I'm no longer sure I'm so/sp

[Such Irony]

I have so.sp in my signature but I'm no longer so sure that's my stacking.

There are things I do relate to about being a social variant, as I've highlighted in this thread: Introverted Social Variant Types

I take more notice of things like social standing and hierarchy. I don't necessarily agree with all of it and I do think much of the time we'd be better off without all that shit but I do notice things like power structures among people. For instance, I find it easy and instinctive to identify the most powerful person in a room.

I think in some ways I'm more group oriented than the average introvert. I'm not one to just blindly conform but I do like feeling like I belong in groups- especially in groups that share common interests in values. I enjoy being in such groups.

For better or worse I tend to compare myself to the public at large a lot. I think alot about how I'm coming across to others and care what others think of me, even those I barely know and unlikely to ever meet again. I think this is the downside of being social first. It makes me rather self-conscious in public at times.

It's important for me to know that I'm serving some useful role in society. I want to make a lasting contribution that will continue to carry on long after I've died.

Given the choice I prefer to have a large number of acquaintances rather than a few close friends. I tend to put on a friendly, upbeat demeanor when meeting new people for the first time yet at the same time I'm guarded. I'm careful not to reveal too much personal about myself too soon. (I'm also SX last)

I think compared to other enneagram 5's, I'm more extraverted than most of them. Yet, like most fives, I definitely need a sufficient amount of quiet "me" time to feel whole. ​

Just some additional things I want to add since I've made that post. Maybe it's because I'm a 5 and an introvert, but there are things typically attributed to so/sp that I just don't relate to:

I don't have a natural awareness of social conventions. I've had to learn as I've gotten older to pay attention to them more. In my childhood and teenage years, I made a whole lot of social faux pas.

I question most social conventions in our society rather than just blindly follow them.

so/sp is often considered a social climber. I don't relate to that. I don't care about being in the top social class or climbing the corporate ladder although I do want to be perceived as successful.


I've wondered if maybe another stacking is a better fit. I've seen myself as SX last largely because I've never felt that I needed to be in a relationship to feel fulfilled. I'm also afraid of too much intensity in relationships.- especially when it's too soon and I'm not ready to go there yet. Yet I really would like to find someone I could really be intimate with. I long to find someone I can truly have a deep conversation with and share my secrets and all my odd quirks. I guess what I fear is that the other person will be repelled by that so I hold parts of myself back so that I won't be rejected by the other person. So maybe I'm not SX last.

Regarding SP, I've always been a play it safe sort of person. I'm very careful about money. I don't take physical risks if I can help it. I like living a healthy lifestyle- eating right, exercising, no smoking or drinking. Yet, I'm not overly anal about it either. Sometimes I do let things slide, especially when I get busy or preoccupied with other things. I am highly sensitive to physical discomfort and things like temperature.

So vote in my poll and let me know what stacking you think fits best.

 

[Kasper]

Quite a number of aspects that go with being a 5 also align with sp traits so it's not tough to see yourself as sp withough being one.

so/sx may be where it's at for you.

Social/Sexual

When reasonably healthy, people of this subtype can be very engaging (for a Five). They smile a lot and are often friendly. Their energy is quite different from the social/self-pres subtype because both the social and sexual energies push outwards, and so partly balance out some of the withdrawing tendencies of the Five. People of this subtype are usually warm and when feeling secure are likely to let people in and even to initiate contact. When they feel insecure however, they can actually go to the other extreme and be very shy. For this reason, people of this subtype could easily be mistyped; those Fives who withdraw from social contact because of feelings of insecurity, might not seem like social subtypes at all. It might not be obvious that they actually very much desire contact. For people of this subtype, the social instinct actually works as a release value for the sexual component. When relaxed and comfortable with others, the sexual instinct can easily be seen.

