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Is Such Irony an atypical INTP or something else? Vote please.

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    31

lunalum

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So far it seems like you are either INTP with tricky Fe or some sort of IxxJ, leaning toward INxJ. I wonder how common it really is to be INFJ with very well developed Ti...

I'm glad you gave a lot of information to work with though, you are simply one of many who is tricky to type.
 

Not_Me

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Any chance you're a shy ESFJ? I met a handful of relatively shy people who type themselves as the exact opposite of what everyone else think they are. I can't explain why, but I noticed a pattern.
 

Eric B

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In Malcontent's thread, when I mentioned the APS temperament system you had identified with Supine in Inclusion and to some extent Choleric in Control. This would seem to match INTP.

Both being a female, and being Supine, you would come out more sensitive and stereotypically F-like than the typical INTP. (Most INTP's are the more indifferent Phlegmatic in Inclusion, and T has become associated with masculinity anyway).

However, since ISFJ is being mentioned, and that you seemed to identify with the "independent" aspect of Choleric more than the aggressive part, then you could be a Melancholy in Control http://www.pastoral-counseling-center.org/Temperament-Area-of-Control/melancholy-control.pdf, which would be SJ. It has the same level of independence (not wanting interference) as the Choleric, but lacks the aggressiveness (unless they're enforcing someone else's rules). Supine Melancholy would be ISFJ, and very close in both temperament mix (behavior; especially for a female) and primary functions to an INTP.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
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In Malcontent's thread, when I mentioned the APS temperament system you had identified with Supine in Inclusion and to some extent Choleric in Control. This would seem to match INTP.

Both being a female, and being Supine, you would come out more sensitive and stereotypically F-like than the typical INTP. (Most INTP's are the more indifferent Phlegmatic in Inclusion, and T has become associated with masculinity anyway).

However, since ISFJ is being mentioned, and that you seemed to identify with the "independent" aspect of Choleric more than the aggressive part, then you could be a Melancholy in Control http://www.pastoral-counseling-center.org/Temperament-Area-of-Control/melancholy-control.pdf, which would be SJ. It has the same level of independence (not wanting interference) as the Choleric, but lacks the aggressiveness (unless they're enforcing someone else's rules). Supine Melancholy would be ISFJ, and very close in both temperament mix (behavior; especially for a female) and primary functions to an INTP.

Here's the melancholy in control description. Once again, I've bolded that parts that particularly fit me and italicized the parts that somewhat fit:

General description of people who are Melancholy in Control:
1. Expresses very little control over the lives and behaviors of others, and will not tolerate control over his/her life and behavior -- highly independent and strong-willed
2. Demands order, truth, reliability and dependability from himself/herself and others -- perfectionistic
3. Must appear competent and in control
4. Intellectually oriented -- needs facts, research, information -- when he/she has the necessary information, he/she must act upon it -- will follow individuals whom he/she knows to be intellectually superior (has respect for them as leaders)
5. May become anxious if anyone is his/her sole responsibility

Potential strengths which should be encouraged, used and developed:
1. Independent and self-motivated
2. Makes decisions very well and takes on responsibilities very well when dealing in areas with which he/she is familiar or an expert (areas previously dealt with)
3. Very good leadership capacity if allowed to move into unknown areas of responsibility at his/her own pace

Potential weaknesses which should be considered and dealt with:

(Reminder: people who are Melancholy tend to focus only on weaknesses because of their perfectionism -- don't forget your strengths, please!)
1. If pressured into making decisions or taking on responsibility in unknown areas (areas not previously dealt with), he/she tends to procrastinate. If this pressure continues, he/she will rebel and become angry, expressing this anger in ways learned in childhood. For example, if he/she observed adults expressing anger by throwing things, he/she will throw things.
2. Has self doubts -- when moving into unknown areas, needs time to build up self-confidence -- this is viewed by others as procrastination
3. Becomes angry if confronted for mistakes, criticized or made to look foolish
4. Tends to be legalistic, rigid and uncompromising
5. Becomes anxious if someone is his/her sole responsibility
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
Why tell you examples when others can prove my theory for me? ;)
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
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Since there are some who think I might be an S type, I thought it may be helpful to explain how I relate to the S and the N aspects:

Sensing:
*I've always preffered the exact to the approximate. Maybe its an INTP precision thing though.

