 9w8 – 6.6

Looks like the following questionnaire is pretty popular here (and it looked like fun) so I thought it'd be a good idea to try it myself.

1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

Example: “I am nice. The opposite of that would be cruel.”


A. I am curious, inquisitive and eager to learn. The opposite of that would be someone who is braindead or doesn’t appreciate their ability to learn.

B. I am nice and respectful. The opposite of that would be rude.

C. I don’t like the idea of being average, but I am modest. The opposite of that would be someone who boasts their own achievements instead of letting others decide for themselves…and someone who is flamboyant and materialistic.

D. I am open-minded and adventurous at heart. The opposite of that would be an unwillingness to try something new (a cuisine, or activity, etc.) due to unfamiliarity.

E. I’m avoidant and I question my own competence/abilities a lot. The opposite of this would be a confident, carefree and all-round successful person.

2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
Example: “I am nice. The opposite of that would be cruel. I guess I can be cruel because I never tip waiters. Tipping waiters encourages them to stay at these jobs ‘….’”


A. I guess I can be uninterested in learning sometimes when I don’t care about something enough or when I’m lazy. To be honest, it’s relaxing to not be asking questions or thinking all the time.
B. I can be disrespectful to my own family at time because I’m comfortable enough with them to not wear the smiley mask I often don in public…even though I know they deserve the same friendly treatment I gives strangers…and more. It could be good to show this side of me to others as it means I’m being honest with how I feel.

C. I guess I contradict my own modesty when I think of myself as some special human being who doesn’t belong with “everybody else” even when there are many who feel just as lost. Being too modest may also lead a person to become invisible or ‘skimmed over’ for others who know how to show their strengths.

D. I am sometimes unwilling to try something if it goes against an important value/principle or something that makes me feel extremely awkward. This is good because it saves me from discomfort.

E. It would be nice to not hide my feelings due to fear of embarrassment, and to be truly confident about myself and my chances at everything. Despite possible rejections and failure, this attitude would save me a lot of regrets and successes.

3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

The purpose of life is to understand that you’re a small part of this universe. But even so, you should learn as much as you can and remain truly humble. And also, even though you may feel misunderstood or alone, appreciate those who love you.

4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

You have to respect yourself and not give up what you believe in because everyone disagrees. As long as you know, accept and seek to improve who you are, you will go through life peacefully and see it as a big adventure.

7. What do you really want in your truest self?

I want to be so confident, competent and content that I’ll stop comparing myself with people who are younger, smarter, more beautiful, more popular, and more happy.
Though I may deny it and say it’s not important to me, I think I want someone I can truly share everything with. I definitely don’t trust anyone enough, but must admit that going through life without a special someone does get lonely. Funnily enough, I have a very easy time shoving this desire aside.

8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

I have settled for being someone who second-guesses all the time and believes that there is always someone more competent for a job I want, or more compatible with a guy I like. As a result, I am currently very much alone (with no relationship experience) and lacking confidence.

9. What are your defense mechanisms?
Sometimes people don’t realize what their true defense mechanisms are because they are working at 100% efficiency. You may have to really think about this one.
Another way to look at the question:
When you start to feel uncomfortable or anxious about a situation, what do you generally start to do?


If it’s a social or relationship-based situation, I retreat and avoid. Acting nonchalant is a strength of mine. Sometimes I play down the importance of my feelings to the point where I question their validity…and sometimes (only when I’m alone) I let my feelings swell up to crazy rawness.
If it’s something I have some control over (like appealing a fine), I immediately get to work researching and trying to best justify my case. Get it over and done with. (On the other hand, I procrastinate with things that don’t worry me too much).

10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

Balance and understanding your priorities. I’ve noticed that sometimes when my work is going well, something will happen in my family that brings everything back into perspective. There are many dimensions and focuses in life that we should try to be aware of always and not neglect.

11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

I’m child-like, agreeable and flexible to the point where I’d just shrug and say, “Oh well, we took a 1-hour wrong turn but at least that was good exercise!” When I’m with people I’m comfortable-enough with, I readily verbalise my off-the-wall observations and comments, many of which are random and get pauses from others. It’s best when I’m with those who can play off what I think and say and add something.

18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

Head. I trust my head more than my heart. I think I’m in tune with my feelings but sometimes they get very strong and I know I must bring them back to a level I can control and reason with. Some examples are that my heart can make me want to take the next plane to somewhere or to admit how I feel for someone – but I (and with the help of another person, sometimes) must consider the consequences of such rash emotions as they aren’t always practical or reasonable.

19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

Body. I’m trying hard to think of why my body would matter in decision-making. I’m healthy and hardy enough for it not to be an inhibiting factor…at least I hope so.

20. What is your predominant fault?

Hiding myself. There is a side of me that honestly does not care what people think and has no desire to do what is expected/follow the norm. I study what I want and I follow my own interests and I’m proud to define myself with those. Then there’s another side (deep, deep, deep down) that wants to belong, be ‘normal’ and be open to relationships. But apart from being pleasant, friendly and helpful in public, I don’t really try to fit in for the sake of it. I don’t want people to think I’m trying too hard. I’m too comfortable being alone to develop close relationships with others.

At the moment, I prefer to observe everything (relationships, emotional highs, risks) instead of participating in them myself.
I believe that once I let myself out of my shell, everything else (my confidence in my abilities and ability to connect with others) will sort itself out.

24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

I can not be totally open about myself and my feelings to others because I don’t want to be vulnerable or rejected.

I have to keep learning because this provides me with a purpose in life as well as a sense of self. My curiosity is one thing I am truly proud of.

I must be independent. I can not afford to rely on/be dependent on someone who may easily move on to another once they get bored/grow tired of me.

25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

To know that at the end of it, I'll still respect and be proud of myself.

26. What is your own personal mission statement?

Don’t ever be complacent or jaded because there is always so much to learn.

I would like to be someone who is wise, who understands how the world works, knows a bit about everything and is admired for being my own person.

I would like to be involved in activities/something I respect such as history, culture, mystery and creativity.