People of this subtype are very aware of how they “fit in,” and also experience the sexual drive of wanting to connect with intimates. Like other social/sexual subtypes, they have the tendency to cultivate many relationships. They want to be liked by everyone, but being Fives they also tend to hold a part of themselves back for fear of rejection or of being overwhelmed by the demands of the relationship. This subtype of Five is more likely to fear rejection than the other subtypes of Five. Because both of the dominant instincts are focused on people, any failure in the realm of interpersonal relationships triggers a fear that there is no safety in the world.

link

 

[Such Irony]

Quite a number of aspects that go with being a 5 also align with sp traits so it's not tough to see yourself as sp withough being one.

so/sx may be where it's at for you.

I've been thinking alot about so/sx lately. Almost everything in that description fits like a glove. Except that then I'd be sp last and I think I'm too concerned about sp matters for it to be in the last position.

I've read all of the stacking descriptions for fives and I see I bits of myself in all of them. It's hard to pick the one I identify with the most. Pretty much anyone is up for grabs except sx/so/sp.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

i've been having this same problem with the variants. SP is nearly synonymous with introversion and easily confused. same as SX with enneagram 4. i assume SO is in the cards for me, but i can't decide what else. for a long time i thought i was sx/sp, and now, so/sp. but i may not even be sp at all.

it's confusing stuff.

i personally can't say ive gathered enough information on you to make a decision on that. sorry.

 

[Elfboy]

wow, you are like the most balanced INTP I've ever seen (I guess not all INTPs are like Mark Zuckerburg lol)
a few observations
1) SP correlates with I, N, T and 5, so being all these you could seem like you're SP whether you are or not
2) needing to fit in and belong? Teritary Si and Inferior Fe perhaps?
3) your high sensitivity to temperature and discomfort seem very SP to me.
4) not wanting to get intimate in a relationship too soon is a function of being both introverted and thinking, no matter which stacking you are (in fact, sexual people are often slower to form close relationships because they take them more seriously). it's not that you're not an intimate person, it just takes you a while to filter people and sort things out.

 

[Such Irony]

Here is some informatin on the 5w6 stackings and how I fit and don't fit the descriptions:

Problem is, I see myself in several of these. Overall, I think the three I relate to most are so/sp, sp/sx, and sx/sp. Actually, I think I relate to sp/sx of all of these, which is completely different from my supposed so/sp stacking. Thoughts?

5w6 so/sp "The Scientist" contributed by jasethe most hyper intellectual of all types, they value pure rational thought above all else. The most theoretical of Fives, not as hands-on experimental as the tinkering sp/soc 5w6, they seek to advance theory over technology. This may be the most recognized "face" associated with type Five, as seen in movies such as "A Beautiful Mind."

I’m intellectual to be sure but am I hyper intellectual? I know that I constantly analyze everything and would like a nice rational explanation for just about everything I encounter. I value rational thought very highly but do I value it above all else? I value passion more, probably. If you’re not passionate about anything in life, what good is it? I am very theoretical and not particularly hands-on experimental. Much of the time, I’d rather be thinking than doing. In science classes, I was the one that grasped the theory very quickly but when doing lab experiments, I found them tedious. Plus I was rather clumsy in the lab but still did well on lab reports because I knew what was supposed to happen in theory.



5w6 sp/sx contributed by jaseis the most private of Fives, not as emotionally detached but more socially oblivious. They would likely find their niche within a stable, low maintenance relationship, in a safe environment where they're insulated from the demands of others. They have an endearing quality uncommon to other Fives, so I see this type as more heavily Six winged.

Almost everything in this paragraph fits me extremely well. The only doubt I have is that I don’t think I’m the most private of fives. I am very private overall but I will share things when I feel comfortable. I’ve been called endearing before and I definitely need relationships where I’m insulated from the demands of others. Overall, this paragraph fits somewhat better than the so/sp one. I don't see myself as heavily six winged. My wings are quite balanced with 6 edging out over 4 barely.


