Is Elfboy an S in disguise?

[Elfboy]

Are you aware of your Si at all as an NFP? Because you should have some resonance with it, I would think, even though you may be unconscious of because of your age.

Do you know what Si is? Can you tell me? Because I can explain it to you if you like.

I believe this website decribes it well

from cognitiveprocesses.com

ntroverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes

 

[Thalassa]

No no no...I've read Jung, I understand what Si is, in fact, I was able to identify as NFP rather than SFP because of my certainty of Si over Se more so than Ne over Ni.

I want you to explain to me in your own words what you think it is and how it manifests itself. Si seems to be one of the most misunderstood functions.

 

[Elfboy]

No no no...I've read Jung, I understand what Si is, in fact, I was able to identify as NFP rather than SFP because of my certainty of Si over Se more so than Ne over Ni.

I want you to explain to me in your own words what you think it is and how it manifests itself. Si seems to be one of the most misunderstood functions.

it seems to me like Si is an internal set of standards comparing everything against an ideal version of it. "that's not a REAL soprano" or "you can't call it christmas until you have a christmas tree" there seems to be a foundness for tradition, strong sense of duty, and desire for routine as well as potential glorification of the past "back in my day...."
I don't really understand it terribly well though, what do you think it is?

 

[Thalassa]

Yes and no. There is an idealistic aspect of it. Si is said to ascribe almost mythological feeling or definition to objects, like a clock or a train, not entirely differently than Ni, but Ni is aware that the thing is a symbol and attempts to deconstruct it and break it apart. Si on the other hand kind of...feels the symbol...for lack of a better word than feeling...they don't try to break it apart necessarily. The pink jacket is more than a pink jacket (which is what Se would see) the pink jacket represents a mood, a memory, a feeling, a thought, a way of being ...something intrinsic in the person's personal, subjective map of internal sensory impressions.

The Si mind is more linear and has a mind like a filing cabinet, collecting stored facts and past experiences. Si carefully studies new information before accepting it, because they have to process where it fits into their mental files. This can make them skeptical, or want to see proof, or be hesitant to debate without facts.

Si doesn't necessarily notice all details in the environment, though. They're just good with the details of what they care about. Si doms value depth of knowledge over breadth.

They also don't necessarily value broad social tradition, just the things that are meaningful specifically to their Si. Do you understand the difference? Liberal SJ isn't going to adhere to cultural conservative traditions just because they're SJ. They're going to adhere to what is meaningful in their own experience, their own past, their own family, etc.

Si doms also tend to be sensible, careful, and concerned with maintaining health, safety, and security.

Here is some evidence of Si in myself: I can cook certain things without having to follow a recipe, I just know this will be too much, etc. I have irrational emotional attachments to certain objects: my pink abercrombie hoodie, my pillow, etc. make me feel safe. I need some semblance of continuity to feel completely at ease, although I crave change and novelty.

Simulated World gave me this beautiful example which really resonated with me: An ISFP (who has Se) on the show Freaks and Geeks says she wishes she had never heard the new Greatful Dead album so she could hear it again like new, as though it were the first time.

A person with Si, on the other hand, would enjoy listening to music they deemed beautiful over and over again, gaining something with each time they listened. They don't have the same impulse like "oh I want to hear this like I've never heard it before." Part of the enjoyment of the experience comes from the sense of knowing the piece of music, having feelings or memories associated with that music, and discovering new things about it.


Here's something I posted last night in another thread about Si (sorry for any repetition):

Si is a subjective set of internal sensory impressions. Some examples of Si working in the real world, "This food doesn't taste right." You can cook (hypothetically) because you remember seemingly instinctively how to make your favorite meals without a recipe, and know exactly what is "missing" by tasting what you're making. You can tell if something is "off" and doesn't taste the way you know it "should" taste.

Or the picture is crooked. Or this film doesn't align with your particular standards of aesthetics. You may have a very particular preference for how music should sound or how art should look, or a particular flavor of wine you always drink.

You may also store past experiences and facts kind of like a filing cabinet in your mind, and retrieve them in a linear fashion.

Mostly though, Si is an internal set of subjective sensory impressions. It is not the same thing as strength of memory though it does rely on past experience.

