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My Instinctual Variant

G

Ginkgo

Guest
I am slowly becoming disillusioned with the idea that I have any chronic preference for one instinct over the other. The thread I made on pnation had me somewhat convinced that I was sx/sp, but reading different posts here and reasoning as to why others are sx leading has me questioning it.

So here are what I consider to be the defining essences of each preference -

sx: concerned with other individuals
so: concerned with groups
sp: concerned with self

Pretty basic, right? Well, if you're concerned with groups, you're concerned with individuals. If you're concerned with a group you're in, you're concerned with yourself and other individuals.

The picture is unclear by the way I'm defining them. Being instinctively driven by social inclinations has the potential to cover everything in one swath.

So let me make it more complex:

so: concern for an extensive network of individuals
sx: concern for thorough relationships with individuals
sp: concern for the integrity and livelihood of the self

Of course we bare all three of these instincts, but their tends to be a ranking in priority.

According to my more complex definitions, I would be inclined to say I was sx/so, but I'm less certain about the so.

:huh:
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Misconceptions:

Sx is about intense one-to-one relationships only, not "the other indivuals"
So is not about "groups" it's about "your" group, "the" group.
Sp is about safety, not about the self.

Some info.


[youtube=D86IVsoiqTE]Enneagram Types and Subtypes with Helen Palmer[/youtube]

ENNEAGRAM OF PERSONALITY INSTINCTUAL VARIANTS / STACKINGS

Instincts - Self Preservation, Social, Sexual.

These three instincts are built into our bestial nature, which resides at an unconscious level helping to ensure our survival, both of ourselves and our species. From the perspective of the enneagram, we want to know how these drives appear and function, both within personality and as distinct patterns, as defined by each instinct alone or the alignment of two or three (stacking).

Sexuals attract others without really trying. They also repel others in the same way, like an anti-pheromone. This works like a screening function in the mating process. People typically have a strong reaction one way or another towards Sx's, and vice versa.

Self Pres people instinctively avoid certain foods and environments, and are likewise drawn to those things that nourish and sustain them. Sp's have a strong reaction against things that threaten to harm their comfort or health.

Social is driven towards gaining protection and empowerment within larger entities.


Soc's typically react strongly against things which would jeopardize or displace their position or reputation.

The instinct is always trying to work for our survival, whether we know it or not. Personality can only get in the way. Animals, as more or less fully instinctual beings, don't have this problem. But integrating our personality with instinct requires that each side of ourselves is fully aware of the other side. Otherwise we are automated, automatic, and on autopilot.

Basic Instinctual Subtype Stackings

The Sexual Stackings

sx/sp

This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.

Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer

Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from "Hunchback of Notre Dame"

sx/so

This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they're involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it's purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other's buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It's not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they're able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.

Motivation: to impact others, question assumptions, challenge convention.

Examples of sx/so: Madonna, John Lennon, Yukio Mishima, Robin Williams, Drew Barrymore, Richard Simmons, Elvis, Bono, George Michael, Sinead O'Connor, Joan of Arc

The Self-pres Stackings.

sp/soc

This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society's practical needs.

Motivation: to attain a position of material and societal security.

Familiar Roles: the businessperson, the responsible citizen, the pillar of society.

Examples: Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Martha Stewart, Harrison Ford

sp/sx

These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant's surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

Familiar Roles: the mate, the mystic, the quiet supporter.

Examples: George Harrison, Jackie Onassis, Eric Clapton, Emily Dickinson

The Social Stackings

soc/sp

This type is often the most comfortable in group settings, but tends to be a bit formal and awkward in one to one relations. This is the natural political type, affiliating themselves with groups or theories which best defend their social and material interests. They may lack warmth and individual identity and this could lead to problems in forming meaningful relationships outside of a shared social interest. The motivation for this type is to attain status within their chosen sphere - the "social climber."

Examples of soc/sp: Hillary Clinton, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ted Nugent

soc/sx

This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends. This type's motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in - the "best friend."

Examples of soc/sx: Michael Jackson, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, Margaret Cho, Jack McFarland from "Will & Grace"

sp/soc: The most straightfoward in language, with relatively little trills and embellishments. Points made directly and from personal experience. Business-like. Clear. Cynical. Lacking in internal experience compared to other stackings.

sp/sx: Comes out as somewhat heavy and gloomy, or cool and detached. Often gives out a suffocating and insular vibe, as if their internal world is wrapped around by an impermeable membrane. Strong sensory impressions designed to awake sexuality. Makes one want to linger on one or two lines forever.

soc/sp: Tangential. Lots of details and analysis. Very in-their-head and intellectual, and lacks sensuality. Comes across as level-headed and unspontaneous, but also with personal warmth. Their written works often require a great deal of mental concentration from the readers. (Helen Palmer is So/Sp, pretty illustrating)

soc/sx: The word "fantastical" comes to mind. Lots of virtuosity and trills, and often removed from the real world. One is whirled away by the dazzling fairies of their colorful imagination. Can be too rich in imagery for their own good. Sustained dramatic power due to their knowledge of interpersonal dynamics.