5w6 sp/so "The Engineer". contributed by jaseProbably the furthest removed of all types from their own emotional life. The most practical minded and hardest working of Fives, prefer to work with complex physical systems over mere theory. In some ways this might be the purest version of Five.

I wouldn’t say I’m far removed from my own emotional life. I am well aware of my emotions, although I may not appear emotional to others because I try to keep my emotional expression under control. I am very hard working but I tend towards the theoretical more than the practical. So overall, this one doesn’t fit me as well as the previous two descriptions.


5w6 so/sx "The Goofball" contributed by jasethink of the main characters from "Revenge of the Nerds", a bunch of highly social, highly sexualized, irresponsible self pres lasters goofing off, at least that's how I remember it. This is probably the most Sevenish and outwardly humorous kind of Five, they value being smart but also want to be cool. I imagine several classic comedic performers were soc/sx 5w6.

When comfortable I can appear quite sevenish and humorous. I like to gently joke around with other people. I value being smart and I guess I kind of want to be cool but I value authenticity more than mere coolness. If I’m cool, that’s a big bonus but I don’t put an extensive amount of effort into making myself look cool. I can be sociable when comfortable and I establish common ground with others but I wouldn’t consider myself highly social. I’m definitely not highly sexualized or irresponsible.



5w6 sx/soc - "The Mad Theorist." contributed by JaseThe most mentally intense of all types, a speculative imagination teams up with a visionary intellect to produce an eccentric style that cannot stop theorizing on the frontiers of science, envisioning alternate realities, or predicting the future. Fascinated by the paranormal, the unexplained, the six wing adds a sense of conspiratorial intrigue. They possess abundant nervous energy and are anxious to discharge their thoughts onto others, though the forcefulness of their ideas and sometimes frenzied delivery may overwhem their audience.

I’m mentally intense to be sure but I don’t feel as eccentric or as visionary as this description. Although I do think about alternate realities and the future is not the main thing occupied by my imagination. More likely, I’m thinking about my own life and where I’ve been and where I’m going. I’m not particularly interested in the paranormal or conspiracy theories. I’m more interested in things that have a scientific basis. It’s true I possess a bunch of nervous energy and I have a strong need to express my ideas to others but I’m careful not to do it in an overly forceful manner. My delivery comes across as more calm. If I overwhelm my audience, its more likely due to the complexity or overabundance of ideas, not in the method of delivery.


5w6 sx/sp - "From Another Planet." contributed by JaseLess attracted to mundane science, more likely to be captivated by the unusual and complex universes that populate cutting edge sci-fi. Slow to trust but driven to engage with others, may offer hints about their secret interests to test a person's receptiveness. They share their private ideas and knowledge as a way to get closer. This tactic may unintentionally win them many friends, but leave them just as removed from any romantic prospects. Not as nerdish though a bit on the odd side, others may find them strangely appealing. Overall, the most atypical 5w6, can be mistaken for 5w4.

I’m kind of bored with mundane science too. I like the more unusual and cutting edge aspects of it. I enjoy science fiction and the complex worlds created in the stories. The part about being slow to trust but driven to engage with others is definitely true of me. For me, if I can comfortably share my secret interests and eccentricities and not be negatively judged, then I know I’ve established true closeness. But I rarely offer hints about my interests as a means of testing receptiveness. It’s more the reverse. I have to know that the other person is highly likely to be receptive before sharing my interests. As far as nerdishness goes, I wouldn’t say I appear overly nerdy to others. I may be somewhat on the odd side. I’ve had people tell me I was odd, but overall I don’t think I give off the impression of being overly odd but who knows? I feel that I have a lot of 5w4 qualities but overall I’m pretty sure 5w6 is a better fit. I don’t think I’ve been mistaken for a 5w4. With the exception of one person, no one has challenged my 6 wing.


See how confusing this all is????

 

[Sunny Ghost]

^agreed. confusing, they are.

 

[sleuthiness]

As with most concepts discussed on this board, I wouldn't take anything I've read all that literally, as it's still a growing and burgeoning science.