*I have a good memory for past events and experiences. I identify alot with the Si description.

*I can be quite detail oriented. I am good at doing clerical type tasks like shelving books in their proper order at the library or spotting typos in documents. I also seem to be the one noticing the typos and when a book is misshelved.

*I prefer the literal to the figurative and like authors to just say what they mean. Saying what you mean eliminates misunderstandings. I have a hard time getting poetry because often I feel that the meaning isn't clear or it could be interpreted in multiple ways. I like it when its clear immediately what the meaning is.

*This relates more to SJ temperament than sensing per se, but I am very security oriented. I am very cautious and careful and would rather have a job that I know offers long-term security even if it wasn't my dream job than to have my dream job and constantly have to worry about whether or not I'd have a job next week.

*I'm future oriented but I've come to realize, it's really more of an SJ security seeking way. Really I just want long-term future security. For example, I don't smoke or drink today because I know what the long-term future implications of that can be. I don't overspend money today, so I know that I'll have money tomorrow. I make sure I've got enough saved for retirement even though that's more than 30 years away.

*I'm not likely to waste time on things I know are nearly impossible to achieve. I'd rather do things that bring a more immediate, short-term result than work on some long-term project where the payoff isn't so guaranteed.

*I don't need deeper meanings all the time in things. Sometimes I feel some of my tastes are shallow as a result. Sometimes I just want to watch a mindless sitcom than something really deep or philosophical. Same goes for books as well.

*I'm not all that interested in the mysterious, occult, or psychic phenomena. My brand of intuition is more down to earth- coming up with theories to explain everyday happenings.

*I prefer some realism in what I read. Overall I prefer non-fiction but do enjoy some fiction. I do like science fiction and fantasy but the books I like best in those genres have some element of realism to them. I want elements that I can relate to. If its too fantastical there isn't much with which I can relate.

*I remember one time at a type workshop, the presenter showed us a painting and we had to write down what we saw. What I said was very suggestive of sensing. My immediate instinct was to describe the specific objects and colors I saw in the painting rather than overall meaning or impression of it.


Intuition:

I often have strong hunches about things and am not afraid to act on those hunches. I often feel like something is just right or makes sense without having much solid factual evidence for it.

I am open to trying new things and new approaches. I am quick to discard traditions and methods that no longer hold up with time. I highly value innovation.

I am very theoretical and love theories and come up with alot of my own theories to explain phenomena. I am often less concerned with how these theories actuallly hold up in practice.

I love learning for its own sake and I don't need it to be for a practical purpose.

I often feel like I spend too much time pondering and philosophizing things than getting things done in the real world.

I am not very physically oriented. I don't absorb the physical details in my immediate environment like a sponge. I tend to selectively pay attention only to the parts that interest me and tend to ignore the rest. This could be suggestive of stronger Si than Se. I wait until the situation demands that I pay attention to those details before I notice them. For example, when working at a new workplace, I may not pay much attention to where certain desk supplies are like the hole punch until I have a need to use it myself or someone else asks me for it. Some people just naturally take in details indiscriminately whether they are personally useful to them or not. I'm definitely not one of those people. I also pay very little attention to details like the color of the carpet or what people are wearing. Since I pay such little attention to that, I can be very oblivious to things like trends in fashion which seem very obvious to just about everybody else.

In conversations, I'd much rather talk about the larger issues than small talk type stuff. I like talking about philosophical type things- The meaning of life, is there a God? What happened before the big bang? than stuff like the weather or how the sports teams are doing.

Physically I tend to be clumsy. Often this is because I'm so absorbed in my own thoughts that I'm not paying attention to my environment so I bump into things. I am lousy at sports. I may know in theory what techniques work best but can't seem to make them work in practice. I loved reading about science but hated the actual laboratory component of it.