Well, those are my answers. They don't reveal all of who I am so if you have any questions regarding cognitive functions, please ask them and I'll do my best to help you type me. :bye:
 

Vizzy

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
Thanks for the welcome, Savage! :) I've had a lot of trouble with assigning myself an MBTI so it's a relief to be confident of my enneagram type (and with you agreeing).

To anyone who has the time to read my answers, what Myers-Briggs type/s do you think I am? We can go into cognitive functions later if that's too much too soon.

And thanks for the link to that functions test! I've done it but would like to hear opinions on my answers above before showing my results. ;)
 

Savage Idealist

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
2,841
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Sure thing :) always good to make sure that the newcomers feel welcome.

MBTI wise, I think that you could be INFP or ENFP (although other types are certainly possible).

You're welcome :yes: Go ahead and post the results whenever you feel ready; definitely a good idea to get type feedback first, then reveal the results of a quiz rather than vice versa.
 

Silveresque

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
Wow, Vizzy, you sound EXACTLY like me on every single question! Based on your answers I would say you seem most like an INFP.

And welcome to typology central. I'm new here too :)
 

Vizzy

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
Thanks for the replies, Sav and Rev...and wow, 2 votes for INFP. Welcome to you too, Revlis. ;)

Is there also a possibility that I'm an INTP? I guess I'm one of those who bounce between the two types. I often make decisions based on factors (such as cost) that override how I feel and what I want...and as a result am pretty good at dissuading myself from temptations (I'm great at saving money) or shoving my feelings aside.
I'd be happy to answer questions to help you decide which way I lean.
 

Seymour

Vaguely Precise
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,579
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think enneagram 5w4 seems pretty much on target.

As far as F/T, I'd suggest reading up on Ti and Fi (there are some decent threads on other forums), and also Fi vs Fe and Ti vs Te... just to see if you identify with some of those more than others.

One thing I'd like to hear about is your relationship to your emotions. Are they valuable input to your decision making process, or are they more of a distraction? Are you aware of your emotions in real time, or do you figure out you were angry or upset after the fact? How aware are you of your emotions, and do you experience your emotions as multilayered with many subtle variations or more singly (whatever the intensity)?

How do you feel about and react to "inappropriate" emotions (both your own and in people around you)? How do you feel about social obligations and expectations? How aware are you of group dynamics? How about the emotional state of individuals?

When a friend is suffering, do you tend to offer advice? If so, what kind of advice?

Also, how highly do you rate the importance of intent vs. correctness?
 

Vizzy

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
I really appreciate those questions, Seymour. :)

I’ve done a lot of reading about Fi vs Fe and Ti vs Te and here is what I’ve observed of myself:

Fi vs Fe:
I’m very reserved and divulge incredibly little of myself to others, but I try to maintain a smiley and almost bubbly persona with friends and colleagues. I don’t change who I am on the inside for others or conform for the sake of it but I do make sure that on the outside, I’m pleasant and friendly enough. In emails and text messages, I make an effort not to come across as blunt or rude. I strive for integrity, but being polite and respectful to others is also important in my daily interaction with others.
Despite my attempts to see the difference between these two functions, I still can’t understand how or why they are mutually exclusive…if my understanding of Fi and Fe is correct. Perhaps it’s because I can detach from my social ‘mask’ that I don’t believe I’m betraying myself when my chameleon side takes over.
Then again, I question the potency of my Fe. If I am an INTP, the inferior Fe would explain why I’m so hesitant to really connect with others.

Ti vs Te:
This is simpler. I relate to Ti more than Te. Organizing people and carrying out plans (unless it’s part of my work) is something I’m not bothered with and prefer to leave to others. My Ti is exercised a lot more. Much of it is collecting information, research, trying to understand reasons for this and that. I have no need to organise any of it or to fit them into neat boxes and would actually prefer not to.

One thing I'd like to hear about is your relationship to your emotions. Are they valuable input to your decision making process, or are they more of a distraction?


Are you aware of your emotions in real time, or do you figure out you were angry or upset after the fact?

As far as I know, I’m aware of my emotions in real time, but may not always immediately understand the reasons behind them.

How aware are you of your emotions, and do you experience your emotions as multilayered with many subtle variations or more singly (whatever the intensity)?

I’ve been thinking about this one all day and must admit that it’s the latter. I always thought of myself as being in tune with my emotions but recently came to the realisation of how emotionally immature I actually am. I experience my emotions more singly. Most of the time, I’m in a detached mood where there are lots of thoughts running in my mind but feelings are like a plateau. But when I get really impatient (at a late train for example), I stamp my feet and have a hissy fit while everybody seems to have the self-control to stay calm. When I’m angry, I’m furious to a point where I don’t even try to hide it. When I allow myself dwell on sadness, I sob like a baby. These situations don’t happen often but when they do, I’m convinced I have problems, whether anger or depression.
How are “multilayered with many subtle variations” experienced in comparison? I’m not even completely sure of the difference.

How do you feel about and react to "inappropriate" emotions (both your own and in people around you)?

Depends on what you mean by “inappropriate emotions”. If a married man/woman betrays their partner by developing feelings for another, I would hope for them to just discard those feelings. Also, I’m annoyed by unnecessarily ridiculous displays of emotions where the person appears to be doing it for attention. In such situations, if I don’t sympathise, I merely roll my eyes go out of my way to NOT give them that attention.
If it’s an inappropriate emotion on my part…it depends. If I’m too angry to hide it, I hope people just ignore me and let me be. If I like someone I shouldn’t, I convince myself not feel that way and will try to bury it.

How do you feel about social obligations and expectations?

I’m pretty poor in this area. I say my “Thank yous” and “Sorrys” and am polite. There are some things I’m terrible at though, such as the whole “How are you?” greeting. When people ask me that, I simply smile and say “Good” to get it out of the way…and if I’m feeling cheeky, then my answer is “Freezing” or something that will get a spontaneous response. This is one of many rehearsed social obligations I don’t see the point of.

How aware are you of group dynamics?

In a work environment, I mostly just do my own work and don’t notice much about how people relate to each other in groups.
But in a more general sense, I am interested in the (often sheep-like) mentality of people in crowds and clubs, and how one person can affect everyone else. Social experiments and studies in this area are fascinating.