Si doms may take great pleasure in knowing every single little detail about their favorite subject or chosen field. They will hesitate and examine new information carefully to see how it aligns with their internal filing cabinet data base.

Si can concern itself often with things like health, safety, and security.

Si related neuroses may manifest in the form of either A) fearing things will always be repetitively the same OR B) conversely, things will be an out-of-control threat to your safety/security/familiar way of being.

 

[Elfboy]

Yes and no. There is an idealistic aspect of it. Si is said to ascribe almost mythological feeling or definition to objects, like a clock or a train, not entirely differently than Ni, but Ni is aware that the thing is a symbol and attempts to deconstruct it and break it apart. Si on the other hand kind of...feels the symbol...for lack of a better word than feeling...they don't try to break it apart necessarily. The pink jacket is more than a pink jacket (which is what Se would see) the pink jacket represents a mood, a memory, a feeling, a thought, a way of being ...something intrinsic in the person's personal, subjective map of internal sensory impressions.

The Si mind is more linear and has a mind like a filing cabinet, collecting stored facts and past experiences. Si carefully studies new information before accepting it, because they have to process where it fits into their mental files. This can make them skeptical, or want to see proof, or be hesitant to debate without facts.

Si doesn't necessarily notice all details in the environment, though. They're just good with the details of what they care about. Si doms value depth of knowledge over breadth.

They also don't necessarily value broad social tradition, just the things that are meaningful specifically to their Si. Do you understand the difference? Liberal SJ isn't going to adhere to cultural conservative traditions just because they're SJ. They're going to adhere to what is meaningful in their own experience, their own past, their own family, etc.

Si doms also tend to be sensible, careful, and concerned with maintaining health, safety, and security.

Here is some evidence of Si in myself: I can cook certain things without having to follow a recipe, I just know this will be too much, etc. I have irrational emotional attachments to certain objects: my pink abercrombie hoodie, my pillow, etc. make me feel safe. I need some semblance of continuity to feel completely at ease, although I crave change and novelty.

Simulated World gave me this beautiful example which really resonated with me: An ISFP on the show Freaks and Geeks says she wishes she had never heard the new Greatful Dead album so she could hear it again like new, as though it were the first time.

A person with Si would enjoy listening to music they deemed beautiful over and over again, gaining something with each time they listened. They don't have the same impulse like "oh I want to hear this like I've never heard it before." Part of the enjoyment of the experience comes from the sense of knowing the piece of music, having feelings or memories associated with that music, and discovering new things about it.


Here's something I posted last night in another thread about Si (sorry for any repetition):

I believe it's somewhere in my first 4 functions (particularly the music reference) but not in the dominant or auxilary position. so it's an Si thing if you enjoy playing the same video games you did as a child, getting the same sandwhich at a particular restaurant or enjoying your favorite variety of tea? I definitely do this, but most of the time I prefer new experiences, older ones just happen to be more reliable because you know you'll like it. there's nothing worse than going out to eat for the first time in months and thinking "that was disgusting, I should have had the usual". generally I like to have a repertoir of reliable options, but mostly as a fall back in case non of the new options presented are favorable

 

[Thalassa]

I believe it's somewhere in my first 4 functions (particularly the music reference) but not in the dominant or auxilary position. so it's an Si thing if you enjoy playing the same video games you did as a child, getting the same sandwhich at a particular restaurant or enjoying your favorite variety of tea? I definitely do this, but most of the time I prefer new experiences, older ones just happen to be more reliable because you know you'll like it. there's nothing worse than going out to eat for the first time in months and thinking "that was disgusting, I should have had the usual". generally I like to have a repertoir of reliable options, but mostly as a fall back in case non of the new options presented are favorable

Yes, kind of like that. I get pissed if I something doesn't taste the way I expected it to, or if I don't like a new thing I have the same thing of wishing I had ordered something I knew I liked.

I think it can lend it itself to nostalgia in a way, too. Si isn't memory and all nostalgia isn't Si...but I'm sure my generation already has our version of "back in my day." That whole 80's thing? Grown women carrying My Little Pony lunchboxes as purses, playing Pac-Man, and dressing like their mom did when they were little I suspect is an Si thing.

