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Enneagram 4w5 or 5w4?

S

Sniffles

Guest
I dunno, I've always wondered about this. I remember one Enneagram quiz rated me at around 81% for 5 but 79% for 4; which seems to indicate that whichever way I am I have a very strong wing as well - which adds to the confusion cause there's so much I can relate to in both types. I usually associate myself with Four in part because I could more easily identify with its integration and disintegration points, plus the general tendency for INFJs to be 4w5s.

So I'm just asking for others' suggestions or opinions. Do I seem more e4 or e5?
 

Viridian

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Well, while I don't know you personally very well, your posts have a distinct quality of detachment about them, in a positive way. My guess would be 5w4, possibly with a 9w1 or 1w9 in your tritype.

In fact, have you considered 1w9? Your former sig quote about human rights and human responsibilities gave me a strong One vibe. :)

Just my
VX4Fn.png
.
:cool:
 
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so/sp
Viridian, what's yours? Reminds me of how an sp/sx e91 infj friend presents himself.

Peguy, maybe verify one way or the other by visiting the e5 subsection on Personality Cafe?; it's swimming with infj 5s.
 

Viridian

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OTOH, I think INFJ for you is dead-on, Peguy. You have that "sage-like" aura that combines Ti's detachment and Fe's gentleness. :yes:
 

CuriousFeeling

From the Undertow
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Peguy, my general perception is that you have the 4w5 style romanticism over historical events and the downtrodden in those events. But, in order for me to make a valid conclusion about whether you are a 4w5 or 5w4, I need more information about how you respond to emotions. The marked difference between 4w5s and 5w4s is that 4w5s tend to have repressed feelings that they do not wish to express in front of others because they feel that they will be misunderstood; whereas the 5w4 tends to avoid emotions because they do not wish for their emotions to take control over them, more of a preference for using their minds and detaching from an emotional situation.

Which applies the most for you?
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Peguy, my general perception is that you have the 4w5 style romanticism over historical events and the downtrodden in those events. But, in order for me to make a valid conclusion about whether you are a 4w5 or 5w4, I need more information about how you respond to emotions. The marked difference between 4w5s and 5w4s is that 4w5s tend to have repressed feelings that they do not wish to express in front of others because they feel that they will be misunderstood; whereas the 5w4 tends to avoid emotions because they do not wish for their emotions to take control over them, more of a preference for using their minds and detaching from an emotional situation.

Which applies the most for you?

I would certainly have to say that I tend to shy away from expressing my emotions for fear of being misunderstood. I do fear my emotions taking control of me too, and try to detach myself from them as best I can with use of the mind. However I often notice one major concern in those situations is trying to understand my emotions rather than necessarily avoid them. I notice that when I understand my emotions is when I can best deal with them. If I can't understand them, well that just makes things worse.

I hope this helps.
 

CuriousFeeling

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I would certainly have to say that I tend to shy away from expressing my emotions for fear of being misunderstood. I do fear my emotions taking control of me too, and try to detach myself from them as best I can with use of the mind. However I often notice one major concern in those situations is trying to understand my emotions rather than necessarily avoid them. I notice that when I understand my emotions is when I can best deal with them. If I can't understand them, well that just makes things worse.

I hope this helps.

So in other words you tend to analyze your emotions and suppress them from being expressed out in the open. The fact your primary drive is to make sure your emotions are understood and a fear of vulnerability by expressing them, speaks more of a 4w5 trait. 5w4s would avoid emotions to avoid clouding their judgment, to make the most objective decision possible, use brains rather than the heart. Both are bookish and intellectual.

It could be likely you have a very heavy 5 wing, so it would give you more 5 traits.

Another way to bring this into perspective is to think of when you are studying a subject you enjoy... if you feel your heart tugging at you, getting excited and romanticizing the knowledge you are learning about; or conversely when learning about an unpleasant event in history causes a strong emotional reaction, you are more of a 4. A type 5 will tend to learn the information for knowledge's sake, but tend not to connect themselves personally to the events and people involved. They are passionate about the pursuit of knowledge.