How about the emotional state of individuals?

I don’t really delve too deeply into another person’s emotions. Perhaps I lack real empathy… I do wonder and ask what/how people are feeling, but mostly in a data-gathering sense.

When a friend is suffering, do you tend to offer advice? If so, what kind of advice?

If a friend is suffering from other problems I may or may not have experience in, I’ll ask questions and make sure the problem is something that deserves their worrying in the first place. I tend to offer advice in a very matter-of-fact way and help them put things into perspective. If the situation is a death, then I don’t think I have the right to offer advice. I do offer myself as someone who will listen…and let them know they can reach out to me.

I'll need some time to think about your last question. ;)
 

Seymour

Vaguely Precise
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,579
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I really appreciate those questions, Seymour. :)

Thanks for taking the time to answer them! I'm answering this as an INFP who thinks he's a 5w4... I'd be curious to get reads from INTPs and other INFPs. Both types can be very idiosyncratic and quirky, since they aren't amazingly socially conforming on the whole.

I’ve done a lot of reading about Fi vs Fe and Ti vs Te and here is what I’ve observed of myself:

Fi vs Fe:
I’m very reserved and divulge incredibly little of myself to others, but I try to maintain a smiley and almost bubbly persona with friends and colleagues. I don’t change who I am on the inside for others or conform for the sake of it but I do make sure that on the outside, I’m pleasant and friendly enough. In emails and text messages, I make an effort not to come across as blunt or rude. I strive for integrity, but being polite and respectful to others is also important in my daily interaction with others.
Despite my attempts to see the difference between these two functions, I still can’t understand how or why they are mutually exclusive…if my understanding of Fi and Fe is correct. Perhaps it’s because I can detach from my social ‘mask’ that I don’t believe I’m betraying myself when my chameleon side takes over.
Then again, I question the potency of my Fe. If I am an INTP, the inferior Fe would explain why I’m so hesitant to really connect with others.

Ti vs Te:
This is simpler. I relate to Ti more than Te. [...]

I identify with much of the above. I tend not to expose much of myself to others (although I've gotten better at it over time). I feel a similar need to be honest and have integrity, yet be polite and upbeat.

I don't find Ti and Fi to be that conflicty, personally... and feel more aversion to Te rather than Ti. So I sympathize with you there.

As far as I know, I’m aware of my emotions in real time, but may not always immediately understand the reasons behind them.

INFPs, too, sometimes need post processing to figure out the reasons behind their emotions, so I don't think that's definitive one way or the other.


How aware are you of your emotions, and do you experience your emotions as multilayered with many subtle variations or more singly (whatever the intensity)?

I’ve been thinking about this one all day and must admit that it’s the latter. I always thought of myself as being in tune with my emotions but recently came to the realisation of how emotionally immature I actually am. I experience my emotions more singly. Most of the time, I’m in a detached mood where there are lots of thoughts running in my mind but feelings are like a plateau. But when I get really impatient (at a late train for example), I stamp my feet and have a hissy fit while everybody seems to have the self-control to stay calm. When I’m angry, I’m furious to a point where I don’t even try to hide it. When I allow myself dwell on sadness, I sob like a baby. These situations don’t happen often but when they do, I’m convinced I have problems, whether anger or depression.
How are “multilayered with many subtle variations” experienced in comparison? I’m not even completely sure of the difference.

I don't think emotional volatility is particularly Ti/Fi... I think it's independent of either. Dwelling on emotion and intensifying it I relate to e4, so that would fit with your enneagram wing.

At least some INFPs tend to experience their emotions as almost always mixed, with subtle variations. So, if someone asks me what my mood is, it would more than a word or two to answer honestly. My emotional state is always somewhat mixed, and it changes moment to moment as my thoughts and the environment around me change. I kind of use it as an internal barometer as I go throughout my day. My relationships to people and objects almost have a kind of "emotional signature" that I associate with whomever. This perception was more pronounced when I was younger, but some of it still exists.

Still, the above might not be true for every INFP.

How do you feel about and react to "inappropriate" emotions (both your own and in people around you)?

Depends on what you mean by “inappropriate emotions”. If a married man/woman betrays their partner by developing feelings for another, I would hope for them to just discard those feelings. Also, I’m annoyed by unnecessarily ridiculous displays of emotions where the person appears to be doing it for attention. In such situations, if I don’t sympathise, I merely roll my eyes go out of my way to NOT give them that attention.

If it’s an inappropriate emotion on my part…it depends. If I’m too angry to hide it, I hope people just ignore me and let me be. If I like someone I shouldn’t, I convince myself not feel that way and will try to bury it.

This sounds more Ti than Fi to me. Fi-doms usually (if not always) tend to see their emotions as a fundamental part of their reality that has to be worked with and through. Emotions may be inconvenient, but they never exist without a reason and have their own logic. Over time, we learn to understand the causes and whys, and that enabled us to have a fair amount of control (but never absolute control) over our emotional state.

When we are upset, we often drop everything to tend to our emotional state. Since we use our emotions as a lens, have it clouded by internal upset makes it difficult to function.

How do you feel about social obligations and expectations?

I’m pretty poor in this area. I say my “Thank yous” and “Sorrys” and am polite. There are some things I’m terrible at though, such as the whole “How are you?” greeting. When people ask me that, I simply smile and say “Good” to get it out of the way…and if I’m feeling cheeky, then my answer is “Freezing” or something that will get a spontaneous response. This is one of many rehearsed social obligations I don’t see the point of.

Sounds slightly more Ti to me, but Fi-doms often take issue with that... since of course people usually don't really want to hear about how one is in detail.

How aware are you of group dynamics?

In a work environment, I mostly just do my own work and don’t notice much about how people relate to each other in groups.
But in a more general sense, I am interested in the (often sheep-like) mentality of people in crowds and clubs, and how one person can affect everyone else. Social experiments and studies in this area are fascinating.

Sounds slightly more Ti to me.

How about the emotional state of individuals?