I don't enjoy doing physical activities like crafts, gardening, or cooking that much. I don't enjoy the actual physical process of it but I do enjoy seeing the end result.

I question a great deal the conventions and common sense of society that so many people take for granted. Just because something has always been done that way doesn't mean its the best way. I'm all for out of the box thinking. However, while I value innovative thinking highly, I'm not sure I'm all that innovative myself in my thinking.

I'm always seeing different meanings and interpretations to things. Instructions and forms can be confusing because I'll see more than one way the statement could have been interpreted.

Alot of things that people take as common sense, I'm oblivious to. This can have embarrasing results.
 

Eric B

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Sounds like it could go either way between ISFJ and INTP.

However, as for S/N, the ISFJ is dominant S, inferior N, while the INTP is auxiliary N, tertiary S. unless you are middle-age, the inferior is likely to be very weak. So between those two types, the INTP is more likely to have S/N ambiguity (the tertiary often "inflates" itself a lot), while the ISFJ might have more T/F ambiguity, though I haven't really heard of any examples of this. You usually see this with INFJ's more. After all, they are drawn more to abstract discussions like type theory.

Is your interest in the theory more of an confident ego-preferred thing, for its own sake, or is it just something you are using in passing because you heard it was good for growth; or perhaps just for "relief"? The latter would be more a Sensor's perspective.
 

Arclight

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Being emotionally intelligent does not equal T or F.. I am happy to see you as an INTP with a sensitive side not so uncommon in INTP females and even a few males.
You are just a little less stoic than usual.
 

Such Irony

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Is your interest in the theory more of an confident ego-preferred thing, for its own sake, or is it just something you are using in passing because you heard it was good for growth; or perhaps just for "relief"? The latter would be more a Sensor's perspective.

Definitely the former. I'm happy to just sit around pondering the theory without having a strong need to put it to practical use.
 

BAJ

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Such Irony,

I was not sure where to reply, since there are two threads.

I do not know, but we seem to be a lot alike, at least by the comparison between F and T in the other thread.

I posted over at INTPc for years, and I made a few threads like this one. There was not as much feedback! Of course, mine are maybe not so well written.

I'm currently considering that I'm INFP for various complex reasons. Yet, some people have convincingly questioned whether I was really NT, so now I'm confused again.

Yet, the F descriptions you mentioned all apply to me as well: (1.) sensitivity to criticism (2.) need for harmony (3.) need for praise (4.) sensitivity to the old man's firing.

I don't want to derail with my own questions, but I'm confused by the notion that the strongest function for INTP, Ti is supposed to be the weakest for INFP. And the opposite: Fi is supposed to be the weakest for INTP, but strongest for INFP.

Worse, I can of course skew the test. I can put on either hat. Also, it seems, I start asking myself, "What would an INFP or INTP say to this question?", when I post.

I go back through all my life, and I think I had lots of Fi moments and Ti moments. If a child is siting in a patch of clover alone, how can you tell if they are INTP or INFP? If they refuse to play with the other kids, then they are probably Introverted. This is from age 6.

If a child is playing a game, but looses all interest (or fun) once rules about the game are made, then I'd guess they are P.

Yet, it's difficult to say if they are F or T. It depends on what they are thinking, perhaps. I was trying to find 4 leaf clovers for my mom because she got excited when I found them. I guess the "F" is imagining her happiness, and seeing her press them in a book. And I guess the simultaneous Ti aspect is trying to find the best system for finding 4 leaf clovers. What is the correct angle of view? How can you mark where you've search or not?

Thus, even in one elementary school recess, I believe I see two diametrically opposed internal processes operating nearly simultaneously.

Anyway, I apologize for going off on a tangent about myself, but it seems the F and T question is difficult for me to answer as well. How can it even be answered?

I don't think the MBTI is true in some ways.
 