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.


What's your enneatype BTW?
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am slowly becoming disillusioned with the idea that I have any chronic preference for one instinct over the other. The thread I made on pnation had me somewhat convinced that I was sx/sp, but reading different posts here and reasoning as to why others are sx leading has me questioning it.

So here are what I consider to be the defining essences of each preference -

sx: concerned with other individuals
so: concerned with groups
sp: concerned with self

Pretty basic, right? Well, if you're concerned with groups, you're concerned with individuals. If you're concerned with a group you're in, you're concerned with yourself and other individuals.

The picture is unclear by the way I'm defining them. Being instinctively driven by social inclinations has the potential to cover everything in one swath.

So let me make it more complex:

so: concern for an extensive network of individuals
sx: concern for thorough relationships with individuals
sp: concern for the integrity and livelihood of the self

Of course we bare all three of these instincts, but their tends to be a ranking in priority.

According to my more complex definitions, I would be inclined to say I was sx/so, but I'm less certain about the so.

:huh:

I think that they're all interconnected and that's why you're confused. my theory is that instinct variants are more about priorities. for instance, if you're in the hood, it's pretty clear who the Sp survivalist types are (usually the ones who get out lol) and the So people are. however, in richer subcultures, you often see that So needs (hobbies, friends), Sp needs (comfort, safety, personal hygiene) and Sx needs (intimacy, cosmetic care) are all very well accounted for. if you're a healthy individual living a balanced lifestyle, I think instinct variants are harder to determine because they're just that, instincts and thus arise more when we're under stress or in harder times. just a theory though :laugh:
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
if you're a healthy individual living a balanced lifestyle, I think instinct variants are harder to determine because they're just that, instincts and thus arise more when we're under stress or in harder times. just a theory though :laugh:

No, if you are helthy, your dominant instinct is even more obvious because you can give more energy to this.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Misconceptions:

Sx is about intense one-to-one relationships only, not "the other indivuals"
So is not about "groups" it's about "your" group, "the" group.
Sp is about safety, not about the self.

So would you say that all of the sp's on this site who don't relate at all to sp equating to simply security and material concerns are in fact not sp? The lists you have particularly of sp/so and so/sp celebrities are all of a similar vein... Martha Stewart, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Gates, Bill O'Reilly...I mean, come on. What would an INFx or ISxP version of sp/so or so/sp look like then? Certainly quite different in overall concerns and such. Anyway, I'm 1000% NOT sp/so if that is in fact what sp/so is. I'm nothing like the people listed in those lists.

(Who decides whether those lists are definitive and whether all of these instinctual definitions are definitive though? ;))

Through various sp threads on this site, sp's DO tend to identify with the OP's definitions of sp - as concerned with self and ALL self-needs/balance, extending beyond simply material things.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
I think that they're all interconnected and that's why you're confused. my theory is that instinct variants are more about priorities. for instance, if you're in the hood, it's pretty clear who the Sp survivalist types are (usually the ones who get out lol) and the So people are. however, in richer subcultures, you often see that So needs (hobbies, friends), Sp needs (comfort, safety, personal hygiene) and Sx needs (intimacy, cosmetic care) are all very well accounted for. if you're a healthy individual living a balanced lifestyle, I think instinct variants are harder to determine because they're just that, instincts and thus arise more when we're under stress or in harder times. just a theory though :laugh:

Never say "in the hood" again. Thank you.

Misconceptions:

Sx is about intense one-to-one relationships only, not "the other indivuals"
So is not about "groups" it's about "your" group, "the" group.
Sp is about safety, not about the self.

Basically what I came to the conclusion of.

Some info.


[youtube=D86IVsoiqTE]Enneagram Types and Subtypes with Helen Palmer[/youtube]

I'll watch after making this post. I'm going to cross out what I deduct from my potential stackings and underline anything that particularly resonates with me. I may bold anything that meets me half-way.

ENNEAGRAM OF PERSONALITY INSTINCTUAL VARIANTS / STACKINGS

Instincts - Self Preservation, Social, Sexual.