I don’t really delve too deeply into another person’s emotions. Perhaps I lack real empathy… I do wonder and ask what/how people are feeling, but mostly in a data-gathering sense.

Sounds more INTP to me.

When a friend is suffering, do you tend to offer advice? If so, what kind of advice?

If a friend is suffering from other problems I may or may not have experience in, I’ll ask questions and make sure the problem is something that deserves their worrying in the first place. I tend to offer advice in a very matter-of-fact way and help them put things into perspective. If the situation is a death, then I don’t think I have the right to offer advice. I do offer myself as someone who will listen…and let them know they can reach out to me.

Sounds more Ti to me. INFPs tend to empathize and support first, and try to clarify what the personal really feels and believes. Our advice tends not to be the most matter of fact... sometimes we tend towards "do what you feel/know is right" and the like.

I'll need some time to think about your last question. ;)

I look forward to hearing your reply.
 

Vizzy

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229
Enneagram
5w4
No, thank YOU for bothering to ask questions in the first place. :)

As you said, it would be interesting to get opinions from INTPs too. But it certainly is helpful to see how my answers relate to INFPs.

At least some INFPs tend to experience their emotions as almost always mixed, with subtle variations. So, if someone asks me what my mood is, it would more than a word or two to answer honestly. My emotional state is always somewhat mixed, and it changes moment to moment as my thoughts and the environment around me change. I kind of use it as an internal barometer as I go throughout my day. My relationships to people and objects almost have a kind of "emotional signature" that I associate with whomever. This perception was more pronounced when I was younger, but some of it still exists.
When people ask what your mood is, are you able (or do you feel the need) to elaborate or at least give an descriptive answer? When I get asked how I feel, I usually just manage a "Meh, I'm alright" or one-word answers that I give merely for the sake of giving a reply.

What you said about an "emotional signature" in your relationships with various people is interesting. Out of curiosity, would you mind elaborating on that a bit?

Fi-doms usually (if not always) tend to see their emotions as a fundamental part of their reality that has to be worked with and through. Emotions may be inconvenient, but they never exist without a reason and have their own logic. Over time, we learn to understand the causes and whys, and that enabled us to have a fair amount of control (but never absolute control) over our emotional state.

When we are upset, we often drop everything to tend to our emotional state. Since we use our emotions as a lens, have it clouded by internal upset makes it difficult to function.
I accept that there are always reasons behind emotions although they mightn't be valid everytime. Rather than drop everything and fix my attention on my emotional state, I'm more likely to push it aside...and eventually it fades away. By the time I have the time to analyze the reasoning behind it, my interest is on something else. I do try, though. When I do take the time to wallow in my feelings, it's quite therapeutic.

Sounds more Ti to me. INFPs tend to empathize and support first, and try to clarify what the personal really feels and believes. Our advice tends not to be the most matter of fact... sometimes we tend towards "do what you feel/know is right" and the like.
This is also very interesting. :) ...the idea of empathizing and offering support before understanding the situation. What if the person is overreacting? What if the situation isn't as bad as he/she thinks? On the other hand, I understand there are times where I'm so upset, I just want someone to comfort and cry with me. Surely everyone has "this isn't the best time for advice!" moments. But if you're asking how I'd offer advice if it was asked for, I'd start by getting all the details.

As for your intent vs correctness question, could you please elaborate on that a tad more? (Sorry - I'm always asking for elaboration.)
 

Seymour

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Sep 22, 2009
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
As you said, it would be interesting to get opinions from INTPs too. But it certainly is helpful to see how my answers relate to INFPs.

I agree... any INTPs want to chime in?

When people ask what your mood is, are you able (or do you feel the need) to elaborate or at least give an descriptive answer? When I get asked how I feel, I usually just manage a "Meh, I'm alright" or one-word answers that I give merely for the sake of giving a reply.

Well, I certainly don't' go into elaborate detail when people ask a polite "How're you?" Like most folks, I usually answer "fine," or "not too bad" or whatever. That's just understanding the level of detail (and honestly) people are asking for.

What you said about an "emotional signature" in your relationships with various people is interesting. Out of curiosity, would you mind elaborating on that a bit?

When I was a kid, each toy and person had a very specific emotional "feel." That is, that particular toy or person would evoke a particular set of emotional and aesthetic responses when perceived. These kind of acted (for me) as an identifying signature for the thing or person when I thought about it.

For example, imagine a favorite painting (or other work of art) from a museum you've enjoyed for years. You like it because it evokes a particular set of responses when you view it. Perhaps viewing it evokes a sense of tension or one of serenity. Perhaps it evokes a sense of balance or one of motion. Perhaps it evokes a sense of timelessness or ephemerality. Perhaps the subject matter or scene invokes sadness, happiness, loneliness, connectedness or whatever.

Then, add to that the emotional elements surrounding your visits to the museum to visit it. Perhaps it also evokes a sense of viewing it as a child, or your love (or dislike) of trips to the museum, maybe a little guilt that you don't go to the museum more often, etc.

Now, all those emotions and internal responses together create a kind of unique mix of feelings that are what the painting means to you on an aesthetic and emotional level. You never just experience just one feeling towards the painting (although certainly one feeling is likely to predominate at any moment)... the other feelings are always there, underneath or intermixed.

So, as an adult I'm not as consciously aware of the "signature" of particular objects, although people still have a particular "feel" for me. And I remain aware of my emotions and perceptions shifting as I view and interact with the world around me. An unexpected or unexplained shift in emotion often works as a kind of alarm bell that something needs attention.

I accept that there are always reasons behind emotions although they mightn't be valid everytime. Rather than drop everything and fix my attention on my emotional state, I'm more likely to push it aside...and eventually it fades away. By the time I have the time to analyze the reasoning behind it, my interest is on something else. I do try, though. When I do take the time to wallow in my feelings, it's quite therapeutic.

I'm not sure I'd ever say an emotion is invalid... although it might have been triggered by an invalid perception or misunderstanding, and may be inconvenient, socially inappropriate or hurtful to express. But the emotion itself simply is, and it neither good nor bad on its own.