I say this because I've shared my love of the 80's with two SJs who were also small children in the 1980's...and I know someone I suspect to be an INFJ, she's the same age as me, and she doesn't get the 80's thing at all, it annoys her, makes her cringe, she's just like "why god why."

And I just can't explain the pleasure of eating Blow-Pops, watching old MTV videos from 1982, and the thrill of even seeing commercials from my childhood. God, that's sad. I'm going to be in the nursing home humming the Colgate Pump Madness-rip-off commercial when I'm old. And you wonder why I'm so hostile to capitalism...lol.

 

[Elfboy]

I still don't think I'm an SJ, but I you've given me new reason to reconsider INFP

 

[Elfboy]

at this point in time, it looks like my function order is Ne=Fi > Te=Si. no wonder I wonder if I'm an introvert so much

 

[Elfboy]

I can see how Si would be hard to spot though. based on your description, it doesn't seem like Si has such a huge impact on one's personality the way Te and Se tend to. seems like an ESTJ and an ENTJ could easily be confused for each other

 

[Thalassa]

I can see how Si would be hard to spot though. based on your description, it doesn't seem like Si has such a huge impact on one's personality the way Te and Se tend to. seems like an ESTJ and an ENTJ could easily be confused for each other

What do you mean it doesn't have a huge impact on one's personality? It has an impact on my personality, and it has an even bigger impact on the personalities of SJs.

It just may be that you don't fully grasp it yet, and especially when seen behind the barrier of a super-strong function like Te...yeah, I can see what you mean about ExTJs.

But no, beyond that, no.

I'll be happy to cross-post here the way to tell an ENFJ from an ESFJ if you'd like, I posted it on a another site.

And of course...Si doms are unmistakably Si doms...

 

[Thalassa]

I lived with an ESFJ, was in a very intense close relationship with him for five years, so I can tell you that ESFJs nurture people in very practical, immediate ways. He would say things like "Are you comfortable sitting there? It's softer here" and "You've been drinking caffeine all day, you need to drink more water" and he would bring me a glass of water without me asking for it or agreeing to drink it. If we were sick, he would wash the bedding EVERY DAY we were sick in order "to kill the germs." I would wake up sometimes and he would be cleaning the house. I came home from work one night and he was scrubbing the bathroom. These were common occurances.

He was also very particular about eating foods he was familiar with and kind of afraid to try new foods, I would have to prompt him to do so. In order to make him happy, I would bring him things that I absolutely knew he liked, like candy he'd been eating since he was a kid.

Speaking of being a kid, he starting collecting horror films in his childhood, kept them listed and organized, and knew lots of details about the directors and genres.

HOWEVER he was not at all interested in any sort of deep analysis about the films. He cared about emotional impact, usage of color, and atmosphere rather than "message" or "meaning" usually. He sometimes told me I was overly analytical. He's a very intelligent ESFJ, too, very quick and witty and had very sophisticated taste in music and film, is kind of snobby about his films, too. He just doesn't give a rats ass about theory, and it kind of annoys him.

My ENFJ sister, on the other hand, loves to analyze the problems of the world and psychoanalyze the people around her. She thinks about people in other countries and is very "politically correct." She really goes far with it, avoiding the cartoon Family Guy because she believes there are bad underlying messages in it 0_o. My ENFJ sister is every bit as "others centered" and nurturing as an ESFJ, but it's in a more ... analytical way, and not always as practical. In fact, sometimes she can neglect practical things to the point of it seeming inconsiderate. But she's extremely supportive and considers herself kind of the "family referree" who wants everyone to get along.

I know these are only two examples, but I hope this helps make the distinction clearer.

k

 

[onemoretime]

I believe it's somewhere in my first 4 functions (particularly the music reference) but not in the dominant or auxilary position. so it's an Si thing if you enjoy playing the same video games you did as a child, getting the same sandwhich at a particular restaurant or enjoying your favorite variety of tea? I definitely do this, but most of the time I prefer new experiences, older ones just happen to be more reliable because you know you'll like it. there's nothing worse than going out to eat for the first time in months and thinking "that was disgusting, I should have had the usual". generally I like to have a repertoir of reliable options, but mostly as a fall back in case non of the new options presented are favorable

Here's the thing - you can identify instances of Ne, you can identify instances of Fi. However, when presented with Si, it resonates, but you have trouble identifying it...