If it is any reassurance, I stand at the cusp of 4w5 and 5w4 too, but the thing that reminds me that I am more of a 4 is the fact that I get more emotionally worked up whenever I am learning something new, and it tends to inspire me on an artistic/emotional level as well as on an intellectual level. I'll end up being deeply inspired and moved by a theory or knowledge that rings home to me, and will write about it, or end up looking for art and music that reflects it. I tend to avoid appearing too emotionally worked up about something because I don't want my feelings to be hurt. If I tone the emotions down, then I don't have to worry about my heart being broken. It's kind of a defense mechanism to cope with sensitivity.

Do you feel this is the case with you?
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
So in other words you tend to analyze your emotions and suppress them from being expressed out in the open. The fact your primary drive is to make sure your emotions are understood and a fear of vulnerability by expressing them, speaks more of a 4w5 trait. 5w4s would avoid emotions to avoid clouding their judgment, to make the most objective decision possible, use brains rather than the heart. Both are bookish and intellectual.

It could be likely you have a very heavy 5 wing, so it would give you more 5 traits.

Another way to bring this into perspective is to think of when you are studying a subject you enjoy... if you feel your heart tugging at you, getting excited and romanticizing the knowledge you are learning about; or conversely when learning about an unpleasant event in history causes a strong emotional reaction, you are more of a 4. A type 5 will tend to learn the information for knowledge's sake, but tend not to connect themselves personally to the events and people involved. They are passionate about the pursuit of knowledge.

If it is any reassurance, I stand at the cusp of 4w5 and 5w4 too, but the thing that reminds me that I am more of a 4 is the fact that I get more emotionally worked up whenever I am learning something new, and it tends to inspire me on an artistic/emotional level as well as on an intellectual level. I'll end up being deeply inspired and moved by a theory or knowledge that rings home to me, and will write about it, or end up looking for art and music that reflects it. I tend to avoid appearing too emotionally worked up about something because I don't want my feelings to be hurt. If I tone the emotions down, then I don't have to worry about my heart being broken. It's kind of a defense mechanism to cope with sensitivity.

Do you feel this is the case with you?
Is that the case with me? Oh yes. Whenever I read about some new theory or writer and thinker I can relate very much to, my spirit just literally soars to the sky, and my head begin to swim like all hell with excited thoughts - and I try to note down as much as I can in my notebooks(which is not always easy as thoughts are racing at light speed).

I'll have to come back to this as I'm rather preoccupied atm. But thank you, your posts have been very enlightening. :yes:
 

Viridian

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CuriousFeeling'a assessment seems spot on. :yes: I maintain my position that you have either a 9w1 or a 1w9 in your Gut Center, though.
 

CuriousFeeling

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Is that the case with me? Oh yes. Whenever I read about some new theory or writer and thinker I can relate very much to, my spirit just literally soars to the sky, and my head begin to swim like all hell with excited thoughts - and I try to note down as much as I can in my notebooks(which is not always easy as thoughts are racing at light speed).

I'll have to come back to this as I'm rather preoccupied atm. But thank you, your posts have been very enlightening. :yes:

Glad this could help. :)
 

Aquarelle

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Yeah, I think you're 4w5, Pegs. ;) CF's explanations were very insightful and sounded right on.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Several issues related to my enneagram type and especially my tritype have come up recently, so I figure I'd bump this to see if anybody has any fresh insights on the issue.

I certainly could see my tritype as 451 which is appropriately labelled the "researcher". 4w5 definitely, although I'm still pondering the possibility of 5w4 vs 5w6. As well as 1w2 or 1w9.

