BAM!

[Magic Poriferan]

Lots and lots of practical examples of Si in use in comparison to Se in use. I've read the theoretical description of Si many times and I just couldn't relate to it.

I'll keep that in mind.

btw, do you know any websites that describes the enneagram types WITH their wings?

Try these two.

http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennprimer/fineenn9styls1.html#anchor101902
http://www.mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/2/2.html

Lots of mumbo jumbo in there, though. Of course, that's why I ended up remodeling the Enneagram into a nearly unrecognizable system. Tired of all the flaky mumbo jumbo.

 

[Riva]

I guess that settles it.

I feel pretty confident that at this point no one here would say I'm ISFP.

It's funny because all my friends IRL all think I'm extrovert. I can now assure them that I am slightly expressed introvert.

I always mistake the ISFJ girls in my life to be extroverts. Sometimes I confuse them to be ESFPs.

 

[Giggly]

I always mistake the ISFJ girls in my life to be extroverts. Sometimes I confuse them to be ESFPs.

Good to know I'm not alone. Maybe theirs is due to enneagram like me. I got ESFP the first time I took the MBTI test but after reading more about the enneagram I think that was because I'm 2w3 Sx, even though I have good use of Fi and Se.

 

[A window to the soul]

I read the entire thread and I'm at a loss. There were a lot of great questions, but I had a hard time translating your responses. Overall, you have a very warm, pleasant personality and a mature vibe (not grandma, just motherly ; D). I see more Fe than Fi.

 

[Giggly]

Thanks for the feedback, Nerd Girl.

I know that according to the theory Fi /Fe are completely different functions but I struggle with seeing much of a difference between the two. For all the Fe that I and others think I have, I know that those feelings always come from within or internally, so I don't really see the difference in the two.

But yeah I do notice that compared to other people, I seem to focus on others more than on myself so I guess I use Fe more than Fi. I would not call myself selfless though because my sense of fairness and balance will eventually kick in.

 

[amerellis]

ISFP

 

[Giggly]

ISFP

Really? Why do you think ISFP?

 

[Thalassa]

Thanks for the feedback, Nerd Girl.

I know that according to the theory Fi /Fe are completely different functions but I struggle with seeing much of a difference between the two. For all the Fe that I and others think I have, I know that those feelings always come from within or internally, so I don't really see the difference in the two.

But yeah I do notice that compared to other people, I seem to focus on others more than on myself so I guess I use Fe more than Fi. I would not call myself selfless though because my sense of fairness and balance will eventually kick in.

You've always seemed very Fe to me, the warmth, the focus on others, even that sense of fairness you have to hear all members of the group.

I don't think you have to be selfless entirely to be an Fe type, in fact completely selflessness might not be healthy (i.e. doormat). Plus people can use Fe to selfish ends (but you don't seem to at all, I'm just saying in general).

 

[Mal12345]

This seriously may be the last straw in me deciding that the MBTI as it currently exists is totally inscrutable.

Or perhaps the two systems don't meet eye to eye. Extraversion and introversion don't mean the same thing at all in the respective systems. Extraversion is a cognitive attitude for Jung, but for Myers it is a set of behaviors. Nor does Jung have a J or a P in his system. And Jungian functions cannot be tested for introversion and extraversion alone, they don't exist "per se" but only in terms of functions.

For example, Fi-dom does not mean introverted in MBTI terms. You probably are introverted, but the terms are not used synonymously.

The huge conceptual gap between the two systems is obscured by the fact that they use very similar terminology.

If Giggly scored ISFP on the professional MBTI, then it is what it is. But that doesn't directly mean anything about her Jungian function type. In other words, I wouldn't decide merely based on this result that Giggly is a Jungian Fi-dom Se-aux. On the other hand, I wouldn't throw away the ISFP score because of these dissimilarities.

 

[Mal12345]

You've always seemed very Fe to me, the warmth, the focus on others, even that sense of fairness you have to hear all members of the group.

Last I heard, "warmth" and "focus on others" and "fairness to hear all members of the group" did not necessarily amount to Fe traits.

 

[LadyJaye]

I definitely feel a lot of Fe from you. I think ISFJ is right, and frankly, if you resonate with it, then I think that's a pretty good indication that you've found the right one.


Also: I motorboat in your boobies.

 

[Owfin]

I wish I knew what Si was. I still don't really understand it.

Si is taking models (model=a description of a system using certain concepts and language) and building systems (system=a set of interacting or interdependent components forming an integrated whole) using models as the foundation.

 

[Giggly]

Or perhaps the two systems don't meet eye to eye. Extraversion and introversion don't mean the same thing at all in the respective systems. Extraversion is a cognitive attitude for Jung, but for Myers it is a set of behaviors. Nor does Jung have a J or a P in his system. And Jungian functions cannot be tested for introversion and extraversion alone, they don't exist "per se" but only in terms of functions.

For example, Fi-dom does not mean introverted in MBTI terms. You probably are introverted, but the terms are not used synonymously.

The huge conceptual gap between the two systems is obscured by the fact that they use very similar terminology.

If Giggly scored ISFP on the professional MBTI, then it is what it is. But that doesn't directly mean anything about her Jungian function type. In other words, I wouldn't decide merely based on this result that Giggly is a Jungian Fi-dom Se-aux. On the other hand, I wouldn't throw away the ISFP score because of these dissimilarities.

I didn't know this, thank you.

Last I heard, "warmth" and "focus on others" and "fairness to hear all members of the group" did not necessarily amount to Fe traits.

What are Fe traits?