And for an Fi-dom, I think it's difficult to simply ignore our emotional state without giving up a lot ability to perceive. Fi-doms try to harmonize their actions with their feelings and values. When dealing with upset, it's hard to perceive much else, so acting authentically with one's whole self becomes difficult at best. Also, the perceptions of the emotions of others becomes muddied when we are distracted by our own emotional upset.

This is also very interesting. :) ...the idea of empathizing and offering support before understanding the situation. What if the person is overreacting? What if the situation isn't as bad as he/she thinks? On the other hand, I understand there are times where I'm so upset, I just want someone to comfort and cry with me. Surely everyone has "this isn't the best time for advice!" moments. But if you're asking how I'd offer advice if it was asked for, I'd start by getting all the details.

INFPs are sometimes called "clarifying harmonizers," and—as much as that phrase makes me roll my eyes—there's some truth to it. I think we tend to want to build up a model of the other person's emotional perspective as a first step. There's a practical aspect to this, because advice that's out of sync with where another person is often can't be heard, much less followed. What's objectively and impersonally the simplest solution often doesn't matter if it's psychologically impossible (or requires far too much energy) for someone to understand and implement.

As for your intent vs correctness question, could you please elaborate on that a tad more? (Sorry - I'm always asking for elaboration.)

Well, I was trying to be more open ended, but Fi-doms often place a lot of emphasis on the intent of the other person. Part of this is, I think, because of the personal nature of Fi judgments and the difficulty of communicating the reasoning behind them. Given the lack of an external, objective standard for Fi, intent is often about all one has to judge the actions of others.

Ti-doms, on the other hand, usually are more focused on correctness and precision than Fi-doms are. The first reaction of Ti-doms (at least internally) when faced with an illogical or sloppy argument is not to let it slide because the other person means well or feels strongly about it. Of course, INTPs, too, are "behind the scenes" types and are fine with avoiding conflict (contrast with ENTPs, who don't mind poking the hornet's nest for pure entertainment, on occasion).

At any rate, I'm strongly learning towards INTP for you over INFP.
 

Xenon

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I agree... any INTPs want to chime in?

I'll answer the questions. I'm an INTP who also started off confused about my T/F preference, but I am now I'm fairly certain I'm T. I think I'm 5w4 as well, but I'm not as well versed in the enneagram so I'm not as sure of that. These 'type me' threads aren't that widely read, so you may not get much responses.


One thing I'd like to hear about is your relationship to your emotions. Are they valuable input to your decision making process, or are they more of a distraction? Are you aware of your emotions in real time, or do you figure out you were angry or upset after the fact? How aware are you of your emotions, and do you experience your emotions as multilayered with many subtle variations or more singly (whatever the intensity)?

I am plenty aware of my emotions in real time, and I'm usually aware of their cause. I don't think I experience them with as much detail as you, Seymour, described. They aren't always one single emotion, but they can usually be described in a few words. That was interesting to read: I've always thought of myself (and been described by other people) as very introspective and self-aware, but when it comes to emotional responses to people or objects or events, I don't have that kind of nuanced awareness.

I definitely don't find my emotions helpful as a guide to decision making. Not that I don't act on my emotions, but it's almost always unhelpful for me to do so. I decided to quit a job recently because I was feeling overwhelmed, and immediately regretted it. I decide to procrastinate on important stuff all the time because I feel unsure of myself, and as a result I feel stuck and can't get anything done. As a teenager I actually used to test on the T/F borderline, because I'd read questions about decision making and think of all these ways I've made stupid decisions because of my feelings (oh yeah, I skipped class yesterday afternoon because I didn't feel like going). It wasn't until coming here and reading some stuff F types have written that their use of feelings could get quite a bit more intricate and detailed than this. I don't really get it when INFPs talk about using their emotions as a guide or a perception tool.

It isn't that I ignore my emotions or that I'm unaware of them, but I don't find them particularly "useful". At times I feel the need to examine them so I can be sure they aren't interfering with my judgement. I often ask myself things like, Is this really true or do I just want it to be true? Am I dismissing possibility x because I fear or dread it? What if I've been assuming y just because it makes me feel better? I seem to get the most clarity that way, by being aware of my emotions or wishes but trying to reason as independently from them as I can.


How do you feel about and react to "inappropriate" emotions (both your own and in people around you)? How do you feel about social obligations and expectations? How aware are you of group dynamics? How about the emotional state of individuals?

I don't really judge emotions themselves as inappropriate. I've always found it pointless to feel guilty over mere feelings or wishes, etc. I think there can certainly be inappropriate use of them or inappropriate times to express them. And I can get very annoyed if tries to use them inappropriately to argue a point, or when someone acts like it's wrong to make a case for an idea or position that upsets them.

Social expectations...I don't mind the simple stuff. As long as they don't require me to pretend to be something I'm not, I deal with them. I hate being expected to say or do something dishonest just because I'm supposed to (for example, going to church and going through the motions even though I don't believe, just because "that's what families do"), and I avoid that whenever possible. Otherwise, I'm pretty easygoing. I can be oblivious to the more subtle expectations though, so I can sometimes come across as a bit socially clumsy.

I guess group dynamics and people's emotional states are things I can easily miss when I'm tuned out, but if I make an conscious effort to focus in on them I can read these things as well as most people. I think.


When a friend is suffering, do you tend to offer advice? If so, what kind of advice?


I often feel pretty useless when others are suffering. I'm generally not a natural empath, and I'm prone to feeling awkward when I don't have anything of substance to say to them. Trying to just listen and reflect on the speaker's feelings feels odd and forced to me, like I'm acting. I like to offer suggestions when I have them, mention other possibilities if someone is making unfounded assumptions, clarify things if their thinking is off in some way. If there's nothing like that to do, then I'm at a loss.

Also, how highly do you rate the importance of intent vs. correctness?

Um...well, I tend to focus more on the correctness of what is being said. I notice poor logic quite easily and it often bugs me (especially if the person's got a lot of other things on their side that I know will likely sway other people: strong emotion or a confident demeanor or social charm...).