That's actually a pretty good sign that you're dealing with the dominant function, btw. It's so integrated into your sense of self, that reifying it seems weird and unnatural somehow. It's there, but it's just that its workings are so omnipresent that you can't tell the difference.

Ne is supposed to be about "looking for possibilities" and "hidden meanings". I can honestly say that I've never engaged in either of these activities consciously with any success at any point in my life. However, things just seem to pop up, or the way something is placed hits me in a certain way, or a certain thought will meander through my head and unleash a torrent.

 

[Thalassa]

Here's the thing - you can identify instances of Ne, you can identify instances of Fi. However, when presented with Si, it resonates, but you have trouble identifying it...

That's actually a pretty good sign that you're dealing with the dominant function, btw. It's so integrated into your sense of self, that reifying it seems weird and unnatural somehow. It's there, but it's just that its workings are so omnipresent that you can't tell the difference.

Ne is supposed to be about "looking for possibilities" and "hidden meanings". I can honestly say that I've never engaged in either of these activities consciously with any success at any point in my life. However, things just seem to pop up, or the way something is placed hits me in a certain way, or a certain thought will meander through my head and unleash a torrent.

Oh yeah totally agreed. I have this blind spot with Ne.

 

[Elfboy]

Here's the thing - you can identify instances of Ne, you can identify instances of Fi. However, when presented with Si, it resonates, but you have trouble identifying it...

That's actually a pretty good sign that you're dealing with the dominant function, btw. It's so integrated into your sense of self, that reifying it seems weird and unnatural somehow. It's there, but it's just that its workings are so omnipresent that you can't tell the difference.

Ne is supposed to be about "looking for possibilities" and "hidden meanings". I can honestly say that I've never engaged in either of these activities consciously with any success at any point in my life. However, things just seem to pop up, or the way something is placed hits me in a certain way, or a certain thought will meander through my head and unleash a torrent.

actually, I can agree with this too. ideas will come to me if I look at information, but if I try to "make" the ideas come or try deliberately to come up with ideas, I fail miserably.

 

[Thalassa]

actually, I can agree with this too. ideas will come to me if I look at information, but if I try to "make" the ideas come or try deliberately to come up with ideas, I fail miserably.

I hate when people instruct me to "brainstorm." But then when they don't tell me to, they're trying to get me to stay on-topic because I'm jumping around.

You cannot command the Ne.

 

[Elfboy]

I hate when people instruct me to "brainstorm." But then when they don't tell me to, they're trying to get me to stay on-topic because I'm jumping around.

You cannot command the Ne.

I'm with you there. my INTJ friend has this ability to "force" creativity and innovation whenever he needs it, an ability of which I am most envious. I'm not really sure if it's Fi or Ne that's less "under my command" but I do go into an Fi-Si loop a lot.

 

[onemoretime]

actually, I can agree with this too. ideas will come to me if I look at information, but if I try to "make" the ideas come or try deliberately to come up with ideas, I fail miserably.

I'm shocked.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'm shocked.

*notes that onemoretime may have just realised that you can say 2 entirely opposing things to an ENFP and they will agree that both apply to them 100%*

*Laughs heartily*

The only thing they won't agree with: 'I sometimes act or appear inconsistent with my values.'

 

[Elfboy]

*notes that onemoretime may have just realised that you can say 2 entirely opposing things to an ENFP and they will agree that both apply to them 100%*

*Laughs heartily*

The only thing they won't agree with: 'I sometimes act or appear inconsistent with my values.'

it's true, especially if they are contextual. perhaps the opposing things are both true at different times/situations (which, if you're dealing with an ENFP, is very likely)

 

[InvisibleJim]

it's true, especially if they are contextual. perhaps the opposing things are both true at different times/situations (which, if you're dealing with an ENFP, is very likely)

It's okay, we don't blame you.