 

[Mal12345]

I didn't know this, thank you.



What are Fe traits?

The basics of Fe, and all 8 functions, are on the Socionics page at Wikipedia.

If your first Enneagram tri-type is 2, then that corresponds well with Fe. ISFP works betters with your second tri-type which is 9, especially 9w8.

If you are Fe-dom then I'd expect you to be extroverted, but not necessarily. It would be interesting to know your APS score: supine, etc.

 

[Giggly]

Took another test at work today. The results were somewhat disappointing because I had hoped to test as ISFJ, since the woman who had the position before me tested as ISFJ, and everyone loved her to death. Still, the results are not surprising, since I know that I always test as borderline I/E and J/P.

Percentage breakdown of your results:

Extraverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%

Sensing (S) 86% Intuitive (N) 14%

Feeling (F) 85% Thinking (T) 15%

Perceiving (P) 55% Judging (J) 45%

ESFP – Performers and Entertainers

Career relevant traits:
• Excited and stimulated by new experiences.
• Know how to have a good time, and how to make things fun for others
• Independent, practical and resourceful
• Spontaneous seldom plan ahead
• Strongly dislike routine and structure
• Feel a close bond with animals and children
• Highly developed aesthetic appreciation for things
• Excellent people skills

You have very strong inter-personal skills, and may find yourself often in the role of the peacemaker. Generous and warm, and with your personal values, you are probably very sympathetic and concerned for other other´s well being. You are very observant about other people, and seem to sense what is wrong with someone before others might, responding warmly with a solution to a practical need. Perhaps you may not always give the best advice, because you don’t like theory and future-planning, but you are great for giving practical care.
As an ESFP, you are good at many things, but will not be happy unless you have a lot of contact with people and many new experiences. You should choose careers which provide you with the opportunity to use your great people skills and practical perspective, which provides you with enough new challenges so you are not bored.
As an ESFP you are a great team player. You are not likely to create any problems or fuss, and are likely to create the most fun environment possible for completing any job. You will do best in careers in which you are able to use your excellent people skills, along with your abilities to meld ideas into structured formats. Being a fast-paced individual who likes new experiences, you should select careers which offer or need a lot of diversity, as well as people skills.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The basics of Fe, and all 8 functions, are on the Socionics page at Wikipedia.

I seem to remember a certain someone telling me Socionics was bogus.

Socionics is bogus. I hope people quote this in the future, because this will be my position until the end of time!

But yeah I do notice that compared to other people, I seem to focus on others more than on myself so I guess I use Fe more than Fi. I would not call myself selfless though because my sense of fairness and balance will eventually kick in.

Fe/Ti. I don't know that Fi measures things in terms of fairness. Perhaps I'm wrong, though. A lot of them seem to find something really odd, annoying and robotic about my sense of fairness, in my experience.

I'd say I'm the opposite. I would not call myself selfish because at the end of it all, I end up thinking about what others need. But all too often, people do not appreciate things done for other people if it is not advertised. This is why I will not consider myself selfless, and why I do not aspire to selflessness. You're supposed to advertise and sell your charitableness. But doing something with the intention of other people seeing it is beside the point. (Although, it would be nice if they did not assume I am selfish just because I do not brag about my selflessness.) I don't know... I think I'm not making sense here and am stuck in some weird inferior stuff.

 

[Mal12345]

I seem to remember a certain someone telling me Socionics was bogus.

And the basics of Fe and all 8 types are on the Socionics page at Wikipedia.

 

[Mal12345]

Took another test at work today. The results were somewhat disappointing because I had hoped to test as ISFJ, since the woman who had the position before me tested as ISFJ, and everyone loved her to death. Still, the results are not surprising, since I know that I always test as borderline I/E and J/P.

Percentage breakdown of your results:

Extraverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%

Sensing (S) 86% Intuitive (N) 14%

Feeling (F) 85% Thinking (T) 15%

Perceiving (P) 55% Judging (J) 45%

ESFP – Performers and Entertainers

Career relevant traits:
• Excited and stimulated by new experiences.
• Know how to have a good time, and how to make things fun for others
• Independent, practical and resourceful
• Spontaneous seldom plan ahead
• Strongly dislike routine and structure
• Feel a close bond with animals and children
• Highly developed aesthetic appreciation for things
• Excellent people skills

You have very strong inter-personal skills, and may find yourself often in the role of the peacemaker. Generous and warm, and with your personal values, you are probably very sympathetic and concerned for other other´s well being. You are very observant about other people, and seem to sense what is wrong with someone before others might, responding warmly with a solution to a practical need. Perhaps you may not always give the best advice, because you don’t like theory and future-planning, but you are great for giving practical care.
As an ESFP, you are good at many things, but will not be happy unless you have a lot of contact with people and many new experiences. You should choose careers which provide you with the opportunity to use your great people skills and practical perspective, which provides you with enough new challenges so you are not bored.
As an ESFP you are a great team player. You are not likely to create any problems or fuss, and are likely to create the most fun environment possible for completing any job. You will do best in careers in which you are able to use your excellent people skills, along with your abilities to meld ideas into structured formats. Being a fast-paced individual who likes new experiences, you should select careers which offer or need a lot of diversity, as well as people skills.

You were 50/50 extroverted and introverted. That's a problem for the testing method.

My test is better.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

And the basics of Fe and all 8 types are on the Socionics page at Wikipedia.

I seem to remember a certain someone telling me Socionics was bogus.

 

[Mal12345]

I seem to remember a certain someone telling me Socionics was bogus.

Show me where Socionics changed anything crucial about JCF.