When it comes to feeling judgements about good vs. bad, I seem to focus on results more than intent. I had this therapist once whom I'm pretty sure was INFP...I remember when I used to mention certain things he did and how they'd bother me or make me self-conscious, he'd stress that wasn't his intention. And it became a bit frustrating to me, because I was trying to talk about the effect of what he was doing, and he seemed to be turning the focus toward something less relevant.
 

Vizzy

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Thanks, 21% and Seymour.
I relate to both the IFP and ITP-child descriptions. I was quiet, serious about everything I did, curious, not demonstrative of feelings, crazy about books, was liked by all because I was nice but had only 1 or 2 close-ish friends but was nevertheless a loner.
On the other hand, I don't recall being particularly logical or objective but very idealistic and gentle. At school, I tried my best at every subject because failure wasn't an option. I wanted to please my parents and teachers and they'd tell you I was far from a problem child.

ITP kids need for things to be fair in order for them to be comfortable. They want rules to be enforced consistently for everyone, and will become upset over any perceived favoritism. They have a strong sense of fair play and will treat others fairly. They also expect to be treated fairly, and may become quite upset if they aren't.

I DO remember being annoyed at unfairness. There was one time where I stayed up til 2am perfecting and finishing up an assignment. It was due the next day but because so many turned up whining about not having enough time, the teacher suddenly decided to give everyone a couple of hours to finish up their projects before handing it in. I can't tell you how frustrated I was at the whole situation. I'm not sure if this is just an ITP thing. The fact was that the other students who didn't follow the rules got the rules bent in their favour by a teacher who happened to feel sorry for them... :mad:

Seymour, your explanation of the emotional feel was so nicely put. :) It really makes me think of the Si function too. Nostalgia is a HUGE thing for me. I'd like to think that everyone attaches a particular feeling (or feelings) to objects, art, experiences and people. Is this just magnified for INFPs?

I'm not sure I'd ever say an emotion is invalid... although it might have been triggered by an invalid perception or misunderstanding, and may be inconvenient, socially inappropriate or hurtful to express. But the emotion itself simply is, and it neither good nor bad on its own.
I may have mentioned it before but I've always thought I was an empathetic person. That said, there are many times I can be totally unconcerned and downright dismissive of people's feelings when I think they're irrational, overdramatic and unwarranted. Ugh, I nearly feel evil for saying that.
I do agree that an emotion is neither good or bad on its own. As you said, it just is, and to call it void would be like accusing a person of laughing incorrectly. But I still find myself judging emotions as "appropriate" vs "unnecessary"...and should be dismissed if the latter.

INFPs are sometimes called "clarifying harmonizers," and—as much as that phrase makes me roll my eyes—there's some truth to it. I think we tend to want to build up a model of the other person's emotional perspective as a first step. There's a practical aspect to this, because advice that's out of sync with where another person is often can't be heard, much less followed. What's objectively and impersonally the simplest solution often doesn't matter if it's psychologically impossible (or requires far too much energy) for someone to understand and implement.
That makes perfect sense. Before you try to get a hold of details and things like "What did he/she say?/And then what did you say?" (as part of my question-bombardment), you try to get on their level first and, at the same time, make sure they feel/trust that advice will be coming from someone who actually understands and empathizes with them. Is that right?
While I am known by friends as a great listener, I would feel as though I was acting, as blankpages said.
For me, I usually skim over that step because I doubt I'd genuinely understand what they feel...though I am often happy to just listen and nod.

As for intent versus correctness, I'm trying hard to think of a recent example to show which way I swing since both are important. I'd probably rate correctness higher as that's what's actual at the end of the day, as opposed to something as fuzzy and hard to decipher as intent.

I'm re-reading my answers here and realised how much of the INTP in me you've managed to get out. Of course, second, third and fourth opinions to confirm this is what I also want.

So, thanks for all this. :D

And blankpages, I really resonate with a lot of what you wrote, particularly
Is this really true or do I just want it to be true? Am I dismissing possibility x because I fear or dread it? What if I've been assuming y just because it makes me feel better?
which is something I always find myself asking.
I'd also like to know if Feeling types also often experience these questions.
 

Silveresque

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I am plenty aware of my emotions in real time, and I'm usually aware of their cause.
Same here.

I definitely don't find my emotions helpful as a guide to decision making.
I consider emotions important, but I usually don't make decisions based on emotion alone. My Fi realizes it isn't qualified to make reasonable decisions without first consulting Ti.

I don't really get it when INFPs talk about using their emotions as a guide or a perception tool.
I'm not sure I understand that either, to be honest.

I often ask myself things like, Is this really true or do I just want it to be true? Am I dismissing possibility x because I fear or dread it? What if I've been assuming y just because it makes me feel better? I seem to get the most clarity that way, by being aware of my emotions or wishes but trying to reason as independently from them as I can.
I can relate to this as well. I wonder if this might be a perceiving trait, or if it's specifically Ti analysis.

I don't really judge emotions themselves as inappropriate. I've always found it pointless to feel guilty over mere feelings or wishes, etc. I think there can certainly be inappropriate use of them or inappropriate times to express them. And I can get very annoyed if tries to use them inappropriately to argue a point, or when someone acts like it's wrong to make a case for an idea or position that upsets them.
I agree with you completely. All emotions are valid, but it's not always appropriate to express them. I also find argument based solely on feeling annoying.

Social expectations...I don't mind the simple stuff. As long as they don't require me to pretend to be something I'm not, I deal with them. I hate being expected to say or do something dishonest just because I'm supposed to (for example, going to church and going through the motions even though I don't believe, just because "that's what families do"), and I avoid that whenever possible. Otherwise, I'm pretty easygoing. I can be oblivious to the more subtle expectations though, so I can sometimes come across as a bit socially clumsy.
Sounds pretty much like me.

I often feel pretty useless when others are suffering. I'm generally not a natural empath, and I'm prone to feeling awkward when I don't have anything of substance to say to them. Trying to just listen and reflect on the speaker's feelings feels odd and forced to me, like I'm acting. I like to offer suggestions when I have them, mention other possibilities if someone is making unfounded assumptions, clarify things if their thinking is off in some way. If there's nothing like that to do, then I'm at a loss.
I'm exactly the same way. Sometimes the only thing I can say is "Well, there's not really anything we can do about it..."