Eric B

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The 8th place function is not necessarily "weakest". Beebe's order is not about strength. Lenore Thomson's order sheds more light on this, where Ti/Fi are actually in third place, and the "right brain alternatives" for each other's types. So in some respects, they are more alike than the inferior or the dom. with the attitude reversed.

This is why INP's will often struggle between T/F. Even on the Nardi test, those functions come out strong.

INTP and INFP are both "Behind the Scenes", which is a very sensitive Interaction Style. For the INTP, this is simply tempered by the "toughminded" T (so they can put on a tough exterior), where for INFP's, it's not; but sensitivity (including acts of consideration for others) is really not a product of the functions. The functions simply determine how much of an emotional investment you have in those things, to the point that you develop a particular perspective around them.
 

lunalum

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I vote atypical INTP.
 

Redbone

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:hi:

Toldja we were a great deal alike. :)

I was raised by ISFJs, married one, and nowadays when I'm with NTPs I find myself being the most SFJ thing there, and when I'm with SFJs, I'm the most NTP.

I was the oldest in my family and felt like I had to take care of everyone. So... responsible, dependable, take commitments seriously, HATE not being able to keep my promises if situations change. And I want badly to fit somewhere, even though I feel like I never do.

But no, I'm not traditional. I'm about the future, and change, and I want to do what works after I model everything in my head. I can act inside the box, and I see a need for order in order to increase efficiency sometimes, but it's just a pretense; I'm not a box person at all, actually. I can coexist with box people for long periods of time, but often become very frustrated by them.

And I said that I was like both of you! :yes:

This where MBTI falls short. I think that sometimes we have develop in ways that can obscure the framework and make it seem like we don't fit the personality type at all.

I think you are INTP with lots of J power.
 

Athenian200

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Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
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The 8th place function is not necessarily "weakest". Beebe's order is not about strength. Lenore Thomson's order sheds more light on this, where Ti/Fi are actually in third place, and the "right brain alternatives" for each other's types. So in some respects, they are more alike than the inferior or the dom. with the attitude reversed.

This is why INP's will often struggle between T/F. Even on the Nardi test, those functions come out strong.

INTP and INFP are both "Behind the Scenes", which is a very sensitive Interaction Style. For the INTP, this is simply tempered by the "toughminded" T (so they can put on a tough exterior), where for INFP's, it's not; but sensitivity (including acts of consideration for others) is really not a product of the functions. The functions simply determine how much of an emotional investment you have in those things, to the point that you develop a particular perspective around them.

I know on that functions test, I score high on both Ti and Fi. Actually if I remember right Fi was a little higher than Ti. Ne and Si were also strong. Te and Ni were average and Se and Fe were low. I think I have better developed Fe than that test indicates though. Some of the Fe questions were such that as a strong introvert, I just could not relate to them.

I can definitely tell that you're a J from them. You really don't seem P at all. My gut impression from them would be... IxTJ? But if you felt awkward, you might have come across as colder than normal.

What stood out as particularly J? I'm also confused now because you indicated INFJ previously. I probably come across as more T on video because I'm not comfortable being all emotionally expressive unless I'm at ease. I was nervous doing the video but hey, my curiosity got the best of me.

Maybe I'm just one of those hard to type people and I should give it a rest for awhile.

There are two things I can conclude:

1. I'm an introvert of some sort.
2. I'm not in the SP temperament.
 

Athenian200

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What stood out as particularly J? I'm also confused now because you indicated INFJ previously. I probably come across as more T on video because I'm not comfortable being all emotionally expressive unless I'm at ease. I was nervous doing the video but hey, my curiosity got the best of me.

Well, I still think that your answers seemed FJ, but your behavior in the video seemed more TJ.

The main things that seemed TJ were... the stiffness and coldness of your behavior, and also how ordered and organized it was. You were very monotone, almost robotic.

The thing is, I've also been accused of being robotic when I'm nervous, so I'm not sure. If you were nervous, that throws things off, because you need to be seen in a relaxed state, not a tense one.

It's also possible that you have some sort of issue that leads to flattened affect, despite actually being a more sensitive person.
 
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