Is Elfboy an S in disguise?

[Hate]

^That's probably his Fi; he wants to be in charge so that he can command and correct peoples mistakes, and he hates being beneath the rule of others; he sees himself as better thus he should be the leader of others.

Actually no, it's not, it's called being a hypocrite.

 

[Elfboy]

What's up with all this "correcting people?" ... Below you claim that's what you hate most.

social protocol and rules =/= manners and consideration (especially because most of the times I corrected people had to do with them negatively impacting me in some way), but I did stop this behavior later in life because I hated when people did it to me.

 

[onemoretime]

My Fi doesn't make me think I'm pretentious. It provides the compass from which I guide my star.

This is good. This is important.

Introverted judgment is indeed a compass. You orient yourself with it, and only need to know that the needle points north and south to do so. When you listen to it, you know whether the way you're going in is consistent with what is important to you, or whether you've been heading in the wrong direction. It serves as a crucial check when exploring the unknown, by providing reference points for later use. Its referential value is thus internal. The judgment it provides is raw and only tangential to the environment itself, but it is detailed and true nonetheless.

Extraverted judgment is a map. It works backwards from the compass. A map is of little use without comparing its reference points to those in the external world. Once you have those, however, you then know where you are, and what you must do to get somewhere. A map reduces the uncertainty in a journey, making the unknown familiar. Its referential value is thus external. The judgment it provides is concrete and analogous to the environment itself, but it also sacrifices detail, and may be incorrect or out of date.

Extraverted perception calibrates the compass, while introverted perception constructs the map.

 

[Thalassa]

Manners are social protocol. Mary Poppins Victorian manners are like the epitome of Fe, bro.

 

[Elfboy]

In another post, he did seem to want to identify himself with the "King" archetype.

actually, I identified most with the Priest archtype

oddly enough, the one that sounds most like me is the priest, at least the charismatic visionary/moral crusader type. got a lot of King in me too though

 

[Elfboy]

Needing to be in control/having a lust for leadership (as a thing unto itself). Not a big fan of wherever it comes from.

I don't have a lust for control/leadership. I am opposed to controlling people (I am libertarian after all), but I am willing to use considerable force in keeping people from controlling me. this is not the same thing. however, if forced to make the choice between master and slave, I choose master any day of the week (this really doesn't happen to me though. usually I just get people to back the fuck off)

 

[Elfboy]

Manners are social protocol. Mary Poppins Victorian manners are like the epitome of Fe, bro.

actually, Mary Poppins is ESTJ and caring for manners is not exclusively Fe (many STJs in particular place huge value on manners and respect. they are concepts and ideals, not social protocol ). and social protocol and manners are different. manners is being considerate and respectful, social protocol are a host of socially imposed traditions with virtually no meaningful value.

 

[Thalassa]

actually, Mary Poppins is ESTJ and caring for manners is not exclusively Fe (many STJs in particular place huge value on manners and respect. they are concepts and ideals, not social protocol ). and social protocol and manners are different. manners is being considerate and respectful, social protocol are a host of socially imposed traditions with virtually no meaningful value.

Manners are social protocol. They're a set of defined ways of behavior to promote social harmony. Manners can be reduced to meaningless words and gestures without the genuine feeling behind them. If that's not Fe, I'll eat my fucking hat.

Yes, sometimes Te/Si wants things to be "proper" because of the need for structure, control, and tradition. These things make life easier for Te/Si because it can make things go efficiently (even if there's zero feeling behind the motions).

There are many ways to be considerate or respectful without having a certain set of highly defined manners.

I'm pretty sure Mary Poppins is ExFJ. The father in Mary Poppins is an STJ.

 

[Elfboy]

Manners are social protocol. They're a set of defined ways of behavior to promote social harmony. Manners can be reduced to meaningless words and gestures without the genuine feeling behind them. If that's not Fe, I'll eat my fucking hat.

Yes, sometimes Te/Si wants things to be "proper" because of the need for structure, control, and tradition. These things make life easier for Te/Si because it can make things go efficiently (even if there's zero feeling behind the motions).

There are many ways to be considerate or respectful without having a certain set of highly defined manners.

I'm pretty sure Mary Poppins is ExFJ. The father in Mary Poppins is an STJ.

there is nothing ESFJ about Mary Poppins
1) all her arguments are completely rational and logical
2) she's directing, not informing
3) her vibe is cool and collected, not warm and accomodating
4) she is polite and respectful, but very proper

PS: what you've defined is etiquette, not manners. the 2 are different.

 

[Thalassa]

there is nothing ESFJ about Mary Poppins
1) all her arguments are completely rational and logical
2) she's directing, not informing
3) her vibe is cool and collected, not warm and accomodating
4) she is polite and respectful, but very proper

PS: what you've defined is etiquette, not manners. the 2 are different.

Mary Poppins is ENFJ, even, I've decided. She's very warm and accomodating for a Victorian woman, and furthermore, her entire goal is to bring children closer to their parents. What an ENFJ task to undertake. Her entire purpose in life is to make people's relationships stronger by using magic, silly words, and good manners.

ExFJ *is* directing. ExFPs is informing.

You seem to be confused.

 

[onemoretime]

social protocol and rules =/= manners and consideration (especially because most of the times I corrected people had to do with them negatively impacting me in some way), but I did stop this behavior later in life because I hated when people did it to me.

