4w5 or 5w4

[chickpea]

i've thought i was a 4 for a long time, and have always tested as 4, but lately i've been leaning more and more towards 5. . my mom put the idea in my head when she read one of my enneagram books and she insisted that i was definitely a 5. it's so hard for me to decide though because i relate a lot to both and either way i have a very heavy wing.

so you all should ask me some questions to help me figure it out

 

[Mal12345]

Self- and other-perception are very different things. I have however seen a lot of undifferentiated personality trait reporting since I came to this forum. That is perhaps one reason for their coming here. The assumption is that everybody has to be a single type, when this is not necessarily the case.

Riso has the most complete description of the 9 enneatypes. The key motivations of the types should provide some strict standards for identifying your type, if possible. So my question is: which of Riso's key motivators describes you best?

type 4: "Want to be themselves, to express themselves in something beautiful, to find the ideal partner, to withdraw to protect their feelings, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else."

type 5: "Want to be capable and confident, to master a body of knowledge and skill, to explore reality, to remain undisturbed by others, to reduce their needs."

Edit: Riso also has this to say on the issue of typing the Four: "It is important to note that most of these [Four] personality traits function by negation. Fours may not know who they are, but they certainly believe they know who they are not."

 

[Speed Gavroche]

4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.

4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.

 

[Mal12345]

4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.

I'm not criticizing your point at all, I just want to point out that the latter describes the Fi. The Fi has intense yet private emotions and therefore wishes to stamp out any sign of strong emotion in others. I don't know if that's true of the type 4.

4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.

Again, I don't know if that's typical of 4s or of the INFP in general, whether that INFP is a type 4, 5, 6, or 9...

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I'm not criticizing your point at all, I just want to point out that the latter describes the Fi. The Fi has intense yet private emotions and therefore wishes to stamp out any sign of strong emotion in others. I don't know if that's true of the type 4.

Not necessarly. Fi is just a way of judging thing and take decision, nor necessarly intense.

Again, I don't know if that's typical of 4s or of the INFP in general, whether that INFP is a type 4, 5, 6, or 9...

It's typycal of 4. INFPs are not necessarly like that. Being INFP just mean you are I, N, F and P, that's all.

 

[chickpea]

Self- and other-perception are very different things. I have however seen a lot of undifferentiated personality trait reporting since I came to this forum. That is perhaps one reason for their coming here. The assumption is that everybody has to be a single type, when this is not necessarily the case.

Riso has the most complete description of the 9 enneatypes. The key motivations of the types should provide some strict standards for identifying your type, if possible. So my question is: which of Riso's key motivators describes you best?

type 4: "Want to be themselves, to express themselves in something beautiful, to find the ideal partner, to withdraw to protect their feelings, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else."

type 5: "Want to be capable and confident, to master a body of knowledge and skill, to explore reality, to remain undisturbed by others, to reduce their needs."

Edit: Riso also has this to say on the issue of typing the Four: "It is important to note that most of these [Four] personality traits function by negation. Fours may not know who they are, but they certainly believe they know who they are not."

4:
want to be themselves: definitely
express themselves in something beautiful: i love and appreciate beautiful things, but i'm more of an observer than a creator. i like relating myself to things other people have created, but not doing it myself as much.
find the ideal partner: yes , although i think even if i found him i'd probably find something wrong with him and keep doubting it
withdraw to protect their feelings: yes i have a few memories i think about all the time to make myself feel a certain way, and i never share them with anyone else
take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else: mostly, sometimes i get over or forget about things surprisingly fast though

5
be capable and confident: well.. i'd love to be either of those things but don't think i am at all.
master a body of knowledge or skill: i know a lot about a few things, wouldn't consider myself a master of anything. but i definitely like being able to know what i'm talking about before i do
explore reality: yes, i feel like i'm studying life instead of living it sometimes
remain undisturbed by others: vast majority of people, yes
reduce their needs: i hate feeling needy, and whenever i do i try my best to stop it. i have a weird relationship with dependency because i really don't want it at all, but sometimes feel like i can't take care of myself and i need it.

and i very much identify with being able to say what i'm not, or what i dislike a lot easier than describing who i am.

 

[chickpea]

4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.

4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.

i do intensify my emotions, but i am not public about them at all and feel the strongest by myself, after i've had time to process exactly what and why i'm feeling how i am. i've occasionally started drama, but when i see other people's i think it's hilarious and feel like they look irrational and stupid.

theres a few people i go between idealizing and hating but i'm completely apathetic towards most.

couldn't being sx make me seem more 4 than i am?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

4 value above all self-expression, self-awareness, they value and amplify their melancoly, when they have a 5 wing, they can be detached and public, and reserve their energy. 5s value above all self-control, objectivity, and disdain dram as a weakness. The 4 wing lean them to have some degree of oniric emphase and to romantize their difference and solitude. I think we can easily differentiate them. 4s also, are very self aware about their feelings, and over identify with them, 5s consider feelings as something artificial and invasive and have difficulty to resent them and feel them.

You can possibly be Sx, but I have no clue so far.

 

[chickpea]

i meant that i know for sure that i'm sx/sp, and from what i've read we have a lot of the love/hate push/pull characteristics that 4's are supposed to have.

i don't know.. i'd lean a little bit towards 5 from what you're saying, but i still see a lot of myself in both. i do find my feelings a weakness, and a burden sometimes, but i'm still very aware of them and purposely put myself or keep myself in certain negative moods. around other people though, i'm very self controlled. i never raise my voice at people, and the more heated a situation gets i tend to get overly cool-headed and rational because i see big public emotional scenes as embarrassing. one thing really prefer 5 over 4 with is the childhood pattern, i didn't feel rejected by my parents but i distanced myself from them on my own. my mother is extremely emotional and has a bad temper, and i think i tried to make myself the opposite from a young age. i never really yell at people or get confrontational, i'm pretty passive-aggressive when i'm upset about something.