When it comes to feeling judgements about good vs. bad, I seem to focus on results more than intent.
I don't believe there has to be a focus on one or the other, since results and intent don't necessarily apply to the same type of thing. When you're judging results, you're deciding whether the choice was good or bad, and when you're judging intent, you're deciding whether the person was good or bad. For example, if someone has good intentions but the results are bad, that makes the choice bad, but not the person. At least, that's how I see it.

I'm an INFP, yet my answers are pretty much the same blankpages's answers. Either I'm wrong in my own typing or the line between INFP's and INTP's is quite thin. I seem to act and even think more like an INTP these days, and if I didn't think back to how I was as a child, I would probably never know I'm an INFP. Anyways, just figured it might be helpful to have an INFP perspective as well.
 

Xenon

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I'm an INFP, yet my answers are pretty much the same blankpages's answers. Either I'm wrong in my own typing or the line between INFP's and INTP's is quite thin. I seem to act and even think more like an INTP these days, and if I didn't think back to how I was as a child, I would probably never know I'm an INFP. Anyways, just figured it might be helpful to have an INFP perspective as well.

Well, logically there is a third possibility: I'm wrong about my type. So I appreciate your assumption that I'm not. :wink:

If you'd "never know" you were INFP based on your current thinking and behaviour, then perhaps you are not one. What did you think of what Seymour said a few posts ago about the sort of answers an INFP would likely give?

Hanging around here listening to different types describe how they think has given me a clearer picture what Fi actually is, and I no longer think I have strong use of it. I used to get high Fi readings on those cognitive tests, but I no longer trust that they're a good measure of actual function use. Sometimes someone can relate to a "function use" statement for reasons that have nothing to do with the function it's supposed to measure. And they have the same problem as the typical tests: they rely on accurate self-perception.

As for Vizzy, I don't see her as any sort of FP type. I'm thinking definitely introverted, and probably TP or FJ.
 

Silveresque

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If you'd "never know" you were INFP based on your current thinking and behaviour, then perhaps you are not one. What did you think of what Seymour said a few posts ago about the sort of answers an INFP would likely give?

Well, I'm so much a mix of the two types that it's very hard to tell which one I'm more like. I suppose it's possible I could actually be an INTP, although I'm fairly certain I'm an INFP based on how I used to be as a child. I used to be much more emotional and temperamental, and I was somewhat prone to emotional outbursts. I'm pretty sure I started to develop my Ti in sixth grade, when I all of sudden went from failing math tests to getting A's without exerting more effort. Actually, that sounds more like Ne, but whether or not Ti was the cause or an effect of my success in math, that's definitely when it started, because that's when I started to like math and science and emphasize my analytical side.

Anyways, let's look at what Seymour has said.

When I was a kid, each toy and person had a very specific emotional "feel." That is, that particular toy or person would evoke a particular set of emotional and aesthetic responses when perceived. These kind of acted (for me) as an identifying signature for the thing or person when I thought about it.

For example, imagine a favorite painting (or other work of art) from a museum you've enjoyed for years. You like it because it evokes a particular set of responses when you view it. Perhaps viewing it evokes a sense of tension or one of serenity. Perhaps it evokes a sense of balance or one of motion. Perhaps it evokes a sense of timelessness or ephemerality. Perhaps the subject matter or scene invokes sadness, happiness, loneliness, connectedness or whatever.

Then, add to that the emotional elements surrounding your visits to the museum to visit it. Perhaps it also evokes a sense of viewing it as a child, or your love (or dislike) of trips to the museum, maybe a little guilt that you don't go to the museum more often, etc.

Now, all those emotions and internal responses together create a kind of unique mix of feelings that are what the painting means to you on an aesthetic and emotional level. You never just experience just one feeling towards the painting (although certainly one feeling is likely to predominate at any moment)... the other feelings are always there, underneath or intermixed.

So, as an adult I'm not as consciously aware of the "signature" of particular objects, although people still have a particular "feel" for me. And I remain aware of my emotions and perceptions shifting as I view and interact with the world around me. An unexpected or unexplained shift in emotion often works as a kind of alarm bell that something needs attention.

I can sort of relate to this. I don't know if I've ever gone so far as to consciously attach emotional labels to objects, but I can understand the idea of objects arousing unique emotions. Actually, I think I do this all the time with words when I'm studying foreign languages. I always try not to just memorize the word and its translation, but to feel it.

And for an Fi-dom, I think it's difficult to simply ignore our emotional state without giving up a lot ability to perceive. Fi-doms try to harmonize their actions with their feelings and values. When dealing with upset, it's hard to perceive much else, so acting authentically with one's whole self becomes difficult at best. Also, the perceptions of the emotions of others becomes muddied when we are distracted by our own emotional upset.

I can definitely relate to this. When I get really upset, I have to withdraw and try to work through my feelings. It definitely seems like an impairment when I'm in an emotional state, and sometimes I'm just not able to focus or function.

INFPs are sometimes called "clarifying harmonizers," and—as much as that phrase makes me roll my eyes—there's some truth to it. I think we tend to want to build up a model of the other person's emotional perspective as a first step. There's a practical aspect to this, because advice that's out of sync with where another person is often can't be heard, much less followed. What's objectively and impersonally the simplest solution often doesn't matter if it's psychologically impossible (or requires far too much energy) for someone to understand and implement.

I strongly relate to this as well. When someone else is really upset and I have something to say about it, I will always keep quiet unless I know that that person is able and willing to listen in their current emotional state.
 

Seymour

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My perspective certainly isn't the universally approved INFP one... so some of this may well just be me. For example, I'm pretty sure not every INFP is so hyper-aware of emotional state. Still, I think INFPs do work towards there being harmony between ideals, emotions and actions.

I consider emotions important, but I usually don't make decisions based on emotion alone. My Fi realizes it isn't qualified to make reasonable decisions without first consulting Ti.