Think about who you associate with, what their stackings likely are, then add to or rewrite what you've read.

 

[Such Irony]

Think about who you associate with, what their stackings likely are, then add to or rewrite what you've read.

I seem to associate most with sp/so/sx and so/sx/sp

I sometimes have a harder time with SX first- I get overwhelmed by their intensity, I think. So would that be points against me being SX first?

 

[sleuthiness]

Overwhelmed how? Withdrawing outright, simply diminishing involvement while remaining, etc.?

As outlined in brainheart's thread, I've found sx/sp energy to be complimentary rather than overwhelming or overbearing.

Maybe you've a sp/so stacking?

 

[Such Irony]

I'm reviving this thread since more people may have an opinion now that I've posted more.

 

[sleuthiness]

Since joining, you've struck me as rather melancholy for an intp 5. How certain are you of your etype? e65? Settle on a dominant instinct yet? I'm thinking sp/so e65 intp.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

From Helen Palmer's book:

The Subtypes
Subtypes describe the concerns wich come from a need to preserve the private life from external influences.

Confidence in the one-to-one relationship
5s live the personal commitment in a dual relationship toward sharing of confidence. The sexual subtype live even more that confidence by intense non verbals links than toward more commons relational modes. They feel deeply the intensity of a secret link. "Sexuality was the most free aspect of my life. We don't need to talk, nobody else need to know, there's is an immediate intimacy, and my bedroom was the only one place where my mother could'nt enter and invade me."

Totems in the social arena
5s need to be in accordance with those who represent the core of the tribe, to give their opinion and receive a comment. Totems can extend to the serch of knowledge includes in fundamentals symbols, like scientific formula or esoteric paradigm. "I teach mathematics in an engeener school from years and I would have give up if there was not my authentic interest, the publication of a scholary journal. We have an world circle of reader whose number is less than one century, all esoteric mathematicians. The most part have never met each other, but I'm personally attached to them because of our common passion.

Castle in self-preservation
5s see their home as refuge wich protect them from an invading world. They are concerned with the control of their personal private space "an view uterus". "I can't withdrawn in myself if there's a friend in the room. I'am so concious about what he's doing that, even if he's just quietly sat reading a book, I feel that he make as noise as an orchestra playing polka. My only one hope for concentration is to chase him or to get out myself to go in a café where nobody know me, and where I won't be disturbed.

Does it help?

 

[The_World_As_Will]

I've been thinking alot about so/sx lately. Almost everything in that description fits like a glove. Except that then I'd be sp last and I think I'm too concerned about sp matters for it to be in the last position.

I've read all of the stacking descriptions for fives and I see I bits of myself in all of them. It's hard to pick the one I identify with the most. Pretty much anyone is up for grabs except sx/so/sp.

Hmm perhaps you are an so/sx?, As for SP, perhaps you are going through what I call a retreat to SP last, as an Sx/so, I often notice that under stress I retreat to these worries about money etc, it almost feels as if there is a heaviness of the heart, like i'm trapped and there is this ceiling that I cannot get through. It's a very boxed-in anxiety thing, and it's directly rooted to SP-last In my opinion, Also I've notice that under stress during this SP retreat experience, I usually have these fantasies of absolutely giving up everything, moving to the other side of the world and dropping it ALL, to be free of this 'burden' yes monetary concern etc are burdens, burdens on experience of fully living life. But I can only give my experience as an sx/so, I've noticed a similar pattern with my girlfriend and best friend (who are both so/sx 4w3 INFPs), so I think how you react under stress would help indicate your variant.

 

[Such Irony]

From Helen Palmer's book:

The Subtypes
Subtypes describe the concerns wich come from a need to preserve the private life from external influences.

Confidence in the one-to-one relationship
5s live the personal commitment in a dual relationship toward sharing of confidence. The sexual subtype live even more that confidence by intense non verbals links than toward more commons relational modes. They feel deeply the intensity of a secret link. "Sexuality was the most free aspect of my life. We don't need to talk, nobody else need to know, there's is an immediate intimacy, and my bedroom was the only one place where my mother could'nt enter and invade me."