These three instincts are built into our bestial nature, which resides at an unconscious level helping to ensure our survival, both of ourselves and our species. From the perspective of the enneagram, we want to know how these drives appear and function, both within personality and as distinct patterns, as defined by each instinct alone or the alignment of two or three (stacking).

Sexuals attract others without really trying. They also repel others in the same way, like an anti-pheromone. This works like a screening function in the mating process. People typically have a strong reaction one way or another towards Sx's, and vice versa.

I'm not exactly certain of this. It's something that must be garnered from the opinions of other people and isn't exactly self-evident. I would imagine sx people tend to make extreme impressions one way or another - rather radical.

Self Pres people instinctively avoid certain foods and environments, and are likewise drawn to those things that nourish and sustain them. Sp's have a strong reaction against things that threaten to harm their comfort or health.

[c]Social is driven towards gaining protection and empowerment within larger entities.[/c]
Soc's typically react strongly against things which would jeopardize or displace their position or reputation.

I like knowing that I'm accepted and can sometimes go out of my way to be excepted by groups or individuals. However, there I times when the scales tip in the opposite direction, I challenge someone or something once I get close enough to both maintain a sense of individuality and jostle things around a bit. Occasionally I dig my own grave in the eyes of others, but as long as it's no one significant to me, I'll feel fine.

As far as the self preservation goes, I do avoid certain environments, but it's usually because of the social atmosphere and the connotation it brings. On principle, I will not enter certain buildings or be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Concerning my well being, personal relationships ride the cusp of the wave, while physical wellness (unfortunately) comes last.

The instinct is always trying to work for our survival, whether we know it or not. Personality can only get in the way. Animals, as more or less fully instinctual beings, don't have this problem. But integrating our personality with instinct requires that each side of ourselves is fully aware of the other side. Otherwise we are automated, automatic, and on autopilot.

Basic Instinctual Subtype Stackings

The Sexual Stackings

sx/sp

This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.

Ultimately, I do care what others think, though I identify with searching for that "missing piece" as a soul searcher. Formalities are strained but are of concern, while at the same time it seems that I'm frequently second-guessing my sense of how to be formal or appropriate.

Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer

Cool.

Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from "Hunchback of Notre Dame"

Definitely fits for Carl Jung and many of the rest as far as I know. Lol @ Frollo. What a jackass.

sx/so

This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they're involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it's purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other's buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It's not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they're able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.
This person sounds fucking awesome and i identify strongly with it. Haha.

Motivation: to impact others, question assumptions, challenge convention.

Examples of sx/so: Madonna, John Lennon, Yukio Mishima, Robin Williams, Drew Barrymore, Richard Simmons, Elvis, Bono, George Michael, Sinead O'Connor, Joan of Arc

Kickass.

The Self-pres Stackings.

sp/soc

[c]This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society's practical needs.

Motivation: to attain a position of material and societal security.

Familiar Roles: the businessperson, the responsible citizen, the pillar of society.[/c]

:sleeping:

Examples: Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Martha Stewart, Harrison Ford

:huh:

sp/sx

These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant's surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

I can't stand frilly, excessive pillows. I get the organic, root level thing. I get the quick one-on-one sttraction. I identify with the depth.

Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

Familiar Roles: the mate, the mystic, the quiet supporter.

:shrug: I understand that, it resonates, but it seems too confined.

Examples: George Harrison, Jackie Onassis, Eric Clapton, Emily Dickinson

Only know Eric Clapton. Great guitarist, terrible drinker.

The Social Stackings

soc/sp

[c]This type is often the most comfortable in group settings, but tends to be a bit formal and awkward in one to one relations. This is the natural political type, affiliating themselves with groups or theories which best defend their social and material interests. They may lack warmth and individual identity and this could lead to problems in forming meaningful relationships outside of a shared social interest. The motivation for this type is to attain status within their chosen sphere - the "social climber."

Examples of soc/sp: Hillary Clinton, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ted Nugent[/c]

soc/sx

This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends. This type's motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in - the "best friend."