I don't make mine based on emotions alone, but I admit that often what I feel and value on a "gut level" is the deciding factor (which is different from transitory emotion). Even so, I do try to validate things logically before deciding on a course of action.

blankpages said:
I don't really get it when INFPs talk about using their emotions as a guide or a perception tool.
I'm not sure I understand that either, to be honest.

Emotional responses can signal things that one may have missed on a conscious level. For example, if someone is trying to manipulate me often I will feel a sense of anger coming (seemingly) out of nowhere. When that happens, I take a step back and try to analyze where the anger is coming from.

A metaphor I've used before is that it's a bit like going through one's day with a trusted pet... you know your pet and your know how it normally responds to things. If it's suddenly growling, or intently watching something, it's a clue for you to take a look, too. Your pet isn't rational, but it may pick up on things that you miss. When your pet gets upset, you have to attend to it before you can continue about your business.

Emotions are a guide in another sense, too, since acting against one's principles causes emotional distress or a sense of queasiness... kind of in the same way that acting inauthentically does. So in that sense, they are a guide to keeping your actions in line with your beliefs.

blankpages said:
I often ask myself things like, Is this really true or do I just want it to be true? Am I dismissing possibility x because I fear or dread it? What if I've been assuming y just because it makes me feel better? I seem to get the most clarity that way, by being aware of my emotions or wishes but trying to reason as independently from them as I can.
I can relate to this as well. I wonder if this might be a perceiving trait, or if it's specifically Ti analysis.

I don't do a lot of that specific kind of second guessing... but no idea if that's just me.


[...]

I don't believe there has to be a focus on one or the other, since results and intent don't necessarily apply to the same type of thing. When you're judging results, you're deciding whether the choice was good or bad, and when you're judging intent, you're deciding whether the person was good or bad. For example, if someone has good intentions but the results are bad, that makes the choice bad, but not the person. At least, that's how I see it.

That sounds totally fair. I think most people are willing to forgive a bit based on good intent. I think where the line falls can be influenced by type. I've heard NFJs express frustration at NFPs when they ignore commonly accepted wisdom and it ends poorly, even though the NFP meant well and each step seemed reasonable at the time.

I'm an INFP, yet my answers are pretty much the same blankpages's answers. Either I'm wrong in my own typing or the line between INFP's and INTP's is quite thin. I seem to act and even think more like an INTP these days, and if I didn't think back to how I was as a child, I would probably never know I'm an INFP. Anyways, just figured it might be helpful to have an INFP perspective as well.

I've certainly moved a lot in the "T" direction over time. Certainly training and experience modify things and (one hopes) moves one more towards balance over time.

Well, I'm so much a mix of the two types that it's very hard to tell which one I'm more like. I suppose it's possible I could actually be an INTP, although I'm fairly certain I'm an INFP based on how I used to be as a child. I used to be much more emotional and temperamental, and I was somewhat prone to emotional outbursts. I'm pretty sure I started to develop my Ti in sixth grade, when I all of sudden went from failing math tests to getting A's without exerting more effort. Actually, that sounds more like Ne, but whether or not Ti was the cause or an effect of my success in math, that's definitely when it started, because that's when I started to like math and science and emphasize my analytical side.

Again, I've certainly become much more balanced F/T-wise over time. Still, on some level I admit the Fi wins over all else for me.

I can sort of relate to this. I don't know if I've ever gone so far as to consciously attach emotional labels to objects, but I can understand the idea of objects arousing unique emotions. Actually, I think I do this all the time with words when I'm studying foreign languages. I always try not to just memorize the word and its translation, but to feel it.

I don't think that, even as a child, I ever consciously assigned emotional labels to thing... just that my perception of each object and person had it's own feel... and that "signature" became more-or-less stable over time. The combination of feelings identified the "essence" of something on some level. I don't think every INFP experiences this to the same degree I did, though.

Still, here's an exerpt from simulated world's INFP description:

simulatedworld said:
Fi users believe there is a definite moral order to the universe [...] and that the only way we may catch a glimpse of this sacred ideal is by allowing ourselves complete and total connection and understanding with our emotional responses and the way they reflect that which upholds the internal "essence" of moral goodness as we understand it subjectively and individually.

So I think that connection with internal emotional essence and ideals is fairly typical of INFPs.

EDIT: BTW, I don't necessarily thing there is an absolute system or morality, either.
 
Last edited:

Silveresque

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This "moral essence" makes sense to me, but I'm not sure believe that there is any absolute system of morality. All feelings are valid, but different people may experience different emotional reactions to the same situation, so one person's Fi-based morality may differ from that of another.

I found a quote from an older thread that I think is relevant to this thread, in case you're still not sure about your type, Vizzy. I think this really helps put things into perspective.

One thing is that that INFPs tend to have an engaged kindness, while INTPs tend to have a detached kindness. Both can be kind and low-key, it's just that INTPs tend to intellectualize a relationship rather than engaging purely on the emotional level like INFPs can naturally do.

I was talking to a close INFP friend last night and describing a situation where one of my children was in the hospital years ago, and how I just had no real template for what to do. I cared about my child, and I would be there with him in the hospital, but he was very young and thus could not "engage" and I had no idea what to say or how to interact or whatever, and even at times felt bored. It was hard for me to stay there all the time, despite caring as much as I did, my mind was unable to engage anything, and so I was at a loss. I was judged by people in my family for "not caring" about my child, but that is the furthest from the truth.

My friend said when one of his children was in the hospital as a baby, he had no problems: He would sit there for hours, talking to his baby son, and engaging him emotionally even if there was no intellectual/articulated response back. He could do that, and he could totally understand why I couldn't... because I'm not him. What F ability I have came from growing up and living my life surrounded by F-style people and learning how to speak their language just so we could all get along, but it's not that instinctive for me.

Both INTPs and INFPs care, but INTPs tend to need a more intellectual interface by which they try to "articulate" their caring, INFPs will more exude and show it rather than having to explain it and how it works.

Uh oh. I think I might have actually mistyped myself...again...:(

Anyways, I don't intend to make this thread about me. How do you relate to these examples? Are you still unsure about your type?
 

Totenkindly

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Boy, it's weird to have someone post something I never even remember writing.

I'm glad it was helpful though. :)
 
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