You're an ESFP. Your judgment of things is very tied to external appearance.

Those were your opposing personality and senex SiFe shadow complexes at play. You said it yourself - those came about in response to others being negative. You opposed through citing rules of social behavior, standing assured that the other person's behavior was deviant, and that you played the role of a learned archetype in the process. Shadow NiFe would look far more paranoid and avoidant, and assume that the other person was a lost cause, rather than a child who needed to learn from the superior.

When the same rules of social behavior are cited to you, it feels like you're being browbeaten by an unpleasant old person who's pulling rank on you. When you matured and changed, that was your Fi acting in its caring parental role, gently correcting your behavior.

 

[Elfboy]

Mary Poppins is ENFJ, even, I've decided. She's very warm and accomodating for a Victorian woman, and furthermore, her entire goal is to bring children closer to their parents. What an ENFJ task to undertake. Her entire purpose in life is to make people's relationships stronger by using magic, silly words, and good manners.

ExFJ *is* directing. ExFPs is informing.
You seem to be confused.

bold: I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. within each of the 4 Keirsey Temperaments (SJ, SP, NF, NT) there are 2 directing types and 2 informing types

STJs are directing, SFJs are informing
STPs are directing, SFPs are informing
NFJs are directing, NFPs are informing
NTJs are directing, NTPs are informing
essentially, STs and NJs are informing, SFs and NPs are directing

 

[Elfboy]

You're an ESFP. Your judgment of things is very tied to external appearance.

Those were your opposing personality and senex SiFe shadow complexes at play. You said it yourself - those came about in response to others being negative. You opposed through citing rules of social behavior, standing assured that the other person's behavior was deviant, and that you played the role of a learned archetype in the process. Shadow NiFe would look far more paranoid and avoidant, and assume that the other person was a lost cause, rather than a child who needed to learn from the superior.

When the same rules of social behavior are cited to you, it feels like you're being browbeaten by an unpleasant old person who's pulling rank on you. When you matured and changed, that was your Fi acting in its caring parental role, gently correcting your behavior.

possible, but it doesn't explain how my Ne is excellent and my Se sucks (believe me, I could use a LOT of it lol)

 

[Thalassa]

I just said she was an ENFJ. Furthermore, I think Mrs. Banks is ENFP and Mr. Banks is ISTJ.

Why would an ISTJ need an ESTJ to come in and teach him to love his own children?

Good lord, Elfboy. Sure, I know a bunch of ESTJs who carry around magic bottomless carpetbags and fly through the air with an umbrella, making up words, and admonishing the children to feel sorry for the homeless lady and feed the birds.

You're so silly.

 

[Elfboy]

Mary Poppins is ENFJ, even, I've decided. She's very warm and accomodating for a Victorian woman, and furthermore, her entire goal is to bring children closer to their parents. What an ENFJ task to undertake. Her entire purpose in life is to make people's relationships stronger by using magic, silly words, and good manners.

ExFJ *is* directing. ExFPs is informing.

You seem to be confused.

if you wish to discuss Mary Poppin's type, we should probably make a thread, but currently the more pressing matter is that you seem to be under the impression that there is something wrong with me for not liking most people. it is this matter that I wish to have settled and fully understand where you're coming from

 

[Elfboy]

I just said she was an ENFJ. Furthermore, I think Mrs. Banks is ENFP and Mr. Banks is ISTJ.

Why would an ISTJ need an ESTJ to come in and teach him to love his own children?

Good lord, Elfboy. Sure, I know a bunch of ESTJs who carry around magic bottomless carpetbags and fly through the air with an umbrella, making up words, and admonishing the children to feel sorry for the homeless lady and feed the birds.

You're so silly.

you actually said this

ExFJ *is* directing. ExFPs is informing.

the part I bolded in order to emphasize the disagreement I was pointing out was here

 

[Elfboy]

I just said she was an ENFJ. Furthermore, I think Mrs. Banks is ENFP and Mr. Banks is ISTJ.

Why would an ISTJ need an ESTJ to come in and teach him to love his own children?

Good lord, Elfboy. Sure, I know a bunch of ESTJs who carry around magic bottomless carpetbags and fly through the air with an umbrella, making up words, and admonishing the children to feel sorry for the homeless lady and feed the birds.

You're so silly.

because it had nothing to do with type. Mr. Banks was not giving his children proper attention. Mary Poppins taught him that this was important. George Banks was also a 1 who integrated to 7 by the end (basically she got him to loosen up).

 

[Thalassa]

Everything about Mary Poppins screams ENFJ. I mean, seriously bro. I think an ESTJ would have better things to do than dance around with cartoon penguins and have tea in the air.

 

[Thalassa]

but currently the more pressing matter is that you seem to be under the impression that there is something wrong with me for not liking most people.

No, I said you were immature and living in a fantasy world, and this "shooing people away" thing seemed not-very-ENFP, but then you clarified what you meant by that, and that you just meant you don't like being imposed on to do particular things, and that's different.

 

[Elfboy]

Everything about Mary Poppins screams ENFJ. I mean, seriously bro. I think an ESTJ would have better things to do than dance around with cartoon penguins and have tea in the air.

not to be rude, but I'm through discussing this on this thread. if you post a thread about mary poppins, I will be happy to pay it a visit it at a later date