Examples of soc/sx: Michael Jackson, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, Margaret Cho, Jack McFarland from "Will & Grace"
[/QUOTE]

This resonates. Mirroring others and being rather flighty.

sp/soc: The most straightfoward in language, with relatively little trills and embellishments. Points made directly and from personal experience. Business-like. Clear. Cynical. Lacking in internal experience compared to other stackings.

sp/sx: Comes out as somewhat heavy and gloomy, or cool and detached. Often gives out a suffocating and insular vibe, as if their internal world is wrapped around by an impermeable membrane. Strong sensory impressions designed to awake sexuality. Makes one want to linger on one or two lines forever.

soc/sp: Tangential. Lots of details and analysis. Very in-their-head and intellectual, and lacks sensuality. Comes across as level-headed and unspontaneous, but also with personal warmth. Their written works often require a great deal of mental concentration from the readers. (Helen Palmer is So/Sp, pretty illustrating)

soc/sx: The word "fantastical" comes to mind. Lots of virtuosity and trills, and often removed from the real world. One is whirled away by the dazzling fairies of their colorful imagination. Can be too rich in imagery for their own good. Sustained dramatic power due to their knowledge of interpersonal dynamics.

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.
Necromancer sx/sp? Lol. I'm abstract, and I
sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.


What's your enneatype BTW?[/QUOTE]

SHIT I NEED TO GO.

I most strongly identify with 4w5. 459,469,458 are tritypes that resonate with me. Haven't thought about the triforce or whatever it is. Sorry,
 

King sns

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
6,714
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Never say "in the hood" again. Thank you.

:dont: That's not a very good survival attitude. You'd be creamed in the hood! Someone would be out to knock ya' one down there!
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So would you say that all of the sp's on this site who don't relate at all to sp equating to simply security and material concerns are in fact not sp?

I'd say that they confound their Sp with 4, 5 and 9, or that they are more concerned with security than they think they are.

The lists you have particularly of sp/so and so/sp celebrities are all of a similar vein... Martha Stewart, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Gates, Bill O'Reilly...I mean, come on. What would an INFx or ISxP version of sp/so or so/sp look like then? Certainly quite different in overall concerns and such. Anyway, I'm 1000% NOT sp/so if that is in fact what sp/so is. I'm nothing like the people listed in those lists.

It depends of the enneatype, Donald Trump is a 8w7,and he's not withdrawing at all, but let's see for the yours, the 5w4.

5w4 Sp/So
Jim Woodring http://youtube.com/watch?v=JP0oSaUQn5E
Stephen King http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic7JnF4vStA
Glenn Gould http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNhjs57j5oU
KD Lang http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV5XlPFmf5M
Samuel Beckett http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w14AfFVqyjM
Guy Maddin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KArJgBRLow
Maldoon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMvcBsgMbWI
Annie Leibovitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRhbqtV6RcA
Stephen Daldry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aeVvxMfRQ

All theses people fits with the Sp/So descriotion: they are pracctical,realistic, self-contained, good citizens, and concerned with comfort and safety. I think many of them are INxx.

Then, for 5w4 So/Sp

5w4 So/Sp
Albert Einstein http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-1Z2wi2uSA
Werner Herzog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4i5WkkXdmc
Peter Gabriel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruo4l7E8j_A
Colin Wilson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btNpJ0iUaRQ
David Byrne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQUSDExQk1o
Susan Sontag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvlZ2Ake6FU
Frank Tovey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lomguq7kNSA
Laurie Anderson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeSPZsw8h7Y
Hannelore Knuts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEkemQeSQw
Lily Tomlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNbYgpE_zdI

Theses people fit with the So/Sp descriotion too, they are collected public figure, self-contained and turned to comfort and safety. Again, many of them are INxx

Now, here are sexual 5w4s:

5w4 Sx/Sp
Kurt Cobain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqzn9F0GI1o
Sinead O'Connor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ExY8IPx454
Trent Reznor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr8FXnur5Z4
David Croneberg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbMsQI7MLW0
Bjork http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzixwWyrwU
Roger Waters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2C2GOizswU
Daniel Day-Lewis http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m__YjM8gg3s
Louise Gluck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRJ1D2DpXpo
Michelangelo Antonioni http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b8xtTbJXlY
Tilda Swinton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-OWANK5lrQ
Béla Bartók http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Es88Z--QfY
Marina Abramovic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UODaRxt8Zuw


5w4 Sx/So
John Lennon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwJj2efChFk
William Burroughs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw1U4EJdtgs
Patti Smith http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8msBBzkJn_E
Oriana Fallaci http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/221
Clive Barker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM6-SIzMr3c

Fictional
Hannibal Lector

Theses people fits with descriptions of Sx. But are clearly different than sx last 5s.

(Who decides whether those lists are definitive and whether all of these instinctual definitions are definitive though? ;))

We could also wonder who decide that 2+2=4, but that would be as pointless.

Through various sp threads on this site, sp's DO tend to identify with the OP's definitions of sp - as concerned with self and ALL self-needs/balance, extending beyond simply material things.