Thoughts?
 

small.wonder

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[MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] I have long agonized over the 4 vs. 5 conundrum because either way I have a heavy wing (I almost feel like half and half sometimes), so I can relate. I'd love to talk to you more if you are up for it, I grow weary sometimes because I don't know any other 4 + 5 folks IRL. :/

As to your type consideration, I see 5w6 and 4w5 as totally different animals, so I don't understand mistyping between the two. What makes you think you might be 5w6? The 1 question is common for 4's I think because we integrate towards those characteristics. The way I knew I didn't have a 1 fix though is that I only experience those tendencies in health (whereas I have 8 tendencies across the health spectrum).

If you are truly considering 1 as a core type, I think it's important to focus on the motivations, integration/disintegration, fears and passions. Are you more Angry or more Envious? Do you fear being wrong/bad, or not having a unique identity more? What does your reality look like under stress, and in health? I have a 1 friend who displays a lot of 4ish qualities because she's kind of unhealthy. :shrug:

Just a few thoughts.
 
S

Sniffles

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[MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] I have long agonized over the 4 vs. 5 conundrum because either way I have a heavy wing (I almost feel like half and half sometimes), so I can relate. I'd love to talk to you more if you are up for it, I grow weary sometimes because I don't know any other 4 + 5 folks IRL. :/

As to your type consideration, I see 5w6 and 4w5 as totally different animals, so I don't understand mistyping between the two. What makes you think you might be 5w6? The 1 question is common for 4's I think because we integrate towards those characteristics. The way I knew I didn't have a 1 fix though is that I only experience those tendencies in health (whereas I have 8 tendencies across the health spectrum).

If you are truly considering 1 as a core type, I think it's important to focus on the motivations, integration/disintegration, fears and passions. Are you more Angry or more Envious? Do you fear being wrong/bad, or not having a unique identity more? What does your reality look like under stress, and in health? I have a 1 friend who displays a lot of 4ish qualities because she's kind of unhealthy. :shrug:

Just a few thoughts.

Sure I'd be glad to discuss this further. :yes: The issue of 5w6 and type 1 are mostly related to my tritype. As I said I see myself certainly as a 451 in terms of tritype, but which exact form of 5 and 1 are the issues.

Judging from the different descriptions of given here between 1w2 and 1w9, I might relate more to 1w9. I might also relate more to 5w4 too. However, I'm always open to feedback from others.

Hope this helps.
 

small.wonder

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[MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] Ooooooh, sorry for my oversight. :doh: I think I sometimes forget that people assign wings and all that jazz to each aspect of their tritype! I have no idea which wing of 1 you would best fit, but for 5 it seems to me that 5w4 is the only option because we know that you already score higher in 4 than 6 (because you are a 4).
 

Forever_Jung

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I don't know you well, but you seem very 1w9 to me. Maybe it's the way you love history, maybe it's your very proper, contained manner. I'm not sure. You're very intellectual, but not like 5's are, IMO.
 
S

Sniffles

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I don't know you well, but you seem very 1w9 to me. Maybe it's the way you love history, maybe it's your very proper, contained manner. I'm not sure. You're very intellectual, but not like 5's are, IMO.

You mean 1w9 as my overall type or in my Tritype?

This is the best test that I've taken (enneacards). It was the first one to actually get my type correct.
Thanks. Although I see you need to pay for the results. :dry:

Peguy Ooooooh, sorry for my oversight. :doh: I think I sometimes forget that people assign wings and all that jazz to each aspect of their tritype! I have no idea which wing of 1 you would best fit, but for 5 it seems to me that 5w4 is the only option because we know that you already score higher in 4 than 6 (because you are a 4).
No worries. :) I can agree 5w4 would fit better than 5w6, based on my understanding of the difference between the two.
 

highlander

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You mean 1w9 as my overall type or in my Tritype?


Thanks. Although I see you need to pay for the results. :dry:


No worries. :) I can agree 5w4 would fit better than 5w6, based on my understanding of the difference between the two.

It's true but sometimes you get what you pay for.
 
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