Totems in the social arena
5s need to be in accordance with those who represent the core of the tribe, to give their opinion and receive a comment. Totems can extend to the serch of knowledge includes in fundamentals symbols, like scientific formula or esoteric paradigm. "I teach mathematics in an engeener school from years and I would have give up if there was not my authentic interest, the publication of a scholary journal. We have an world circle of reader whose number is less than one century, all esoteric mathematicians. The most part have never met each other, but I'm personally attached to them because of our common passion.

Castle in self-preservation
5s see their home as refuge wich protect them from an invading world. They are concerned with the control of their personal private space "an view uterus". "I can't withdrawn in myself if there's a friend in the room. I'am so concious about what he's doing that, even if he's just quietly sat reading a book, I feel that he make as noise as an orchestra playing polka. My only one hope for concentration is to chase him or to get out myself to go in a café where nobody know me, and where I won't be disturbed.

Does it help?

Somewhat. Not a whole lot to go on there but I can eliminate SX. So either sp/so/sx or so/sp/sx.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Self-pres/Social
In the average health range, this instinctual stacking is warm, friendly, and loyal. They need their down time and have no problem spending time alone. They actually value it very much. They feel an energy drain from people’s demands on them. This instinctual stacking is what is described in most Enneagram books. The most notable and potentially frustrating thing about people of this type is the difficulty involved in getting really close to them. While they can usually handle themselves socially, they always hold back when it comes to intensity or intimacy in a relationship which can frustrate a sexual variant type. Others are aware that there is more going on beneath the surface, but it can’t really be accessed. These Fives are masters at minimizing their needs. Even though they shy away from intense personal relationships they often have a lot of intuition about others. Their detached level of personal involvement somehow brings objectivity to their insights. They can be the most practical of the instinctual stackings.

Their issues usually revolve around demands made on their time. This can become problematic in personal relationships. This subtype has an ideal vision of what a close or romantic relationship should be, but given their concerns for protecting their space and time and lacking the instinctual drive of a strong sexual instinct, energy just doesn’t flow in that direction. Because this subtype is good at minimizing their needs they can get along fine with few relationships or without a romantic partner. With the social instinct second in the stacking, they generally do find friends or colleagues and they may even be married, but the need to maintain their own time to pursue their interests is always a point of contention

Social/Self-pres
One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn’t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of “people watcher,” but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct’s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.


Here are a few examples:

[youtube=UxTqEJgdNXU]Daria 5w4 Sp/So[/youtube]
[youtube=l-1Z2wi2uSA]Albert Einstein 5w4 So/Sp[/youtube]

[youtube=hkvBET7A2s0]Vladimir Pountine 5w6 Sp/So[/youtube]
[youtube=mmd93lWbOsw]Bill Gates 5w6 Sp/So[/youtube]
[youtube=1CwUuU6C4pk]Isaac Asimov 5w6 So/Sp[/youtube]

 

[Such Irony]

Still not sure. The SP/SO and SO/SP descriptions I relate to equally well. I've discussed this over on an enneagram forum and there the consensus seems to be SO/SP.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Seems correct to me. You also identify more with 5w6 than 5w4 is'nt it?

 

[Such Irony]

Seems correct to me. You also identify more with 5w6 than 5w4 is'nt it?

It's a close call, really. I posted a 5w6 vs. 5w4 thread on another forum. The majority seemed to think 5w6 with a couple voting for balanced wings. Thing is though, I'm not longer totally sure I'm a type 5. If I'm not a 5, I'm probably a 6 with a strong 5 wing or a type 9 with a 5 in my trifix.

 

[onemoretime]

When you wake up in the morning, what do you hope beyond hope happens, even if you don't consciously admit it? That's where you find your instinctual variant.