Yes, but self-pres last are concerned with the self too, but not with safety. It's the same thing for Sx, Sx-last are concerned with other people to, but they don't especially seek intensity, they seek comfortable relationships. but Sp is not about withdrawing, it's about 5. Howard Hughes was a 5w6 Sx/So, and you know how he ended.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
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sx/sp
No, if you are helthy, your dominant instinct is even more obvious because you can give more energy to this.

yes, but doesn't being healthy and wealthy also give you more recources to devote to priorities 2 and 3?
 

cascadeco

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I'd say that they confound their Sp with 4, 5 and 9, or that they are more concerned with security than they think they are.

Fair enough, and especially to the last point, that's probably true.

We could also wonder who decide that 2+2=4, but that would be as pointless.

It's not really the same thing. The nature of typing is pretty subjective to begin with - my point being that many 'experts' disagree on what constitutes what type, and it's also observable in every single Typing thread on this forum - one person asserting definitively that so and so is one certain type, another person asserting equally definitively that they are another type. I was simply curious who decided all of those celebrities were in fact those types. :shrug:

But thanks very much for the additional information and 5w4 examples!! That's very helpful and I appreciate it. I'll have to think about those various examples a bit more.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Through various sp threads on this site, sp's DO tend to identify with the OP's definitions of sp - as concerned with self and ALL self-needs/balance, extending beyond simply material things.

Precisely. For instance, in the case of a 5, there would probably be a protective attitude toward maintaining that intellectual "home-base", since it's so bound to the individual's primary circuit - the head. Hording knowledge by rote memorization might be an inclination, or, conversely, rejecting information to preserve the integrity of the 5's worldview. I don't like how sp always holds a connotation of material wealth, as immaterial matters, even in the spiritual, philosophical, and abstract sense contribute to one's personal health. I can personally attest to feeling satisfied, as if I just gorged myself with lamb chops, after reading a good book. Without learning, I may grow to feel vacant.
 
G

Ginkgo

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I think I'm a sx/sp, just unwilling to admit to it because I see it in a negative light.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
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6w7
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sx/sp
I don't like how sp always holds a connotation of material wealth, as immaterial matters, even in the spiritual, philosophical, and abstract sense contribute to one's personal health.

Precisely, to be concerned with immaterial things for personal health is a typycal self-pres thing, Sx are concerned with the emmaterial to feel intense.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
:dont: That's not a very good survival attitude. You'd be creamed in the hood! Someone would be out to knock ya' one down there!

yo shit i got 3 rules fo yo in the hood. if yo readin' this, im either ded, or on the inside

ONE: run faster
TWO: Dont trip
THREE: dont look back
 

King sns

New member
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enfp
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6w7
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sp/sx
yo shit i got 3 rules fo yo in the hood. if yo readin' this, im either ded, or on the inside

ONE: run faster
TWO: Dont trip
THREE: dont look back

I'm an SP/SX of COURSE I know the rules of "The Hood" already. Don't have to tell me twice!! :rolli:
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Precisely, to be concerned with immaterial things for personal health is a typycal self-pres thing, Sx are concerned with the emmaterial to feel intense.

Health is directly related to self preservation.

EDIT: nevermind. Sorry I didn't read your post thoroughly because my ADD festered brain was too fixated on your crappy English.
 

cascadeco

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sp/sx
Precisely, to be concerned with immaterial things for personal health is a typycal self-pres thing, Sx are concerned with the emmaterial to feel intense.

Well yes, this is part of my whole point. That sp does not equate to only material things - it's the whole self. So to your original point, where you say misconception of Sp is that Sp is NOT about the self, it is instead about safety, that's really not true. Sure, it's a part of it, but sp is absolutely about the self and looking at all aspect of ones' own health/self - physical, emotional, spiritual, what have you; particular focus would probably be dependent on ennegram in combo with mbti.

If you're in agreement that sp is not just focusing on material things, then that's cool and I am in agreement as well. It's just that your various posts about sp in this thread and others really don't say this - you initially focus on pretty much only the material and safety aspects, and your initial examples tend to be people who are only focused on these material things, and very material 'successes'.
 

Thalassa

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Health is directly related to self preservation.

I think that's true, I'm sp aux and I think this is where my strong interest in health-related things and my cautious streak come from. I look at people cock-eyed when they say things like they forgot to bring lunch or some basic necessity like that.

But since I'm sx dom instead of sp I think I reveal myself psychologically and emotionally a lot more, and put myself way out there.

I can see a difference between myself and an sp dom, they seem more guarded and sometimes things like health and safety take priority to them above all things, to the point where it would bore me if I were like that.
 
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